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Troy

What do you think of the ongoing battle between Pionner1 and Kalexander2

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@Pioneer1 and @Kalexander2 has been going at it pretty regularly for a few months now.  I was just wondering what others (lurkers please chime in) thought about it. Is it entertaining, destructive, boring, an shame, funny, sad, or something else? I'm really very curious to read what others think. 

 

Battles like this are not uncommon indeed when there were more participants they were more frequent, though not as usually as protracted. The last ongoing battle was between Cynique and another poster.  I maintained a hands off approach until the other poster wrote something that was really beyond the pale (at least in my book), so I deleted the offending post.  The poster reacted by deleted all of her posts and leaving the forum the virtual equivalent of taking her marbles and leaving the playground 

 

On some level I believe that posters goal was to create utter havok.  She left when it became obvious that I would allow her to go completely off the rails.

 

Personally, I don't really care that much as long as people don't get too crazy and it does not get serious.  Whether something has gotten serious is hard for me to tell.  I can't tell what is said in jest and what is serious -- simply because I can't follow every conversation.  Truth is, I don't have the time (nor inclination) to be a proper administrator.  This is part of the reason for my largely hands off attitude.

 

The other concern I have is that the protracted bickering tends to turn people off who are new to the forums -- it is intimidating to many.  Besides the fact that the constant back and forth just clutters that board obscuring what might otherwise be interesting conversations. 

 

What do you think?

 

Also if the name calling starts (or indirect insults) on this conversation I'll delete the posts.  I'm only interested in serious comments. 

 

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@Troy  You're right in every respect...

 

{content deleted by administrator}

 

So, for what it's worth I prefer to back down at this point.   And thank you for letting us be adults!   

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16 minutes ago, Troy said:

Besides the fact that the constant back and forth just clutters that board obscuring what might otherwise be interesting conversations. 

 

@TroyThis ^   ... I have a hard time following the topic when it's cluttered with name-calling/bickering.  It's too bad there's not a vote-down collapse feature  - where only those who are involved in the bickering can see their comments.   

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i could appreciate the feud if the barbs were witty and clever, but they were just silly and irrelevant. i stopped reading their posts because they became boring.  😴

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6 minutes ago, Cynique said:

i could appreciate the feud if the barbs were witty and clever, but they were just silly and irrelevant. i stopped reading their posts because they became boring.

 

WRONG!  We were childish and stupid!!!

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K2 I've deleted a portion of your comment for the reason previously discussed. Again the rule applies only to this to this conversation.

 

Cynique makes a good point if the barbs witty and clever AND written in jest it is all good -- indeed desirable.  And the fact she stopped reading the posts was what I was afraid of happening.  If she is not reading them why would someone, who is new, read them?

 

@Chevdove, waded through the morass and made some excellent contributions only to inquire why did the conversation go south?  Her question was part of the motivation for this discussion

 

Mel, K2 as far as a vote down button.  I'm sure that would not have any effect.  Indeed Pioneer does not even use the like feature.  Generally, if I disagree with something I express that disagreement with words.  But I'll check to see if the software has a dislike or down vote options.

 

You can currently block a posters comments, allowing you to completely ignore another poster.  That approach is pretty heavy handed, but it has been used by some. 

 

Well, I look forward to more comments.

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Lol...damn, has it been MONTHS???
 

To be honest I'm tired of having to check in every night to see what new garbage has been said to or about me.
But as far as I'm concerned, the issue is STRAIGHT FORWARD.

The insults and threats can be overlooked, but what CAN NOT be overlooked are the insults of my Mother and now Father.
I didn't talk about his and he had no business talking about mine.
I have my own moral code, and respect for my righteous ancestors is part of mine.

 

People getting tired and restless of our conflict and complaining about it won't solve this problem.

Troy banning me or him or both of us will not solve this problem.

We can try to ignore eachother, but that STILL won't solve the problem.

The ONLY solution to this problem is for him to apologize for insulting my MOTHER AND FATHER IN ALL OF THE THREADS that he insulted them in!

 

https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/5152-support-pro-choice-democratic-jewish-women/

https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/5248-why-do-people-try-to-hide-who-they-really-are-advancing-self-discrepancy-theory/
 

https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/5190-royal-wedding-are-you-watching/?page=2


https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/5228-is-america-the-beastrevelations-13/?page=4


https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/5221-a-great-career-choice-for-black-folk-with-criminal-records-why-not-a-black-supremacy-emergence-from-within-white-supremacy/?page=1

 

https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/5087-poverty-is-a-state-of-mindben-carson/?page=2

 

 

 


Troy

Indeed Pioneer does not even use the like feature.


I'm sure just about everyone who posts here on a regular basis has noticed this and I wondered when someone was going to finally ask me why I don't, lol.

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23 hours ago, Troy said:

On some level I believe that posters goal was to create utter havok.  She left when it became obvious that I would allow her to go completely off the rails.

 

Yes, this is the real point here, even if the posters are not aiming to create havok, after awhile, I feel that it will undercut the wider purpose of a discussion board designed to uplift 'the Black Voice', and a positive outcome for Black people in general. And also, after awhile too, it may become obvious that some one may feel personally attacked, and when this seems to be the issue, I think a moderator, a peacemaker, may help bring the discussion back into focus. Unfortunately, we as human do show this 'going off the rail' behavior, and find it difficult to find a common ground. Sometimes, It's not easy to agree to disagree without personally attacking someone. 

 

But if someone is constantly undermining Black people of African descent, and there is a pattern, well, that is wrong. 

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@Chevdove, often merely disagreeing with something is seen as a personal attack.  There are people I can't even have a conversation with because if I disagree with them they take it personally -- and that is in the real world where I'm not nearly as direct as I am here.

 

The other problem is everyone is different.  Take Pioneer's demand for an apology for example.  He feels K2 crossed a line and now he deserves an apology  But he can't see that the line he created is purely arbitrary, of his own making, and no one else is bound to accept it. That does not mean his line is wrong or right, but I'm not going to ban people crossing every arbitrary line that someone has crossed.

 

K2 could simply invoke some arbitrary line that Pioneer crossed and demand an apology too.  This is a lose-lose scenario

 

@Pioneer1 banning you both would obviously bring an end to the bickering.  But again, I would not do that because you are both capable of making meaningful contributions to the forum and I don't ban people for getting into arguments -- these things happen. 

 

It is just this argument has gone on for sometime and I was curious what you other people really thought about it.

 

{Donning my hotep hat} It does pain me to see two Black Kings tearing each other down. 

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The question becomes , "what is the point?" What do you, if it is  negative to some of the active posters but drives traffic?

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@Delano, if I was solely interested in driving traffic (read: maximizing revenue), this would be a completely different website.

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Troy the other question is,"whats the point?. Why do people post. Or what point do people want to make with their posts. 

My post is existential at it's core. Because people rarely change their mind in confrontations. 

I think the argument and how it was ignored or feed speaks volumes. 

@Troy so did the argument serve your interests? If not what is next? What do you want to come from this. You are the moderator and owner 

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6 hours ago, Troy said:

if I was solely interested in driving traffic (read: maximizing revenue), this would be a completely different website.

 

Troy, the non-commercial aspect of AALBC.com is the first thing I've noticed and fallen in love with, like immediately.  I would have gladly paid if there was a subscription fee because it is substantial, to me, to be able to converse with you, Cynique, and Mel, your ideas, and straightforward commentary speaks directly to my interests.

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19 hours ago, Troy said:

The other problem is everyone is different.  Take Pioneer's demand for an apology for example.  He feels K2 crossed a line and now he deserves an apology  But he can't see that the line he created is purely arbitrary, of his own making, and no one else is bound to accept it. That does not mean his line is wrong or right, but I'm not going to ban people crossing every arbitrary line that someone has crossed.

 

K2 could simply invoke some arbitrary line that Pioneer crossed and demand an apology too.  This is a lose-lose scenario

 

That’s an accurate observation, brother Troy, and describes the reason(s) I refuse to apologize.  I am not above reproach, however, and it costs me nothing to accommodate P1’s demand if for nothing more than to make him good about himself.  If it is something he needs to feel whole or victorious.

 

Truth is, I have no valid complaint of a ‘line’ P1 crossed to justify such insults, though I do harbor some dislikes (maybe even disliking him personally) all are arbitrary in nature and none substantial including his refusal to be forthcoming of his true identity.  I was immature and aimed to be deliberately vicious; surmising him vulnerable was easy to size him up based on his online demeanor, {two words deleted by administrator}

 

The same is true with brother Delano, he let on early of his sensitivity of comments as to his level of academic exposure, and I went for that jugular.  That does not make a winner  nor a loser, just determined and forceful.

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@Kalexander2, Please no name calling in this conversation.  I deleted a couple of words above.

 

To be clear, this website is a commercial, for profit, entity.  But as previously stated money, unlike a corporate site, it not the primary goal.  Most of the ads are for other books, but you'll also notice some google ads here as well.

 

Speaking of subscriptions, you may subscribe here🙂

 

K2 I appreciate the explanation of your engagement with Del and Pioneer it seems forthright.  No one is above reproach, and you are not the first poster to be immature or vicious; I just prefer it none of us made it a habit.  

 

I think @Cynique has been the target of the most vicious and mean spirited things anyone has ever said on these forums.  To her credit she never seemed to take things seriously or internalize them. In fact, she even advocated for her attackers!

 

I've been attacked viciously as well. There is at least one racist troll I secretly enjoy because they are just funny.  I've even saved some of them anti-Troy racist memes.  I mean they really put time and effort into insulting me.  I've had to delete accounts, ban ip address, and more to keep them at bay.  

 

You can't start crying everytime some insults you on the web.  I know kids are killing themselves over Facebook posts and I find this profoundly sad...

 

@Delano, above all I want people to; (1) express themselves freely. Perhaps more freely than they can in real life, where you don't have the opportunity to think about what you are saying or to be influenced by visual cues or the reaction of the person you are talking to. (2) I'd also hope that people do learn something. 

 

I know I have, I for example have learned a lot more about climate change and race, just during the course of debating or teaching here.  I've also changed my position on a number of things based upon things said here -- often in ways that I did not anticipate.  Most recently, for example, I used to be a fan of Dr. Umar Johnson, until I watched more of his videos (thanks to Pioneer) and realized that I don't support much of what he exposes...

 

As you said Del, I'm the moderator and the owner, but you'll also notice outside of this conversation I have not deleted a single post in Pioneer's and K2's insulting each other.  Again I want people to freely express themselves, but the ongoing bickering tended to obscure interesting conversations which prevented people from learning from those conversations.

 

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This topic is a brilliant display of subjectivity and the state of Black America.

 

Various posters  have commented on what is wrong or needs fixing in the Black community. Maybe we  have to learn to respect each other , how to critque an argument without, insulting the perlson, or really listen  and try to understand the perspective and the person.

 

I have been guilty of every one of those flaws. Which resulting in my apologising to both Mel and Troy. I also realise my  elitist attiutude about thinking, which  resulted  in my recognising Pioneer's modus operandi. 

 

There is a difference between perception and the reality of a person or situation. So my comments are more  societal than individual. Also because making comments to any individual is pointless until they are open. Or willing to see another perspective. 

 

We are  both watching and engaging in the psychopathology of Black People. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Delano said:

This topic is a brilliant display of subjectivity and the state of Black America.

 

Various posters  have commented on what is wrong or needs fixing in the Black community. Maybe we  have to learn to respect each other , how to critque an argument without, insulting the perlson, or really listen  and try to understand the perspective and the person.

 

I have been guilty of every one of those flaws. Which resulting in my apologising to both Mel and Troy. I also realise my  elitist attiutude about thinking, which  resulted  in my recognising Pioneer's modus operandi. 

 

There is a difference between perception and the reality of a person or situation. So my comments are more  societal than individual. Also because making comments to any individual is pointless until they are open. Or willing to see another perspective. 

 

We are te both watching and engaging in the psychopathology of Black People. 

 

OBSERVATION:  Absolutely excellent!

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18 hours ago, Kalexander2 said:

The same is true with brother Delano, he let on early of his sensitivity of comments as to his level of academic exposure, and I went for that jugular.  That does not make a winner  nor a loser, just determined and forceful.

Can you explain what you mean by my sensitivity. What was your objective in going for the jugular? Also who are you referring to in the last sentence. Who are the winner and losers and who is determined and forceful. 

@Kalexander2

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19 hours ago, Kalexander2 said:

 

The same is true with brother Delano, he let on early of his sensitivity of comments as to his level of academic exposure, and I went for that jugular.

 

Sure, I assumed you attacked me, that you were offended when I suggested you expand your academic horizons, I saw immediately you were sensitive about that,  this was exacerbated from a similar post before that happened.  'Jugular,' meaning that's a soft -point, your button.  which  I attempted to clarify many times shortly after.  But you weren't hearing it.  

 

19 hours ago, Kalexander2 said:

That does not make a winner  nor a loser, just determined and forceful.

 

This was directed at me, insinuating my erroneous assumption.  Not sure you understand, or if I explained this correctly.

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For the record at this point this discussion, I discovered my tendency to do this about 10-years ago; in a face-to-face conversation with a white elderly guy; he kept on about Blacks being lazy on welfare, drug dealers and addicts, and flirting with white women.  It didn't take me long to convince him that white guys suffer from an inferiority complex due to lack of self-worth, that they doubted themselves and uncertain about own manhood and feel they don't measure up to Black men.  Also, I walked away with $500 dollars of his money.  No going into that part.  

 

You see, brother, inferiority complex is often a subconscious weakness, and is thought to drive afflicted individuals to overcompensate, resulting either in spectacular achievement or extremely asocial behavior, they're easily insulted or offended.   Those of us who attempt to weaponize this human condition is often guilty of misinterpreting or, disagreeing by using what is perceived to be harsh realities of life. 

21 minutes ago, Delano said:

Why do you feel the need to push people's buttons. And how did i attack you. 

 

As  I said, I assumed you attacked me by insisting I was out-of-line by my commentary.   Let's not forget that I'm only human too, capable of erroneous fallacies.

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FALSE isn't the word, you insisted I was out-of-line or didn't have right to question your level of education.  That's what you're missing. I took as an attack.

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I will go back an reread the post. I was under the impression that I responded after both Cynique and Troy stated i had an advanced degree. You doubted I had a degree and then felt i didn't have the right to question your assumption. Is that a fair assessment or am i missing something else? 

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I questioned your assumption after both Troy and Cynique told you I had an advanced  degree. And you saw that as challenging you. That's pretty clear to me. 

Thanks 

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Yes, I did question whether you actually had an advanced degree even after Troy, Cynique posted that you did.  Then I question whether or not was a 'drug-store' degree.  You know, from some online degree program.   So yes, you are 100% correct.  

 

For further clarification as to why I assumed as I did is because of the lack of clarity in your post's, failure to take the time check grammar and constant use of adverbs, etc.

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On 6/27/2018 at 4:40 PM, Troy said:

but I'm not going to ban people crossing every arbitrary line that someone has crossed.

 

@Troy I initially find it hard to believe that @Pioneer1 took it personal, but after a while of seeing other post, I do believe he did take it as a personal insult. So I understand. My attempt to 'step in cautiously' to be the 'peace makerr', helps sometimes to make things better for others... But since I did make statements, I will also say this; 

 

I felt that for the purpose of the forum, and because it seemed to be ongoing, and going and going, it was a good idea for someone to help the two posters maybe have a truce and to maybe come up with a better approach to converse on topics without attacking each other. I have no idea why they have done this back and forth, and I just read I think, that Kalexander2 did say he may not really care for Pioneer1's input. IMO, that's okay, but for them both to attack each is also not good if they don't stop, LOL. I've been there, done that too. I can get caught up into a conversation, however, deep inside, I know I should stop, leave off, but sometimes find myself in a rat race... I try to defend myself from what I perceive, as an passive aggressive attack against my person and NOT what I say or believe, but me. And, I have a trigger and sometimes in conversation, with certain relatives like my older sister , I find myself all worked up in a defensive mode and can't figure out how I continue to get to that point, only that I keep going into the conversation and get no satisfaction all the while. 

 

I still find it hard to believe that someone today, would take 'YO MAMA' jokes personally, but historically, this kind of conversation did tear down Black people and it is a great method to cause dissention. But, I didn't get that it was a personal insult coming from @Kalexander2 either. No, I don't weigh in on either of the two posters, in my opinion. I think the insults were pretty even between the both of them. I kind of felt like it was just that perhaps, some kind of dissention started back at some point and they may have needed a little nudge to bring the purpose of this forum back into thier focus.  

On 6/28/2018 at 5:25 PM, Delano said:

his topic is a brilliant display of subjectivity and the state of Black America.

 

Various posters  have commented on what is wrong or needs fixing in the Black community. Maybe we  have to learn to respect each other , how to critque an argument without, insulting the perlson, or really listen  and try to understand the perspective and the person.

 

@Delano

Ahhh! This is exactly my feelings, just couldn't word so well! Thank you! 

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7 minutes ago, Chevdove said:

 

I still find it hard to believe that someone today, would take 'YO MAMA' jokes personally, but historically, this kind of conversation did tear down Black people and it is a great method to cause dissention. But, I didn't get that it was a personal insult coming from @Kalexander2 either. No, I don't weigh in on either of the two posters, in my opinion. I think the insults were pretty even between the both of them. I kind of felt like it was just that perhaps, some kind of dissention started back at some point and they may have needed a little nudge to bring the purpose of this forum back into thier focus. 

 

I couldn't agree more, Chevdove, even a sheltered Black who never went to public elementary school have experienced the 'dozens' insult game we stupid adults indulge today.  True, it only goes to show how we Blacks still tear down each other for no logical reason except for attention, or power; is childish by all means.

 

After it became obvious the other party had no intention of moving beyond the petty rhetoric I decided to make the only move reasonable in such a situation.  Stoy conversing to remain focused for the sake of other members here, if not entirely make peace.   Great response, thanks for helping stay focused!!!

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6 minutes ago, Chevdove said:

I am so amazed as your strength, you inner being. 

 

Thanks, your comment(s) make me want to be even stronger; you encourage my 'inner-being.'

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Yall a straight up MESS with this "both sides" business...lol.

You remind me of Donald Trump talking about "both sides" were to blame at that Nazi rally down in Virginia, claiming there were good and bad people on "both sides".
And lines were crossed on "both sides".

And just like Donald Trump failed to recognize that the behavior of the protestors were a REACTION to the ACTION of the Nazis.
Some of you fail to acknowledge that my hostility towards Kalexander is a result of HIS BEHAVIOR that he initiated towards me.


Kalexander has.....

1. Insulted both my Parents
2. Threatened bodily harm
3. Told out right LIES about my identity
(Troy I know you said no insults and I'm not sure if that would be considered an insult but when you asked him if he could back up his allegations he admitted he couldn't so I'd consider it more of a fact than an insult)

If no one considers the above behavior "crossing the line" then please tell me WHAT IS "the line" and how do we know when it's been crossed?

If talking about your parents and children aren't crossing the line during a disagreement over politics.......
Then break out the text book and show men WHAT constitutes crossing the line and what does a person have to say in order that we can agree that the line has been crossed.

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@Pioneer1 When that old poster Sara called Cynique a "nigger bitch," I thought that crossed a line.  You were here during that time -- what did you think?  Remember, this was also in the context of an ongoing, escalating, and pointless conflict. 

 

Kola Boof (before your time I believe) leveled some mighty barbs at Cynique -- nothing compared to what you are complaining about with K2.   But Kola was different than Sara (@Cynique what do you think)

 

Sara provided to be irrational and unreasonable. when I checked her she got mad, deleted all her posts, and left.  I don't view you or @Kalexander2 the same way I viewed that old poster.  You two seem more reasonable -- but like us all, merely human.

 

Pioneer, K2 has already acknowledged that, "We were childish and stupid!!!"  But true to your form, you have a justification and rationalization for the insults you hurled at K2. 

 

It always takes two to argue.  The advice I always give to posters who DM (directly message) me to complain about some other poster (this happens more frequently than you might image) is to ignore the other poster.  Interestingly, this advice is rarely taken and usually the offended poster simply leaves.

 

While the advice is rarely taken I don't think it is bad advice.  But the alternative is to shut down the "offending" person.  Unless they are a straight up troll I'm not sure I've ever removed someone from these forums, and I've been running these forums for almost 20 years.

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Sara and Kola were two different personalities. Kola was a diva with a vulnerable streak; Sara was a devious wanna-be.  Kola's scathing insults were always aimed at me but never at my family, and a lot of times they were tongue-in-cheek.  Sara was vicious, and thought that my age was my Achilles heel. But picking on an "older" person about being old didn't work for Sara because it was an attack on all the "Madeas" so affectionately regarded in the black community. In any case, i have a thick skin.  Neither one of these "cunts" bothered me because i didn't have a lot of respect for their opinions.  🤩  (I am guilty of liking to argue, and i never met a cat fight i didn't want to scratch my way into)

 

The exchanges between Pioneer and Kalexander were just petty tit-for-tat. Nobody believed any of the things Kalexander was saying about Pioneer's family, but Pioneer played right into Kalexander's hands by giving weight to his outlandish attacks.There's absolutely nothing he can do to make Kalexander retract his words, so he should just blow him off and move on.   

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2 hours ago, Cynique said:

Pioneer played right into Kalexander's hands by giving weight to his outlandish attacks.There's absolutely nothing he can do to make Kalexander retract his words, so he should just blow him off and move on.

 

That is true, please excuse me for being human but it was like high doses of epinephrine begging me to go after P1's jugular.  However, as I stated before, it costs me absolutely nothing to apologize for the right incentive; $100 (and pay for the wire transfer: smile!!) or an apology for his insults, him FIRST.  Once again, please excuse my human stubbornness!! 

 

8 hours ago, Troy said:

The advice I always give to posters who DM (directly message) me to complain about some other poster (this happens more frequently than you might image) is to ignore the other poster.  Interestingly, this advice is rarely taken and usually the offended poster simply leaves.

 

 

Advise well-taken, brother Troy, in this case, because there's nothing lost or to be gained from continuing.   Like Cynique, I never shy away from a good fight, especially when my opponent displays signs of soft-skin weakness.    

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11 hours ago, Cynique said:

but Pioneer played right into Kalexander's hands by giving weight to his outlandish attacks.There's absolutely nothing he can do to make Kalexander retract his words, so he should just blow him off and move on. 

 

Exactly.

 

@Cynique, do you also like to debate or argue in the real world?  How has that worked for you?  I notice women like this tend to have more male friends than females ones.  Is this true for you?

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13 hours ago, Kalexander2 said:

I never shy away from a good fight, especially when my opponent displays signs of soft-skin weakness

You're saying you like fighting weak people. 

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On 7/4/2018 at 8:40 AM, Troy said:

ynique, do you also like to debate or argue in the real world?  How has that worked for you?  I notice women like this tend to have more male friends than females ones.  Is this true for you?

Ummm. i don't think so.  All my female friends tended to be like me.  Our tough bitchy facades were almost a litmus test. If a guy could hold his own with us, we'd let down our guards and be nice and sweet. Unfortunately, i think more flunked the test than passed it. We were in the vanguard of ball-bustin' black sistas.  (Something I'm not particularly proud of.)  

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