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Discovering that Elijah Muhammad had a harem of young girls, many of whom he impregnated, was what drove Malcolm to leave the NOI and start his own sect. I personally knew a girl in my hometown who was fathered by Elijah Muhammad and was later adopted by a local minister of the Church of God and Christ, and his wife. Also, according to Malcolm's biography by Alex Haley, Malcolm was a pimp in his days before he went to prison and converted to Islam. Of course, Alex has proved to not always tell the truth in his books. Recently there have been reports that in 2010 Farrakhan became interested in Scientology and began to explore its concepts and encourage followers to study the disciplines of Dianetics in order to become coverts and learn the "auditing" procedures utilized to recruit and monitor others. i also read where Farrakhan has converted to Christianity, accepting Jesus Christ as his savior. I read about the Muslims and Dianetics in Wikipedia, which of course, draws criticism from certain people on this board. But i have always found well researched information there, and since the living people and the heirs of the dead people it profiles have an option to challenge and correct information about themselves or their works, i assume that what i read there is as good a source as any for information. As far as what i believe about black men automatically defending their women, i don't think doing so is a priority of theirs or something they do as a custom. Individual ones may do so in the course of protecting their families, the same way they would do if it came to their car or any property they valued. It's not something i dwell on. i remember a while back when one night my husband and i were awakened by a noise that made him wonder if someone was trying to break in. He immediately got up with the intention to go down stairs and see. i protested, asking him what did he think he could do? He continued out the room, saying he didn't know but would think of something when he got there. While i had my hand on the phone, i think he grabbed an object before he made it down the stairs where it proved to be a false alarm. So i guess "situational ethics" can trigger impulses. 😏

Is it asking too much for women to expect men to have good character and integrity? There's no excuse for accomplished husbands choosing to let their penises supplant their brains especially since no man cherishes an accomplished wife who engages in promiscuous behavior. An extra-marital affair can be forgiven but ongoing perversion and predatory harassment are not cancelled out by public acclaim. Bill Clinton will always be condemned for his shenanigans with Monica Lewinsky, and Donald Trump for his lewd behavior in spite of both having achieved the office of the presidency; and rightfully so. Esteemed married men should be role models worthy of being emulated, not sneaky pussy-mongers. There have to be standards. And it's perfect;y legitimate for a woman to not like a renowned man who was unfaithful to her, something he would likewise resent if she cheated on him. (Anybody who criticizes such a woman is totally lacking in insight.) Unfortunately, the double standard is alive and well as ego-centric men routinely meander through life adhering to the "don't do as i do, do as i say do" code. Elijah Muhammad was an unscrupulous lecher and nothing can erase that blot from the meager contributions he made to the world-at-large. Yes, "doggish" tendencies are in a man's DNA but for a husband to have the discipline and good judgment and moral compass to rise above lust by considering its negative possibilities, is an accomplishment that truly inspires admiration. Of course, people are free to behave anyway they want, but they shouldn't demand to be respected when their indiscretions come to light.

I no longer try to win arguments here or try to change anyone's position. I post a link and later I state my position and I ask questions. I also don't define what your position is or should be. I think our respective positions are clear. I don't have a masculine or feminine perspective. With the exception of Bill Cosby I think about an issue. I also will do a quick search about the issue. I think the Viola Davis thread is a perfect example of my approach. I wasn't any side. And I was able to answer the question that was posed by Mel. Live and learn or not. The comments have already answered this.

@Pioneer1 that was an Interesting video, I've shared it below

Troy If someone could get a DNA sample we could solve the mystery of where they came from in a few minutes. The West has been trying to do that for years. Several problems arise from that, among which are: 1. Contact with them increases the likelihood of speading of disease. 2. Do you realize that if you have enough samples of a person's DNA you can actually affect THEM with what you do to their DNA samples? Perhaps the North Sentinelese instinctively know this which is why they refuse ALL contact with Caucasians. However there is a video of them having friendly contact with some brown Indian/Asian looking fishermen years ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExdEHU02Zk0 Notice how this so-called "uncivilized" tribe of people who supposedly never had contact with anyone else and were isolated for over 50,000 years knew how to BURY a dead body....as opposed to burning it or casting it at sea. Spears and clubs are pretty much no-brainer weapons, but notice how they also knew how to make bows and arrows with poison tips as weapons.

Precisely. I think this is a much more important conversation that arguing over which gender if not being protected and who is not doing the protecting. We all need to be figuring out ways to protect each other, for we are all at risk. Interesting point. No I have not. I guess the U.S. does not think it will be a good look right now. They'll probably go in their secretly and get the body... @Pioneer1, If someone could get a DNA sample we could solve the mystery of where they came from in a few minutes.

Troy They are lucky this is not the 15 century because they would have been annihilated or enslaved. Well, the weapons that Caucasian civilization has TODAY seem to be more sophisticated than the weapons they had 500 years ago. As much as they've tried lately....if they aren't being annighilatd or enslaved today, what makes you think they could have done that to them in the past? From what I've read about their history others actually HAVE tried to kill off and enslave them but their were unsuccessful. Hell, the United States government won't even go over there to retrieve the body of one of it's slain citizens! Have you ever heard of that being the case with any other nation in history? 　 　 Chev Firstly though, I want to say, that I feel sad for that man that was killed. He was so young, only 26 years old. But I can't believe that he was made to believe that he could go to these people like that!!! I can't believe that he would try to bring that form of 'Christianity' to these people. According to what I read, it was illegal for him to go there anyway. I believe he was a colonizer who TRIED to go overthere and "soften up" the people for future exploitation by introducing them to Christianity and getting them to STOP serving and believing in thier native spiritual traditions. Had he been successful and had the island believing in and worshiping this: It wouldn't be long before the forced labor, murder, and physical abuses followed. 　 Mel Remember, it was when you wrote that I shouldn't encourage Pioneer1, because I mentioned there might be merit to his theory the original black people were from India. Troy, like many other people was suprised to learn that these people were Black....jet Black. The way the media portrays them they call them "Sentinelese" as if they were Asian, and they also call it an "Indian Island" which leads people not very knowledgable about the Indian subcontinent to believe they may be a tannish colored people.

Troy you think Black Men protect Black Women. Mel and Cynique don't agree with you. You think I am speaking for the women. Yet both Mel and myself say we are not. I thought it was common knowledge that Elijah Muhammed fathered children with his teenage secretaries. Delano : Who will protect Black Women from the Honourable Elijah Muhammed Troy: I don't know what you mean? Malcolm X: I was told by Elijah Muhammed's son that his father had children with his teenage secretaries. So I left and was threatened. Women were being taken advantage of in the NOI by the founder . It was common knowledge. And when Malcolm X said he was leaving the NOI, he was threatened. So no one in the NOI including Muhammad's son was strong enough to confront him about his sexual activities. I didn't think that needed any explanation. The founder of any organisation having sex with teenagers that he is not married to is a big problem. So in my head women and especially young women are not safe. When their leader is preying not praying. Let me know if any of that is incomprehensible to either @Troy @Pioneer1 or@NubianFellow I am awaiting your responses.

Again you are speaking for both Mel and Cynique. @Mel Hopkins gave us a beautiful anecdote about a Brother who stepped in front of a speeding car to protect her. On an individual level, many Brothers will lay down their lives to protect women. Why you reject this is beyond me. I can only suspect this is not something you would do and you are projecting. On a collective level however I'm inclined to agree. But I don't think Black men are any more protected than Black women. Indeed on a number of levels from incarceration rates, to educational attainment, to life expectancy one could make a strong case that Black men are LESS protected that Black women. The bottom line is that we can all do a better job of protecting each other. There you go speaking for the Mel again -- allow her to retain her agency please 😉 Again, yes, you continually speak for them. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with that, because I think you are trying to be supportive of them. The issue I have is your dismissal of the male perspective, while you are doing it. So says you Del. You are not in the NOI, you do know know the circumstances, you don't know their code of behavior. It is presumptuous of you to arrive at a conclusion based upon so little knowledge. The NOI are their own group and they handle their business the way they -- not you -- see fit. Besides, five minutes ago you were calling Malcolm X a pimp. Do you really expect me to say that the NOI does not protect their women simply because of what you think about the behavior of one man who died over 40 years ago?

Del Let me know if any of that is incomprehensible to either @Troy @Pioneer1 or@NubianFellow I am awaiting your responses. My response: Elijah Muhammad was one of the greatest Black men to have been born in the United States. I don't give a shit IF he banged 10,000 young secretaries and was smiling to himself while he was doing it! ...that's between him-them-and The Supreme Being who is the Ultimate Judge. When no one else gave a damn about helping Black men...HE DID. For over 40 years! I don't agree with everything Elijah Muhammad said or did, but as far as I'm concerned the GOOD he's done for Black America outweighs the bad. That's my man.