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Whether I suggest that or not - (which by the way, I have no way of knowing ) why is the question relevant to my statement of being haunted by black men not being able to provide protection then or now? Further, It's not a matter of "buy in" of Delano's observation that collectively black men appear not to have respect for black women. Lack of respect appears in the language we use (notice how Delano called both you and NubianFellow "Girls"), our institutions including church, schools, banking and finance etc, and socially. For example, how it's the norm to blame black women for a black man's shortcomings or failure. I'm always amazed how many black men blame feminism for them not being in the home. Even the fact that your question took away my agency by asking me about Delano's perception - instead of simply asking me "do I believe black men respect black women". Something as "innocent" as framing a question to a woman based on what a man thinks is disrespectful. But it doesn't even faze me anymore. I notice it and continue to move on. The challenge in this whole dynamic - isn't about what anyone believes anymore; it's about action. Black women who are about anything -are no longer waiting around for that protection or respect - that may or may not come. They are just moving on, building movements and forming sanctuaries.

Actually it's not. The electorate absolutely knows why they are voting -The ignorance lies in those who believe they know why people vote they way they do...and still don't take the time to find out otherwise. I used to be like that and then I actually started listening to others - and their reasons became loud and clear. By the way those reasons are as diverse as the electorate.

So you have defended Black Women that were being attacked by Black Men. We are in serous trouble.

Could be. Both you, @Delano and @Cynique clarified there’s a difference between “support” and “defense”... It’s hard not to agree. When you mentioned Troy’s belief, that is shared by quite a few black men (putting racism before feminism), I couldn’t think of any time in history when black men haven’t suggested “there’s a time and place for black women... (whatever black women conjured up for the best for society) — by the way, the Ethiopian PM made put women in half the cabinet positions - and put in place a woman president... because he believes women are best for the country... there’s that but its not quite the same as defending women. He put women in position to defend the country. They were feminist? Rallied for equal rights for black women? Black women march against the state to save the lives of black men and boys they don’t know. That’s the difference.

Can’t say. According to Iceberg Slim, the world is divided into hustlers and suckers .

@Troy @NubianFellowCome on, you can't by any stretch of the imagination, use the 3 regular male posters on this forum as a barometer of how black men treat black women! Once again, there's a fine line between respecting black women and defending them! What is currently disappointing black female onlookers is the timidity of the black male peers of female journalist and congresswomen who are being bullied and insulted by Donald Trump! Instead of stepping up, these black pros look to white men as their role models and just leave these women to fend for themselves in the public arena. This is, what it is. BTW, the conflict between black men and women dates back long before social media came on the scene. The media has nothing to do with why, in the present, there are more single black women than married ones. The ongoing clash that pits brothas and sistas against each other is all about the unfufilled expectations they have of each other and is in part a residue of slavery. Sadly, single young black women of today don't really look upon black guys as their heroes. @Mel Hopkins I didn't see your post before i posted mine. But i co-sign to everything you said.

These two groups have different interests ... So politically you have to separate them. As a homeowner raising a family and putting my children in the best public schools; my needs will look a lot different than someone who has no property, pays no taxes and literally is faced with a law-and-order tax on a daily. So when it comes to policy making - government barely serves the interests of poor people... AND again the majority of poor people aren't BLACK people. But I digress. That's not the point you communicated. YOU mentioned black people fawning over democrats such as Bill Clinton as if they didn't know what they were doing. Here's why - All those banking bills and legislation, drug trafficking, and gunrunning is well documented to come from republican administrations... Every time a democrat gets into office they have to clean up all the corporatist activity from so-called republicans. Further of course a democrat such as President Obama would hire from wall street -He was elected right on the heels of the collapse. It would have been stupid not too. If you are trying to get a handle on how google operates and how to get ahead of their thought process - would you hire someone from netscape search engine? C'mon now. Anyway, If you were on wall street then you have a myopic view of policy and deal making - and it was people like you who journalists/ reporters like me turned to to get an handle on the growing catastrophe and helped those on the outside to investigate from all angles. This is how reporters got to the heart of the story. Remember media is not expert in anything but gathering and disseminating. Nothing was buried everything was in plain sight - and that's how some banks serving the middle-income earners tried to put in place sustainable banking programs in place from Latin America, to Amsterdam to the US, as early as 1999 (I got hired by an ABN AMRO bank to communicate the program's message.) By Jove, I think he's got it!!! lol

Sure having to witness your wife get raped by massa and bear his children must have been soul crushing for both husband and wife. But @Mel Hopkins are you going to suggest the conditions of enslavement are comparable to today? First Del asks for examples od bkaxk men protecting black wonen then immediately ignores or dismisses them without addressing them, and now you bring up a examples from our period of enslavement to explain why you dont "feel" protected in 2018. You will never "feel" protected. In a white racist majority society. Welcome to American sis. But this has nothing to do a lack of respect for you from black men. @Mel Hopkins do you also buy into @Delano's unsubstantiated belief that black men dont respect black women? As an aside: i pray for the souls of our brothers and sisters who endured the horrors of slavery, unable to protect themselves, or each other, from the evil heaped upon then for generations. I know they did best they could and we are a testament to their survival. There is nothing anyone reading has experienced which compares to their struggle. May their souls rest in peace.

I hate the fact that Black people are resistant when it comes to spending money with Black people. The problem is embedded deep within our culture and I notice certain social behavior that appears to be prevalent among all Black societies everywhere on the planet that I know of. There is a basic flaw that Black people have about doing business with their people. Of the biggest flaw I notice, it is being disingenuous when it comes to finance. I kind of feel like the Hotep community has become a playground for conscious pimps who are set at exploiting the Black community for money and personal gain. It's not cute. As a result, you have certain platforms that appeal to the community for money to grow their needed business. While I do feel that all Black businesses are necessary and deserve the support of the Black community, I feel like many of these platforms use Black empowerment to empower themselves. Anytime I notice disingenuous in the Black community when it comes to finance, I immediately turn away from these businesses or platforms. Black businesses need to stop duping our people when it comes to how we deal with their money. If this behavior is prevalent in the Black community, then it certifies that Black people have a reason not to trust these businesses and also businesses with good intentions due to their bad experiences with businesses, full black owned, that have taken money and lied about how that money was spent. There is no bigger crime in the Black community than this. It pains me to hear a story of a Black person who donated money to a Black business and later learns that this money was not spent how it was supposed to be spent. Unfortunately, this appears to be typical behavior in the Black community. We have to stop looking at our people as suckers and stop taking money from our people with crooked intentions. I have noticed that Facebook as well as YouTube has become a haven for scammers and Hotep pimps looking to take advantage of the Black community, simply to enhance their own pockets. This backwards behavior must cease in the Black community. We need to be able to trust each other. We need to feel comfortable and safe spending money with each other, which is how we will empower Black businesses and hold on to the Black dollar longer, which is imperative to building as a people. Furthermore, this behavior of stealing from our people is not who we are. I believe this behavior has been engineered socially. It's been programmed into us by our music and through Black media as well as mainstream media, which we haven't had proper control of. It appears that once many of our new generation leaders get a certain amount of pull or popularity in the Black conscious community, money becomes their religion. I love money as next as the next man, but I refuse to worship money. Understanding how it works is necessary. Valuing wealth is paramount. But making money your god is the wrong religion and will not lead to wealth, which supersedes money because money is superficial. Building respect, honor and integrity in the Black community has to be a priority, especially for the conscious community, which hopefully someday will evolve into a group of our most elite and forward thinking members of our race and culture. But we must not allow money to control our social behavior and influence our morality since money doesn't actually exist. True wealth lies in our cultural behavior as a people. True wealth relies upon moral foundation and principle. Once we get that back, then we have achieved wealth. Wealth should be and needs to be the goal. This flaw is something that must be corrected in the Black community.

@Delano how did you come to the conclusion that Nubuan Fellow and i are in the "clear minority?" Is there a study you can reference or some data you can present? Is all your information from white owned corporate media. As far as the men on this forum you are definitely in the minority. Black men largely respect black women -- much more than the media would have you believe. If your window into the black world is social media and tv you have a distorted picture. Subscribe to the Amsterdam news.

Girls this is an embarrassment. I am done. Try and convince Mel and Cynique. You don't defend what you don't respect. That may not apply to you, but clearly you're in the minority.

You are projecting a fantasy that doesn't match anyone's experience. How many Black Men defended the Black Women that Trump disrespected. 0.

Rap was never friendly to women in its 41 years. It has always been overwhelming male. It shaoes behaviour then amd now. Before rap was mainstream women where either invisible or prizes. Was it different where you grew up. How many all female crews were there in your hood. Cause inyhe Bronx there was Lisa Lee and Sha Rock. No female crews or female DJ in the first 10 years or so. There were a couple of Roxanne's.

Exactly. This is so true. @Delano karrine is not representative of Black people neither is commercial rap. You realize much of what you regurgitatung is corporate nonsense. As a result, you believe Black men do not protect black women. Unfortunately, this is obviously not your experience. As discussed you arent going to read about strong black men on social media or main stream media. We desperately need black media to control the narrative. @NubianFellow welcome to the forum. For what it is worth @Delano i've seen black men defend black woman, but this was always black men defending them against another black person sometimes a woman I've yet to witness a white man get ill with a black woman in the presence of a black or vice versa. In the south, where the honor culture is still in full effect, you would not be considered much of a man if you let some dude dis your woman in your presence.

@Delano Yes, I have had to defend Black women from other Black men. But I can also state that there are far more domestic cases of abuse involving the man abusing his women in white homes. This can be proven statistically. The truth, I believe, is that in this new internet age, that is very fresh and heavily evolving on a consistent and daily basis, things tend to be stretched out of proportion. People want engagement online and in order to get that you have to get people's interest. This means spreading propaganda, twisting reality, stretching things out of proportion and making reality seem as exciting as possible. This is the power of social media and what makes it thrive. Some people believe every couple of years that the world is going to soon end, and they become so consumed with these ideas that they will give away possessions and wait for the inevitable end - to the point that when it doesn't happen, they are sad in a way. Black problems in the real world have become stretched out of proportion online for clicks. Yes, we do have a lot of issues that we need to resolve, but most of these issues are behavior faults that lie within our social structure. Though I can admit that not every Black man is going to go out of his way to protect a Black woman, I believe that in any random scenario, the chance is likely that the Black man won't leave his woman to be handled by outsiders. And I have seen several videos online in which Black men always come to the rescue of Black women. Therefore, I believe any other beliefs are merely hype and propaganda.

@Delano Brother, though I agree that we can't defend them to the full potential that they deserve, I believe very much that we always come to the aid of our women, more-so than people of any other culture or race. This is why I also believe that white men do not try our sisters in our presence as much, because they know better. It happens but I feel that it is rare when a Black man stands down while another Black woman is being assaulted or even treated poorly. Heck, in certain areas the women even use this to their advantage and abuse that privilege though that is even more rare. From my viewpoint, when it comes to protecting our women, Black men are the most loyal. Again... I can't find much evidence of this on major social networks, but look at who is running that algorithm.

Black women don't agree with you. Why do you suppose that to be the case.

@Pioneer1 I’ve folkowed Goldie on twitter long enough to know she’s not trying to make friends. This piece is political satire -written tongue-in-cheek. Goldy has blocked folks on twitter for less and because of vitriolic tweets - msnbc did not renew her contract back in 2014 or 15... but anyway, Goldy, the former U.S. Marine, probably has a good grasp on how white nationalism works - she was literally in the trenches -

@Troy how can you say my question is wrong. And then say Black men defend women. Yet can't give one example. Your statement is similar to saying all Lives matters. Can you see how your statements reinforce the article. You don't see black women having concerns that extend beyond their colour.

Serve us, as in Black people? Or Serve us, as in Poor people? Because there’s a difference. Also most wealthy people claim they vote democrat (or registered democrats ) depending on where you live this would mean wealthy people are in the democratic tribe too.

It is necessary for Google to treat all information fairly. They have adopted new algorithms which haven definitely effected web results. I don' t believe the results are better now. I believe certain websites, especially websites I use have been effected, whereas some of results I once dominated are no longer featured by Google. There has been updates to these platforms which could effect results, but I hardly believe to the extent that Google has seemed to drop from consideration. Some of this leading content has proven supreme, in that when I checked, I saw that tons of sites have copied the content making me need to change it. But the link juice is not being considered at all, otherwise, these sites would still dominate these keywords. So I am definitely led to believe that there is something else, and it's not just software. it could be that much of the content goes against traditional political and personal views, which shouldn't be an issue when it comes to information. People should be able to get conflicting viewpoints and then determine their own. Also, Google controls most of the internet searches. This means they have the power to silence certain platforms or at least make life more difficult for these websites. If you disadvantaged as Black people are when it comes to any type of media, then it becomes quite necessary to make this game more fair. So I agree with changing this behavior because as usual, when there is a monopoly of something, we will always pay the penalty. I also don't think it is a coincidence that at the moment, when you type in buck breaking article, the most accurate account of the history is placed nicely at the bottom of the page below a Snopes Fact Check article that says the information is only partially accurate but repudiates the part about buck breaking. I don't think that's a coincidence. I also look at the fact that the more popular certain content gets, the less Google will feature and send traffic. For the past half year, Google has went from sending the sites in question most of it's traffic to hardly sending any traffic. The site gets more traffic on its own but I still smell a rat! If I had the power to send an unbiased team to investigate the algorithm itself, I'm sure we would easily find that these algorithms are written to protest supremacy. We now know the power of the internet. The content we produce has the power to change and effect people's minds and behavior, just like any other media. We also know that because people carry the internet with them in their pockets, the internet could easily get the title of the most influential media in the universe.

This echoes the Viola Davis conversation @Mel Hopkins

This is odd. I tried to write a recommendation on your facebook page but I wasn't allowed. I also liked the page through some of my other facebook pages as well. Nevertheless, Black media sites need to be more visible all around the board.

This has been historically true here in America - from Sojourner Truth, Harriet Tubman to the present. I can’t think of one point in recent history where black men have come to the defense of black women. I hope someone can and will correct me.

O agree. Promotion is more akin to support than defensive. So promoting Black Female writers is support. whole saying feminist issues are subordinate to racial issues is problematic for me.

When have black people voted against their own self interest? They've been voting overwhelmingly Democratic ever since FDR came into office, during the Depression in 1933. Why? As much as Democrats leave to be desired, Republicans have never represented a better choice.

There's a fine line between supporting black women, and defending them. i think most black women are aware of and appreciate black men acknowledging their achievements and aiding their aspirations. i don't, however, think sistas feel as confident when it comes to black men defending them from the slings and arrows of the white powers that be. At that point black men's priority is to avoid jeopardizing their own status. Yes, black males will fight each other over disrespecting a black woman as the result of a FaceBook dispute. But the higher they are on the socio-economic scale, the less black men come to the rescue of the women, they so often pass over for white ones. Black woman have historically sacrificed and gone to bat for male leaders they believe in, and do this under any circumstances. They have also historically been on their own.

@Delano this is a variation of a theme I previously raised and how it impact our literature. The question you asked is not really the right one, that is if you are really trying to understand what you perceive as a lack of support Black men show for black women as a collective. Your questions makes the presumption that the reason for the lack of support is true and based upon gender -- neither are true. There are a great many Black organizations who provide support for Black people of both genders (or should i now say all genders). AALBC (Troy Johnson) has supported Black female authors for over 2 decades. This is one example, there are countless more. Examples of Black men supporting other Black women does not go viral on social media, so you may not be aware of it. The lack of Black platforms inclined to celebrate these things, in the past have either gone out of business, or are focused or celebrity. This statement, quoted from the article, is complete and utter bullshit! My example of supporting Black women is just one, but EVERY Black man I deal with is supportive of Black women. Sure, my experience is anecdotal, but so was Natalie's. The fact that it was published without contention, as if it was a matter of fact is so frustrating. God only knows who will read this and absorb it as gospel. The article cited social media as a evidence of the lack of Black male support: My God. Ladies allow me to mansplain: MEN DO NOT USE SOCIAL MEDIA IN THIS FASHION! This also ignores the fact that Natalie can't see every post the algorithm is designed to be anything but balanced. I dislike social media and how it has impacted reality. The article goes on to cite Kanye West as proof of Black men not supporting black women (as if Kanye is a representative Black man) -- while completely ignoring the fact that a Black woman was sitting right next to Kanye?! Interestingly, Omarosa was not mentioned in the article and she bore as much of Trump's wrath as any Black woman. Why leave her out was she not worthy of support? This article was published by the Washington post (another Amazon property), who is more concerned with profit that telling the truth about Black support for each other. White men control the narrative. Our fight is countering the nonsense and it is a fight we are losing -- badly!

This quote sums up the article : Natalie Hopkinson, a professor at Howard University, summed it up. “A lot of black men are just not hearing what black women are saying because they are too busy complaining about their own situation,” she said. “When it comes to really supporting black women, nobody has our back but us.” But individually I believe black men protect black women who they believe deserve protecting. In fact, I don’t even think ethinicity really plays a role. It’s the battle of the sexes in play. At least, that’s been my perception. I think black women move to protect black men because we actually give birth to them so our knee jerk reaction is to protect the “baby boy”. I don’t have that nurturing reaction or response because I gave birth to girls - I expect men to protect me whether they want to or not.

Disagreement with you does not make her clueless. She has articulated her point. Yiu could substitute the Black and White Working Class and her statement is still valid.

@Pioneer1 Since, as usual. you are basing your conclusions on anecdotal evidence, i will reply in kind. In allll of my years, up to the present, i have yet to be acquainted with a black female who has been traumatized by white women not wanting to form a bond of sisterhood with them! What i have witnessed is how sistas can take or leave white women, and their reaction to those Miss Anns who have fallen short, is better described as "contemptuous" or "indifference", but never traumatic. When it came to Hillary's loss, not one black woman i know or any of the many on social media reacted in any way other than to roll their eyes, shake their heads and label these traitors as ignorant, spiteful, or selfish. Sistas may have been disappointed by this defection but were certainly not traumatized! Furthermore, straight black women have always been luke warm about hooking up with the white Feminist movement, preferring to deal with chauvinistic black males in their own "castrating" way. How do you think black women got their reputation of being strong and angry? The idea of them sucking up to white women and seeking their approval is ridiculous. White women, themselves, are known to be wary of black women, regarding them as hostile. That tired ol, self-hate argument trotted out as proof that black women treasure white women because they "emulate" their appearance, is played out. More authentic is how black women have confidently imbued any "current look" with their own unique flair, and even created their own styles which white women adopt. This situation is more about self-love, than self hate. The subject of black women is one you need to avoid because it is a something you are clueless about. SMH.

Hmmm. There really is a lot to pull apart in what you wrote. First I need to ask did you watch the video or read any of the accompanying documentation? It would be helpful if I knew for sure that you have a basic understanding of the environment. Do you understand why the EU took Google to court, and why the court penalized Google with a multi-billion dollar fine? If so, I gather you disagree with the decision. That is fine; one's perception of right or wrong is a personal decision. However, in this case, Google violated the law, which is far less subjective. No one said Google or Amazon were waging a war against Black people specifically. I'm saying their behavior adversely impacts us; perhaps morese than any other group, because we own so little on the web. @The DW_Perspective, are you or have you even been a bookseller? If so, could share how you come to know so much about the business? That would be helpful. The music business model was under assault before Itunes came along. How old are you? Do you remember Napster? Itunes as a music platform is growing increasingly irrelevant as more people move to simply streaming music or downloading it instead of buying it. I'm glad to read you like and use Bing. Unfortunately, the reality is that only a small minority of people use Bing. Bing has little impact in search. Do you run a website? If so, what percentage of your traffic comes from BIng? Your mention of Obama and the contributors to his campaign is lost on me. I watched the video. "net neutrality" is a serious issue. If 45 gets rid if it that would be bad, really bad.