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https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/meet-lena-waithes-black-women-who-brunch-next-big-tv-scribes-1165252?fbclid=IwAR3rqtX1Q-YuahyoTIhgpVsByuyKg2PDPN_jUxJzqrUERYkMoCEbfHJb9vI

Well, certain of you conveniently ignore what i said about the book written about King by his closest confidante, the Reverend Ralph Abernathy, in which many of the rumors were confirmed. i, myself, saw a play about 10 years ago based on King's affair with a young women, which if it hadn't been accurate could've been the subject of a suit by his heirs. And it never was. I don't profess to know about any homosexual activity. When you seek the truth, it is not always what we want to hear, especially if it is about our heroes. Pioneer also seems to completely disregard how JFK's involvement with Marilyn Monroe was sensationalized, to the extent of even advancing the idea that that he was involved in her death, which his accusers say was murder, not suicide. As for King, as far as i am concerned, his greatest asset was that he was not self-aggrandizing. it was never about him when it came to the movement, it was about his urging black folks to keep their eyes on the prize. Or did he originally seek leadership. He was chosen for it because of the obvious qualifications he displayed as a relatively unknown preacher. What he did in private was not something i was ever eager to cast stones about. Since his wife seemed OK with it, and he was doing a good job of advancing the black cause, i gave him a pass. His legacy speaks for itself because it involves his being instrumental in the passage of civil rights legislation. Some historians say that had he not been assassinated, his star would've faded as the days of civil disobedience fell from favor. As it was, his death made him a martyr. The same with Malcom X. So be it. About the term, "illegitimate", it had to originate somewhere, and it makes sense that that place was in courts of law where it is routinely used.

For the record, most Black men I know are good dads, they support their wives and children, they protect their families and most of the Black mothers I know personally strive to be the best mothers they know how to be. In the age of us waking up, of course they are not perfect parents, but they love their children and do their best. As a whole, my opinion of Black people is that we are unique, highly intelligent (in our own special way), have the best genes and the most soul out of anyone else. I don't buy the b.s. narrative that Black men are too effeminate or that Black women are thots and other bad words. But these people have an agenda and they have mastered the ability to make us turn on ourselves. The solution is simple. If you go to any ghetto on the planet, you will see that the crime rate is high and the property value is low. However, take any borough in NYC; the properties are valued at about 150k and up. However, if you change the mindset of those who inhabit these areas, the property values would shoot to the millions of dollars. If our thinking changes to a certain extent, we will have already increased our wealth without doing anything else.

This has been my case. Not that I will say a POV is right or wrong - but another perspective helps me to sharpen my view.

How would you know, @Troy ? Are you a woman having your agency snatched? Your statement here is similar to Kanye’s “400 years Slavery was a choice.” Longevity doesn’t make it right...and definitely not right when old ass men are marrying children.

@Delano so do you think the working class congregate at the barbershops - and form only transient relationships?  That the club and the pub are accidental. I feel women are more social or put more value on social exchange. Or at least that's my perception. Friends of my mother have contacted and visited me in Sydney a decade after her death. Mind that had not been in contact with me in over 20 years. But they had the initiative and social connections to do so.

About Black people destined to be at odds with each other, I think that in the context of discussion, there is nothing wrong with having different viewpoints. It doesn't mean Black people are at odds if discussion is happening. This is how we arrive to the most effective solutions. Viewpoints change throughout our lives. If I was having this conversation a few years ago or perhaps maybe even a year ago, my opinions could be a lot different than the opinions I possess now. I actually appreciate when I don't see eye to eye with my people because it means that I will either learn something or educate someone or perhaps both. Besides, without reasonable discourse, how would we agree on which point of view is the correct one?

@Mel Hopkins i seriously doubt the republicans will see another president for a very long time after 45 loses, which is almost certain unless we go to war (read: start another war) or the Dems fail to find a warm body to oppose 45, before the next election. Im not sure Elijah got a "pass" at least not by the genersl public. Personally, i don't know enough about the NOI to pass judgment. They do a lot of things i disagree with like abstaining from pork and liquor -- which would probably be in my best interest. And I have no interest in regularly attending their services or worshiping their God. That said im also not about to reject all the good the have done for Black people -- including myself, and suggest they dont defend Black simply because of one man's actions. ...for the same reason i would not discard all the good the Black Christian church has done because @Delano says MLK engaged in gay sex.

No, they are not. Look at how divided the American culture is and aways has been. NOTHING is "universal" when it comes to people.  @Troy Give an example of how the word "integrity" has been corrupted. The definition of the word has not changed. There are enough words out there to describe specific traits and this makes it unnecessary to distort the meaning of one word and apply it to something or someone that doesn't fit its definition. The meanings of certain words are intrinsic. And there are things that are universal when it comes to people! A smile and laughter indicate the same thing universally, and so does frowning and crying. Verbal communication via language is also universal as is walking up right. This disagreement between you and me, represents the tone of this whole thread because each poster sees the world through their own lens. All opinions are fixed and one person's truth is another's delusion Black folks seem forever destined to be at odds and this is because they are rarely in control of their environment be it physical or political and this makes it difficult to formulate solutions except in the sphere of their skulls. Such is life.

Clarification: This is a carry over from giving Elijah Muhammad a pass for sexually abusing girls in his charge. As a society, we can't give this a pass.

@Troy Seriously, you are a little LOT better at math than I - but even I know the GOP doesn't have major support - But they know the only way the GOP can win is with the electoral college and making it hard for most people to vote. It was like that when the white nationalist were DEMS in slavery times and it still works for the white nationalist now. The Electoral college has served the minority very well. BUT after this last election they are sounding the alarm because they believe they might lose Texas as a red state. Lose Texas and lose every presidential race forever. If they believed they were in the majority they wouldn't make it so difficult for the electorate to vote.

@Troy 71+ Million people voted for another candidate - 65 Million of those folks voted for Hilary AND 90 MILLION PEOPLE eligible to vote DIDN'T or COULDN'T VOTE AT ALL. Now I know you're good at math. At least you present as someone good at math - tell me how is that major support - Major meaning majority in this context. Dude can't even get a major approval rating. Erm, Rev Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr didn't die for us. He used his life to promote ideas that he hoped would better our position here. Let's not be dramatic.

@Pioneer1 , not sure where you've been for the last half century and the beginning of this one - sexual abuse, promiscuity and lying under oath about it got a white U.S. President Impeached. Further there have been far too many to count -nor would I list here, the number of political/social/cultural white leaders who had to leave their position for violating moral codes of infidelity, sexual abuse and impropriety, and that is in this century alone. Even Strom Thurmond was spared because he took care of his illegitimate daughter. According to reports he had sex with a 16-year-old who was working for his family. The news didn't break until after he was dead but those close to the family said he treated her like the family she was to him. So yes his sex life became part of his legacy too. As for your off-topic reasoning regarding the 18th century; I wasn't born then so I don't know what the word on the street was then. Those who write the history tend to look back with forgiveness. Trump doesn't have major support - he has white nationalist support. Some polls indicate he's the only president who hasn't received above 50% approval rating. So major support is an exaggeration. So while you seem to want to reduce this to casual sex - it's more than that. It's about sexual abuse especially of minors and fathering children as result of those relationships. No matter what color of your skin - that is frowned on in every culture and ethnic group.

@Pioneer1 I disagree implicitly with all you have said brother. Most African families aim to be American families or some other European nation at the end of the day. Yes, there are wealthy Africans but their wealth does not compare to ours. You are referring to less than 1 percent of African wealth. You pointed out their divorce rate is low. Perhaps the divorce rate would be lower if a woman knew her penalty for divorcing her mate was death. Enough said on that patriarchal system. You said their households make more money. This is fiction. I would love to know where you got this information from. Most countries in Africa are third world countries and our brothers and sisters over there are adamant about us "coming home" to help them build. Slavery hurt Africa in the worst way imaginable and they have never recovered from that poor decision of their corrupt governments. Finally, you said they outperform us in school. This is part is true. We have the highest dropout rates and we celebrate behavior that keeps us from excelling as a collective. African kids are more ambitious about learning than our kids and retain much more information and this needs to be addressed more heavily in the Diaspora. American Black kids reject knowledge while other races of children are thirsty for it. We also lack the discipline that exists within African societies. The sad part is that our children are super smart and intelligent but there is a problem embedded deep within our social structure that produces poor results. I don't say these things to put my African brothers and sisters down because they are me, but let's not be influenced by things that are propagandized and totally false information. As far as following the European model, the only thing I disagree with is doing things in the name of their god or jesus, which is a fictitious and mythical character that was stolen from our history books, ironically, because Egyptian mythology actually makes sense, unlike Greek mythology which is dumb in my opinion. If white people are saying that forced marriages are wrong then I can't argue with that perspective. If they think it's shameful that people are setting their brothers and sisters on fire and exhibiting cannibal behavior, I won't argue with that either. I love Africa and I dream of going back home someday, to the motherland. However, wrong is wrong and right is right. We know enough to call out the bs and we should. We need to stop praising tribal behavior and end the fascination of primitive rituals and cultures that keeps our people the most far behind on this planet. I'm for the ascension of the Black race. I'm for African empowerment. I will not cosign backwards behavior, simply because I love home.

@Pioneer1 I have to comment on what you said here because frankly, this was a bad example: "I'm sure you remember that in the older days some of our grandmothers and great grandmother's were being married BY THEIR FATHERS to older men at 15 and 16 years of age! I don't advocate that, however from their perspective I'm sure they were looking out for their and their children's interests by trying to pair them with men they thought would take care of them." These practices happen in dark nations today and in all cases it's sad. When a parent makes a child marry someone to achieve a certain position or higher standard of living they are not looking out for the child's interest. They are looking out for their own and though this exists throughout our world, it's terrible culture. In some cultures they practice bride kidnapping which is just as deplorable. White people came into their land and kidnapped and raped these people's wives and they adapted it as culture. Same thing with Africa. Many of these "traditions" were created out of being tormented by white people. Yet we celebrate these things and refer to these things as positive culture, which it is not. White publications point out how backwards these things are as if they are so advanced, but fail to mention the existence of white people are the reason many of these "traditions" exist in the first place. Because their ancestors and them have had and still have a hell of a time raping our people and killing us off. I love my African identity - don't get me wrong. But I can't cosign bs. As a people, we must not. Arranged marriages destroy lives and many of these women actually commit suicide and become exposed to the most diseases. It's a form of slavery and it should not be our way. Do we have to become chattel slaves again before we learn that slavery is wrong, on all fronts? @DelanoThe Black woman is the most unprotected woman on the planet, but not due to the Black man not protecting her to his best ability individually. The problem is systemic in that there is a system put in place to keep us powerless. And do I blame the Black man? Absolutely! One hundred percent. Its only because I see the Black man as a god, which means we don't have the luxury of excuses. But our collective behavior is low vibration. And we need to vibrate higher and become effectively more organized, unified and militant in our behavior. But today, our behavior collectively, is the opposite of militant. We've become used to mediocrity and the men always are supposed to lead. But where are we leading our women too? We are messing up. If you are talking about protecting the Black women to the best of our ability - collectively, then the Black man has not only failed the Black woman, but he has failed his race, the kids and hope for our future. And I put everything that's wrong with Black people on the shoulder and back of the Black man. It's our job to repair what we have allowed to become destroyed. And if we don't do that, who the hell are we not to accept accountability, even if that means our own extinction, from which it appears, we will be the biggest participants of.

No, this is certainly not true. The very fact that we are so often in disagreement about what constitutes integrity should be proof enough Yes it is true it's called mores or morals. Which are universal for any given culture and and time. However you can't compare across cultures and temporally it can break down over time. You have your own code of what you consider ethical. We clearly inhabit different world's. I think you and Troy are confusing a masculine perspective with domination You have your own code of what you consider ethical. We clearly inhabit different world's. I think you and Troy are confusing a masculine perspective with domination