Mel Hopkins

14 minutes ago, Troy said:

The reality is marriage, at least a successful one, is more like a great business relationship with "benefits." 

That's what I say!!!  GOAL MATES!!!

11 minutes ago, Troy said:

Sure Mel commodities have value, but the value must be the same for each unit for it to be a commodity.

@Troy  as I'm sitting here watching bloomberg - and looking at the board -the value changes depending on demand  and that's how we treat people.   We do it in the work place - and it seems to carry over to relationships.    Again, I'm not saying "YOU" - I'm saying our society does it when it comes to people  and I dream a world when we simply look at our community based on our goals.   You wrote  Harry wouldn't marry Gabby in billion years...  I get the sense that's statement was made on some arbitrary value assignment.   Is that correct? 

16 minutes ago, Troy said:

Besides the fact that the constant back and forth just clutters that board obscuring what might otherwise be interesting conversations. 

@TroyThis ^   ... I have a hard time following the topic when it's cluttered with name-calling/bickering.  It's too bad there's not a vote-down collapse feature  - where only those who are involved in the bickering can see their comments.   

54 minutes ago, Troy said:

people are not commodities for he reasons described above,

@Troy  your very statements make the case for people being commodities.   Assigning value makes them commodities!  

2 minutes ago, Troy said:

"marrying up" you take that to mean that I believe people are commodities? 

@Troy  Yes!  But not just you; our entire western civilization society! "Marrying up" or  "She can do better"  "He married beneath him"  Those sayings are predicated on value.   Something useful or valuable is a commodity .  



 

On 5/29/2018 at 1:54 AM, Troy said:

I guess compared to marrying you or I, it is a step up.

@Troy  @Pioneer1 
People are NOT commodities.  We are members of a networked community.    So, marriage is not a step-up but rather a strategic partnership based on goals.    

Since marriage is also government-sanctioned some people marry to expand their territories.  In this case, Meghan Markle put herself on a path to be a major player on the world stage.  By the time, Kensington Palace announced Meghan Markle and Prince Harry's engagement - she had already had several international speaking engagements (one at the United Nations) and was a world ambassador for World Vision Canada

Diplomacy isn't a new venue for Markle. She graduated from Northwestern University with a dual degree in Theater and International Relations. Before she graduated Markle briefly worked at the U.S. Embassy in Buenos Aires while there she also took the test to be a Foreign Service Officer.  She didn't pass. 

By the time she met Henry Mountbatten-Windsor, Markle was already a multi-millionaire.  In addition to her starring role on "Suits" she was a successful entrepreneur; she'd launched a lifestyle website called The Tig named best website by Elle and InStyle Magazines. She also had several endorsement deals including Ralph Lauren and Reitmans department store . At 36, maybe she decided it was time to pursue her first vocation in diplomacy but full time.   

Prince Harry seemed to clearly understand her goals and indicated it worked for him. 

In their first media interview after engagement announcement, Prince Harry said,

"...I know that the fact that she'll be really unbelievably good at the job part of it as well is almost is a huge relief to me because she'll be able to deal with everything else that comes with it. But, no, we're a fantastic team. We know we are. And, we hope to over time try and have as much impact for all the things that we care about as much as possible." 

Although, Hollywood may paint women as starry-eyed romanticist; it would be foolish for anyone to believe that's the truth.   Those who are surprised by the strategy and tactics women employ in achieving their goals aren't paying attention.  

Markle marrying Prince Harry is a means to an end. It's also a great partnership because now Markle can really attend to world affairs. In fact, it's part of her job description as Duchess of Sussex.

6 minutes ago, Kalexander2 said:

Are you suggesting such advice for a person you trust (like a mother to daughter) makes for rejection of socially defined goals but not the means or, take the ritualist/retreatist route in child development?

@Kalexander2  telling a young girl or young woman to "man up" is just as bad as telling a young boy or young man to do the same... If a parent wants to raise a child into healthy adult - He or she will encourage them to experience and process  the full range of emotions - not stifle them.     We have a world full of people who don't know how to process their emotions - and as I mentioned earlier in this thread - it means these people are lying to themselves. 

4 hours ago, Chevdove said:

But, in my observation, the scientific community is very vague about the Y-DNA Sex chromosome because they don't want to shed light on the African male origin of all mankind living today.

Anthropologists , statisticians and everybody else are making it tough for biologists to get around it -because they reference the original Y-DNA in these published scientific research articles.    I have noticed, however,  more of a focus on what happened once "we modern humans" left out of Africa... 

4 hours ago, Chevdove said:

I grew up in the Black Church, and I am very frustrated with the omission of a lot of information. How can you believe in something, based on a book, but you only read a part of the book!?

 

TRUTH!!!  As I just mentioned in the other thread - I found a lot of missing parts in  hebrew talmud and text called pseudepigrapha (false writings ). It filledin a lot of the blanks especially where women are concerned http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/

2 hours ago, Chevdove said:

Your book seems like the Agatha Christie kind of mystery but African style.

I love Angela Lansbury shows. lol. especially the ones that she did on THE BIG EASY and 

the VOODOO mystery.

LOL!  Thank you!  I grew up reading and watching Agatha Christie mysteries.  I hated learning that one of her books was entitled The Ten little N-ers"    But Jessica B. Fletcher ? I want her life! LOL ... I remember when Netflix licensed Murder, She wrote ... I binged watched every episode - some twice.  Now, I fall asleep to her shows at night LOL! 


I love the performance! I don't know why I'm so weepy but I felt a bit nostalgic watching them perform.   It appears there are several tribes represented in the dance segments.   And one of those dance segments reminded me of the Djembe Nyabhingi drumming.  I wrote about it in my book as it marks the moment when one of the women becomes an Obeah High Priestess and possessed by the spirit of Nyabhingi   - 

According to some articles, women aren't allowed to play the djembe drums  ... but the first Djembe drummers were allegedly WOMEN.  The mythology allegedly traces it roots back to Women Warriors  defeating German colonist who were attempting to conquer Uganda ...
 

https://jah-rastafari.com/forum/message-view.asp?message_group=6450

https://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/lioness-nyabinghi-priestess-queen-mother-of-africa/


"The African warrior Queen Nyabinghi was believed to be the reincarnation of the Lioness Kemetic warrior goddess Sekhmet. Queen Nyabinghi was known for playing her powerful, mystical trance drum. Her Ugandan female followers, called bagiwas, were so fearsome in victory that the invading colonialists had them branded as witches performing rituals with the drum. The drum was eventually outlawed. The Nyabinghi rhythms of resistance have long played a major role in Rastafarian culture.

"… The drum is therefore a divine tool of the Supreme Being, a womb or beginning of created life."

The name Nyabinghi was a synonym for Sekhmet. Though the true details of her life has been subsumed in legends, Queen Nyabinghi was the archetypical Priestess-Queen of a province of Upper Kush (Ethiopia-Egypt), who rebelled against the oppressive life-denying evil regime which disrupted order and stability in the motherland through the instrumentality of foreign occupation, external manipulation and local collaboration. "   

As you can see, I was determined to let my daughters know who they are - and what black women really mean to this world.  I even found the names of the heroines of that are left out of the traditional scriptures ... Noah's wife... the wives of the sons  that were on the ark; Judith slaying General Holofernes  ... I  had to reference Talmud for that info... but these women figure into my story.   I find the old testament scriptures the greatest occult book ever written and it serves as a foundation to my novel.  The Testament of Solomon still scares me -  lol 

I'm considering re-editing my novel to be a bit more conventional in storytelling  and see if I can get a traditional publisher to release it this time.   If you'd like to read it - before the changes;  here's a link http://theleadstory.org/paperbacks/2755-2-paranormal-romance-excerpt/


 

3 minutes ago, Chevdove said:

Your daughter is absolutely incredibly beautiful.  

@Chevdove  No she's not my daughter! My youngest daughter sent me this story  - sorry for the confusion. I wanted to share with you their perspective of the people they admire.  
 

5 minutes ago, Chevdove said:

They are frustrated sometimes... they complain sometimes and say, "Mom, I'm the ONY ONE, THE ONLY BLACK MALE..."

I don't know what to say, how to help them. 

But I'm  glad I included the video of  "the only" black woman trader in the last post.   

My daughters are usually "the only one" too - I was the only one too - and you mentioned you too were the only one... It is a difficult path but at the same time you find out who you are by what you choose to tradeoff. 

I used to tell my News coworkers " I don't have a phD in negrology (and I got that from quote from the film director  Melvin Van Peebles) but being the only black female news anchor /reporter allowed me to give voice to a perspective that only I could share with the millions of viewers.   When you are the only one YOU MUST remember your goals that brought you there in the first place.   

Journalist extraordinaire  Malcolm Gladwell just did a podcast (Revisionist History) on "the only one"  Sammy Davis Jr...and the part of his humanity he had to give up to be the only one. I tell you I was crying like a baby at the end of the podcast.
 

11 minutes ago, Chevdove said:

YOu say, your daughters are presently single, are you single now? IF so, do you think they shy away from heterosexual relationships because of

how they view your relationships?

Could be.  My daughters date but their focus is on  career and social life. AND they travel a lot.  My middle daughter has a dual degree in psychology and statistics so she is preparing to go to grad school.  The oldest is advancing in her legal career and it takes up a lot of her time. The youngest is focused on building a business (she hasn't said what yet ) lol and she has a steady beau. 

   I don't think they get that from me - though. I tend to be in love with love and in the absence of  a "GOAL MATE" , I'm immersed in my  profession."   

20 minutes ago, Chevdove said:

because it seems most people are in a rage over the 

reality of us being married.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN???  (Ok I'm just being nosey)  but it reads like The Loving V. Virginia Supreme Court Case  

38 minutes ago, Chevdove said:

And, I guarantee you that you probably know more than me about mtDNA!--LOL even though it was a big chunk of my major

@Chevdove  nah, I don't think I do.  You got this.  

I'm a journalist... I read a lot and my copyeditors/factcheckers keep me honest about providing source documents  for what I think I know and write. lol

48 minutes ago, Chevdove said:

May I ask how old were you when this happened?

@ChevdoveI was 17 years old when my father died.  I don't know what it is but black women back then modeled those in British monarchy - Those women seem to believe emotional outburst in public is unbecoming.   

Do you remember how Jacqueline  Kennedy, Coretta Scott King, and I think even Ethel Kennedy carried themselves at their husbands' funeral?  When I look back on those archives , it appears as some unwritten rule of conduct.  

I wrote about it in my debut novel "sleeping with a d-man",  I wrote it for my oldest daughter before she left for college.  In fact, my occult novel explores the role of women of African descent from times immemorial to the present.  That's why I have all that research on mtDNA.  (full disclosure - I needed to research it for my book) I wanted my daughters to understand how society relates to black women... which is counter-intuitive to our role as mother of all civilization. 

I was a "star" to my father so he balanced my mother.  When he was gone my heart broke.  He was the symbol of the "savior" I spoke about earlier in this thread. 

Black men and men in general play a huge part in parenting and cohabitation. The father supports the mother while the mother nurtures the children. The father is the physical strength in the family - and it's displayed in imagery as when you see the father help the son or daughter put a star on the christmas tree.   It is such a beautiful symbiotic relationship. 

When the father is absent (emotionally, physically, financially et al)  the mother has no emotional support. It is quite rare to see a mother display the balance necessary to raise an emotional healthy child. For example,   An imbalance of Hypermasculinity and Hyperfeminity come to mind - such as when a woman allows her children to be sexually assaulted while she pretends not to see.  

But I digress. 

I was lucky because I had a huge support system for my oldest daughter (I didn't marry her father) and I was married before the twins came along )  Still I had a huge support system with my girls.    

Today, my oldest daughter has a Juris doctorate now and she's not married.  In fact none of my girls are married . They seem to have wonderful social lives balanced with their professions. In fact, my youngest just sent me an instagram of the only female trader on the New York Stock Exchange she's a young black woman, shown here -https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/06/13/lauren-simmons-is-the-only-full-time-female-trader-at-the-nyse.html

I adore my daughters and I think they like me too (smile) They are loving and caring -  So that could be due to their upbringing. my ex- husband believes I should write a book on how I raised, in his words "Three Aces"  but the book is already written because  I knew it  would take a village to raise healthy adults; so I created one
 

1 minute ago, Chevdove said:

Look!--I HOPE NOT!--I hope the Y chromosome doesn't become extinct! LOL! I don't want to live in a world without men! LOL.

@Chevdove LOL!!! I was just getting ready to edit  to update it to say - not extinction of MEN - just the "Y" .  One those studies indicated  post modern humans created different sexes in other ways... 

18 hours ago, Chevdove said:

Alll Y-DNA has a basal MARK that shows their origin is in Africa and it is called 'basal a'. All males have this 'basal a' mark and it does not recombine. 

@Chevdove  also when I was searching for my source documents - I saw the 2013 article of the man with Y-DNA that branched off from the modern humans - THE PLOT THICKENS!  I started reading about mitochondrial eve and human migration back in 2005 - I follow up every so often because I find it fascinating. BUT I missed the development of the Albert Perry's Y-DNA dating back 340000 years!   I look forward reading more research on this new development.  Thank you for the update!

12 hours ago, Kalexander2 said:

the Black woman who suffers the brunt of society's BS, and remains the most well kept concealed secret? 

@Kalexander2  I blame it on black mothers - who would tell us, " Cry and I'll give you something to cry for".   I wasn't even allowed to cry at my father's funeral.  My mother said, "Don't represent your father that way"  

17 hours ago, Chevdove said:

Actually, I think it is the other way around, but I need to look at my notes regarding the mtDNA. That is the one that does 'mutate'. But the term for the Y-Dna haplogroup is that it is more stable and it does not RECOMBINE like the mtDNA and this is why scientiest know the origins of mankind, which they say is much more recent than the Mitochondrial Eve. Alll Y-DNA has a basal MARK that shows their origin is in Africa and it is called 'basal a'. All males have this 'basal a' mark and it does not recombine. 

@Chevdove  

As it relates to anthopology, the mtDNA  mutates almost every 8000 years .  The mutation here refers to assigning mtDNA haplotypes into halplogroups  which is represented here in this phylotree ( A comprehensive phylogenetic tree of worldwide human mitochondrial DNA variation, currently comprising over 5,400 nodes (haplogroups) with their defining mutations.)  

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0008260    Molecular Clock of the mtDNA hominid 

credit: van Oven M, Kayser M. 2009. Updated comprehensive phylogenetic tree of global human mitochondrial DNA variation. Hum Mutat 30(2):E386-E394. http://www.phylotree.org.

doi:10.1002/humu.20921

Also, the mitochondria is not a chromosome such as the Y that recombines slightly or X that recombines with the other X chromosome and a little with the Y. 

(See this 2001 study on the question of mtDNA recombination https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1461814/pdf/11606549.pdf )

The Mitochondria are small membrane-bound structures contained in the cell's cytoplasm.  It  is responsible for generating energy needed for cell function.  The mitochondria contains its own DNA and protein-synthesizing machinery.  It  reproduces by splitting in two to make a second copy of the DNA . https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-do-researchers-trace/

The offspring inherits the mtDNA from the mother.

The father inherits his mother's mtDNA but males cannot pass it on.  The Y only passes from father to son, whereas the mtDNA goes from the mother to both son or daughter.  This link leads to an early study of Y-Chromosome mutation  https://www.nature.com/news/2009/090827/full/news.2009.864.html  . 

And yes, mutation is limited  for the Y-chromosome  because its the X that has all the genetic information to combine with the Y to form a viable human.   

Recent studies,  previously stated the Y chromosome was on its way to extinction because it only recombines to provide genetic information for male reproductive organs - and had emptied itself of other genetic material.  According the article (link)  it has found a way to stabilize itself.  https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/news/140513_ychromosome

https://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/evolution-y-chromosome

But as you know the origin of mankind was the X chromosome.  According to studies, and the aforementioned article) there was no Y chromosome until about 180 million years ago.   

.

4 hours ago, Chevdove said:

My father told me that my mother was mentally off and angry because she didn't give birth to a son. 

(((HUGS))) @Chevdove  WOW, if this was a memoir it would be riveting because what you shared here rocked me!  Your mother was sad she didn't give birth to sons?

 Oh snap, As you mentioned this took a terrible toll on you and your siblings.    And if I understand correctly, she had your children taken away?    See, this is what I mean about broken people. If your mom is broken - then how does a broken woman raise  children and not break them too? In ways that she may not realize?    I had to realize that about myself - there are certain behaviors that I developed in response to my upbringing.  - My parents were loving parents to me - but they were broken too  and that can't help but spill over into the home.  

4 hours ago, Chevdove said:

But I came to a point where I refused. But when it comes to BLACK WOMEN, I believe it is a terrible saga due to societal persecution. We are damned if we leave are kids and work and then, we are damned if we don't. We are viewed as selfish if we seek a career and then we are framed as lazy soap opera watching stay at home Moms if we don't, but other women don't get this treatment, in my opinion.

I agree - if you let western society have their way, black women aren't even supposed to get pregnant ... We are made to feel ashamed for taking time to have babies in wedlock - and if we choose to be single parents -then...well that's unacceptable.  I wrote a blog post  about Bridget Jones ' Baby - because a black woman could have never starred in that movie, without all of society especially black america having the movie pulled before it aired LOL.... 

I remember when I was carrying my twins - and I had to go on bed rest; My woman Indian doctor, at the time, was reluctant to say mine disability papers lol... Even after the emergency room doctor ordered it.  I found a black woman ob-gyn with quickness  to care for me and deliver my girls.   So yes, I absolutely understand.   You have a very powerful story - I hope you've shared it already - and if you haven't I hope you find your voice. 

57 minutes ago, Kalexander2 said:

Again I wary now, even more, faced with both qualitative and qualitative bias.  Your thoughts, please!

@Kalexander2 , My thoughts?  I haven't read the studies so I don't know if a bias exist.  Once I select the studies, I compare and contrast everything I read if I haven't experienced it first hand.  

27 minutes ago, Kalexander2 said:

in starting in America (first)

Actually, I should have written Americas  and since the native americans (mexico, canada and u.s.) are said to be from south asia , it would make sense to look at the information already in studies to see the migration patterns between Asia and Africa 

also if  early humans were mostly matrilineal tribes then it stands to reason why today we trace migration patterns through the mtDNA.  The mitochondrial DNA doesn't mutate  that often. Allegedly my mtDNA is found in a haplogroup that is 80,000-104,000 years old traced back to east africa and ethiopians.  So if there was a way to find the "african" origin of Asians (there is by the way - they came from my clade)  then we can begin with the women in those groups to the first women in the new haplogroup... we could learn their language and religion -and then find out where they separated... 

So far, the mtDNA tells us that my foremother remained in east africa but my "daughters" crossed over into yemen to begin a new group (euroasians)...  Still that doesn't give us the what their early community looked like - how they met up with the neanderthals et al ... because what anthropologist have reveal thus far, is those of us who remained in Africa didn't meet or mate with neanderthals but those who left out of Africa did... 

 

22 minutes ago, Kalexander2 said:

So, do you think it is possible a 'trace' through the Southeast Asia desert could unearth patterns and language of Black folk?

@Kalexander2  maybe if  we'd start here in America and look at migration patterns  http://www.indigenous-americans.com/

11 hours ago, Chevdove said:

I think men cope with this issue differently than 'a true natural mother'. I've seen many stories where some women don't seem to 'lose it' if their children are taken from them, some have abused their own children, and etc. But me, I lost it. I know what it's like to have your spirit broken. I went through hell. I was severely persecuted by my own family members because they wanted me to stay on the job, put my babies in day care... I fought for my college degree and career job... First AFrican American woman in the Shipyard as an Industrial Hygienist, etc. etc. etc. ... but when I couldn't find a decent babysitter, I kept my own babies... tough decision... Stay-at-home-Mom--- Penalty... YOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE IT IF I TOLD YOU... FAST FORWARD... When your enemies are your own people... and other step forward to help you.... Well, ... This American system is based on Colorism and White Supremacy... but that doesn't mean that Black people are not White Supremacist...

@Chevdove.

I read this earlier and had an epiphany, a coming to jesus meeting and experienced nirvana  - all in that order.   Thank you.   

Please keep in mind, I'm not saying your feelings and experience aren't valid, but what I'm about to write is based on my journey. And because of  what you expressed, I can see now  what I missed.   

From my perspective, the only difference I see between men and women are their goals.   

Successful opposite sex relationships arise from the two being goal mates.  For example, If the mates' goal is to ensure the success of their offspring, then they will do everything together that is necessary to make that happen.   

You've written that black women were your oppressor but could they have also been your savior? What were  their goals for you?  You mentioned in a follow up "

9 hours ago, Chevdove said:

But thank you. I do need to keep focus on my real goal, my offspring... that is the focus... the next generation.

Did they hope that you would do more than be a mother and caregiver for the next generation?  Did you go through your academic and professional experiences with the goal to be a mother and caregiver?   (Hypothetical question, because although I have a fabulous professional life  but I went through hell and high-water to raise my girls. They came first  because raising powerful women was my goal.   My ex-husband had the same goal - we just had different goals for marriage  .   

(20-20 hindsight speaking, here).  

My ex-husband is german-french ancestry because right up until I met him; men of african ancestry had been "my oppressor." - I realized from reading your response - that was a lie I told myself.   They weren't my oppressor -they just weren't my savior.  If we're looking for a savior - chances are we're going to find a lot more folks looking to be saved.  And they will most likely break our hearts.  But I digress.   

I was heart "broken" by the time I met my first love, a black man.  Up until him; I was a "player" in a game that was set up against women - but I didn't care because my heart wasn't in it. It wasn't my goal to be someone's property.  It was my goal to... I actually had no goals.  

 Coming to someone broken is a heavy load for the other to carry - especially when they may be broken too.  We are so much like sheep - we hide our wounds in an effort to not be vulnerable - but we expect someone to care for our wounds that they can't see.   I remained "broken" but expert at hiding my wounds. So anyone that wasn't like the one who didn't "save" me - was the hero.  

All this to say, we are all broken... no one is an oppressor ... We're just a bunch of broken vigilantes instigating and carrying out a bunch of  mini-battles since the dawn of time- we are the anti-christ, the beast.  

This, I believe, is why the idea of a supernatural savior and the idea of a supernatural energy called LOVE is so appealing.   We can access it but first we have to stop lying to ourselves about who the real enemy is.   

$0.02

14 hours ago, Kalexander2 said:

Little sister, M. Hopkins, you sound like an Anthropology/Sociology textbook.  TEACH ON!!!

@Kalexander2, I've read, (Pioneer- wait for it, wait for it Peter Drucker's "managing oneself" and he says the best way to learn something is to teach it.   I'm learning  so thank you.    

Speaking of which,  @Pioneer1 and @Cynique offered answers to the question I barely formulated.  From their insight, I believe  If we can trace the earliest use of language AND religion practiced by a group we can determine their origin and migration of a people. 

 I'm sure there are quite of few cultural anthropologists who know this but they've probably put their findings in a book - and the media gatekeepers have hidden it.    

14 hours ago, Kalexander2 said:

Betty Friedan, the feminine mystique who championed women's rights to work in 1960's, who work totally ignored the thousands of Black women.

. 
Friedan was speaking for and to women who were sheltered at the time and looking for a way to gain their independence. 

Specifically, those who, culturally speaking, hadn't found their way into the workforce.   The majority of black women in America had been in the workforce since slavery - there was no need for us to find our way into the labor force - most of us were already there.  The message wasn't for black women.     One thing, I've learned as a journalist and marketer is "know your audience."   While the West operates under the system of patriarchy - our struggles are similar but not the same.   

16 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Despite the actual name, I think we can both agree that there were 2 separate groups of Black people that we're talking about.

I will defer to your assessment, @Pioneer1   according to our DNA we traveled as tribes and like every other animal on the planet - we followed the water...

I also agree with Cynique - WHEN did we become two or maybe more distinct groups of blacks?  Also, how and why did we change physically.   

Also language, as @Cyniquepointed out, played a large part in our movement; as it does today.  The antiquity of the Tuareg Women indicates they were a matrilineal tribe ( it may indicate some were the original Hebrews.)  The men followed the women.   Anthropologist report women and men lived separately - even after marriage. Surprisingly,  Today, some reports indicate their lifestyle hasn't changed.     Also  the Berbers were nomads then and today so if some converted to Islam it would make sense how it would spread.   

If I had a chance to go "home"...it would be fascinating to research these questions.   Especially in the libraries in Addis Ababa (Aside: The Ethiopians and Egyptians are still at it lol)

What is so sad as it is empowering is that we are having these conversations and doing the best to piece our origin story together.   It seems that the " fire-stick-inventing-conquerors" know our origin and history - yet co-opted and white-washed  for themselves even though they know it originated with the first group of modern humans .   

Or did it? 

Maybe this has been one long extraterrestrial  battle for superiority that we brought to Earth like in the marvel comics ....

55 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Mel

Perhaps it's the wording.

I acknowledge that Black people lived in what is now called the United Kingdom (and other parts of Europe) for thousands of years before Caucasians arrived.  Again, they were later referred to as "elves" and "trolls" and written as mythology.

But to call them "Moors" is a problem for me because it's my understanding that Moors were a SPECIFIC group of people from North Africa and not just a generic name for any and all Black peoples.

@Pioneer1

Remember, I'm not wedded to this description of the moors. For once I can't even debate lol.     I'm still piecing together what I've seen in Europe, South America and even Asia as it relates to the "moors" and what I've read and am reading. 

You may have hit on something.   It may be the wording.  

Consider this article , I stumbled upon... Essays by Ekowa  <- Link http://www.essaysbyekowa.com/Black Briton.htm   

Here's an excerpt.   

 Wherever there is man or civilization there is the Black man. Wherever we have planted our seed civilization took root. Europe was not exception African had populated the isle long before Europe / Europa took its name:

Europa (Greek Ευρώπη) was a Phoenician [black] woman in Greek mythology, from whom the name of the continent Europe has ultimately been taken.

The etymology of her name (ευρυ- "wide" or "broad" + οπ� "eye(s)" or "face")[2] suggests that Europa represented a lunar cow, at least at some symbolic level.

Who was the Lunar Cow?

According to Gerald Massey in his book ' A Book of Beginnings'  to the Egyptian origins of the British Isles':  He has evidence  that Stonehenge, the most famous ancient monument in England, was built by a Negro architect, named Morien. [That is the name MOR or Moor came from the ancient Egyptian].

'He says, as a Negro is still known as Morien in English [British tongue], may not this indicate that Morien belonged to the black race, the Kushite [African] builders?'

 The word 'Moor' is derived from Latin 'Maures' meaning black. Here are a few derivations on that name:

�Maurice, Morris, Morrero, Moore, Maureen, Morien, Mary, Marie are the names of ancient African people in Europe . Also; Blackwell, Blackwood, Cole, Coker, Lenoir and Brown refer to Black people. Coke is a derivative of Coal. Old King Cole was a merry Black Soul, and may be the reason Coca-Cola is a dark in color. Soul was always considered a dark thing, we added to this by our thinking that Black people were the 'Souful' ones. 

From the same root we derive:

Maur, Maurus, Marra, Moro, Morisco, Mohr, Moritz, Moor, Moru, Maru, Morelo, Maureta, Mauretania, Morocco, Maurice, Morien, Morin, Moryan, Moreto, and so on.�

The Oxford dictionary definition:

 "The Moors were," according to the Oxford English Dictionary, "commonly supposed to be mostly black or very swarthy, and hence the word is often used for Negro."

Swarthy - KEIR: Gaelic name meaning "dark-skinned, swarthy."  

Black Irish and the tide of Ignorance

"The term Black Irish is a term used by some descendants of Irish emigrants to describe their ancestors. The term is found in Australia, Canada, Great Britain and the United States. It refers to the possessing of dark hair and eyes as opposed to the caricature of Irish people with red hair, pale skin, and blue or green eyes, a difference which is possibly due to less Anglo-Saxon and Scandinavian ancestry being found in people on the west of Ireland. The term is often accompanied by a claim that the darker features are due to Iberian descent.  A prominent theme of ethnology in the 1800s was that the Irish were related to African People and black people and both were inferior.

John Beddoe (1826-1911), one of the most prominent Victorian ethnologists in the United Kingdom supported these theories with his work. Beddoe believed that eye colour and hair colour were valuable evidence in the origins of the British people. He published The Races of Britain: A Contribution to the Anthropology of Western Europe in 1862 and again in 1885 and 1905 and it was republished again in 1971. Beddoe wrote in this book that all geniuses were "orthognathous" (that is, have receding jaws) while the Irish and the Welsh were "prognathous" (have large jaws). Beddoe also maintained that Celts were similar to Cromagnon man, and Cromagnon man was similar to the "African" race.  Celts in Beddoe's "Index of Negrescence" [ Negrescence is a word with a Latin origin and describes "a process of becoming black". It can also refer to having a dark complexion.] are very different than Anglo-Saxons, which was published in 1862 in his "Races of Britain" book, and also in an 1870 paper. In the 1870 paper, Beddoe describes various Celtic types, and describes the racial category of "Africanoid Celts".   This analysis was used to support Beddoe's theory that the Irish had the physical characteristics of the indigenous, aboriginal people of the British Isles.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Irish.

Well, that's white folks at it again . When  you find a black man you ha to label him inferior instead of looking at the whole context and understanding he is the basis for you civilization and culture..... "  

***

I haven't had time to source the information - but it might be fascinating to find "Moors"  was a description of people who later just wore the name like a badge of nobility.  

14 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

he Moors were a LATER group of Africans who came after 700 AD and practiced Islam.

@Pioneer1 The author of the article I referred to would disagree.   He wrote that folks who believe your view are misinformed about the moors.  My world travels also point to the fact, that moors were first in europe and then were conquered.   This is why it is important to read books but also travel the world to see for yourself. 

Further, according to historical reports Moors existed all throughout europe and africa  They left their stamp in architecture and practiced all types of religions included none at all.   Also when you look at Queen's artifacts (sceptre jewels et al)  its designs are straight out of the motherland. 
,
 Also there's this article in the guardian. 
 

"It was initially assumed that Cheddar Man had pale skin and fair hair, but his DNA paints a different picture, strongly suggesting he had blue eyes, a very dark brown to black complexion and dark curly hair.

The discovery shows that the genes for lighter skin became widespread in European populations far later than originally thought – and that skin colour was not always a proxy for geographic origin in the way it is often seen to be today"

Still, since none of us were there; I tend to go with scientific proof... although I can be swayed stories that fit the narrative I subscribed to - lol