Mel Hopkins

1 hour ago, Troy said:

Yes, yes @Mel Hopkins all of it is defined by, and impacts, the culture. It is a complex system of influences. However when people are influenced solely by money -- as publicly traded companies are, the tactics become more nefarious resulting in more negative outcomes than we would get from the influence of art.

@Troy , the arts can be used for negative outcomes too... I was giving you an example that seemed to be positive but doesn't have to be. 

Further, I used written works or the arts as a method to shape society to illustrate, like advertising, it operates on a subconscious level to bring about a desired outcome or goal.  It doesn't matter if the goal is money driven, seeking to control a group or to be an opiate of the masses - it is far more effective than advertising.

Consider how scripture was and is used throughout the world to remove wealth and power from the masses.  

By the way. if advertising were effective as you believe- then it could easily change the behavior of gangbangers in Chicago.  It would be effective at ending all types of undesirable behaviors - but even with the large money backed PSAs we see the only people who respond are the ones who want to.

 

30 minutes ago, Delano said:

I believe marketing is effective because identity is a chimera and people are pack animals.

@Delano, Yes!  I heard a study that most people will purchase products because it allows them access to community; or to be in with "the group."   It would even explain why facebook is still so popular even though people know they've been used and abused by the company.  Loners don't need validation so they are rarely interested in being "in"... in fact, being "in" is repulsive to some loners. 

18 minutes ago, Troy said:

It is not an either or proposition, and there are varying degrees of influence across a wide range of domains.

And here is where we agree... Oddly enough, even though I don't believe in advertising; I do believe in the influence of written works, the arts, etc  and how they change society as a whole.  

For example, even on a small level, you'd be surprised how many "a commoner marrys a prince/princess" stories that have been running since the beginning of this decade.   By the time Meghan and Harry tied the knot - some people were uncomfortable but not as many as could have been had they not be subjected to all those stories on the small screen. 

5 minutes ago, Troy said:

Your last post Mel tells me you give marketers too little credit.  You are telling me that you smoked to keep your weight down -- despite knowing how lethal cigarettes are?! Why not simply consume fewer calories, or take the stairs, or park further away from the mall entrance?

BECAUSE NOT EATING WAS EASIER,  You silly!!!

6 minutes ago, Troy said:

It seems to me that you and Cynique will bend over backwards to justify the destructive behavior dictated by marketers... 

@Troy  Anyway, there's no need to bend over backwards; people do what they want to do.  I just believe in the agency of people - and you believe in the power of outside influences. 

18 hours ago, Chevdove said:

 

I seen a lot of hoax too. But there is some accurate evidence, but it is difficult to determine on the internet if you don't know what to look for. Also, Some of this 

information is deliberately kept out of public view. 

@Chevdove I lived near Moundsville, WV,  when I lived in the Ohio Valley and Native American lore indicated there were giants buried in the mounds. I included the lore in my novel since it advanced the story line.   I  heard of the stories from the residents but here's a link to an article that makes a reference. http://appalachianmagazine.com/2014/09/26/the-giants-of-appalachia/ 

 

*** (Everyone reading this)

By the way, I absolutely believe the "sons of God" were Angels and their offspring were Nephilim (Giants).  Further, according to biological findings there was only the X chromosome in the beginning so we didn't always combine to create offsprings the way we do today.   So consider this would  it absolutely be  necessary that angels had to be "anatomically correct" to reproduce?  Maybe that is the true story of Mary ....

2 hours ago, Troy said:

At the end of the day, if you are ignorant of the harmful manipulation or knowledgeable about it but powerless do anything; it makes little difference as the results are they same. Actually people who know what is happening are probably under additional stress because of the cognitive dissonance.  

@Troy  It appears you are under the influence  of advertising.  It seems you give it far too much credit.  People can only be influenced to do what they already want to do... it has nothing to do with strong will or lack thereof...it is about the desires and goals.   Every salesperson, every marketer knows that. This is why we sell to audiences that are primed for a sale.   If the person's interest is piqued by the ad - then there's an in...if not then the advertiser seeks to sell to someone who is. 

For example, I'm not particularly disciplined but there's no amount marketing that could make me smoke or drink.  I don't drink beer, liquor, whiskey  or smoke and I grew up in Brooklyn. Further, I am a media junkie.  I watch more television, read more books,  magazine articles and newspapers than the average person.  I can tell you which jingle and tagline goes with which product and there's a lot.   I even collect advertising and promotional items. 

This means I'm exposed to more advertising than the average person but it takes someone in my peer group to suggest I try a product.   The reason why I'm a hard sell is because I like to be in control of my faculties.  My will to remain in control is stronger than the influence of advertising.  

Advertising is that simple there's nothing nefarious about it.  Find someone's desires and goal then you can sell to that thing to them. 

Disclaimer: When I was television news anchor,  I did smoke in the place of eating. I maintained my high school cheerleading size as a grown women of three daughters because I lived on cigarettes and coffee.  My ex-husband smoked and he was thin - so I figured it'd helped me CONTROL my appetite.    I  stopped when it no longer served me haven't smoked cigarettes since.  

My point is, there has to be something in it for the buyer  to be persuaded to bUy the product.    Not the other way around.

18 hours ago, Chevdove said:

@Mel Hopkins Congrats on your Ebony article!

@Chevdove  Thank you!!!

15 hours ago, Delano said:

Congratulations 

Mel 

@Delano Thank you!

@Troy  who is four-eyed gangsta?

On 7/27/2018 at 3:53 PM, Cynique said:

What blacks really need to do is right before our eyes: Tell us, O Great Guru! What is the answer?  It is simple, My Children.  Find a way to change the color of their skin.  Because it is what attracts trouble.

@Cyniquemakes a good point.   Because our skin color is an easy target -it weakens those in power.  They  can exploit us by our skin color so it removes their ability to come up with other methods of subjugation.  For example, look at the ruling class in China - because everyone shares a similar phenotype; they had to come up with a grading system to create an underclass to make money off of -- it's ingenious.  This is why the Chinese will always be the OGs of the world.   Here, though, once we accept that our complexion hinders us - we can do like Whoopie in The Associate and work as our own secretary and send a white man in to handle our business.

17 hours ago, Troy said:

Mel, do you still go out for the evening with the 5" heels, but pack a pair of sensible flats, because you know your feet are going to be hurting before the evening is over?  Women our age are now having foot surgery to repair the damage caused by stupid shoes some white guy invented to make money -- which women buy by the closet full.

@Troy are you in the habit of lumping everyone together based on your experience with a small group? 


I have a high arch and high instep so I don't have a problem wearing high heels - yes even at our age.  Now I never wore 5 inches but I can dance all night and have in 4 inches...  I do have an hard time wearing flats for a long time - and if I have to, I rather walk barefoot.    I did find one pair of flats that I could walk in and I bought them for inflight wear. They are Softwalk - cost $100 a pair and worth every penny.  The insole is built up so it fits the natural curve of your foot (if you have one) especially if you have high arch.  I wear Asics sneakers for that reason too.  I had a boyfriend who used to tease me - and say all I needed to do was paint my foot black and no one would never know I wasn't wearing heels.

Anyway, I offer all of this because I've noticed that you seem to believe (at least based on what you write in this forum) that women lack agency and are easily influenced by everything that is put in front of us.  Based on my experience, I can assure you, women are more influenced by their community of other women -than any marketing ploy.   It's the same for the men who are interested in us.  If they want to be with us - we influence how they look and behave.  It's really all tribal... no invisible hand guiding women to do anything.   

By the way, reports indicate it was men who wore high heels first..

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I'm suprised that they consider "oral history interviews" a primary source of information.

To me, "primary" or "first hand" means YOU YOURSELF have witnessed or experienced an event.

@Pioneer1, probably because the person you're interviewing for your dissertation is the one who experienced the account firsthand.  Once you're awarded your phd and publish it then it  becomes a secondary source for those who read it.

  @Troy legally speaking what you're referring to is hearsay.  Or secondary. It was told to Zora.  It's a primary source for her and if she had to defend it she could.   None of us who are reading the book, can source everything told in the book so it's secondary for us.  Now if you go and find the brother and interview him about what he said in the book  then you return to primary source.    I read a lot of things about Issa Rae from articles that were already published - so if I wanted to use it in my article - I asked her directly and I taped our interview.  I use mostly primary sourced information but there are parts of the article that I use secondary sources - such as videos that she's appeared in. 

Eyewitnesses accounts are upheld in a court of law.  We can only rely on their testimony to be true because we didn't witness the act.  That is unless that someone is lying  -if they are found out they are charged with perjury.   If a person can't defend their dissertation with source documents then they won't get their doctorate.

3 hours ago, Troy said:

First Mel you should get to NYC more often you'll have no problem finding Black women with Blond hair. 

Thank you, for the kudos  @Troy

LOL! Now You know I was based in New York, right?  I covered 3 airports while I was there and took mass transit.  No blond weaves the whole time I was there... None in Houston either (which was surprising)  and most women I saw wore natural hair or gorgeous cuts. in  Chicago.. In fact, I loved getting my hair done in the Chi because they stylist are very talented. 

However this is what I meant by saying it may have a lot to do with who you are attracted to. You may see a lot of women with blond hair because you like it.  However when you post photos from your events there are never women with blond weaves.  As far as the Nigerian women it might have to do with peer groups - in Nigeria.  and again it's a specific group because the upper class Nigerians (the jetsetters) are conservative looking like the large groups of Nigerians in New York and Chicago. Those women are   british conservative to tribal formal for their galas.

Also I don't see any blonds here in Georgia.  Since it's "hair capital" we have everything from   "glam"  to natural.

3 hours ago, Troy said:

Also, I don't see how the covers support you point? One woman is bald the other hair straight hair. How does this reflect Black empowerment -- save Ebony (which is not a fashion magazine)

@Troy, that is the point... we are not looking to emulate anyone - we are ourselves.  And by the way, this is EBONY's fashion issue.  (remember Ebony fashion fair

3 hours ago, Troy said:

But why you can't see that a great many of your sisters are escapes me.  I'm beginning to think it is simply denial. 

I think you're correct, denial is in play.    You believe black women are impacted by european standards. but American women (of european descent)  spend boatloads of money to look like black women... So this would mean you believe black women are brainwashed into looking like european women who try to look like us?  

1 hour ago, Cynique said:

@Mel Hopkins Congrats on your EBONY cover!

Thank you, @Cynique

On 8/8/2018 at 12:21 AM, Cynique said:

This is what certain black men  prefer to think because you are stuck  in the past and religiously preserve this scenario  because it's dramatic and full of bathos  and repeated so much that has dissolved into the realm of lore.

@Cynique  Yes!  This is exactly what I thought when I read this thread... There seems to be a whole black women's narrative accented by  #blackgirlmagic movement that seems to be be passing some brothers by.  The thing is @Troy and @Pioneer1  I can't say if this is caused by your framing what's happening today with whom you are atrracted to, or who's in your comfort zone.  But most of us black women are celebrating our "free-to-be-me" looks. 

The challenge though for any of us to look through a new lens. 

I attempted to look for and see these black women who you say seem to be hating themselves because Beyonce wears blonde wigs and weaves. When I look in the retail stores, the grocery stores, restaurants, on social media, my friends, my daughters' friends, their coworkers; when I travel the world  or in the airports, I don't see any women represented in that narrative you both talk about. 

In fact, if mainstream media is snapshot of our current culture;  the biggest, most profitable issue for fashion editorial magazines is September and here's the covers from the majors.





This is what black women are raving about this month... We have taken over the covers and we are well represented all shades, hair types and body types. etc....  But what excites me even more is these black women featured on the covers are so focused on achieving their best lives ever professionally and personally that it is inspiring black women of all ages but especially our youth... 
 

I was fortunate enough to have  TWO stories in this month's EBONY ... I wrote the coverstory for (Natural hair wearing) Peabody-Award winning TV Program creator ISSA RAE and a goals segment featuring  filmmaker Nicole Franklin (page 22)...These women are self-made because they are putting in the work.    So, I could be biased but that old narrative of trying to emulate white folks and europeans is really tired and ancient - because in the words of  Kimberly "Sweet Brown" Wilkins  "Ain't nobody got time for that"

15 minutes ago, Kalexander2 said:

How many times have you, yourself acknowledged fallacies in the 'printed' reading material?

Exactly @Kalexander2 !   There are so many more locations I desire to visit (I need more courage in this case, than money) because I don't trust what most people have written.  Also, I find a lot of 'foreign' locations are just heartbreaking because I feel like all I have to do is turn the corner and be home; It is just that commercialized.  On the contrary, there are places right here in the U.S. that look like corporate america didn't touch it.   

5 minutes ago, Troy said:

Now if you read something I witnessed is what I wrote considered a "First/Primary" source?

@Troy, Yes, your eyewitness testimony is included in First/Primary source... If I interviewed you on what you witnessed it is still first/primary source.   If I use your eye-witness account that you told to a New York Times reporter that NYT published in my story for Padunk Newspaper  - it is still considered a primary source.    I just have to attribute your quote to the NYT publication. 

1 hour ago, Troy said:

I agree one's motivation, for travel and reading, is important.

@Troy  yes, motivation is key...

But it's rare that you can stumble on a book and know its intention.  Remember "The story of the lion and hunter would be different if the lion wrote it" 

So when traveling to a location even for a leisurely trip,  as I mentioned in my blog post; one may have an opportunity to touch upon several cultural perspectives first. Those can lead to looking for books on your topic of interest. 

For example, In one day,  while in Lima, I went to the beach, a popular restaurant that serves the best Ceviche'  and I visited an  erotic museum that featured 1500 year old pottery from the Moche civilization...  Just within that 24 hours I learned that the rocks on the beach dated back to the hunter-gatherer age (don't quote me I'm speaking off memory); early trade was rooted in fishing and the Moche people, Incas and Peruvians culture wasn't rooted in Christianity ... It was forced upon them. 

So I would toss any book that would say Peruvians were always Christians; big cattle ranchers and had sandy beaches. LOL.    However, If I never traveled to Peru, I wouldn't have had that information. 

Also there was some type of scuffle between the Spaniards and the Moors and it is shown in the architecture... So again then I 'd  follow up with a book that speaks of the two cultures and how they interacted with each other. 

Just like in journalism/and or researching a dissertation:  

First /Primary source: Presence, Eyewitness; oral history interviewing those who experience it; newspapers; periodicals-

Secondary source: Print Published academic  books 

That last line is great!  And the fact that porn sites are really the most visited - I'd have to say this is truth!   - 

I'm so sick of these hackers ...  the great part about sending money to that bitcoin address is it's public.  Even if dud/ette  used several addresses blockchain is public ledger ...

58 minutes ago, Troy said:

You simply can't do this on a visit.

Actually you can and I have @Troy ...

Comparing traveling to disney to learn about florida is a false equivalency... If you are visiting a spot to do the same thing you've always done in this case be entertained;  then chances are you're not going to read a non-fiction book either.   

However, if you are traveling to learn you will; and better than in any books because you will engage in the cultures... you will actually visit their architecture; and even their museums.   I learned more about the Peruvians in one day than I could ever learn in a book... BUT once I visited Peru (several times actually)... I knew what books to look for to expand my learning.    When I visited Beijing, PRC  I learned more about their currency than any one taught in the financial newspapers.     When I visited Rome, Amsterdam, Brazil - I gained a perspective on culture; agriculture, economy etc. 

When you visit a country and interact with its people first hand then when someone recommends books to you will know if those books have a specific bias to them.  Same holds true for the internet - once I visited the countries - I knew what to search for on the internet.   

In fact, I wrote about visiting countries and learning  in this blog "Stop and Smell the roses, said the white rabbit

23 hours ago, Cynique said:

preferring to rhapsodize over such subjects as there being more Moors than previously thought.

On 6/26/2018 at 3:50 PM, Wendy Jones said:

. When their indigenous mother asked her what she was doing, she replied, “I’m trying to get the dirt off.”

 

Years later when she had a daughter, of her own, the same scene was repeated.

@Wendy Jones The fact that it was repeated is troubling...It's good they started to write and publish books if for no other reason than to change their own minds.   This is a excellent illustration that  we are the first reader and customer for the books we conceive.  

As I'm reading this thread, all I can think of is "Gaslighting"!   

@Troy and @Pioneer1 it seems as if both of you agree - which really puts the onus on mainstream media.  They are exposed - no longer can they feed "educated" and "experienced" folks bullshit ... and expect us to swallow it.  

5 hours ago, Kalexander2 said:

Never bought that ‘car accident’ excuse for her murder!

@Kalexander2Nope... Me neither!  LOL!    I still think Queen Elizabeth II is straight up gansta.  I know I wouldn't cross her.   I remember shopping in London - and the taxes on my stuff equaled the cost of goods.  The queen don't play.   And one would have to wonder why her dynasty hasn't been overthrown like Ethiopia Monarchy.   

13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

MARRIAGE itself is usually a commodity and a financial agreement in THIS society as well as European, African, and Asian societies.

@Pioneer1  It is amazing that so many people don't question why they have to get a state sanctioned marriage license.  Marriage is a state-sanctioned business.  Children are (fruit of the labor) of marriage.  But so many folks are under the fairy tale impression it's because " I love him/her"  - NOPE! In fact it has nothing to do with religion either - - as some familiar with marriage laws - say the state allows G-d to be party to the marriage but here in the U.S. ; God is optional.  

19 hours ago, Cynique said:

a black woman from Howard U had recently married an Ethiopian prince

@Cynique Yes, I saw that too. According to the New York Times article, (October 13, 2017)  Joel Makonnen had dated Ariana Austin for 12 years before he admitted that he was the great-grandson of Haile Selassie, Ethiopia's emperor who was ousted (1974 ) After an civil war the monarchy was overthrown in 1991.   Makonnen is a prince without a country.  Still, the story of their wedding brought Ethiopia back into mainstream news.   

After your post, I started thinking about how stories of folks in the African diaspora don't get coverage like European diaspora  in america .   For example.  if  Ariana Austin met  Prince Yoel  in 2005; you mean to tell me, no other media knew he was living here in the U.S.  Where are the stories on him prior to his wedding?   He could only keep his identity a secret because he knew American Media wouldn't cover him. 

  @Troy  I agree we have to do better with getting media coverage for our community.  I know I've been responsible for getting my fair share of folks on record - but I'm just one journalist/media consultant.  I knew about Meghan before the world started talking about her - because I watched the first season of  suits  and I'm huge hallmark channel watcher...  I thought it was funny how they would cast her in racially ambiguous roles... and then she got all this hate mail when Suits cast Wendell Pierce as her overprotecting father.  Folks started complaining that she hid that she was black - and she  responded that she never said she wasn't black to her critics.   

But anyway; this  thread reminded me of when I pitched a story to an Essence editor in 2007 that black men were getting "snipped" (vasectomies) in record numbers - they were interested at first - then shelved it.   Ten years later, I saw a similar story in the NY Post where white men said they are getting snipped to avoid gold-diggers and child support.   Maybe if I'd pitch baby mama drama Essence would have ran with it.  

 If you tiring of hearing about Harry - and hate how every made a big deal about the wedding - blame media - especially mainstream black media. They don't want to do stories that are important to the black community, in a timely fashion.  |

(Note:  Ebony is always interested in cutting edge stories from the black community.  I've always had an easier time "selling" stories to them. )

2 minutes ago, Kalexander2 said:

You're right most anything one does for money isn't illegal, except if it to do something that impacts the integrity of laws and privileges. 

@Kalexander2 Ok, now I understand your position. In your comment above you left out the part about marrying for money to gain citizenship for yourself or someone else.   

Based on the information you've provided, I wouldn't now if that makes you a follower or even obedient to authority.   This could be one area that you feel it's wrong to take money for something you'd do for free.  There's no way I could know your threshold .    \

Besides, following rules without question is not the same as honoring one's integrity.  

2 hours ago, Kalexander2 said:

HEY, so am I a follower because I didn't abuse my citizenship by marrying for money, by following the rules?

@Kalexander2   how would you abuse your citizenship by marrying for money?  Are you a U.S. national?   Marrying for money isn't illegal in U.S. 

3 hours ago, Wendy Jones said:

I will look for cautionary tales to post about bitcoin. I don't expect anyone to be persuaded because of my skepticism without any evidence to back it up.

@Wendy Jones  T

Thank you for responding!  What exactly has you squeamish about bitcoin?  My mother says she doesn't trust anything that she can't hold in her hand. lol.  Anyway, here’s a good resource.   https://bitcoin.org/en/getting-started

Bitcoin is the original decentralized cryptocurrency.   Altcoins (alternative coins) are cryptocurrency coins that are not bitcoin.  Cryptocurrency coins can be traded (bought and sold) and stored on a cryptocurrency exchange such as Coinbase, Bitstamp, Kraken et al.   These digital transactions are secure because Blockchain technology is difficult counterfeit or hack.   Every block in the chain serves as verification for the block that came before it. 

 

If someone adds a wanky block to the chain that doesn't include the transaction information of all that came before it; it will be rejected.

Aside: this is where bitcoin mining comes in; which is a lot like a lottery because any available computer can mine bitcoin but only one will get the reward.  No one knows who will be awarded  bitcoin for processing the transaction either.   Also, there is a total of 21-million bitcoin available for mining period. 

Bitcoin (or altcoins such as Ethereum Litecoin, Bitcoin Cash) rise in value based on demand.   Yes, cryptocurrency trading is volatile.   And no, it's not regulated by a central banking system.  Decentralized means there is no middle person.  Blockchain technology is what makes bitcoin cryptocurrency possible.  After the housing crisis of 2008, the bitcoin creator wanted to make sure the world wouldn't have to depend on the central banking system ever again.  With bitcoin we don't have to - well as long as we can communicate via wireless technology.   

See this article: bitcoin without the internet

You and I can make a transaction through our digital wallets without ever involving centralized agencies.  We are virtually anonymous to the centralized banking system unless they can track us through our cryptocurrency address. 

Now, once the transaction is made; it's final.  Our transaction is subject to a mining fee - but it’s a trade between you and I.  If you say, I change my mind, oh well.  But since you and I know each other I could send you the value you sent me. -Note: The value we originally exchanged could be worth more on less on the day the new transaction is made. 

For example, I bought $5 of bitcoin - and minus the transaction fee (mining) I ended up with $4.20... at the time I'm writing this my bitcoin share value is $4.02 USD - I need to include 1 – bitcoin is currently valued at $6,146.30
,
But I digress.

There are also tokens in the cryptocurrency system and that's where it gets tricky.   Tokens are NOT cryptocurrency.  Cryptocurrency exchanges won't except tokens for trading.  

But to understand the concept of a token, consider this; a token represents something of value in the system. 

For example, in the 90s, you needed a NYC subway token to ride the train. You gave the token booth clerk $1 and s/he gave you a token coin to ride the subway.  That token had value but only in the NYC subway system. Take that token elsewhere and it isn't worth the money you paid for it. 

That's how tokens work in the cryptocurrency system.   A token is programmable digital asset that has value within the owner's system.   It can serve as a utility, equity, security or service token. For purpose of this post we'll discuss utility tokens. 

The token functions within newly created software application built on blockchain technology.  But tokens aren't mined like bitcoin or Ethereum.  A founder of a startup can sell tokens for cash or cryptocurrency to fund their cryptocurrency or technology projects. 

It appears startups such as Publica is using utility tokens. When startups sell tokens to fund their project it is called an ICO (Initial Coin Offering).  In this case, Publica is offering a Book ICO to would-be authors.    The author sets the price for the token in their crowdfunding campaign.  Once the book is finished it's published on blockchain technology. 

Patrons investing in the author's proposed book will purchase tokens with centralized cash i.e, dollars. They will receive something like a digital coupon in return.  

The author gets the cash to work on their manuscript. When the book is complete the patron will receive a copy.    

So of course, trust is factor.  We are writers/publishers not software developers building an application on blockchain technology.  We must trust that all these moving parts will add up to actual cash for us and a book for our readers. I also need more information on publishing on blockchain.  I will continue to publish updates here.

I'm new to cryptocurrency and blockchain but this represents my current understanding.  Feel free to ask me anything - but please understand this is information is not for investment purposes. It's just an overview. 

But if you choose to sign up for a Coinbase account – here’s my referral link.

https://www.coinbase.com/join/5b11cf8faa08ff01f4db26b8  Thank you!

22 minutes ago, Kalexander2 said:

OH YEAH, with or without due process, they're guilty!! 

@Kalexander2   Here  in America,  we are still have due process. We are innocent until PROVEN guilty,    And if anyone  is following the rules without question that makes them a follower who is obedient to authority,  That is the antithesis of being a leader.     I asked because your comment was sending mixed messages and I needed clarification. 

29 minutes ago, Kalexander2 said:

It's the independence, spirit, and bold determination to do what they wanted, for selfish gains or not.  They survive!!! 

YES!!! Now that's someone with the spirit of a leader.   

 

8 minutes ago, Kalexander2 said:

Now, I wouldn't want my daughter to do the same

@Kalexander2  what wouldn't you want your daughter to do?  

avoid jail, exile or other repercussions?   

And do you believe these women were guilty without due process?