Pioneer1

Troy A woke brother is exactly the type of brother who WOULD say something about it. Only an AfroAmerican man who is unconscious/sleep or unaware of the realities of how brainwashed so many of our people are into accepting Caucasian standards of beauty and how so many dye their hair blonde and put in blue eye contacts in a pitiful effort to look like who and what they aren't wouldn't notice this.

Troy She spells her name with a "gyn" to invoke the feeling of motherhood when you think of her (think "gynecology"). But she's a product of Fox News....what else would you expect from her? False concern? Crocodile tears? What concerns ME isn't her reaction to that man's murder but the LACK of reaction from the negroes down in Florida over it. He killed that man for the same reason George Zimmerman could murder Trayvon and ride around the state a free man pulling out his gun and harassing people afterwards. .....because many of our people are too stupid to demand justice. People are focused on what the White police and judges do but you have plenty of Black police officers, deputies, and state troopers down in Florida who COULD HAVE arrested both of those murderers if they had enough sense to. You had a Black man who recently ran for Governor of Florida...Gillum....who even after it was clear that there was election tampering and voter suppression he STILL conceded to a Republican for the spot. At some point you're going to have to stop getting mad at the White racists who being who THEY really are and getting mad at these silly negroes who embolden them with their stupidity and indifference.

Troy So you believe a person can be Black by simply claiming it and on that same idea they can just as easily be NOT Black simply by claiming otherwise? OK, let's play your theory out in real life.................. You wake up one day and CHOOSE not to identify as Black anymore. A person robs a liquor store. The owner tells the police it was a Black man in a red coat. The police put out an APB for a Black man in a red coat. You happen to be in that area and wearing a red coat and when the police stops you and questions you accusing you of fitting the description, do you think you could be released by that officer if you simply said: "Excuse me officer but I'm NOT Black so I don't fit that description" ????

LOl @ Troy Del But the first where the focus was on her looks more than her accomplishments. Or is this an extension of the man are too sexist thread? No, unlike Sha'Carri's hair....this is no EXTENSION (pun intended). This is Pioneer being true to his natural form.

SAY WHAT??????

She's an attractive sister.....but that blonde hair's gotta go. What up with all these sisters shamelessly wearing full blown blonde hair today?

Tariq Nasheed is my boy, but we have to be careful calling everyone who doesn't line up with our particular idealogy a "coon". Umar Johnson seems to have the same problem. For me, things aren't always Black or White, I tend to grade things on levels. Just because you aren't pro-Black and willing to speak out against racism at every opportunity that doesn't automatically make you a coon or sell-out. Don Lemon, Kobe Bryant, TD Jakes......I don't consider these men "coons". Jesse Lee Peterson and Pastor Manning....yes, I do. In my opinion you have to actively work with White racism AGAINST the Black community in order to be called a coon or sell-out. Choosing to mind your own business or do your own thing isn't enough to warrant the label.

Troy I've been to all three places in recent years and have seen zero evidence if this. St. Thomas is about half the size of Brooklyn and I was all over the territory so im pretty confident this is not the case. Ok, then I stand corrected. I've heard this was the case all over the Caribbean but if you say you haven't seen any evidence of this in your experiences then I'll accept it until proven otherwise. I know that Gail King is sexy as hell....lol. If you're in the market for somebody (and she's got SOME body).....you ain't gotta fly all the way down to the Islands, just send a few emails to Gail King and get your mack on! If she didn't mind hooking up with an ex-dope pusher like 50 Cent she SHOULDN'T mind giving a book-pusher a chance....lol.

I remember hearing about this incident. I believe the brother's girlfriend was in the car and that White man first confronted her while he was in the store. When he came out the man got in his face and he pushed him out of the way, he fell down, and then pulled out a gun and shot him. Just like the Trayvon Martin case....this has nothing to do with "standing your ground" because like George Zimmerman, this clown STARTED the conflict! Infact he has a history of picking fights with people. They said the week before he was harassing someone else over parking spots and even used racial slurs.

Ofcourse we know who this is REALLY aimed at; but like I said in the Atlanta Police thread, Alabama like Georgia is over HALF Black. The few times I've been to Alabama I've seen FAR more Black people than White. So if those negroes down there are silly enough to just sit back and allow White folks to make up laws to punish and harm them and not do a damn thing about it.....what can I say? A lot of our people act like a bunch of squirrels sitting in a damn park eating nuts. You can give all of them the right to vote, they aren't gonna use it.....just sit there munching on nuts. You can toss tools out there into the grass, but they won't use them......just sit there looking goofy munching on nuts. After while a white man might come along and round up as many as he likes, kills them and either stuff them or fry them up and make gravey out of them......and those still left in the park will STILL be sitting there in the grass munching on nuts with a goofy buck-toof look on their faces.

Troy Are you going to share with us YOUR requirements for you to consider someone Black? Or is it all they have to do is stand up and say "I'm back and I'm Black!" ......and that's enough as far as you're concerned?

FAS Let me get this clear - the portrait(s) of Queen Charlotte are of a "white" woman because the African woman appears to be mixed with European ancestry. I'm glad you're making sure because you didn't get it clear yet, lol. First, she's not African but Caucasian despite the amount of African ancestry she may have. Second, although both of them are supposedly of the same woman one of those portraits are of a Caucasian woman because in it the Caucasian features predominate and the other one in the link shows a Caucasian or possibly MIXED woman because in that picture more of her African ancestry seems to come through although the Caucasian features (light skin, thin nose and thin lips) still predominate. Again, I don't go simply by a person's ancestry because people can lie about their ancestry. I determine a person's race based on which racial features DOMINATE and if they have a close to even mixture of both then they are MIXED RACE....plain and simple. Not complicated at all. Isn't that using the "one drop rule" on your part? One drop of white blood and you're white? No. One drop of Caucasian blood doesn't make you a Caucasian because MOST AfroAmericans have atleast some Caucasian ancestry and most of us....although MIXED...are clearly not Caucasian. But on the other side of the same coin one drop of African blood doesn't make you African either. My overall point is that WE as AfroAmericans should be setting OUR OWN standards of who should or shouldn't be considered Black instead of using standards invented by Caucasians hundreds of years ago to keep their race "pure". Which is one of the reason I usualy use the terms "Caucasian" and "African" instead of White and Black which are also misleading and confusing. Troy Before we continue with this issue, what is YOUR standard and requirements for who should or shouldn't be considered Black?

FAS I don't know you or your background but perhaps you're suprised because you're used to people with ANY Black ancestry or ANY type of hue to their skin, kink to their hair, or fullness to their lips being just thrown into the "Black" category. That's the way it's done in the United States. But different cultures and nations have different ways of classifying their populations and if this were Brazil that same woman would be classified as something OTHER than Black and more like an Octaroon. In Spain or Italy she would probably be considered just another White citizen as opposed to the Africans who they call Negro/Black. Only in English speaking societies like the United States, Canada, and parts of the Caribbean like Jamaica are people with ANY African ancestry thrown into the "Black" category ignoring any other racial ancestry they may have. You can be half Native American or half East Asian also but if one parent is Black...in America you're called Black. They ignore the other parts....lol. Now, I hope I'm not just typing just to hear the tapping sound of the keyboard. Rather than posting a few opinions and then disappearing into the ether; maybe you'll stick around a while and contribute further to this conversation and others, lol. Troy Lol, how can a VICTIM of racism be a racist at the same time? Actually -Mr. Engineer- I'm looking at things from a LOGICAL and SCIENTIFIC perspective, instead of using artifial rules and social standards (like that "one drop" garbage) that the Caucasian oppressors GAVE our people to further confuse them. Unlike the rules YOU may use (because you still haven't told us how you identify who is Black and who is not) or the rules this society has forced on our people for generations.....my rules are based on NATURE. It's simple....you're only Black (I prefer the term African because there are really 2 "Black" races) if your FEATURES (skin color, hair texture, nose, lips, ect....) are African in nature. Everything doesn't have to be 100%.....but the MAJORITY of your features must be in line with those of African people. There are SOME "high yellow" people I would consider Black and some I wouldn't, depending on how many other African features they have.

Because I believe in telling the truth. I know you don't believe in the concept of race, so I'm not sure what your standard of being Black is......but as for me you must LOOK like a Black person in order to be considered one. I don't care what your parents or grandparents were. You must have the PHENOTYPE. She's just a Caucasian woman with SOME African ancestry, like most Italians and Spaniards. If you want to call HER "Black" then you might as well call most Italians, Greeks, and Spaniards "Black" because they probably have just as much African ancestry in their genetics as Charlotte.

This woman is no more "Black" than Oprah Winfrey is White. Charlotte wasn't Black, Meghan Markle isn't Black, and her baby SURE ain't Black. If this madness of labeling everybody suspected of having just a trace of African ancestry "Black" doesn't end, in a few generations you'll have blonde haired blue eyed people running the HBCUs and getting minority loans and calling themselves "Black" while REAL Black folks will be......

　 I'm not sure if I made myself clear but I'm actually looking for OPPOSITION to my argument that accuses Black men of being sexist. If I don't get enough counter-argument in this thread I'll do another one in SUPPORT of Donald Trump. Troy I'm in St. Thomas USVI as I write this and the sisters are kicking butt here -- running thangs! Boy I'll tell ya, for a BROKE brutha you sho' do get around...lol Mainland Americans may be a bit defective... some more than others. Any perceived sexism by men here is a function of the oppression or being the oppressor. Perhaps, or maybe that's just an EXCUSE men use to justify and continue to practice their sexism even after they have been made aware of it. We've heard the same excuses about crime. -that crime in our community was a bi-product of oppression and economic deprivation, but every individual has a CHOICE. The soft-shoe sexism as well as the outright physical abuse that Black men have historically exhibited against Black women in the States as well as in the Carribean is not rooted in THEIR oppression so much as it's rooted in THEIR misplaced agression, substance abuse, and general miseducation about gender roles and what being a "man" means....whatever it means. Speaking of Black women in the Virgin Islands, one thing we know is happening down there as well as in other Carribean communities like Jamaica and Barbados is that many of the Black women are suffering from the negative health effects of using bleaching cream and hair relaxers. Why? Because most of the men in those societies have told them in so many words that to be seen as beautiful or to even be NOTICED you must make yourself look as much like a white woman as you can even if it literally KILLS you. 　 　 Del Are there a lot of stores run by Arabs and Puerto Ricans? Speaking as a feminist....... What difference does the ethnicity of these store owners make if they are providing much needed commodities and services to women and children that many local Black men are unwilling or unable to provide? *That was a good question you asked Troy btw. I would have asked him the same question myself because I heard Arabs are running a lot of businesses down in the Carribean.....but I'm not my usual self right now. I'm a feminist...lol.

I'm a little disappointed with the AfroAmerican leadership in Atlanta in general. The Atlanta area is an AfroAmerican METROPOLIS and a power house of Black economic, academic, and political influence....yet those negroes down there sit up and let racist Caucasians in the Republican party RULE over Georgia with an iron fist. I don't understand it. The South itself is nearly half Black in terms of population, yet the racist Republican party wields so much political influence down there it's unbelievable. How in the hell are they STILL able to fly the Confederate battle flag in places like Georgia and Mississippi and even have it in their state flags with all those millions of Black folks down there.....unless many of them are just dumb as hell.

I'm sorry to hear this. I don't recall any exchanges with the brother, but I did hear Troy mention him from time to time. I hope he's at peace right now.

It felt good arguing in FAVOR of a position I'm actually against, so I decided to take up another one. I'm not a feminist, but I'll attempt.....for argument's sake....to take the position of Black feminists or womanists and say that Black men are just too sexist. When it comes to sisters wearing their hair naturally, the greatest opposition Black women face doesn't come from White men in the work place who usually know better than to make a comment.....but from Black men at home and in the community who often times don't want to date a "natural" woman and are often very blunt about making this known. I've also noticed that the only time most Black men are willing to stay at home and help do the dishes, clean the house, and watch the children is when he's UNEMPLOYED and doesn't have much of a choice.....outside of that, most brothers grow up thinking it's the woman's job to do this instead of a shared responsibility. Finally we have Jay-Z .....a Black rapper (among thousands of others) has MADE A LIVING calling women bitches and ho's and bragging about how he has sex with them and uses them and even proudly refers to himself as "pimp". His reward for this near lifetime of misogynistic behavior is his recently being crowned raps first BILLIONAIRE. Can not Black men see that many of them are (and have been since before the ending of slavery) treating Black women with the same contempt and disrespect that they so furiously condemn Whites, Asians, and others for showing them? Lauryn Hill once famously said: How you gonna win if you ain't right within?

Troy It depended upon how you define "financially secure?" I'm sure you'd agree it is a FAR cry from the ministers who have private jets, a fleet of cars, and huge mansions. Maybe THAT'S what they needed for THEM to feel secure and that they've attained THEIR goal or blessing. Perhaps the minister with the mansion may have grew up in a shack and swore that if he ever we blessed to "make it" he would buy the biggest mansion he could afford. Perhaps another was a little boy who couldn't even afford a bike to ride but would look up at planes flying over his head and promised himself he'd own one of THEM one day. Just because YOU don't want these things why condemn them for wanting to live out their dream? Isn't it a BLESSING to live out your dreams? Yes, I've seen a broke brother who was happy and at peace. I'm one. That does not mean that I don't have challenges, like everyone else, but I know money can't bring happiness. MAN SHUT UP YOU KNOW YOU AIN'T BROKE....lol. My argument is against though that exploit their congregations for monetary gain To "exploit" means to ab-use or use incorrectly. To take advantage of. If they are voluntarily giving those preachers their money and getting emotional satisfaction as well as what they BELIEVE to be spiritual satisfaction., hope, and happiness from that church.....is it really exploitation? These people are getting HOPE and HAPPINESS (a few of your precious values you spoke of) from that man and his church! So perhaps it's fair exchange Kind of like how a patient pays their counselor for comforting conversation and good advice. often imporveshing these hapless victims -- who were just seeking peace and spiritual enlightenment. I'll be honest with you...... I honestly don't know anyone who BECAME poor from dealing with a lying pimping preacher. Most of those who ARE poor and giving money to these types were ALREADY poor and poorly educated to begin with so they didn't have a hell of a long way to fall. But again, what you may be missing is the fact that many of these people are receiving EMOTIONAL satisfaction and hope....not to mention a place to socialize and meet friends and potential marriage partners....one of the main reasons many people go to church for in the first place. Perhaps you are focusing too much and putting too much responsibility on the preachers and what THEY should be doing and not enough on these people and what they're GETTING already in return. The vast majority of these followers are adults who are NOT retarded can clearly make their own decisions as to how to spend their money. You (and Harry....lol) act as if these preachers are breaking into elementary schools and brainwashing children into signing contracts and stealing their lunch money. These are adults who are doing what they do for their own personal reasons whether we agree with them or not. I can't BELIEVE I'm sitting up here trying to defend these jack-legs....lol. But it's a fun excercise! I may take the opposite side of another argument I don't necessarily agree with just for the fun of it.

Troy So.... you believe White folks are trying to destroy the black community with alcohol, tobacco, the feminization of men and other things because they are largely immune to these things? Well....... Let us set to the side who I "believe" is behind these problems that you mentioned. Let us also set to the side who else is being negatively affected by those problems. The FACT is......those problems that you mentioned like drugs, alcohol, and sexual confusion ARE causing massive destabilization in many BLACK communities both in America and abroad regardless as to it's source. Would you not agree? Your argument seems to be, as long as it negatively affects them also....they can't be the source of it. As if murder-suicide doesn't exist. We could combat this by going on the offense. Let's start by denying climate change and increase our carbon foot prints. The increased exposure to the sun would give white folks skin cancer. We could kill all the cows so that they would die of calcium deficiency. We could stop play sports and making music and they would die from boredom. We could all become opioid dealers and let them all OD -- and become rich at the same time Lol, before doing all that you might wanna start by doing something Martin L. King and Malik Shabazz tried to do -first UNITE Black people and get them to do something without arguing and squabbling among eachother.

Troy Dude you are really fixated on financial wealth as one if life's ultimate goals huh? There is also health, happiness, spirituality, peace, and other things that money can't buy. These are some of the things that a spiritual leader should help others obtain. Health, happiness, and peace are PART of one's wealth.....along WITH being finanically secure. Have you ever seen a BROKE brutha who was happy and at peace? A broke ass nigga is liable to destroy himself, you, and anybody else crazy enough to live around him....lol. You say money can't by these things but a sick person who can't afford to buy their medicine or pay for their operation may beg to differ with you. Money is an important COMPONENT of a wholistic life of success and happiness. Now I'm not defending them or their behavior, nor would I give them money, but I'm entertaining the counter-argument some may offer you.......... The Christian preacher may argue back that he IS trying to help others attain those values that you listed by pushing the message to his congregation that if they would simply put their faith in and accept Christ, THEY TOO will attain wealth, happiness, spirituality, everlasting life, ect..... But YOUR argument isn't against his message or it's validity, but against his LIFESTYLE. Could it be that your FOCUS is off? Could it be that instead of focusing on how the messenger is living, shouldn't the focus be on the validity of the message itself and whether or not the adherents of "the word" are attaining the own success? If my goal is to become spiritually at peace and the pastor of the church I go to helps me to attain that....why should I concern myself with how big HIS house is or how nice HIS car is? I'm just saying........ For agument's sake ofcourse, lol.

Troy But everthing you wrote is being done in the white community too -- argurable moreseo. I don't see how you can justify that this happening solely to destroy Black people. White people have been drinking alcohol for thousands of years and some of the biggest drunks in Europe's history were able to rule kingdoms, lead militaries, build great buildings.....ect. They introduced the Native Americans to alcohol and within a few generations it DESTROYED their civilizations, their family structures, and to this very day many of them are still livng on reservations suffering from poverty, suicide, and other negative effects from alcoholism. Just because White people engage in a particular behavior and it doesn't seem to harm them doesn't mean it's good for us or anyone else besides them.

Troy It's not a conspiracy, they are openly promoting transgenderism in the media as well as in politics and aiming it toward people of color. They're passing laws to acknowledge it and the main stream media in both commercials as well as in the news is promoting it. There is no need to find and destroy people who are clearly more powerful than you. You can look for them, but when you find them what can you as an individual do to defeat them? Nearly every person of color of atleast average intelligence is aware of White Domination on some level either consciously or subconsciously and have their own ways of dealing with it. Some actively fight against it, and others go along with it and try to get as much benefit as they can out of a system they feel they can do nothing about. It's like a little kid living in an abusive household......when Daddy is drunk and angry you learn to stay out of his way and survive as best you can and HOPE he doesn't kill you before you get old enough to leave that situation. Nothing is guaranteed, but if you can pass along helpful information to help your brothers or sisters and keep THEM from getting hurt or killed that would be the correct thing to do.

Troy But neither the Bible nor Christian theology claims the goal of Jesus WAS to be wealthy. According to Christian theology, the goal of Jesus was to come to die for the sins of humanity.....not acquire wealth. And if the Bible is correct then he accomplished HIS goal/mission. But that was the goal/mission for HIM......not his preachers, ministers, other Christians, or even the disciples. The goal of most people.....Christian or not.....is NOT to die for the sins of humanity but to be wealthy and successful. Preachers are human beings and besides other desires most of them want wealth and prosperity like everyone else. So if wealth is atleast ONE of their goals.....and they're accomplishing it.....then wouldn't that success be a major sign of them actually being blessed? Further, if I were a Christian and saw my pastor accumulating huge amounts of wealth that was being GIVEN to him and was successful in his ministry and I saw no evidence that he was breaking any Christian rules, should I not take that as evidence of him being blessed and be encouraged to follow his lead in hopes I may enjoy similar blessings and successes? Why should I condemn him and bash him for living a life that he promised we WOULD enjoy if we joined his church and accepted his message? If anything, I would look at the poor preacher and wonder why I should follow him.