Pioneer1

Tanny 　 I framed my proposal in the context of education because that's something most whites can support. An education voucher tends to shift the focus of reparations from "pay for your crimes!" to "let's educate the nation". In the first case whites are painted as villains, in the later they can see themselves playing the role of hero. My argument here is tactical, not moral. I know exactly what you're saying. You're looking for something tangible that you think White America can hold it's nose and swallow to help Black people. However it's going to be hard to "out smart" racist right wing politicians who can smell any type of attempt toward social justice 5 miles away. As soon as you can come up with ideas to right the wrongs of society they'll come up with ideas to counter them. When Black people came up with the idea of leaving the South to come North and work in the factories to make good money, they shipped the factories overseas and destroyed the inner cities. You come up with a plan to give all Black people free eduation at all universities....in 20 years they'll SHIP THE UNIVERSITIES OVERSEAS to Europe...lol. Then you'll have to travel to Paris or London or Berlin to attend a university.....which means you'll have to get a pass port and be allowed in the country and then you'll need a sponsor and someone to take you in as a border....so the discrimination will start all over again, lol. I'm not saying all of this to discourage you, I'm saying it so that you will think ahead and be prepared.

Tanny This would be true if we were talking level playing field. But that's never existed in America. Blacks have been systemically denied the resources necessary to educate themselves with their own institutions, in the way you seem to be implying. You're right to a certain extent. But there have been so many examples of Blacks who have defied the odds and have built their own institutions to educate their children in a more productive way.....Marcus Garvey, Elijah Muhammad, and hundreds of other individuals......and were successful with it SHOULD HAVE inspired more Black people to work themselves out of this plight. But it hasn't...and that's a bit depressing. 　 My suggestion has been to go to white people and ask them to return at least some of the money that's been stolen from blacks. Again, 20% of Americans own 90% of America's wealth. We still live in a plantation system, it's just become far more sophisticated than the old days. If you're talking about your educational initiative, I think it would be more effective, more fair, and even more popular among the vast majority of people if you sought this money from the GOVERNMENT of the United States rather than wealthy White individuals (whether you're asking for it in grants or by some sort of progressive tax). The federal government has more than enough money to fund any type of educational program without running the risk of pissing off rich White people by burdening them with someone else's responsibility. Wealth is better of being GENERATED rather than RE-DISTRIBUTED. K2 Yes, and no, Pioneer1, independent living by a separate code does not mean "doing as the romans." In fact, I can mean just the opposite. We don't to adopt White ways of living. We did just fine before we were brought here; we can do it again. Only this time there's more competition for State power and less will power. If America lived up to the Constitution it established, we would be able to freely do this. But today there are so many laws and codes and restrictions telling people what they can and can't do that it's hard for a people to govern themselves with their own basic social and economic codes. For example..... We know that our children were much better behaved and respectful when parent and teachers were allowed to give them whoopings from time to time; but now that has been outlawed and many of these children have gone buck wild as a result. Another example is polygamy..... I believe the Black family would repair itself in one or two generations if responsible and qualified Black men were allowed to take on multiple wives to support them and the children they produced.....but it's illegal. Black men are forced into monogamy against their nature and are pretty much forced to sleep around and cheat and lie on their wives and girlfriends....make more chaos in the Black community. But these are examples of how the laws of this society prevent Black folks from organizing codes that would give us a very strong community.

K2 I have to be careful not to say ALL Black women or even Black women in general when I make certain statments and focus my subject on AFROAMERICAN women in specific. I've noticed that AFRICAN women from the continent of Africa tend to be totally different. I've dated a few African women (if you want to call it that....lol) and they seem to love it when a man makes the money and takes charge and even seem to expect it. What do I want to see changed? People, all of them; female, male, Black, White, young old, whatever gender get what they need for their survival. I want to see that too. However the question is WHO WILL THE GET IT FROM? In other words......... Everyone needs housing, but not everyone can build their own house! Everyone needs food, but not everyone can grow and prepare their own food! Everyone needs clothing, but not everyone knows how to make their own clothes! Everyone needs medical care from timt to time, but not everyone knows medicine! The people who have the knowledge to PROVIDE these things are the ones who will be in power whether we like this or not.

I would like it if all of the poor and working class in every race could work together to solve the problems of poverty and other economic injustices, but it's been my observation over the years that many POOR White people are content being poor as long as they are allowed to practice racism. In other words, it doesn't matter if they're living in a trailer park with no healthcare and no teeth in their mouth and can barely eat......... As long as there are no Black people or Mexicans around, they're happy as hell and see no need to complain. Many poor White people and especially poor White men feel this way. This may sound ridiculous to you but it's very true in a lot of cases. Their biggest fear isn't poverty or not being able to pay for an operation they need to save their life.....it's a Black man sleeping with their wife or daughter, lol. Another thing I've noticed is that a lot of poor and working class Whites have a "it's my duty to be poor and not complain about it" mentality. I've worked around poor White men who wore raggedy tennis shoes and only had one pair of pants and t-shirt and the only thing they lived for was to smoke cigarettes, drink beer, and work. If you talked to them about demanding higher wages or better healthcare they'd get angry with you and accuse you of being a Communist or Socialist....lol. They felt it was just the "right thing to do" to be poor, work their ass off, and not complain. Many took pride in it and would berate eachother for complaining about anything. "Oh stop yer bitchin' and yer moanin' and be a man!!!" It's hard trying to reason with people with that type of mentality and it took me years to discover how many actually exist who think like this. This is one of the reasons Trump got elected. They didn't vote for him for what he would DO FOR THEM. They knew he wouldn't do anything for them. They voted for him for what he promised to DO TO OTHERS (lock them up, deport them, ect....)!!

K2 Somebody's been doing their homework!! True, Pioneer1, but the "blushing man" ...or "White man" are just part of a larger meaning. "Pure man," is generally accepted as the actual meaning, not an interpretation or translation. But one must understand the language and usage. True, I'm still learning, but learning nonetheless. I haven't heard the "pure man" interpretation but I both the Hebrew and Arabic word for blood is "dam". The word "A-dam" means "show-blood" another term for BLUSHING. Perhaps "pure" is translated from a word similar to "transparent". When your skin is devoid of melanin it becomes transparent and you can see through it and see the blood. The Hebrew, Arabic meaning for White is an illness, deceased. Although, the modern day interpretation of white is also purity, white wedding dress, etc. e.g., Moses frighten Pharoh when he placed his hand in his garment and took it out white, etc. I've heard that the disease translated as "leprosy" in the Bible is actually VITILIGO...the skin disease that turns your skin and hair white. That could be the case. Ofcourse this society will consider Whiteness a sign of purity because of who dominates it. Malcolm X was introduced to this concept when he was in prison and started reading the dictionary and noticed that all of the good wonderful qualities were associated with Whiteness but when it came to bad qualities they were described as Black, dark, gloomy, ect...lol. I remember reading about a tribe in Africa where when someone died and the village mourned.....they didn't wear Black like people do in the West....they were White and paint their faces White as a sign of mourning because they believe White is the color of death.

Tanny I don't see how smart has anything to do with it. In America there have always been more whites than blacks. And that numerical advantage was used to create an economic system designed to steal black labor and Indian land. In both cases it wasn't because whites were smarter, it was because they had more people and more guns. Whites didn't always have the numbers. The Indians had the land AND the numbers but the White men still came in and literally TOOK both. And it's not like the Indians (Native Americans) were too peaceful to wage war or fight back.....many did....but still lost. So some would argue that it's an example of Whites being smarter. White folks HAD guns because they INVENTED the guns, lol. ...and the cannons and tanks and other things they were able to use to defeat their opposition in America and parts of Africa. Their technological advances.....in my opinion...was in part a result of intelligence. 　 If you took ANY population and denied them education and opportunity for centuries, then sure, there will be some in that population who essentially give up. That's not a black thing, that's a human thing. As example, there are plenty of poor whites who have given up and made peace with living on welfare in the trailer park. I hear exactly what you're saying and I'm inclinded to agree with you except......... If Black people were as smart as they should be they wouldn't have to RELY on White people to provide education to them, we'd simply educate OURSELVES with OUR OWN institutions. Russians can produce their own food, make their own clothes, and build houses for themselves.....they don't have to rely on America or England to GIVE them money or provide them with an education to help them.......so why do so many Black people around the world do? The fact that you have to GO TO White people and ask them to educate you means they have knowledge that you don't have. Now how did they GET that knowledge? Keep in mind..... I'm not trying to justify INJUSTICE, nor am I trying to play devil's advocate. But at this stage in my life and looking at what I'm seeing with Black people all over the world, I must atleast try to see things AS THEY ACTUALLY ARE rather than just how I would like them to be. Ofcourse Divine assistance is priority, but Black people need to figure out how to make themselves smarter

K2 Every society of every age have practiced male dominance over females. The question is, can that ever be changed? To ANSWER your question..... I don't think so because by our very natures men have more testosterone and this makes us more aggressive and more dominant. Estrogen makes women more nurturing and submissive. This is just basic biology so unless the chemistry of human beings change, I doubt the roles will. However I believe that women can and should BE TREATED MUCH BETTER in this world than they have been and currrently are. However to pose ANOTHER question...... I would ask you, do we really want it to change? Based on my interactions with MOST women....I don't think most of them really WANT to be in a leadership or ruling position. They just don't want to be abused. Most of them seem to have an innate nature of wanted to be "taken care of" and protected by a man. Not all....but most.

K2 Not because they are White, wealthy, nor even more intelligent; they will rule because there's no concern for consequences; they will do whatever it takes to survive. While we Black folk are limited only by our own failure to be independent and develop our own code of conduct. Unfortunately some may say...... The reason why Black folks are limited by their own failures to be independent and develop their own codes is just another example of WHAT MAKES White people more intelligent. Some may say that if we were as SMART as they were then we'd be DOING it ike they were.

You can start with the Book of Genesis and the deceptive way it was translated. The Hebrew word "Adam" actually means "blushing man"....or White man.

K2 Maybe, Pioneer1, I don't believe Obama would have enacted or pushed for such legislation even with diligent lobbying. He's politician and even his party would have treated him like shit had he considered it. Believe or not, most Black professionals are against reparations too. Obama had the intelligence and charisma to push anything he wanted to. He CHOSE not to push for anything of substance that would benefit the Black community and Black people CHOSE not to push him into doing so...so both are at fault. Most Black professionals are against reparations because: 1. They don't really need it so they don't care about those who do. 2. Many got to where they are because they feel they are exceptionally smart or talented and they feel reparations may put too many "undeserving" people on their level. I think I mentioned on this site before "The Hidden Curriculum" program that teaches Black children to be servants while prepping White children to be managers and leaders. Yeah. They are called "Montessori schools". These schools teach mostly White children how to be independant thinkers while the public schools teach you how to fall in line and obey orders. Tanny 1) What's the price tag on that? A serious study would have to be done to figure this out. 　 2) Who pays? Every government and institution that ever participated or benefited from it. 3) How about American Indians? AfroAmerican reparations would have to be done SEPERATELY from them, but they definately need to get a PROPER form of reparations for what they went through. Some would argue that what the Native Americans went through was actually worse than what the African went through. But again, their issue would have to be done seperately. 　 4) If reparations were paid to your satisfaction, are blacks willing to then drop complaints against whites? Lol, ofcourse not..... That's like saying once a murder is solved, we should close down the police department and not complain or call them for any other problems......everything is solved, lol. Racism is an ON-GOING human behavior of which slavery was just an extreme form of. But racism didn't end when slavery or Jim Crow ended. And nor should it's confrontation. Troy The liberal arts including history are treat like a waste of time I agree. I actually think it's just an excuse for universities to make more money by keeping students at their institution a couple years longer.

　 Tanny This may not be a peaceful process. There are a minority of whites who will resist with enthusiasm, including violence. They will be afraid that blacks and browns will do to them what whites have long done to blacks and browns. The idea that America is a white country is deeply rooted in white culture. Whatever happens the future is not going to be like the past. Whites will not continue to dominate while gradually extending rights and benefits to minorities, that model is coming to an end. 　 Because America is going to be majority people of color, I think what many Whites are preparing to to is RULE AS A MINORITY. When you rule as a majority you can be a little lax and easy going because you have such overwhelming numers, but when you're a minority you have to be more aggressive with the people you plan on ruling over because you don't have enough numbers to be "nice". So if you look at Whites in South Africa or the White minority that rules many countries in Latin America.....yes they rule by keeping the people under them divided. In South Africa the White minority ruled by keeping the "coloureds" divided from the Zulu. In Latin America the small Spanish Whites rule by keeping the Indians separate from the Meztizo and Mulatto. Keep them all fighting eachother over limited resources and compete with eachother over who can get closest to the White ruler to enjoy some wealth and power.

I'm not saying that the women are innocent and clean. And ofcourse White men do what Bill has done and MUCH WORSE on a regular basis. Harvey Weinstein and the rest of those Hollywood men being accused have YET to stand trial for their alleged crimes. But Bill Cosby is NOT White. And if he KNOWS he's not White and knows he will not be able to get away with what they do....then why even try it? It's like a Black kid selling dope and when he get's caught and arrested he's yellling and shouting, "See....see....dat ain't right cuz' dem White boys sell all types of acid and meth and shit but yall ain't arrestin' dem!!!" .....and he's saying it as he's being handcuffed and they're pushing his nappy head down into the back of the police cruiser. Wrong is wrong. You can't justify the wrong you're doing by pointing the finger at White folks and what they're allowed to get away with. Bill Cosby was a multi-millionaire through out most of his life. He had more than enough money to fly around this planet and BRING BACK all the women he wanted to have sex with without breaking any type of law and he would have been well within his rights to do so. Instead he chose to get tricky with these White women and now has to give them half his money. It's the same with Tiger Woods and all the foolishness he's been through. If the man was a sex addict, why in the hell would he get married in the first place? He had millions of dollars to fly around the world and have sex with as many women as he chose without the liablitity of marriage and divorce; yet for some dumb reason he felt compelled to marry a White woman who was cleaning his house and let her make a fool out of him by divorcing him and now SHE'S got half his money. It's that WHITE WOMAN MAGIC that drives some of these negroes stone damn crazy to the point the lose all common sense!! And Serena Williams is gonna end up making the same mistake.

If what I read was the review, I'm not sure why any Black person would be "offended" by it. It basically gives a brief on the troubled background of one of BLM's co-founders. Now me personally, I am a bit EMBARASSED by the book itself because it appears to be just another portrayal of a severely dysfunctional and immoral Black family and Black neighborhood in America. Something we really don't need right now. I would think that if she put this book out about how dysfunctional her childhood was and how anti-social and immoral many of the people in her family and community are with all of their dysfunctions and vices......she should realize how it probably could be used by the police to JUSTIFY the treatment of so many Black people. In other words...... If Ms Cullors puts out a book telling the world how stupid and crazy and criminal the Black people in her family and drug-infested neighborhood was growing up......then don't get too angry at the police for gunning down and locking up so many of the people IN that community.

Excellent question...... Which is why I'm not too crazy about running to Cosby's defense. This may indeed be a set up and conspiracy to take advantage of him and break him financially and otherwise; however IF (and I say "if" because I wasn't there) it's true that he drugged women to sexually abuse or assault them, then that would make him a rapist and adulterer and I can't really get behind somebody like that. All I can say about the issue is I hope the entire truth comes out and then I can form a more educated opinion on the matter.

K2 Yeah, say what you like, but a human being will survive, by any means necessary. Even if it takes destroying his own. I am not optimist about the future of America or of Black folk. Though I do wish we would come to our senses and live the opposite of White folks. The first step in realizing this dream is to have the DESIRE. Most Black people in America don't have the DESIRE to live independently. Most rely on White people for their food, clothing, shelter, and medical care......and they like it that way. As much as Chinese and other East Asians skin and grin at White people, they spend their time LEARNING from them so that they can live independently FROM them. Most Black folks do the opposite: Cry and complain about how White people are treating them but take no steps to separate and build something of their own. Because many have been made MENTALLY LAZY. Tanny Republicans will soon start trying to divide blacks from Hispanics because that will be the only way they can continue to rule. If you don't already know, I have a little news for you.....lol. Republicans don't have to TRY to separate Blacks from Hispanics, because most non-Black Hispanics have done a pretty good job of doing that ALREADY. If you look around this nation, except for a few enclaves on the East Coast that have a large Afro-Latino population......for the most part Hispanics live in seperate communities from AfroAmericans and have little to do with us socially, politically, and economically. The sad fact is, most non-Black groups in this nation are focused on THEMSELVES and not really interested in true unity and friendship with other people of color.

The Nation of Islam has it's issues but I see more positive effects from them than I see from BLM. If you want to look at it from a conservative point of view. While BLM protests the treatment of Black people by the police, the Nation of Islam tries to condition them morally and socially so that they will not have to encounter the police to begin with. In other words....... If Devonte is out at 2 am in the morning drinking and acting a fool with his friends and ends up getting shot 40 times by racist cops who thought his cell phone was a gun.....THEN Black Lives Matter comes out to protest his unjust killing. But the Nation of Islam will try to get Devonte to stop drinking and hanging out late at night so that the racist cops won't have an excuse to kill him in the first place.

They CAN'T live on it which is why they either mooch off relatives, or they engage in illegal activities like drug dealing, theft, and prostitution. Which gives Republicans the excuse they wanted to lock them up in the first place.

K2 Black people COULD HAVE gotten reparations under Obama if we had played our cards right. All we needed was an agenda to present to him like all the other groups. It wouldn't have taken 500 Black professionals to sit down somewhere in Atlanta or D.C. and whip up a plan to present to Obama on his inauguration day about what they expect from him....but they didn't do it. Infact, we could get a whole lot more out of Trump than we're getting....if we were smart enough. Besides nature has its way of weeding out the weak, those unable to survive living a fair life This is true, but the problem is we aren't living under a NATURAL system. We are living in a synthetic system where artifical people and artificial values are elevated and promoted as ideal while that which is natural is often demonized or portrayed as primitive. Also the system is constantly modified and manipulated to produce certain results. This is what happens in most public schools in Western society. Masculine boys who are aggressive, good in sports, and chase girls trying to have sex with as many as they can......as nature intended.....are called thugs and trouble makers and kicked out only to end up dead or in jail. Meanwhile the shy nerdy and effeminate boys who don't want sex and aren't aggressive in any way are praised as "ideal guys" and usually do good in school and go far in the academic world and eventually make a lot of money and marry the women of their choice. I'm no scientist, but I believe one of the reasons autism is so high today is because a lot of "off" men who nature didn't intend to reproduce their genes are getting married and making babies.

The Bible is a "code book". Most of the stories you read in it are what's called MYTHS. A myth is a SYMBOLIC STORY that is used to cover up or conceal the real story which is only known to those with special knowledge to "decode" it and find out the truth. Most of the leaders of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism know the truth of the scriptures and what they really mean. The Pope knows the truth. They just give the common people the myths and religious dogmatism to keep them occupied and under control while they share the wealth among themselves.

K2 I hear what you're saying about letting Black people have the same thing other people are allowed to have and not be too judgmental. However 2 things to keep in mind: 1. We're talking about reparations; something theoretically ONLY AfroAmericans will be getting anyway; so it's not like everyone else will be getting the same benefit we'd be getting. 2. While there are many.....millions.....of responsible mature Black people, too many are SELF DESTRUCTIVE. If you just hand over a million dollars or just 100 grand to them they will not only enjoy themselves but they will DESTROY themselves through their own vices. A crack head will become a worse crack head. A drug dealer will only try to become bigger baller with his windfall. An alcoholic now has PLENTY of money to buy enough liquor to drown himself in On and on, so forth and so forth...... It's not just a matter of denying them what they're due....it's a matter of SAVING THEIR LIFE. Hell, you don't even have a good hand full of BLACK BANKS to put the money in even if you got it. What AfroAmericans as a community will first need is a proper KNOWLEDGE OF SELF. A reasonable amount of our people need to be cleaned up from their self-hatred and their self destructive ways FIRST.....then they will be in proper shape to receive some money. Reparations isn't simply a one time act, it's a process that will take generations.

There's something about this "Black Lives Matter" movement that makes me a little suspicious of it's origin and intentions. First of all, I have no problem with them being women but why are the founders Lesbian and Bisexual? Secondly, from what I see on television more White people are participating in these demonstrations than Black people which makes me wonder how much effort they're really putting into actually mobilizing the Black community. Also, their methods of blocking traffic and causing social agitation seems to do more harm than good because it pretty much pisses off the public. The police are the one's who did the wrong, so why shut down the sports arena and disrupt games or shut down the freeway and keep people from getting home to see their families? I liken THEIR methods to Colin Kaepernick's who thinks kneeling is will be effective....... Not only are you NOT being effective, but you're actually pissing otherwise neutral people off and making more enemies.

K2 You can't "prove" history unless by some Divine assistance you are taken back into time in another realm. The only thing I can tell you on the issue is that not only are the Jews White, the Israelites White, but Adam was White also. That Bible you read wasn't made for YOU, it was made for the Caucasian race and it tells them their history.....not yours.

Tanny I think this is a noble idea and I salute you for trying to come up with a solution to solve the problems plaguing so many of our young people but I'm gonna have to side with the others and disagree with the plan for a number of reasons. 1. EDUCATION IS PART OF THE PROBLEM. I'm not talking about TRUE education that teaches people how to read, write, math, and think logically and critically. I'm talking about this cultural brainwashing going on in most of the the schools and universities in the United States that ruins the esteem of Black youth by: -teaching them they accomplished very little as a race and are infereior to White people -teaching them in a heavily left brained manner that most Black people don't learn in -punishing Black males for being male so that most of them drop out from frustration -controlling and limiting the way they think and killing their innovation and training them to think like White people. Even if the educational system were totally free, the way it's structured today would be like sentencing our people to psychological suicide. 2. You want to force the wealthy to pay for this. It's not the RESPONSIBILITY of the wealthy to pay for the eduation of anyone else except their own children. Forget that little 60 billion you're asking for, this government has TRILLIONS of dollars are their disposal. They've wasted 10 Trillion playing war games in the sands of the Middle East since 2001.....let the government do their damn job and pay for this like Troy said. It also makes enemies by pitting wealthy people of all races against AfroAmericans. Everytime a wealthy person of any race sees an AfroAmerican they will feel resentment and some will even feel hatred for being forced to pay of his education. Since the goverment has trillions of dollars for everything else, let them fund this. How old are you, by the way? Troy It's about time I start agreeing with you. I think education should be free from the bottom to the top....from kindergarten all the way up to your PhD if you choose to get one. But one thing is I would make sure you QUALIFIED to occupy that seat you're sitting in. I don't want a bunch of dummies sitting up occupying space just because it's free. Needless to say, if you read what I said to Tanny you'll understand that even IF the education was free I still think it would be disasterous because this educational system wasn't designed by or for Black people.....which is why so many fail even in the free public schools. 　 Now if people could use the money for anything they wanted, I might be in favor of it, but then I'd want to know who would qualify to get the money. Come on Harlem.......lol. Now you know DAMN WELL you can't put that type of money in the hands of most negroes! Can you imagine the chaos and buffoonery that would break out in the hood if you let just 25% of AfroAmericans get ahold of 100 grand with OUR mentality????? Before you clap back, just sit there and THINK about it for a a couple minutes...lol. Just visualize the Black people from all different sectors YOU'VE known throught out your life getting their hands on $100,000 to do with it as they pleased and what the results would be. Then get back at me......lol. K2 I agree that AfroAmericans need reparations but: 1. It can't be monetary YET. Most Black Americans aren't psychologically conditioned to handle that type of money in a responsible way yet. 2. Not only should it come from the United States government, but the governments of just about EVERY nation in the Western Hemisphere except for Canada....because they all had slavery. Not to mention some of the African nations and the Arabs who helped.

White alcoholics and the gangsters got away (to a great extent) with possession and alcohol use. Blacks were targeted for bootlegging and public drunkenness. When Republicans make laws, they don't make them to protect people.....they make them to TRAP people. The Republican congressman knows that any law he makes will be SELECTIVELY ENFORCED by those on the ground who think like him.