Pioneer1

While not all philosophy is religion, religion falls under the category OF philosophy. Right up there with "creed". One of the ways that philosophy and physics overlap is how the dominant philosophy of a particular society "sets the tone" for the premises and hypotheses of scientific endeavors. For an example OUTSIDE the realm of physics: Say I'm a social scientist or sociologist. And the society that I'm practicing in is predominantly monogamous and promotes monogamy as a general rule. If I observe a group of men who are all divorced and have issues at their jobs because they constantly engage in sex with multiple partners......I'm going to believe that something is WRONG with them. Why? Because the dominating philosophy of my society...the philosophy that monogamy is normal and best...will dictate that something MUST be wrong with these men for going against that which is "normal". Either that analogy is valid OR I'm using that term "philosophy" erroneously, lol.

Man...this thread is all over the place. I had a friend tell me the other day that he hasn't seen Black Panther and WILL NOT go see it. I asked him why, and he said that the conflict between Africans and African Americans in the movie is just contributing to the division amongst Black folk. Now for those who've actually seen the film.....they would no that this African vs African American issue was such a minor aspect of the movie that it's almost not worth talking about. But when you do like my friend and let reviews and critics sway you BEFORE you see the film for yourself.....you end up missing out on a couple hours of enjoyment. This is why it's best to see things for yourself so that you can determine things from your OWN eyes instead of someone elses.

I saw this powerful and "on point" video last night and figured I'd drop it on here. It seems to be pertinent to the disussion we were having in another thread about the value of an academic education.....especially for Black folk. __________________________________________________________________________________________________ Dr. Boyce Watkins interviewing Dr. Claude Anderson

K2 She's not a bad looking woman.....and seems to have a lot of "free time" on her hands....lol. But I don't mess around with anyone over 72 (except for maybe Ernestine Shepherd if I ever had the opportunity). Women in their 70s and 80s often have hip issues. You can have her! Send a ticket for her to come join you where ever you are. She can be your 2nd wife...(or play thing).....along with that Palestinian nurse....lol.

Charlene (Michell) Alexander, my father's older sister. You may be familiar with her, she is actually the first woman to ever run for president of the US., (1968) certainly the only Black woman, And all this time I was thinking Shirley Chisolm was the first.

Cynique Science is knowledge gained from trial and error, a simple process that dates back to primitive times, and is still the basis of modern scientific procedures. Science is MORE than knowledge gained simply by trial and error. Like I said, there is an entire regimen involved in getting knowledge through the scientific method. For one thing, in most cases "science" starts with a hypothesis or an assumption. The differences are deeper than just a mere "spin on words".

Cynique Ok...perhaps you're right. What can I say, I'm a Black man...lol. We've had to develop STRONG defense mechanisms and coping skills to survive in this society.

K2 Obama Took over the oval office. Ben Carson caved, for whatever reason. Personally, I'm of the opinion Barack Obama was foolishly brave, Ben Carson was cowardly, a coward I don't think Obama was brave, I think he was just ambitious. He was always a high achiever and wanted to see if he could achieve the highest office in the land....and did. As far as Ben being a coward......LOL....aren't YOU the one who told ME not to be so hard on him and that he wasn't the type to be bullied? Now you're sitting up here calling the man a coward....lol. But no, I wouldn't exactly call Ben Carson a "coward"...but tame and docile he is. With what they have to do and see, would think it's extremely hard to be a coward and a doctor....let alone a surgeon.....at the same time. Neither served in the military and neither knocked the shit out of a Republican. Do think it civility, professional courtesy, or fear I think it's a mixure of foolish (you can be smart and foolish at the same time) professional courtesy along with a good dose of fear. Had he done something unpopular like implement ‘reparation’ for America’s part in slavery he would not have served another term Lol, then why didn't he do it in his 2nd term when he had little to lose? Have you ever been with another woman while with your significant other? Plenty of times, with and without their knowledge. But now a days....with. Because honesty is part of my moral code....but monogamy isn't.

Like Kalexander said...... We'll give Troy 1 hour to respond and if he doesn't.....lol.....he's a WHITE RACIST TROLL!!!!!

K2 Donald Trump is SOCIALLY intelligent. He knows people and how to deal with people, which allowed him to be so good in business. In your assertion you acknowledge the value of college degrees; what people do with advanced knowledge is a matter of moral conduct; survival of fittest, dead by sleepless nights or a guilty conscience. Maybe? Social deviance of the sociopathic kind. Most of the college degrees that Black people are getting allows them to FIT INTO a system that White men have already built. But it doesn't teach them to build one for themselves. I'd go so far as to say that outside of mathematics much of what is taught isn't really KNOWLEDGE but INFORMATION. And the students who can best memorize that information and give it back to the professor the way he wants it on exams are the ones who get the best grades. With good grades they are allowed to pass through to a career where THEN they will receive the actual KNOWLEDGE through practical application. 　 Again, education is to make our motion better, not get rich, or enjoy material accumulation, those are incidental benefits; I hope people will use not in a deviant manner. Well you must understand that my moral standards are different than most people's. Every behavior fits into the positive, negative, or neutral category. I don't have a problem with people wanting to get rich. I don't even see hoarding money and being selfish or greedy as being "immoral" in and of themselves. They are not good or bad actions....they just are NEUTRAL neither helping nor harming others. Infact, for the person getting rich and stacking up dough.....if that's what they want to do it's actually GOOD. Now when you use your money to actually HURT people or if you steal money from others, NOW that's crossing over into the negative territory. But I don't hate on people for being greedy or wanting to get more and more money as long as they aren't directly hurting others in the process. There is evidence that Christianity purposely introduced the concepts that greed, selfishness, and the accumulation of riches was somehow "wrong" or immoral in order to discourage the masses from seeking to enrich themselves and thus threatening the wealth of those in power.

I just want to know...... Will their be any NUDITY or POLYGAMY? I don't want to fly all the way over to Nigeria for nothing, lol.

Troy how did the people who built the pyramids acquire the knowledge they needed to construct these architectural marvels? I don't know. Perhaps they experimented.....perhaps the knowledge was BESTOWED upon them from a Higher Power. We do know a series of smaller pyramids were built in the Sudan and I believe also the Congo that seemed to led up to the Greater ones although I'm not sure if they were built before or after. Now....lol....since I answered your question will you answer mine...... Do you or do you not agree with the definitions I provided a few posts ago?

　 Troy "African word for Daddy" Surely you did not mean write than did you? Yes....but with an explaination. Ofcourse there are hundreds if not thousands of languages in Africa, however in ALMOST ALL of the sub-Saharan African cultures the children use the words "Baba" for Father and "Mama" for Mother. So by "African language" I'm speaking about the collective languages of sub-Saharan Africa. Actually Chinese also call their father "Baba". As far as blindly following white folks, you know white folks invented Black Panther and he world of Wakanda right? Stan Lee might have invented them but my boy Ryan Cooglar perfected them.....lol.

Troy It being "Western" is a given.....because it was the West that invented it and brought it to the rest of the world. It didn't come from China, or Nigeria, or Arabia, or any Native America culture. But more importantly none of you definitions describe how science is practiced, which is what you don't seem to know. Look up the "scientific method." I already KNOW what the scientific method is. It's what I've been telling you, science is MORE than mere knowledge and information...it's a systematic and methodical way of collecting and organizing data. The knowledge of the ancient cultures who constructed the pyramids, built the ancient cities of the America, build the statues on Easter Island....even the giant Islamic, Persian, Ethiopian, and Chinese civilizations of the past with all of their medicine and architecture didn't use "science" to do it but their own methods of systematically arranging knowledge. I'm not arguing the validity or invalidity of science, I'm arguing that it is NOT the same as simple "knowledge" or even technology. For example, part of official science is RECORDING the observations of your experiments. If you don't record the environmental conditions for what you're doing it's not an official scientific experiment and any information from it wouldn't be officially accepted as science. But we know that much of the techonology of the past came from people who probably couldn't even read or write, let alone "record" anything they were doing while inventing.

　 Troy Very good @Pioneer1, I should known better than to quiz people on this site about African history that said... Are you trying to say America is a secular nation -- are you kidding me?! I gave you an example of a man murdering an elder in the movie but you ignored that example which disproves your point and cherry picked on to suit your needs. I didn't IGNORE your point....lol....I just steam rolled over it with more COUNTER-POINTS. There were far more scenes in that movie that displayed the positive relationship between Black youth and their elders than negative. Even the way the movie started off with a little kid asking his "Baba" (African word for Daddy) about the history of his people. Come on man, don't tell me THAT didn't touch you! I can tell you know nothing about science because as soon as your experiment fails you double down in your flawed hypothesis. Maybe the experiments fail because the laws of physics in Wakanda are different than in America....lol. Did you get the inside of your lower lip tattooed yet? You know there are negroes working o doing this right? I think Black people getting the insides of their lower lips tatooed is a lot smarter than getting both their entire arms and legs along with their necks tatooed like so many are foolishly doing today. I'd rather see Black people use their ingenuity to MAKE UP a culture either on the big screen or in real life than continuing to blindly follow White people in a pathetic attemp to imitate their culture (tatooes, piercings, carnivorous diet, heavy drinking, reckless drug use, ect....) which too often leads to the 3D's: disease, disappointment, and death.

Troy where, pray tell, did you get this definition: "Science is a Western method of collecting and organizing information?" We can't have a reasonable conversation on this subject if this is the basis of your understanding of science There are many definitions but this dictionary says: "a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws" http://www.dictionary.com/browse/science 　 And Wikipedia says: "Science (from Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge")[2][3]:58 is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science Basically, science...professional accepted science....is a system with specific rules and practices for how information is collected, accepted, and arranged. Do you not agree with this?

K2 I cannot see Ben Carson being bullied by anybody, too intelligent for that and too detailed oriented. Intelligence isn't a substitute for courage, just look at Obama and how smart HE was yet he constantly compromised with and caved into the demands of more aggressive Republicans in a feeble attempt to "make peace" and get along with them. If you go to any school you'll see plenty of smart wimps....lol. I think one of the reasons Ben Carson was able to rise as far as he did as a doctor wasn't JUST because of his high intelligence but also because of his docile and non-threatening demeanor. He also said that his wife was the ONLY woman he'd ever been with. Which also no doubt helped his career since the White men working with him didn't have to worry about him sleeping around with White women....lol.

K2 Syntax, I know. The way I arrange my words are deliberate, I think. Or, arrangement by way of the languages I'm learning speak (Arabic and Hebrew) or perhaps I don't care. Yes. It sounds like you're using English words with a foreign syntax or cadence Your posts read like how Arnold Swartznagger sounds....lol. I know you said you don't live here anymore but did you grow up in the United States?

Troy LIke when KIllmonger murdered the character played by Forest Whitaker? No, but like how both Kill Monger and Tachalla having love and respect for their fathers and actually went to the other realm to seek their advice and wisdom. When was the last film out of Hollywood that showed Black males having this type of love and positive relationship with their fathers? Without looking name 3 "African" cultures that used female warriors I can name you several right off the bat but if you don't want me to actually look I'm almost SURE to get the names wrong. 1. Queen N'zinga of Angola who led a group of warriors male and female against European colonialists. 2. Queen Asantewaa of the Ashanti nation who led female warriors. 3. The Dahomey nation had an entire brigade of female warriors. And there were many other examples of African societies PRE-COLONIAL who had female brigades along to go along with the males. And here in the Americas there were entire regiments of female soldiers in Haiti who helped defeat Napoleon's military during the Haitian Revolution. It's not about men dominating over women or women dominating over men. The African way is about BALANCE...male and females in their proper roles. 　 Man name one culture on earth that odes not have some variation of this concept The culture you're living in....the United States. This culture is not only secular, but in many circles it's down right atheist. Where in America do people routinely and casually talk about traveling to other realms where there ancestors are? Neither do they talk about it in Russia, Poland, France, Germany, ect....... What?! nobody had a "natural" hair style in this film. Substituting a straight blond wig for a another wig one is not "natural." I didn't say have A NATURAL (as in the Afro) I said there hair WAS NATURAL....meaning it wasn't dyed blonde nor was it processed to be straight. Del However the movie is historical both economically and culturally. Or shows Blacks as more advanced and autonomous. If that creates hope pride and action. Then it was worth the price of admission Excellent observation! Infact, I believe it crossed the 1 billion dollar line this weekend and is Marvel's highest grossing film! Not only do I see sequels....I can easily see a few television series coming from this project. MOVE OVER "GAME OF THRONES"....LOL.

Del Thanks BTW.... Good looking out for defending my right to privacy! Cynique I am starting to like Kalexander because he's good-natured and thick-skinned. Yeah right....lol. You're just SAYING that to cover up the fact that you had an EMOTIONAL MOMENT before you realized what you were doing. Your coming to my defense and cutting into Kalexander like Cat Woman is almost IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE that my accusations have some merit to them....lol. K2 HEY, to hell with everyone else, sister @Cynique just me a years dose of honorific. I'll not let it go to my head! You better NOT let it go to your head, because she's got a 72 year old Latin Lover who'll go to YOURS...lol. She's got a real SHOW STOPPER who she said lights her fire every night and if you try to get too close to her --something tells me that WHERE EVER the hell you're hiding out at....he'd be there the next day, LOL. Ain't that right Cynique?????

I've noticed that Black people (especially Black men) reading books in public tend to make most White people a little uneasy. So much so that many times they'll walk over and bend sideways to see what you're reading or actually ASK you outright.

Troy Pioneer1 (anyone) do you think the construction of the Pyramids is an example of science applied? No It's an example of ancient African KNOWLEDGE, but not science....because science didn't exist when they were being constructed....lol. Like I said, science and knowledge are different concepts. Cynique How can you separate science from knowledge????? Because they're two separate words. And like I said before, science CONTAINS some elements of knowledge but it's not the same. Science involves a METHOD of doing things and collecting information. While knowledge IS correct information (with the correct understanding ofcourse). Even in the definition you provided: Definition of science: "The intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment. Pay attention to the words "activity encompassing the systemic study". It's not simply information that makes it science, but HOW that information was colllected and organized. Science is a Western method of collecting and organizing information.

　 When I was in Flint a couple years ago working on my project I had an opportunity to meet with the City council and I did a little survey and found that most of them had a Master's Degree and higher. Infact, Mayor Weaver herself has a DOCTORATE and is a Psychologist! Yet with all that education and all those letters behind their names, those negroes STILL couldn't even provide clean water for their city and had to beg half-educated tobacco chewing White men in plaid shirts and jeans who could barely read, to come in and re-do the water lines and provide cleaner water for the city! Most Black people.....degreed or ignorant....can't even fix the pot-holes on the street the live in! This makes me ask: Is all this "education" actually teaching Black people how to build and maintain their own communities? Or does it really just teach them how to "fit in" to societies that White people have build for themselves? Del What jobs will remain after technology is steadily making various jobs obsolete. The jobs that will remain are the jobs that AFROAMERICANS make for themselves! As long as we rely on White people to create the jobs, we will alway have to settle for "whatever is left". But if we establish our own little "micro-economy" withing the larger American economy like the Chinese and Arabs are doing and like WE DID 70 and 80 years ago...we'll be fine. Remember the Great Depression and how those connected to Wall Street lost all their wealth and were jumping out of windows? Guess what..... Most of those living out in the country were fine and ate well because they never depended on Wall Street to begin with. We should take a lessen from them old-timers...lol. Troy After a certain point, I determined I would rather struggle on my own than be owned by folks who really don't see me or respect me. But that is me and I know most people are not like me in this way. I know how you feel. Once I learn how to do something...I usually excell at it and I don't like to be MICRO-MANAGED. But imagine someone with your independent attitude but WITHOUT your education and skills.....that would be me.....lol. I don't know about most women, but I've noticed that MOST MEN after a certain age don't want to be told what to do....but few have the balls to throw off the yoke and be free. Higher education is good to show that you are intelligent enough to learn and disciplined enough to stick to something, but as you know it's ON THE JOB where most of the real learning begins.

I maintain that the REAL value of the movie is that it gives Black youth an image or a template of what a well managed high tech Black society COULD look like.....which will inspire them. Also..... Although the movie was fiction, there were a lot of facts and ancient African concepts in it that were being RE-introduced to Black America such as: -Respect for elders and veneration of ancestors. -The concept of female warriors -The belief and access to other realms where the ancestors dwell -Black women wearing their hair NATURALLY....which is a big plus Something I haven't heard anyone talk about in the media is the fact that we have a virtually all Black movie and NOT ONCE was the "n" word used....lol. This movie has done far more good than harm in my opinion.

We (me and the other White racist trolls) have come to the conclusion that some of you are confusing SCIENCE with KNOWLEDGE. Science CONTAINS knowledge, but the two are NOT the same. (kind of like the different Pioneers who make up the composite....lol) When you reference different facts and discoveries from ancient African cultures like Kemet and Nubia or talk about what the ancient Native Americans knew, you're not talking about science. You're talking about their knowledge, which may have been based in whatever concept their particular culture used to arrive at those beliefs. SCIENCE is a uniquely Western concept. It's more than just collecting information; there are rules and methods to actual "science". And it is indeed a religion because it is dogmatic and fairly strict in it's application.