Pioneer1

Troy @Pioneer1 , if it means anything to ya Bruh I agree 100% Confirmation from a brother of YOUR status means more than you'll ever know !

Cynique Pioneer1 Is there a community of black scientists out there doing research that we don't know about? I don't know. I don't know of any for sure, perhaps they're hiding. Are you saying that if this isn't the case, there should be such a group? I absolutely am. We should have BEEN formed some sort of world wide scientific organization for Black people or people of African descent to help work on diseases like AIDS and problems of poverty, drought, mental health, and other problems that afflict the Black race that White sciences seems to be unable or unwilling to aleviate. Do you believe that the scientific findings of black scientists would be different from that of scientists of other nationalities? I KNOW they would. I've heard of 2 or 3 Black scientist who found the cure for AIDS or HIV but they didn't get any recognition from the greater White scientific community. And look at the brother from Nigeria they did a movie on who discovered CTE brain injury among NFL players. I believe his name is Bennet Ifeakandu Omalu. Will Smith played him in a movie recently. All of these years of players suffering and White scientists and doctors examining them but couldn't seem to make a connection or discover the problem, and here a Black doctor from Nigeria finds out what's happening. No, this isn't a coincidence....we need BLACK doctors and scientists to help us solve our problems. But this isn't the case just in the scientific arena.....we should extend this concept in all fields. There are Black teachers who KNOW how to properly and effectively teach Black children...but as long as they learn to teach under the White system and rely on White methods...continue to expect Black kids to fail in larger numbers. There is no such thing as black physics, black chemistry, black mathematics, black astronomy, black geology. If you can go back in time, tell that to the Black ancient Egyptians who build large cities and monuments that have lasted until this day WITHOUT the aid of Western science and engineering. Or tell it to the ancient Maya and Inca who build roads, bridges, and huge cities WITHOUT the "White science" of Europeans. There's more than one way to skin a cat. BTW, the medical community now takes ethnicity into consideration when it comes to its research. Now???? LOL They ALWAYS KNEW there was a difference between Black and White genetics. Hell, HITLER and his Nazi scientists knew there were differences between even various White ethic groups 80 and 90 years ago....and you mean to tell me these doctors and scientists in America are just now catching up????? Study the history of eugenics in America.....they've known for years that Black people often need different medicine than White people. And Native Americans need different medicine too. Delano Our body of knowledge would be broader. If there were less institutional barriers in society in general and education specifically. Well..... It's ABOUT TIME you finally said something I agreed with.....lol.

Xeon I actually didn't see your response to my post up there. I ERASED my initial post because: 1. No one really responded to it, until YOU....lol. 2. After a few days of thinking about it, it kind of clashes with the theme of the thread and I didn't want to throw shade on a topic others may be interested in. Having said that.............. It makes little sense for me to argue about White science and scientists. 1. Academically, I'm probably not as educated as you. 2. And I CERTAINLY don't trust White academia and the White scientific body as much as you do....lol. It's more of a common sense things to me. I don't place my faith or trust in most things I don't understand, especially when it comes from people with a history of deception and manipulation no matter how big the words they use are or how sophisticated they sound or how smart they claim to be or actually are. I've met very smart people who turned out to be drug addicts, abusers, sexual perverts....ect. If you believe White men with white coats and glasses are telling you the truth, there's not much I can say to convince you otherwise.

Cynique and Xeon ((scratches head)) You 2 are smart people, and this isn't very hard. It's actually quite simple. Why don't you two "get it"? The GOAL of Minister Farrakhan was to have a MILLION MAN MARCH. His GOAL was to organize a peaceful gathering of a million Black men on the Mall in Washington D.C. He ACCOMPLISHED this when over a million showed up. I was there, I can bear witness to this fact. It was a success, get over it. Furthermore................ Minister Farrakhan's message for Black people was/is CRYSTAL CLEAR: Stop drinking Stop using drugs Stop engaging in criminal activity Eat properly Take care of your children Use the creativity in you to build a business for yourself. Just like Elijah Muhammad's was 50 years ago. And just like Elijah's, it worked for those WHO FOLLOWED IT back then, and it works for those WHO FOLLOW IT today. Pointing to the ills of a community in which the VAST MAJORITY of people DO NOT adhere to Minister Farrakhan's message as an example of his ineffectiveness.......is like pointing to a sick man who refuses to take his prescribed medicine as an example of how ineffective the doctor is. Thousands of Black men in Chicago and other cities have heard Minister Farrakhan yet STILL engage in gang-banging and dope using/selling even when many of them have OTHER means to make a living and conduct themselves. But you want to blame that on him? Like I said before, Minister Farrakhan is a LEADER.....but not a DICTATOR. The only thing he does is TELL you how to be successful, but if you refuse to follow his instructions and continue to behave in "niggatry" and foolishness, why is that HIS fault?

I think fatherhood must be TAUGHT. It's part of civilization, it's not instinctual and must be passed down from father to son. As much as I like America and the fact that the beauty of this nation is that we really have no offical established "culture"......sometimes that can be a problem. Especially when most Asians, Latinos, and even some Whites come from strong cultures that re-enforce what the roles are for parents......while most Black American don't. Atleast in Africa we had clearly defined roles and expectations for fathers, mothers, and children. And if you didn't meet them the entire community punished you for it. You had rites of passage that clearly instructed you....there was no room for mistakes or confusion. Today, there is so much confusion about what qualifies one as a "good father" in the Black community. Similar to the discussion in the other thread about what it means to be a "good man". There are no set rules or guidelines and AfroAmericans are often too powerless or timid to take bold social stands that would establish clear boundaries in our community for the role of parents, children, husbands, wives, ect.... Take just one example, spanking your child. If we were a strong community we would declare our right to spank our children when necessary and wouldn't give a damn who didn't like it. If the state or law enforcement got involved, they wouldn't get an apology from us or expect us to run off and hide to escape punishment.....but they'd get a verbal and legal confrontation! A mother's little boy runs into the street and almost gets hit by a car. So she spanks him on the spot. A neighbor calls Child Protective Services and they come out to the house. Now instead of hiding in the house or lying and crying claiming she didn't hit her child like most Black people do, imagine if she instead says: "Yeah I spanked his ass. And if he runs out in the street like that again and lives through it, I'm gonna spank him again....twice as long and twice as hard. If you have a problem with it.....too bad. But if you touch me or my children I'll make sure you're working at Home Depot this time next year and we'll backrupt the city doing it! Now get off my property before I call the REAL cops on you." Imagine if most Black people were that bold when speaking to "the system".

Who can you trust? Well.............. We can start with trusting what few Black scientists we already have to relate to us what little facts they are allowed to know and talk about. But we can't trust most of them completely because most Black scientists are really students of White scientists and a White/Western scientific method. Ultimately, we need to encourage more Black youth to BECOME qualified scientists so that we can discover and relate knowledge that BENEFITS US as a people. The greater scientific body is primarily White...Western....European. Out of the billions of people on this planet, doesn't anyone else find it a little odd that so much of the scientific knowledge the world has been exposed to is generated by a relatively few who nearly all come from the same race? Everytime you turn around a White American scientist has come it with this. A German scientist comes up with that. A Russia comes up with this. Every now and then a Japanese scientist comes up with that. Where are the African and Native America (pure blooded) scientists? What are THEY discovering? Where are they doing THEIR research? These are questions a FREE people with common sense will ask.

Del So what's the bit you understand? . The words....lol. I understand the words and their traditional meanings individually. But sometimes when you string them together with your thought process to convey a message, I don't understand the meaning or gist of what you're trying to say. You say: The only way for me to be mistaken is if the entire world is part of your dream. There are are more ways but I am mirror your use of absolutes. Several questions pop up out of that statement and stand before me: 1. If you're saying....that I think....the entire world is part of my dream, how can YOU make a mistake in it? 2. You say there are "more ways" but more ways of WHAT? 3. You say you're a mirror of my use of absolutes, what does THAT mean? First of all I present very little absolutes. Secondly, how can YOU mirror them besides being absolute yourself on the opposite end of the idea, which would make you just as absolute.

Del Pioneer I thought you just were paraphrasing. Did you have any thoughts before reading the other posts. LIke you said earlier, comprehending what you're saying sometimes is a bit of a problem. I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you ask did I have any other thoughts before reading other posts. Ofcourse I always think about what is being presented to me. When you presented the problem, I sat for a few minutes and thought up some solutions. Besides Mel's suggestion (quite telling I must say....lol) of sitting on somebody's lap which I included as one solution....nothing anyone else posted influenced my other three solutions.

Del The only way for me to be mistaken is if the entire world is part of your dream. There are are more ways but I am mirror your use of absolutes. I have very little idea of what you just said. Cynique Really? An alternative assessment is that single black women looking for a good man are discriminating, and a great percentage of the black dating pool is made of up of men whose fathers haven't schooled them on what constitutes being a good man because they don't know themselves, and these types are considered "rejects" by black women. So, as usual, sistas can't win for losing. It's hard to win a game you are reluctant to play anyway. I mentioned it a couple times before but I really think a major problem is that too many Black women are either consciousy or unconsciously IN LOVE with White men. The "White Jesus" of their subconscious. Many of our sisters simply love, respect, and find White men more attractive. And because so many have a hard time trying to come to grips with these feelings and actually feel guilty about it...instead of admitting it plainly, they'd rather find fault and point out what the Black man is doing wrong to justify why she feels the way she does. When many Black women talk about having a "good" man, they really subconsciously mean EITHER a White man or a Black man who REMINDS them of a White man in terms of looks/behavior/speech/financial....ect. Because of this, no solid Black man will EVER be good enough for some of these women regardless of how handsome and wealthy and well behaved he is.....because of the one thing he can't change.....his race. But rather than admitting this and getting themselves a White lover, they'd rather claim that the Black men in thier vicinity aren't good enough or don't measure up....without providing specific details. Mel that's a possibility... but it's not different...but it's still a past life that the current host has lived... So you believe in reincarnation or past lives? Was any of this revealed to you during your near death experience, or did it come from information given to you by others?

Del You and Mel are more similar in that your approach had a social component. Whereas both of mine were not Yes and our solutions have a degree of independence. I gave you FOUR options. 2 of them involved relying on the graces of other people. 2 of them were INDEPENDANT and didn't require other people to do anything.

I don't BELIEVE that I'm a father. I used to travel a lot and I've had a lot of "flings" when I younger so the possiblity of fatherhood does exist, but so far....no suprises, lol. But thanx Harry, Mel, Cynique and everyone else. I'd also like to wish Del and Troy and CD a very happy Father's Day although I still put it in the same category as Mother's Day. An unnecessary holiday invinted to make more money and placate the conscience of a guilty and gullible children. I don't have a desire for marriage, especially monogamous marriage...but I DO have a desire to be a father. However personally, I don't think it's very responsible to bring children into a world that isn't very promising for the average Black person and where our people collectively have become so powerless to protect and provide for them. I take the role of being a father VERY seriously. If God blesses me to bring life into this world I want to KNOW that I can provide for and protect them. I can't say that Black men collectively have enough power in this society to do that for their children. And the sad part is I don't see a major plan that the Black community...in America atleast...has to establish and safe, stable, and progressive society for our children to grow up in. Most seems to have children by accident, and those who PLAN and live responsibly often do so with White spouses. If we as a community finally get it together, if I'm not too old I really want to participate and encourage other Black people of means to ADOPT Black orphaned children from both here and abroad. I don't know what others are seeing, but for the past 5 or 6 years I've been seeing a lot of White gay/lesbian couples walking around with Black children that they've adopted and I'm trying to figure out what's going on. Why of all the children a homosexual couple could adopt....do they seem to like adopting Black children? And why are WE letting it happen instead of adopting them ourselves?

Del Pioneer you are mistaken. Your life is not Life Perhaps YOU are the one mistaken. Perhaps your "past lives" weren't really lives at all. Ever thought of the possibility that you were actually recalling the genetic recordings of your ANCESTORS' LIVES that was encoded in their DNA and passed down to yours but when you recall them you mistake them for your own?

Reread the statement. It's a subtle point, that i hadn't noticed. Well hell, if you gave us a scenario with points that YOU hadn't even noticed, then that means there are OPTIONS that you probably didn't think of also.....like the ones I provided, lol. So let's look at it again: "Now consider this scenario: you want to sit at a given table, but the only available chair at the table is broken; the chair only has three legs. What can you do with the broken chair to be able to sit at the table?" The question was what can you do with the broken chair to be able to sit at the table. Not what can you do with the broken chair to be able to sit ON IT at the table. My options are actually quite practical because you'd have to use them in real life. What if you wake up to go to work in the morning and find you have a flat tire on your car. Do you stand around for 2 hours scratching your head trying to figure out how to fix the flat, or do you consider other methods of getting to work incase you can't fix it?

Del 4 isn't an option. However the answers are informative. Mel's is more social. Pioneer's is a request or demand not sure. Mine doesn't require a social interaction Why is not 4 an option? You said the only available chair AT THE TABLE was broken, you didn't specifically rule out the option of other chairs being near by nor did you rule out their availability for sitting in. Your only focus was doing something with the broken chair and sitting at the table. Again, tossing that broken ass chair to the side and grabbing another one from the kitchen covers both....lol.

Del Pioneer how are you making global statements about marriage? When by your own admission your relationship tend to be short term? For the same reasons that I'm not a criminal but I still know how to keep my valuables out of sight and my doors locked when I'm in a shady area or around shady people. A little experience and common sense goes a long way. I know quite a few people who are IN long term relationships (20, 30, 50 years) so I know it's possible. But again, there are almost never two "equals" in the relationship. Pioneer you are mistaken your life for Life. Which puts all of your statements in perspective. And you appear to be mistaking "M-I-S-T-A-K-E-N" for "M-I-S-T-A-K-I-N-G". .....work on that. 　 Critique Cynique Well one person's constructive criticism is another one's hyper-criticism. You have a right to freedom of speech but you don't have an inalienable right to think a woman's gives a damn about adhering to your personal standards. They obviously do, or they wouldn't be so angry or sad or frustrated when Black men criticize it. Too many girls are growing up without fathers or real men in their lives, the only affirmation of their beauty or femininity is coming from their mothers.....who often themselves don't have a clue on what real beauty or femininity looks like in the eyes of a Black man. To me, it has to meet two requirements for it to be legitimate constructive criticism: 1. It's a critique about something that the person can actually change or do something about 2. The critique is followed up with helpful advice to actually improve the problem being critiqued. Troy Who truly see's Pioneer? Is it even possible? It's possible, but I don't make it easy. I'm one of those bruthas who likes to keep strips of tape over his computer webcams....lol.

Now consider this scenario: you want to sit at a given table, but the only available chair at the table is broken; the chair only has three legs. What can you do with the broken chair to be able to sit at the table? The question was what can you do with the broken chair to be able to sit at the table. Not sure what you MEANT, but based on what you SAID the goal is to sit at the table...not necessarily sit on that broken chair. So we can resolve the issue a number of ways: 1. FIX the broken chair 2. Put it to the side and ask for someone else's chair to sit in. 3. Or like Mel said, you can put it to the side and ask to sit on somebody's lap (You ain't foolin' me Mel, that's how you REALLY got them husbands!!! Not with some damn mashpotatoes and pork chops....lol) Problem is, most people who have laps strong enough to hold my weight.....are people who's laps I wouldn't want to sit on, lol. 4. Or simply go find ANOTHER CHAIR that's not at the table and bring it to the table to sit on.

I haven't been following it much either...and I'm less than 100 miles away. Me and some other foreward thinking Black folks have tried to get sommething going up there, I guess they weren't too crazy about other Black folks from outside the city helping them. Too many of the residents wanted to snuggle up to White philanthropists and opportunists who started targeting the city. The same negroes who loved putting their trust in the hands of White so-called "liberals" who they thought came in to help them and give them some money are now losing their homes and as a result. Many of them who wouldn't open their doors to US, are in jail because they opened their doors to White folks who were walking around the city but were really law enforcement officers who disguised themselves as red cross aid in order to serve warrants. I saw this thread and I thought it was about that shit Steve Harvey said. Somebody from Flint called up on Steve's show and said something salty about Cleveland and Lebron not winning the play offs and Steve made fun of the lead being in the water and told my man to enjoy a nice glass of that dirty brown water. http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/apologies-demanded-steve-harvey-flint-comment-48085744 I couldn't believe somebody as smart as him (he acts silly for entertainment but he has to be pretty damn smart to get where he's at) would say some callous not to mention dumb shit like that. Even if he were THINKING it, he should have known how scandalous it would look to the public for him to say it. And he's a Black man too?? How can you sit up and look at Black people....especially Black children....who suffered from this and sit up and make jokes about it? Some Black entertainers seem to be so juvenile at times....... I remember Damon Wayans used to make fun of handicapped people. He did it during his stand-up routine and then started doing it on a regular basis on In Living Color. Damon is very talented, but he should have gotten his ass beat...by other Black folks....for doing that, for real. Offensive behavior has to be nipped in the bud before little children catch on to it and think it's ok and normal to do....and you do that by CHECKING adults who dare to do it! I'm sure Steve only said it out of impulse because he felt so strong for his city that he wanted to hit the caller back where he figured it would hurt.....but Black are often TOO impulsive. You get to the point where you're so impulsive and want to strike back so quick that you don't even THINK about your actions and their consequences. The mayor is asking for an apology from him.....and will probably get it. But thats just the least of his worries. That dumb joke may very well end up costing Steve MILLIONS of dollars. Either in having to give it in a large donation to the victims of the water toxicity, OR end up costing him in adverstising and other sales if he ends up having his shit boycotted in protest. Troy Yeah, I'm already hearing talk about another trial for Cosby. I thought you weren't allowed to be tried twice for the same crime. I thought it was called Double Jeopardy.

As far as finding and marrying "good" Black men and women- I don't have much to say about this subject because I've never been too crazy about relationships. I can count on one hand the number of long term relationships I've been in. Not trying to sound callous, but I was more of a "hit it and go" type of brother who got bored if I was stuck with the same woman and her alone for more than 2 months....lol. Some people are just not meant to be in relationships, and as a society we have to simply make room for those type of people. When you try to force them to get married or even encourage them to do so you're only making more unnecessary problems because then you force them to be "fake" just to try and get along and do what everyone else is doing even if it's unnatural to them. I'm happy that I recognized about myself early on before getting married that I WASN'T meant to play the "family guy" game and avoided such....although some people considered it selfish and irresponsible. Even in most professional circles like being a doctor, lawyer, or professor...it's almost REQUIRED that you be married to be seen as "respectable" and mature. 　 　 Troy I was not trying to start anything other than thought and conversation. It was just that the way Christal described the situation with trying to obtain a relationship with Black men hit me in much the same way the reaction to our perception of Time Magazine's photo of Viola hit me--unexpected and intense. You know what? I'm beginning to believe that the entire concept of there not being enough "good" Black men to go around was some sort of meme or mental virus that was started back in the 80s and now a lot of women are using it as an excuse to cover for their failed relationships. Cynique I don't know that black men have earned the right to judge how black women decide to have themselves portrayed. Should the right to constructively criticize our women out of love be EARNED? Or should it be an UNALIENABLE right that doesn't have to be earned any more than we have to earn the right to protect or marry our women? Delano Mel my big thing was I don't control you and you don't control me. A lot ofWomen not just Black Women can't manage that very well. This is because just like there is no such thing as a relationship where there are 2 independant people, there is no such thing as a relationship where no one is controling the other. Anytime 2 human beings spend a meaningful amount of time with eachother and exchange energies...SOMEBODY has the upperhand even if only slightly and unknowingly. My mother asked me why i don't date more black women. A few years later it became how come you don't date American women. Lol..... If I found out MY son was hanging out at ballet theaters, I wouldn't give a damn WHAT type of woman he was dating....as long as he was dating WOMEN! Mel Marriage is quite unnatural but is a great experiment Ofcourse the institution of marriage as practiced in the WEST is unnatural...especially for Black people. It wasn't designed BY us or FOR us. Most of the problems Black people in the United States have with marriage....as with many of their other problems like drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, ect....comes from IMITATING WHITE PEOPLE. If we'd just stop trying to imitate them and do our own thang, we'd realize we have far more in common with eachother NATURALLY and most of what we THINK are dysfunctions would simply melt away into harmony. We.....Black people....TAUGHT WHITE PEOPLE how to get married. But we gave them a very simplified form (monogamous) with a simplified family structure (nuclear) that was designed for their simplistic linear mindset; but our traditional indigenous marriage systems that we had before being forced to abandon them were FAR more complex but they worked for us.

Some things should just be left alone. I too think it's pretty suspect that all of a sudden all of these women want to come out together and claim rape and sexual assault. However......... Rape and sexual assult are bad things and I can't defend men who commit crimes like these. Plus, it's my understanding that his claim isn't that he didn't have sex with these women.....but that it was consentual....which makes him an adulterer. So now we're gonna stand up and defend an admitted adulterer and claim he's a victim of racial targetting? Black people really need to learn how to pick their battles WISELY. Dr. Martin Luther King (who was also accused but not proven of adultery) when he was just starting out as an activist preacher down in Alabama had an opportunity to launch the Montgomery Boycott earlier than he did. Apparently there was a young lady who refused to sit down at the back of the bus way before Rosa Parks decided to take a stand, but this young lady was said to have been a teenager with an out of wedlock child. Dr. King realized how bad it would have looked publicly to rally an entire racial civil rights campaign around someone "considered" immoral and irresponsible. It would have affected the legitimacy of his argument.....and being a very intelligent man he KNEW that ahead of time. We should take a lesson from Dr. King. I don't want to see Mr Cosby go to prison, but whether he coerced those women with drugs or just ran around cheating on his wife....either way the man was out of order. I'm not gonna throw a brick threw a window for him.

Cynique You can contend til you're blue in the face and i will continue to cast a jaundiced eye at your generalizations and your insistence that you know how all gay men think and, further, that you can speak for all straight men - and not back this up with something other than some anecdotal theory you conjured up in StarBucks because you are fixated on assigning certain traits to men and women and gays and straights, and blacks and whites, - while not possessing a degree in anthropology. Your eye isn't jaundiced. Your vision is yellow because of the straw from that big ass STRAW-MAN argument you've been erecting. You've purposely IGNORED every balanced thing I've been saying concerning straight men and women and their abilities to judge members of the same sex in order to paint my position as extreme and onesided......and then proceed to go to war against it. Because I realize this, I've come to the conclusion that it's a waste of time to keep repeating myself. So we have to agree to disagree. I'm afraid we can't, because YOU wouldn't allow THAT to happen. If I DID start agreeing with you on ANYTHING (including respectful disagreement).....you'd either act like you didn't read it or CHANGE your opinion, lol. Xeon You misunderstood what my point was. My point was having a darker complexion and Negroid facial features puts you at odds with the universal standard of beauty. I was very clear about what the standard is and that it is global. I’m not suggesting that I agree with it -but it is what it is. And nothing said in this forum or by anyone who is black is going to change it…. I don't know if I'd call it "universal" standards of beauty. The promotion of White women as the epitome of feminine beauty is a result of Western cultural imperialism and influence. Can you find me one indigenous culture that HASN'T been touched or influenced by the West that holds White skin, blonde hair, and blue/green eyes as standards of female beauty? Well, I agree. But if Gabby lost 100 pounds -why would Viola Davis be more attractive? What facial features would clearly make her face more attractive than Gabby’s? Her poThe structural shape of her face (considering if Gabby lost 100 lbs)? Her nose? The shape and size of her mouth? Spatial separation of the eyes? Her hair? WHAT? Again -what would make, Viola Davis’s face (in your opinion) more attractive than Gabby’s? Details please…. Well for one, her larger more open eyes. Her thicker more lushious lips. They may be the same complexion by Viola's skin seems to be more even toned and clearer where as Gabourey's is more "grainy" with dark patches. Viola is smiling in the photo while Gabourey is not, but her teeth and smile are wonderful too. In my opinion, fat or not Viola is generally just more physically attractive. Her "negroid" features and complextion has little to do with this while her FEMININE features do. 　 Let me further my point. In Singapore, there are three major ethnic groups, Malaysians, Chinese and East Indian. As far as bodies are concerned, the Chinese and Malaysians females have the better bodies, especially legs. The Indian women, not so much when compared side by side to the Malaysians and Chinese. But the Indian women are much more attractive in the face. It’s a no contest bro –TRUST ME! Now, this is what you want to hear –the Indian woman have much darker skin complexions than the Malaysians and Chinese. This harks to a notorious American Negro faux pas, "For a dark skinned gurl she really do look good!" I haven't been aroune many Malaysian women. The few that I have seen tended to be covered up because most of them were Muslim. But I have seen Chinese women and Indian women and TO ME, not only did Indian women look better in the face, but their body was bangin' too....far superior to the average Chinese woman. Most Chinese women I've seen tended to have slim hips and a flatter chest, which isn't very attractive TO ME. Where as most Indian women tended to have very wide hips and thick legs and breasts which to me is extremely attractive. So I guess it's just a matter of opinion. Ya know, I have no idea why you chose to bring this white woman into this discussion. Yes, she is very unattractive. BUT WHY DID YOU CHOOSE TO INJECT THIS WOMAN INTO A DISCUSSION ABOUT GABBY SIDIBE AND VIOLA DAVIS? We are discussing the opinions about the controversy of Viola Davis’s cover picture on Time magazine and your comparison to Gabby Sidibe (which I did not understand either). Because your argument is that Gabourey and Viola are considered unattractive because of their African features and I brought her in as an example of a WHITE WOMAN with WHITE FEATURES who was still unattractive! How does a White woman with fully so-called "European" or "Caucasian" features (and I say so-called because millions of pure Black Africans have the same features in East Africa) like small nose, small lips, blonde hair, White skin, ect......STILL end up being unattractive? Because racial phenotype doesn't determine one's attractiveness in the first place. You have attractive and unattractive women in all races and the pictures I provided illustrate that. 　 Honey Boo Boo’s physical appearance is nowhere near the average looking white female! Lol.....you need to come to the Midwest! I'll find you about 15 in every Wal-Mart. 　 The aversion to dark complexions is across the board in most of the world's cultures. Don’t think so? Do you know how many people are in China and India alone? Those two nationalities contribute to slightly under a "third of the world’s population"! For those two groups alone, which do you think elevates a woman’s desirability –a dark complexion or a light complexion? Among Arabic and Latinos (including Brazil), which elevates a woman’s attractiveness –dark complexion or a light complexion? In all of Africa, which color will give a woman greater social opportunity and conjuration –a dark complexion or a light complexion? Every single one of these cultures and nations have been heavily influenced and colonized by White Europeans. Western culture has left it's mark on the thinking of the people by not only telling them that White women are more beautiful, but that White men are smarter and White morality and technology is superior to their own. But the strange thing is....... As much as White men have tried to convince the rest of the world that White women are the epitome of beauty and femininity....THEY have been busy having sex with nearly every woman of color they have colonized. If women of color...women with brown or black skin were considered so unattractive then my question to you is why did so many European men HAVE SEX WITH THEM by the milllions when they came to the Americas or went to Africa, India, or China? They had millions of thier own White women to choose from, why go outside for the "less attractive"? Infact, why are so many White women STILL going to Asia and Africa literally BUYING Black and Brown women as wives and sex partners? I mean, paying HUGE sums of money to these women and thier families just for the right to have sex with them or marry them.....with all of these single White women available for them in the United States and Europe? Something isn't adding up....... If White women are in such demand, why aren't more rich White (or Asian, or African) men scouring trailer parks and poor sections of Eastern Europe offering money to them and their families to marry them like they're doing Asian and African and Central American women?

Troy....man you KNOW what you're doing when you start threads like this. Lol....you know....you DO know....lol. But a couple questions.............. 1. What qualifies one as a "good" Black man? The term "good" means different things to different people and what a man may considered "good" in a man may not be what women consider good. Furthermore..... 2. For over 30 years we've heard about the lack of good Black men, but what if I were to declare there was an equal lack of "good" Black women too !? The men are in part shaped and formed by the women who gave birth to them, so if there's a lack of good men then what does that say about the women who produced them? There's too much complaining and waiting going on and not enough planning and engineering. At some point as a community we're going to have to decide what type of traits the majority of us (because ALL of us will never agree) would like to see in the opposite sex and start trying to develop these traits in our children so that they'll have them when they become adults. ....instead of letting people grow up wild like weeds and then complaining about them afterwards.

Cynique And in spite of your "revulsion", there are some men who might find Gabourey attractive. Well there are "some" men who'll fine ANYBODY attractive. As long as a person has a hole....they'll run up in it, lol. But I NEVER said I found Gabourey revolting. You may want to question Xeon on some of that language....not me. point are you trying to make by posting pictures of 2 physically ugly men? Showing you that even as a straight man....when it comes to extreme examples I can still judge somewhat whether or not some men would be considered PHYSICALLY attractive or unattractive to most women. women or gaySince what i implied and what you claim is also your point, this point being that perception of attractivemess is a subtle subjective determination that is in the eye of the beholder, then why even broach the silly subject? No, no, nooooo..........that's NOT my point. ONCE AGAIN, my point is: Although anyone can have an opinion about the attractivenesss of another, those who are ALREADY sexually oriented towards them are BEST qualified to determine how attractive they really are! Who needs your flawed ambiguous observation that only women and gay men are qualified to judge attractiveness in straight males. YOU...for one.....if you didn't already know this. And it appears that you didn't. So now consider yourself educated, lol. If, as you also imply, physical attraction is universal, anybody can judge someone else's attractiveness no matter what their sex or sexual orientation is. A straight man could very well understand what a woman would see in a man that wasn't physically attractive but had a good personality and money, or in a man who had standard good looks like a movie star who was very photogenic. NO, that's not always the case. Infact, that's USUALLY not the case. Sometimes a straight man can figure some things out based on experience and observation as well as what other men and women have told him.....but it's still not the same as having an inborn predisposition of being attracted to a certain group that allows you to focus on more details. I'm not sure what gay men focus on the most, but most straight men focus MOSTLY on a woman's looks in determining whether or not she's attractive to him. It's not the only thing, there are other factors...but looks are the biggest. It's very hard for a straight man to naturally get inside the head of a woman to look at a man through HER eyes. Most pimps and players can do it, which is why they tend to be more successful with women than the average man. How many times have you heard a man who wants a particular woman who left him for another man complain about, "Why him?" "What does HE have that I ain't got???" He's looking at attraction through HIS eyes, instead of hers. So still, while anyone can judge....the BEST judges are those predisposed to find that particular group attractive. I know you're smart enough to figure out what I'm saying, stop acting crazy and giving me a hard time on this.....you know I'm right. Dont' just sit up and argue with me over NOTHING.

Cynique 　 Being attracted to a man is not necessarily the same as a man being attractive. A woman can be attracted to a brilliant dynamic man who dresses well, exudes a certain confidence and respires with animal magnetism but who does not have a handsome face. And she may be turned off by an attractive man with handsome chiseled features but who has a conceited cocky demeanor and talks, but can't walk a good game. Some women don't like pretty men and to others, power is a great aphrodisiac. Last but not least, one of a man's most attractive features in hidden in his groin. Size matters. You're reading what I'm saying, but you're not taking time to COMPREHEND it. If you DID, you'd realize that you're basically proving my point.....lol. That point being..... Although anyone can have an opinion about the attractivenesss of another, those who are ALREADY sexually oriented towards them are BEST qualified to determine how attractive they really are. And your latest post basically backs that up by stating the various qualities a woman (straight woman) may find attractive or unattractive about a man that a lesbian woman or a straight man may not pick-up on or overlook...simply because they aren't interested. Good job.

　 Cynique 200,000,000??? I don't think so.You are quick to discount Obama's substantiated record but continue to rattle off a litany of all the vague miracles that Farrakhan has performed. Whatever. Lol..... Don't know where you're getting that 200 million figure.....I certainly didn't provide it. Besides the ACA which was basically a give-a-way to the insurance companies, what did Obama accomplish? Especially for Black people? Black America is WORSE off economically and social today than they were BEFORE Obama was elected. The black community is in crises and the plight of young black inner city men is worse than it has ever been Thank you for making my point! And as I thank YOU.....YOU can thank your beloved Obama for this condition young Black America finds itself in today. And while you're at it, you can also thank him for Trump because HE'S the main reason Trump is in the Whitehouse today. Delano No Pioneer you stated that Ballet is dancing for Whites. However I am retiring from dual monologues. That's odd....... Most people tell bed time stories so that OTHERS can retire for the night. You seem to like telling tales before YOU retire......lol. Can you find me one post where I stated that ballet is dancing for WHITES?????

Cynique So, do you think only .women and gay men can judge the looks of men?? Ofcourse not. Anyone can judge anyone's looks. Even if you don't find that particular demographic attractive, there are some universal traits of attractiveness going beyond sex or even race and culture that allows you to kind of "size up" who may be considered attractive and who probably would be regulated to the more unattractive category. For example...... I don't have to be gay to realize that most women probably don't find these men very attractive physically: However women and gay men are the MOST qualified to judge on a man's physical attractivenss. Because they tend to be attracted to that male demographic by nature, they notice a lot of minor details and subconscious traits that lesbians and straight men may not notice. I don't believe this is just my opinion, I think it's closer to fact.