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richardmurray

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  1. Black American Millionaires

     

    My comments in the post

     

    @Delano black people with money have existed in the usa when it was colonies of the british empire. Black people with money are not more profitable than white people with money but have slowly grown , without enslaving or murdering other peoples for their land. 

    The question is, is the goal of the black community ins the usa to have communal strength or to be a collection of individuals? 

     

    @Delano for the record, I am not opposing the Black community in the USA , not the world or another country but the USA , being a set of individuals. But the only problem is, a community of individuals can't then ask/demand for collective or communal strength. 

     

    @Delano well, I said ask/demand. The point is not about weakness or strength but strategy. 

    I think history shows from frederick Douglass to today, the Black community in the usa is led by leaders who want to be nonviolent or positively integrate to nonblacks. They guided the black community in the usa to be a community of individuals. the problem is, most black people in the usa did and do not want that and moreover, have not handled what that means. 

     

    @ProfD one question, can you describe what a liberated black people in the usa look like? I am not refuting your statement, about what will not influence liberation for black people in the usa, but how do you define said liberation? Note I am not asking about the process or the path, I am asking about how you define the end.

     

    @Delano yes, the old saying, strong people lead themselves... history proves that isn't a lie but isn't the truth either. 

    A person can lead themselves and be strong and not help their own community, especially in the usa. I think many black people have been strong in the usa post war between the states, they have led themselves to individual profit. Now does that mean the black community has improved since the war between the states, well...

     

    @ProfD I quote you

      Quote

    Independently capable of generating  and sustaining wealth in all realms (mental, physical and spiritual). 

     

    Complete autonomy and self-sufficiency in all areas of human activity. 😎

     

    If that is the destination, I will firmly say that can't happen in the usa for the black community, can it? complete autonomy or self sufficiency, in the usa for the black community demands black people control natural resources and have the militaristic means to defend said resources. Can that actually happen in the usa ? In another country, especially a black one, meaning has mostly black people in it, possibilities exist. but in the usa, this can't happen right? 

    I may comprehend you wrong, but I don't see that level of autonomy of self sufficiency for the black community in the usa. where am I miscomprehending you?

     

    @Mel Hopkins the black community in the usa has changed right? it has gone through multiple phases since the end of the war between the states right? the modern black community has more members with a multiphenotypical background, has more members from a recent immigration standpoint, these factors are huge. the black community in the usa in the 1960s didn't have so many recent immigrants from the islands/africa/asia/south america/europe as today. and the black community circa 1865 was the most monolithic culturally/financially/heritagewise than ever after. I think the demography of the black community has changed alot in a relative short time. And I want to add having friends who came as children to the usa from places in africa, clan members who saw how black people immigrating from the caribbean were treated in the black community in the early 1900s , that the black community in the usa was forced to accept alot of new members without its want, to be blunt. Look at the white community in the usa. Even though white jews or catholics have been in the usa from the 13 colonies era, it took a very long time for the white protestants to truly embrace white jews or white catholics. Whereas in the black community, the impotency of the black community meant new black folk from latin america, from africa, from asia, had no communal restriction from Black DOSers anywhere near what white protestants gave white jews or catholics. So I concur about new ways but the black community in the usa hasn't had time to settle as a community since the war between the states and that can be problematic when you are trying to organize. 

     

    @ProfD yes, and you answered perfectly, My reply is not a condemnation of your answer, which you seem to suggest. TO a country like Nigeria or Jamaica I have nothing to say about your definition of the goal. BUT, the USA is not Nigeria or Jamaica. 

    I am not dissecting your definition. I am not debating if it can be applied. I am debating one thing, if it can be applied in the usa. . I think it is fair to ask can that destination be achieved in a country like the usa that is not only black people. What about the native american? based on how you define the goal for black people in the usa, if the native american wants the same freedom and whites want the same freedom <which of course they do > then all of these peoples can't have the same goal in one space. I am not talking about process but the ability of the usa as a multiracial society to provide freedoms for all its races. 

    I argue, the usa can't allow all races to have freedom as you define freedom for the black community. That isn't an insult to your point merely a continuation of discussion

    I apologize, if I poorly move on to my centerpoint of discussion

     

    @Mel Hopkins I again, communicate poorly, my point isn't that strong people lead themselves. I agree partially to @Delano because, one can thrive and their community not thrive. I think the black community in the usa is exhibit A of a community where individuals thrive but the community rottens. from the end of the war between the states to today, it can be argued, black individuals have thrived as presidents/supreme court jusitces, billionaires, millionaires, but the black communities black churches/historical black colleges, negro leagues, institutions are clearly less than in the past, the nation of islam as well..., every single black organization gets weaker over time in the usa not stronger. so... the strong individuals, if you judge strength by financial success or position in government,  are leading themselves, but that is not making a great black community in the usa. 

    I communicated very poorly again, I have learned through personal experience , that no heritage ever dies, it becomes small somestimes, sometimes it becomes really large, but it never dies completely. My point is that the black community in the usa since the war between the states has never been able to settle itself and thus through white negative influence <reconstruction/kkk/jim crow/big city governments during white flight> or constant new groups of black people coming in everywhere <from jamaica/haiti/trinidad/nigeria/ghana/south africa/various places in europe/various places in south america/ various places in asia> the black community in the past or now doesn't have enough time to find a center, cause new black groups or new white negative influences are always coming. The DOSers dislike of so many Black modern immigrant groups, or vice versa,  is my proof. 

     

     

    @Mel Hopkinsisntitutions are the symbols of a communities strength. 

     

    As a computer engineer I have experience with peer to peer networks, peer to peer networks by default are individual collections. They are very loose and while they can create in a quick amount of time utility their great weakness is the lack of a center. Which is the symbol of community. 

     

    Black is a phenotypical race, not an ancestry race, like german american, but you are correct in population numbers. it is racially fair to compare to black americans to white americans but ok. 

     

    Mel I comprehend the strategy you refer to. Maybe you think I don't. You or @Delano I don't think comprehend my point. I think the black community in the usa at the time of the war between the states was being led by black leaders to be what it is now. That was why Frederick Douglass pushed for black integration to whites. You speak of enslaved africans but frederick douglass despised the back to africa movement or even black people leaving the usa. His viewpoint is what you consider modern.  I think if you back track my comments in this group they will confirm I have said this many times. but the end result of that, can not deliver a collective freedom for a majority of black people in the usa. And I must add, black communities in different countries have different situations. the usa is not the place for the kind of communalism that many black people in the usa clearly want or need. I am not knocking your stated strategy but I am opposing the idea that said strategy is an improvement as much as an eventuality based on the history of the black community.

     

     

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