richardmurray

Universal Basic Income is coming, fiscal capitalism with modern technological capabilities deletes the need for physical toiling human labor, in regions in humanity that have the militaristic power + natural resources to maintainthe technological capability. But what are some general problems? Giving money allows for those, like telemarketers, like similar scammers to acquire large profits. How can they be stopped absent a level of legal criminalization to such activities that is absent in the financially wealthiest governments. No modern multiracial populaces has a consistent legal or administrative history of providing any service equally to individuals regardless of their race: gender/phenotype/age/language/edutation level/health/financial value. So how can universal basic income? The ability of the usa to raise its own debt or generate more debt for itself absent a fear of debt collection by its military power allows for a severe abuse in its general populace The prime problem i see in the Black populace in the usa, the phenotypical race made up of Black: DOSers/Caribbeana/Africana/Asiana/First Peoples, is the belief from many Black people in the usa that black people, not non blacks , are inadequate or irresponsible or something similar to have Universal Basic Income. For Black DOSers this comes from the legacy of enslavement and the minority of Blacks circa 1865 who were able to overcome white terror who suggested all black people could overcome said white terror but lacked something to do it. Finland’s universal basic income trial made people happier—but not employed By Charlotte Jee February 11, 2019 A trial where unemployed people in Finland were given a basic income for two years did not get them into work—but it make them healthier and happier, according to initial results. [ https://julkaisut.valtioneuvosto.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/161361/Report_The Basic Income Experiment 20172018 in Finland.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y OR https://1drv.ms/b/c/ea9004809c2729bb/ETkUV74BKBlJrvXrruWIjFcBkmRyuTzQGqIF8iPqGMceOQ?e=O5jIJI ] The experiment: From January 2017 to December 2018, 2,000 unemployed people in Finland received an unconditional monthly payment of €560 ($634) instead of their usual unemployment benefit (a similar sum). The goal was to see if this would help them get back to work. The pilot found that basic income recipients were no more likely to find work than a control group who did not receive the payments. However, they reported significantly better overall well-being. A final report on the trial will be released in 2020. Universal basic income: The idea [ https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/06/20/141704/basic-income-could-work-if-you-do-it-canada-style/ ] is to give everyone the same monthly income, regardless of means. It’s a concept that’s grown in popularity in recent years, as part of thinking around how to combat job losses and insecurity caused by automation. It has also been tested in Canada, Namibia, India, and other countries. [ https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/12/27/103611/universal-basic-income-had-a-rough-2018/ ] Is that it?: Inevitably, the results from Finland raise questions about whether UBI works. However, it’s worth pointing out that the data only covers 2017, the first year of the trial, and it’s questionable whether focusing solely on people who are unemployed can really qualify as a “universal” basic income. We’ve got extra data to work with, but the debate is far from settled. by Charlotte Jee URL https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/02/11/66119/finlands-universal-basic-income-trial-made-people-happier-but-not-employed/ LINKED IN THE ARTICLE ABOVE Basic income could work—if you do it Canada-style A Canadian province is giving people money with no strings attached—revealing both the appeal and the limitations of the idea. By Brian Bergsteinarchive page June 20, 2018 Dana Bowman, 56, expresses gratitude for fresh produce at least 10 times in the hour and a half we’re having coffee on a frigid spring day in Lindsay, Ontario. Over the many years she scraped by on government disability payments, she tended to stick to frozen vegetables. She’d also save by visiting a food bank or buying marked-down items near or past their sell-by date. But since December, Bowman has felt secure enough to buy fresh fruit and vegetables. She’s freer, she says, to “do what nanas do” for her grandchildren, like having all four of them over for turkey on Easter. Now that she can afford the transportation, she might start taking classes in social work in a nearby city. She feels happier and healthier—and, she says, so do many other people in her subsidized apartment building and around town. “I’m seeing people smiling and seeing people friendlier, saying hi more,” she says. Jim Garbutt sees moods brightening, too, at A Buy & Sell Shop, a store he and his wife run on Lindsay’s main street. Sales are brisker for most of what they sell: used furniture, kitchen items, novelties. A Buy & Sell Shop is the kind of place where people come in just to chat—“we’re like Cheers, without the alcohol,” Garbutt says—and more and more people seem hopeful. “Spirits are up,” he says. What changed? Lindsay, a compact rectangle amid the lakes northeast of Toronto, is at the heart of one of the world’s biggest tests of a guaranteed basic income. In a three-year pilot funded by the provincial government, about 4,000 people in Ontario are getting monthly stipends to boost them to at least 75 percent of the poverty line. That translates to a minimum annual income of $17,000 in Canadian dollars (about $13,000 US) for single people, $24,000 for married couples. Lindsay has about half the people in the pilot—some 10 percent of the town’s population. The trial is expected to cost $50 million a year in Canadian dollars; expanding it to all of Canada would cost an estimated $43 billion annually. But Hugh Segal, the conservative former senator who designed the test, thinks it could save the government money in the long run. He expects it to streamline the benefits system, remove rules that discourage people from working, and reduce crime, bad health, and other costly problems that stem from poverty. Such improvements occurred during a basic-income test in Manitoba in the 1970s. People far beyond Canada will be watching closely, too, because a basic income has become Silicon Valley’s favorite answer to the question of how society should deal with the massive automation of jobs. Tech investors such as Facebook cofounder Chris Hughes and Sam Altman, president of the startup incubator Y Combinator, are funding pilot projects to examine what people do when they get money with no strings attached. Hughes’s Economic Security Project will pay for 100 people in Stockton, California, to get $500 a month for 18 months. Y Combinator ran a small-scale test in Oakland, California, last year; beginning in 2019 it will give $1,000 a month to 1,000 people over three to five years, in locations still to be determined. This momentum figures to keep building as AI and robotics make even more inroads. Legislators in Hawaii are beginning to study the prospects for a basic income. The lawmaker who has led the effort, Democrat Chris Lee, worries that self-driving cars and automated retail checkout could be the beginning of the end for a lot of human labor in Hawaii’s service-based economy. If machines can handle tasks in tourism and hospitality, Lee says, “there is no fallback industry for jobs to be created in.” But there’s an important difference between that vision for a basic income and the experiment in Ontario. The Canadians are testing it as an efficient antipoverty mechanism, a way to give a relatively small segment of the population more flexibility to find work and to strengthen other strands of the safety net. That’s not what Silicon Valley seems to imagine, which is a universal basic income that placates broad swaths of the population. The most obvious problem with that idea? Math. Many economists concluded long ago that it would be too expensive, especially when compared with the cost of programs to create new jobs and train people for them. That’s why the idea didn’t take off after tests in the 1960s and ’70s. It’s largely why Finland decided not to extend a small basic income trial. If any place can illuminate both the advantages of basic income and the problems it can’t solve, it will be Lindsay. The town is prosperous by some measures, with a median household income of $55,000 and a historic downtown district where new condos and a craft brewery are on the way. But that masks how tough it is for a lot of people to get by. Manufacturing in the surrounding area, known as the Kawartha Lakes, has declined since the 1980s. Many people juggle multiple jobs, including seasonal work tied to tourism in the summer and fall. Technology is part of the story too: robots milk cows now. Basic income as a social equalizer The Olde Gaol Museum is indeed an old jail, but it’s also a showcase for things that reveal the texture of Lindsay’s history—uniforms that nurses from town wore in France during World War I; tools and maps used by railway workers when this was a hub for eight railroad lines; 19th-century paintings by a local artist who depicted the timeless regional pastimes of canoeing and fishing. When curatorial assistant Ian McKechnie gives me a tour, he stops and plays a lovely tune on a foot-pumped organ called a harmonium that was made in Ontario more than a hundred years ago. McKechnie, 27, has worked at the museum for seven years and is devoted to it. Unlike his previous job, when he was briefly a laborer at a goat cheese factory, it offers a chance to be creative and connect with many people in the community. He doesn’t just give tours: he researches and organizes exhibits and writes supporting materials. But on the day we meet, the museum is not paying him to be at work, and therein lies a story about why he and the Olde Gaol’s operations supervisor, Lisa Hart, both signed up for the basic income. The museum gets almost all its revenue from grants, and one just expired. The manager of the museum recently left, and so it falls largely to McKechnie and Hart to keep things going until another grant comes in. Even when it does, these won’t be lucrative jobs—perhaps $20,000 a year for McKechnie’s. They could find positions in the area that pay more, but both would much rather continue their labor of love at the museum. Leaving now might undercut its momentum toward a more sustainable future, which could include a new cultural center that would connect the museum with a local art gallery. Thanks to the basic-income trial, both can afford to stay on with the museum. And in the meantime, Hart says, she will no longer put off buying new eyeglasses. The basic income “allows you to spend time on something that’s valuable,” she says. “It’s very sad to walk away from something where you’re valued and doing something meaningful for the community because it just can’t pay you a lot.” This highlights an intriguing aspect of basic income: it functions in different ways for different people. The way Hart describes it, it’s fuel for cultural development. For Dana Bowman, who might now take classes in social work and regularly volunteers at a community garden, it’s a food subsidy, an educational grant, and a neighborhood improvement fund all in one. For a married couple who own a health-food restaurant that barely covers its costs, it’s a small-business booster. A man who hurt his back working in a warehouse told me he hoped it could augment his employer’s disability payments. A student who was about to graduate from a technical college and had a job lined up said he planned to use the extra income to pay down school loans and start saving for a house. For McKechnie, the basic income is something broader: a social equalizer, a recognition that people who make little or no money are often doing things that are socially valuable. “It gives one the assurance that the work you’re doing is not in vain, even though you’re not working in a bank or doing other things that are considered part of a career,” he says. Even if a basic income turns out to be a flexible and efficient government program, it’s not clear that it would be a great way to respond to technological unemployment. Over and over again, people in Lindsay told me it won’t reduce people’s demand for jobs. As a practical matter, the Ontario trial doesn’t pay enough to eliminate most people’s need to work or to rely on family for support. But even if a richer payout were feasible, that wouldn’t change the philosophy of the program. Basic-income supporters want to improve the odds that people will take better care of themselves and their families. They want a humane and dignifying way of helping people who simply can’t work. But they also argue that most people generally want and expect to work. “It’s not supposed to be welfare for people displaced by technology,” says one of the basic-income advocates, Mike Perry, who runs a medical practice in Kawartha Lakes. Moreover, while giving poor people money helps them, it still leaves urgent and difficult questions unanswered about the impacts of automation and globalization. What will it take to ensure that entire regions aren’t left far behind economically? What can be done to boost the supply of good, steady jobs? Basic income “is only the beginning,” says Roderick Benns, former vice chair of the Ontario Basic Income Network. “It’s not just ‘cut a check and get on with building the corporatocracy.’ We have to ask what else we are doing as a society to get people to reimagine what they can do with their lives.” Benns, the author of several books, grew up in Lindsay. Until recently, he and his wife, Joli Scheidler-Benns, lived three hours away, but the pilot is so important to them that they moved back so he can chronicle it in a new publication called the Lindsay Advocate and she can do research for her PhD on the subject at York University. After Benns describes how basic income should augment job training and other social programs, Scheidler-Benns, who is originally from Michigan, nods and then adds: “I don’t see how it could work in the US.” After all, she says, Canada does many other things to strengthen its safety net and reduce inequality. For one, it has universal health care. School funding in Ontario is primarily allocated at the province level rather than being heavily dependent on local property taxes, as it is in the US. Canada also traditionally spends about 1 percent of its GDP on workforce-development programs, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. That’s about half of the proportion in other advanced countries, but it still dwarfs the US figure, which is about 0.3 percent. Funding a different mind-set Tony Tilly is the outgoing president of Fleming College, which specializes in preparing people in Kawartha Lakes for careers in both white-collar work and trades. About half the students don’t come right from high school; they’ve already been in the workforce and hope to learn a new skill. He supports a basic income because he thinks it could help people break out of poverty that has beset their families for generations. But even if the program continues past the three-year trial period, Fleming’s essential challenge would remain: how to prepare students for a world in which more and more tasks are being automated. Fleming is still priming its graduates to work in traditional strongholds of the regional economy: jobs tied to the environment and natural resources, infrastructure development, mining, construction, and government. But the school is trying to instill a different mind-set from the one students had when Tilly became its president 14 years ago. They now get more emphasis on so-called soft skills: teamwork, problem-solving, personal interaction. Above all, he says, they need to know “not only how to do some particular job but how to contribute overall to the success of an organization, whether it’s a manufacturer or a provider of social services.” If the basic-income plan works as expected, Fleming might get even more students than it otherwise would. Dana Bowman could be one of them. It’s been years since she last had a paying job, as a receptionist. She has been on disability for a variety of ailments, including skin cancer and arthritis. But she feels she is up to doing some part-time work. In 2015, two years before the basic-income trial, Bowman asked a case worker if she could get help paying for transportation to a Fleming campus that offers classes in social work. The official said that would lead to cuts in other benefits Bowman relied on. The message Bowman says she got was: “You’re unemployable. You’re not worth investing in.” In contrast, the basic-income plan ensures a minimum for her without micromanaging how she spends it. For every dollar that recipients earn above the minimum, their payout from the province will be cut by 50 cents, but no one is made worse off by working. Even being able to consider that prospect, Bowman says, has been good for her. “I don’t feel ‘less than.’ I feel ‘equal to.’ Not feeling guilty walking down the street, thinking, ‘I didn’t do enough today,’” she says. “People want to do something. People aren’t inclined to do nothing.” by Brian Bergstein URL https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/06/20/141704/basic-income-could-work-if-you-do-it-canada-style/ Last Edition https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/11377-economiccorner004/ Tool Deviantart Dreamup prompt: diamond italian renaissance door constructed by Lorenzo Ghiberti explaining Universal Basic Income artstyle dreamup aspect ratio 3:4 prompt strength 20 negative prompt : dull, poor lighting, multiple images,uneven POST URL https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/11402-economiccorner005/ PRIOR EDITION https://aalbc.com/tc/events/event/598-economic-corner-4-december-17th-2024/ NEXT EDITION https://aalbc.com/tc/events/event/142-economic-corner-6-january-6th-2025 / 01/09/2026 https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12270-has-universal-income-gotten-closer-to-being-needed/#comment-79118 @umbrarchist I don't know where. I have guesses but universal basic income if implemented is going to be such a large volume of money, the upper echelons of finance and power will have to have a say in it. @ProfD hmm 350 million is approximately the population in the usa. ten percent is 35 million. One percent is three point five million. so circa fifty two point five million need to be umemployed. Isn't that number already unemployed in the usa? white people say https://theworlddata.com/welfare-statistics-in-us/ The welfare system in America 2025 continues to serve as a critical safety net for millions of individuals and families facing economic hardship across the nation. These comprehensive programs provide essential support through food assistance, cash benefits, healthcare coverage, housing aid, and tax credits designed to help low-income households meet their basic needs. The United States welfare programs include major initiatives such as the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), Medicaid, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF), Housing Choice Vouchers, and the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), all administered by various federal agencies in partnership with state and local governments. As of 2025, the total government spending on welfare across federal, state, and local levels reached approximately $1.5 trillion, with Medicaid accounting for $742 billion and other welfare programs totaling $757 billion. These programs collectively assist more than 72.5 million Americans during an average month, representing a substantial portion of the population that relies on government assistance to address food insecurity, healthcare access, housing stability, and income support. The welfare landscape reflects ongoing economic challenges, demographic shifts, and policy adjustments aimed at balancing assistance needs with fiscal responsibility while maintaining program integrity and effectiveness. the CPS says that only 4.4% of the population is unemployed but that makes no sense , because most children don't work. if the usa has three hundred and fifty million people and one percent of three hundred and fifty million people is three million and five hundred thousand people, then five percent is seventeen million and five hundred thousand. So the metropolitan populace of NYC is twenty three million. If we round and measure loosely, then the population of NYC metropolitan is unemployed and the rest of the usa population is working, man woman and child. that is a lie. And with at least 72 million americans receiving assistance, I argue why is that number less relevant than unemployed? Why is it the horde of mcdonalds/wendy's workers who allow for unemployment percentage to be low more important than most of them have public assistance? figures from here https://www.bls.gov/cps/latest-numbers.htm The way the department of labor and others calculates labor is statistically manufactured. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/wb/data/Employment-Unemployment In summary, since this is the economic corner, the idea of universal basic income being needed with unemployment at 15% is dysfunctional for me. the unemployment percentage must first be recalculated with the intention of honest first and if it can't be then it is time to use the percentage of financially assisted people, cause if you need financial assistance, you are poor. And said people needing financial assistance is already over the fifteen percent threshold you state. @Pioneer1 good questions, financially valid question/issues you raise. all of them are in the debates now, you know. those in power will dictate the details. I can only add what I think on the three questions. What will exactly happen? I don't know. UBI is a big thing financially. it is a game changer so whatever happens, and even if it doesn't happen, will have repercussions. Before I speak on the questions/issues and state my cases. If UBI don't happen. then violence will grow and i guess the police state industry will grow. but I don't see how industries in the usa can continually raise prices and the violence from the masses not reach a potency unable to be contained or controlled by the police state. But, maybe SCrumpt is beginning that era. I Don't see how it can survive for two hundred and fifty years with the source of the violence being industries in the usa making cost of living too high. You can have drones and machine cops and electronic distinct security systems and tagging people to quell violence but I don't see how that can last over a hundred years with the violence inevitably having to grow with the way the industries raise the cost of living. And I want to end my introduction saying again, Pioneer, you and many black people I have heard or read in my lifetime talk about the rule of law. and it has a heritage for black people in the usa. We were enslaved to whites. before the usa was founded. The law, not black violence towards whites, not black fiscal activity when whites allowed, has been how black people have personally or financially grown in these lands from european colonial circa 1492 to 2026. So breaking the law is big, cause the black populace in the usa never had the ability to grant welfare checks to failed black businesses, like the white populace did for whites who completely failed their businesses offer free land to penniless blacks, like the white populace did for penniless whites offer unevenly paid labor to penniless blacks, like the white populace did for penniless whites So I get it.Black people have always been in an uneven financial /legal environment in the usa, negatively biased or negatively favored to us. But 2026 and the coming future, we have to change how we talk about ourselves when it comes to the law. well onto my thoughts to your questions and remember, I Don't know what will happen. yes I have opinions but, we will all see , what happens. it makes sense that breaking the law will reduce the income you get. The usa has a long heritage of legal precedence like that especially concerning black people, with one caveat that only in the late 1900s did black people have enough elected officials to even remotely look out for black interest. Your forgetting cost of living? even if UBI was given right now, if it doesn't come with manipulations to cost of living industries, especially the real estate industry, then it doesn't offer a change in the current situation even if implemented and I argue this is why it is going through this long process. Because three industries will need to be overhauled completely: health/home/food. the health industry keeps going up and up in cost, that has to stop. rents or real estate evaluations keep going up and up, that has to stop. Food costs keep going up and up, that has to stop. IF those three things don't stop going up and up unendingly then UBI will be dysfunctional if not instantly , eventually, once implemented. Arguably all the financial industries including fiscal scams need the door closed on said industries. thus a process. And that goes back to the heritage of financial scams. Again, how much money would black people have if not for white burnings of our towns, white thefts of property and money. how much if not for enslavement to whites. how much if not sharecropping to whites. sharecropping is no different than the financial scams of today. The strongest financial heritage of the usa is financial scams in fiscal capitalism and blaming the people abused not the scammer, whether the scammer be an enslaver committing a legal criminal act or sheriff using their badge/status to evade prosecution of their illegalities or crimes or whomever... including specific types of other black people. Said specific types aren't thieves and drug dealers. Said specific types are black churches who scam and cheat money for the community, black home owners who scam and cheat black renters. black elected officials who scame and cheat money through legislation. inflation is headed to an untenable place, before UBI. The reality UBI's philosophical opponent is the uneven bootstraps personal accountability model which was always disingenuous. That is how the fiat business model in the 1970s got to this point. The idea of printing your own money backed by your military isn't new, but the usa's white populace in control , in cheap hindsight, made a huge error. It was so worried about diminishing white wealth at the top that it allowed administrative inefficiencies to fester and thrive in at the fiscal top of the ownership/shareholder class till now the entire business community in the usa is filled with welfare recipients, who are completely safe from the bootstrap personal accountability narrative, ala too big too fail. If I look at the usa from the 1970s, the airline industry completely failed at least three times. The oil industry failed once. The automotive industry completely or 90% failed two times. The banking industry completely failed two times. The film industry completely failed three times. The crypto industry completely failed two times. The real estate industry completely failed three times. The electronics industry completely failed once. Many other industries like hospitals or fast food chains have slashed their inefficient buildups like star bucks or some hospital chains. What is my point? The biggest inflationary generator is the welfare state for all the failed firms. The following firms based on their financial history had at least one year where they were completely bankrupt, bankrupt defined as unable to pay their bills after four quarters, and didn't go into bankruptcy that year but were allowed to retain existence through legal but financially uneven means welfare check from the government which the government paid by printing money some sale to another firm who grew its debt to buy the carcass debts paid through the stock market which has in itself unregulated or financially uneven actors who added debt to themselves to buy shares Apple NEtflix Google General Motors Warner Bros Chrysler Facebook OpenAI twitter all the airlines a number of theater chains mall chains starbucks and many other fast food chains am*zon exxon goldman sachs jp morgan General electric universal studios most bitcoins or datamined currencies most ai systems most hospital chains most real estate sony, not even in the usa but i read that it is actually mostly owned, through shares, by people in the usa. many retirement plans, not all but many I can't think of one firm or financial institution touted heavily in media in the usa that hasn't gone bankrupt as I see it in the past fifty years and should not exist today then if one treats all firms or financial institutions the same way So, saving all those firms above is the cause of inflation Pioneer in the past fifty years. Cause whether it is the government printing money adding debt to the federal government other firms adding debt to pay for their carcasses new/old shareholders adding debt to pay for the shares of their carcasses I don't see any financially even reason why any of those firms mentioned above and most of their peers in the usa should exist today. They are all failed firms, and for the investment banks/automotive companies/crypto/real estate industries I was aware for them, I was present of mind to see each of them have a complete financial collapse. So no one can give me any financially valid reason those four sectors should exist with the actors they do today. Goldman should completely liquidated. To this day I still hear black people, goldman got those MIT graduates. Well, clearly MIT doesn't help a financial firm with billions of dollars of transactions per year, arguably the most of any financial firm in the world save itself from receivership. The Goldman with all their MIT graduates went to Washington DC and begged for a welfare check and got it. so... I don't want to hear about some black person somewhere with their few hundred grand mismanaging money and not warranting aid this way or that way. Crypto , again with all the asians , especially chinese, and supposedly smart folk , completely collapsed. Where was china's genious work force to save crypto? Instead a bunch of rich people with the help of Goldman and company, already saved by welfare check, bought up all the crypto assets with debt. again.. I don't want to hear about some black person on a nine to five job mishandling funds not warranting aid this way or that way. The automotive companies who at one time in human history had a over ninety percent market share of the global automotive industry, was given a welfare check by the government. I read ford didn't want the check and was going to refinance, which means add debt to cover the expenses of the firm, but the federal government didn't allow that for some reason, one day I will research and hopefully see why the federal government didn't allow it. So don't tell me about some black athlete who wasted millions not warranting aid this way or that way. The real estate industry has collapsed multiple times and yet, somehow is allowed to be continually refinanced through debt. The real estate industry was even allowed to continue operation in NYC when small businesses were forced to close. why? If the construction workers can keep building buildings while the virus is about why are small businesses forced to shut down for the virus? The real estate industry was so indebted that it was allowed to skip the shutdown that many other industries were forced to do, which hurt and hindered many other industries. So, again, don't speak to me about a black homeless person not getting their act together and not warranting aid this way or that. And my talk of warranting aid this way or that way completes the circle on universal basic income. The USA as it did after the war between the states, letting completely impoverished formerly rich white southerners retain their property and financial accounts, not treating them like benedict arnolds, and allowing them to continue financially uneven hiring practices through jim crow era. the second white european imperial war, commonly called war world 2, letting completely impoverished formerly rich white europeans in western europe or white asians in japan recover their real estate, bank accounts plus giving them welfare checks worth their entire industrial or financial footing today. has saved countless completely impoverished formerly rich whites, and some non whites in the usa retain their wealth through an unbounded debt allowances. So adding inflation for giving the fiscal poor money in my eyes is at the most financially warranted or at the least financially allowable based on recent past precedence. 01/10/2026 @ProfD yes, but the millions who are unable to work, not cannot work, for one external reason or another, is the issue. Based on the definitions below, when we talk about the black populace in the usa the statistics for employment, don't consider black people in the armed forces which for many black people in small black towns is their only upward mobility black people in prison cause the black populace doesn't have the ability to generate or access labor pools with jobs that provide adequate revenue for par standard of living. black people in old folks homes which has only grown over time. then you take the black populace outside the three above who are considered in the employment statistic and the following are not considered employed black people who volunteer without pay, which is alot of black people since the 1800s. When black people were teaching ourselves how to read the black people who did it for free and only got room and board wouldn't be considered cause food and board isn't money. Alot of the black panthers would not be considered with the school food program. Black people in unpaid internships or training programs, which is many black people Black housewives is not considered even though many black women in recent immigrant communities are housewives. So the 4.4% isn't related to 100% of the populace . it is a percentage of a percentage, that mostly blocks out people who are working. Just not getting money. Black soldiers[who are working cause being a soldier is work]+black imprisoned [note: who actually do work alot still and rarely get their proper wage scale ala 13th amendment slavey status]+black people in home care or old folks[many of whom make other... younger, black peoples lives possible with their retirement benefits]+ black poor people getting food and board doing volunteer work[which is usually off books sporadic and thus not in the polling time]+ black students getting unpaid internships or training[which is very often but is work, internships are work, i remember internships as a student, unpaid, that is work]+ black housewives who actually have to clean the house and similar chores are all not included in the percentage of people considered for unemployment[that is definitely work]. so...the issue isn't unable to work, it is a statistic not including many who do work, because it will show that the black populace at least is not lazy, is full of people working, BUT they are not:) getting a good wage. white man says https://www.bls.gov/cps/definitions.htm Employment-population ratio The employment-population ratio represents the number of employed people as a percentage of the civilian noninstitutional population. In other words, it is the percentage of the population that is currently working. The employment-population ratio is calculated as: (Employed ÷ Civilian Noninstitutional Population) x 100. https://www.bls.gov/cps/definitions.htm#employed Employed In the Current Population Survey (CPS), people are classified as employed if, during the survey reference week, they meet any of the following criteria: worked at least 1 hour as a paid employee (see wage and salary workers) worked at least 1 hour in their own business, profession, trade, or farm (see self-employed) were temporarily absent from their job, business, or farm, whether or not they were paid for the time off (see with a job, not at work) worked without pay for a minimum of 15 hours in a business or farm owned by a member of their family (see unpaid family workers) For criteria 1 and 2, the work must be for pay or profit; that is, the individual receives a wage or salary, profits or fees, or payment in kind (such as housing, meals, or supplies received in place of cash wages). For the self-employed, this includes those who intended to earn a profit but whose business or farm produced a loss. See the definition of self-employed for further details. Each employed person is counted only once in aggregate employment statistics from the CPS, even if they hold more than one job. The following are not considered employment in the CPS. volunteer work unpaid internships unpaid training programs training programs not sponsored by an employer, even if the trainee receives a public assistance payment for attending National Guard or Reserve duty (weekend or summer training) ownership in a business or farm solely for investment purposes, with no participation in its management or operation jury duty work around one's home such as cleaning, painting, repairing, or other housework or home improvement project https://www.bls.gov/cps/definitions.htm#population Civilian noninstitutional population The civilian noninstitutional population age 16 and older is the base population group, or universe, used for Current Population Survey (CPS) statistics published by BLS. (See also geographic scope and reference of the CPS.) The civilian noninstitutional population excludes the following: active duty members of the U.S. Armed Forces people confined to, or living in, institutions or facilities such as prisons, jails, and other correctional institutions and detention centers residential care facilities such as skilled nursing homes Included in the civilian noninstitutional population are citizens of foreign countries who reside in the United States but do not live on the premises of an embassy. @Pioneer1 as our elders said in the 1950s. The sad truth about labor statistics in the usa is how they are often cited by many from the mid 1900s to now and yet, that entire time frame people, black + non black, have called them hogwash, the dirty water cleaning the pig. hmm I don't think anything , anything is easy. Doable? yes, positive possibility? yes, positive probability in attempt? yes... Easy? never, nothing is easy. well, is any government smart? a government isn't one person... no government in human history is one person, the myth of the tyrannical madman controlling all on a throne is just that,an untrue myth. To say any government is smart or dumb is to suggest an average of mentality which can not be proven. Strong governments are ones in which their will gets applied. Weak governments are ones in which their will gets applied. Gardless of the mental quality of the people in a government, a government can be strong or weak. The war between the states didn't happen because the usa government was smart or dumb , it happened because the usa government was strong , even though it included the likes of Abraham Lincoln, considered by many to be one of the smartest presidents, who opposed the war. Most in the government of the usa at that time wanted war, and were powerful enough to apply to war. The congress in the usa has a majority of elected officials who don't want to do the work needed to make legislation that brings advantage to all in a populace of over three hundred and fifty million people who are not all of white european descent. So they are doing nothing. Now if advocacy movements were getting elected officials in congress to push for wise legislation you can say the congress is weak cause the members don't want to do that but are being forced to by an external group. Be careful giving false praise or false condemnation. you made a statement, this is the economic corner, tell me one thing they provide that is needed. I repeated the list you can copy and paste and simply write the one needed thing each provide. Apple- NEtflix- Google- General Motors- Warner Bros- Chrysler- Facebook- OpenAI- twitter- all the airlines- a number of theater chains- mall chains- starbucks and many other fast food chains- am*zon- exxon- goldman sachs- jp morgan- General electric- universal studios- most bitcoins or datamined currencies- most ai systems- most hospital chains- most real estate- I will make my argument against any of them producing anything needed. Apple- apple has never produced a needed good, every single device or software they made could be sold off in bankruptcy, and made open source. NEtflix- never produced a needed good, streaming has always had multiple agents and their entire streaming service, including their communication hubs could be sold off in bankruptcy to the highest bigger. Google- never produced a needed good, its assets could had been sold off in bankruptcy or given to open source. Competitors would had bought server systems or software went to open source or non bought server systems went to colleges or universities in a second selling off. General Motors- never produced a needed good, this country has always had multiple and small auto manufacturers, if general motors assets were put up for auction in a bankruptcy, they small automakers or others would claim what they needed and could increase their volume. Warner Bros- never produced a needed good Chrysler- like General motors, see above. Facebook- like google, see above. OpenAI- like facebook, see above twitter- like openai all the airlines- never produced a needed good, most arilines don't even make planes so all their aircraft after bankruptcy can be sold and regional competitors or private individuals can buy the content or it can be resold on the international market. a number of theater chains- never produced a needed good, each theater chain is mostly real estate which can be sold and if not given to the state. the machines to show movies can be sold to auction, private individuals will buy a few, the rest can go to schools. mall chains- never produced a needed good, each mall is real estate, each location can be sold after bankruptcy. starbucks and many other fast food chains- never produced a needed good, mostly real estate, secondarily food machines, afer bankruptcy the real estate can be sold and the food machines can be sold, some people will get nice food machines in their homes. am*zon- never produced a needed good, the shipping aspect is real estate and warehouse machines all sellable to auction after bankruptcy, the financial services are bank accounts which should be liquidated after bankruptcy,the electronic devices + machines to make them+ software can all be sold after bankruptcy or made open source. exxon- never produced a needed good, after bankruptcy, all the oil fields can be sold [ at best each to an individual] the tankers can be sold, their are other oil producers and inviduals can enter. The refineries can be sold after bankruptcy. And if not given to colleges as training areas or broken up into parts for use in other industries. goldman sachs- never produced a needed good, all their bank accounts or financial transaction accounts should be liquidated and the financial software sold or made open source, the financial reports or private information held by a private legal entity for the individuals it pertains too. jp morgan- like goldman sachs, see above General electric- never produced a needed good, all their manufacturing plants for their various parts can be sold to auction after bankruptcy, anything not sold can go to colleges in an open grab. their real estate sold after bankruptcy. their computer software or server systems can be sold or made open source. universal studios- like waner bros, see above most bitcoins or datamined currencies- never produced a needed good, all the real estate can be sold after bankruptcy, all the server systems can be sold individually to unique buyers and then secondarily in components, the individual servers in the chain, and then thirdly in elements, the parts that make up each individual server unit. most ai systems- like bitcoin, see above most hospital chains- never produced a needed good, most city or state governments have government hospitals so after bankruptcy all the medical technology can be bought by the state to use in government run hospitals or in auction to private individuals or boutique hospitals, the real estate can be sold or demolished for spare land, paid for by the hospital. most real estate- never produced a needed good, after bankruptcy , all real estate that is not paid for can be taken by the government and resold or demolished paid for as a tax write off based on the cost of destruction and taken off the debt by the bankrupt realtor. Not one firm I listed in my eyes makes a needed good. Not one. Some will say , what about investors to all of these failures. Bankruptcy denies the possibility of investors to recoup any investment. And I say, an old song by a white man exist, which is what those investors need to learn. Knowing or Learning how to lose is apart of financial reality, fighting it is a mistake On a warm summer's evening On a train bound for nowhere I met up with a gambler We were both too tired to sleep So we took turns a-staring Out the window at the darkness 'Til boredom overtook us And he began to speak He said, "Son, I've made a life Out of readin' people's faces Knowing what the cards were By the way they held their eyes So if you don't mind my saying I can see you're out of aces For a taste of your whiskey I'll give you some advice" So I handed him my bottle And he drank down my last swallow Then he bummed a cigarette And asked me for a light And the night got deathly quiet And his face lost all expression Said, "If you're gonna play the game, boy You gotta learn to play it right" You got to know when to hold 'em Know when to fold 'em Know when to walk away And know when to run You never count your money When you're sittin' at the table There'll be time enough for countin' When the dealing's done Every gambler knows That the secret to surviving Is knowing what to throw away Knowing what to keep 'Cause every hand's a winner And every hand's a loser And the best that you can hope for Is to die in your sleep And when he finished speaking He turned back toward the window Crushed out his cigarette And faded off to sleep And somewhere in the darkness The gambler, he broke even And in his final words I found an ace that I could keep You got to know when to hold 'em Know when to fold 'em Know when to walk away And know when to run You never count your money When you're sittin' at the table There'll be time enough for countin' When the dealing's done You got to know when to hold 'em (when to hold 'em) Know when to fold 'em (when to fold 'em) Know when to walk away And know when to run You never count your money When you're sittin' at the table There'll be time enough for countin' When the dealing's done You got to know when to hold 'em Know when to fold 'em Know when to walk away And know when to run You never count your money When you're sittin' at the table There'll be time enough for countin' When the dealing's done Songwriters: Don Schlitz. ProfD Members 6.8k LocationWashington DC area Posted just now @richardmurray...maybe the white folks will read your dissertation above and be motivated to speed up the Universal Basic Income (UBI). However, if/when UBI comes to fruition, rest assured that Black folks will get the shortest end of it. Boycott am*zon 4k Author Posted 1 minute ago @ProfD I think it is interesting how black people view our own employment as a group in the usa, we all often cite percentages white people made that when you look at it, are dishonest about our situation as a people in the usa. I know i wrote a lote but i do think , if the stranger reads my work, I hope to have a balanced position. I don't want anyone to take my word for it. I want to support what I am saying, thus the verbosity. I think it is functional. To shortest end, let's be blunt, the black populace started its journey in the usa 90% enslaved. Nothing is shorter than that. So, based on Black Descended of Enslaved history which started alongside the white european enslavers. late 1400s in the lands of the people commonly called native americans, why should black people get the longest end of anything? evenness? justice? but where does the source of justice or evenness come in the usa for black peoples, especially descended of enslaved? Remember, white wealth or power doesn't come from today, it comes from the past. A past in which white peoples forebears killed First Peoples and took their land and Enslaved Black folk. Giving them a huge mountain of generational wealth that they made sure they kept for themselves. Wealth that had nothing to do with the USA. I know you know the history. But, Remember, Black wealth or power comes from today, not the past. First Peoples wealth or power comes from today, not the past. In the past meaning late 1400s to mid 1900s 90% of black wealth in the european colonies that preceded the usa or the usa itself was taken/burned/destroyed/stolen by whites. All 90% of DOSers have from our past is our spirit or will , no financial inheritance. Half of all whites have an inheritance which stems from the past. So yes, a shortest end, but what else could it be, if anyone is honest about the history of black people in the usa or the white european colonies that preceded it? Remember financially, black people's overall condition didn't change at all with the revolutionary war. our condition was the same from 1492 to 1865. Then we had jim crow from 1865 to 1980. from 1980 to 2026 is 46 years. 46 years of being in a situation white people were in from 1492. That isn't an even situation, financially. 600 years of total white communal opportunity can not be equivalenced with 46 years of majority black communal activity? 3 minutes ago, ProfD said: Of course, because they are nosey as h8ll. well done:) 01/11/2026 @Pioneer1 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Smart and dumb are relative to what the subject is being compared to. And that is why I shouldn't had replied. I was foolish in replying to your point about smart and dumb because if we don't see those two identities as the same way, then outside of trying to convince each other, which I at least have always spoken against. I hate proselytizing. Then nothing to talk about really. I made a mistake. I hope not to make again. 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: With the exception of bitcoin and possibility twitter and goldman sachs, all of the other corporations and firms you listed are essential for maintaining the economy and/or high standards of living we've come to know in the United States as compared to most of the rest of the world. They aren't ABSOLUTELY necessary like food, clothing, shelter, and healthcare....but they are necessary for our modern way of life. In some respects, you seem to be condemning the very technology and standard of living the allows you to comfortably get your point across....lol. I had a friend who was a staunch socialist and condemned corporations left and right....but every time I saw her she kept a tall cup of Starbucks coffee and Frappuccino in her hand, lol. She'd hang out in Starbucks banging away on her Apple laptop/tablet running down the very system she enjoyed....lol. Expand I have never eaten at starbucks.. oddly enough some generational elders in my bloodline have eaten at starbucks when I haven't. But, the firms aren't necessary Pioneer. The technology doesn't require the firms. For example, If I make a volumetric display system, energy efficient, easy to use,and I successfully start a firm... money is coming my way, if I adhere to the process and get lucky. Lets assume all positive. But , lets say thirty years from now the company is bankrupt by mismanagement, like all the companies I just listed. . In thirty years every one financially capable will use my volumetric display system in games/home entertainment/mobile devices... so the technology will be part of many, not all or most humans[remember most in humanity are not online, it is a myth that everyone is], peoples lives. BUT, the technology isn't my firm. When my firm files for bankruptcy, all of its technology should be sold or made open source. Others will buy it or use the tech in their own financial activities, absent having to pay as part of the bankruptcy. So all my firms assets will simply be bought by others. The laws can make sure it is only domestic buyers. And as for way of life? competitors buying my assets or competitors using open source will eliminate the absence of a market player. For another example, lets say I own a hospital chain. Has achieved a method to recover from cerebral damage or birth defects using acute neurotrophic electrodes systems aligned to human nervous systems through a large language model system. My hospital will get tons of clients and be successful. But, lets say I mismanage it? why can't all our technology be sold or made open source? the building or buildings we have can be sold on the market, and the bankruptcy can make sure the new owners use for hospitals. how has way of life been hurt? How am I condemning the technology or standard or living, by stating the firms that are in control of them at the moment who have failed needed to fail properly? I don't know if you read my list stating how each firm does not produce a needed good and can go bankrupt, because for each firm I also added, how all their assets can be resold /made open source to continue use of technology or maintain way of life. The technology or way of life has no connection to the firms. A proof I should had started with is, all of those firms had rivals who no longer exists and went bankrupt, in which many of them bought bankrupted rivals content? why can't they go bankrupt? Thank you for this. For the economic corner I am very happy for this discourse. Because in all earnest, one of the biggest financial viewpoints that I think splits many today , is how we view failed firms. No firm is to big to fail, and every firm , starting with the biggest needs to fail properly, because bankruptcy allows two important things to happen. 1)an industry realigns correctly with the absence of a bad player. 2) all the poor investors are properly penalized for their bad investment. When I look at the firms I mentioned being kept alive I argue, all the bad investors and actors in those firms weren't properly penalized which has led to the maintenance of a way of life, but not the standard which you suggest but the way of life of bad financial activity. Look at all these industries in the usa today, they are woefully managed, and you think the people who managed them woefully should be maintained. I don't concur to your position on treating failed firms with a save, I don't feel way of life is hindered by bankruptcy, but I bet many feel like you do, which explains a lot. Because everytime these firms get in trouble, in the last fifty years it is the same thing. And I see now why? In the last twenty years the entire private banking/financial industry in the usa failed . In this community we talk about distribution of wealth. That is when it should had happened. Instead they were saved. Now people like you and many others, most likely most others in the usa, say it had to happen. But in 2026, said financial system is still full of errors and woeful management and isn't helping the larger financial environment in the usa. So if not bankrupted and all assets placed to a closed market since some activity is private or delicate like pension funds for example which I think should happen, it will need another too big too fail which you must support which will require more printed money, but lead to an inevitable financial fallout later because the poor actors are still in the industry. Bankruptcy kicks out poor financial actors. Government bailouts/stock market conglomerating don't /subsidized industrial situations don't kick out poor financial actors. And financial actors who are trading the highest brackets of money in my view, need to be taken out more than any other in a smaller financial scale. I will place my list again, in case you didn't read it. Apple- apple has never produced a needed good, every single device or software they made could be sold off in bankruptcy, and made open source. NEtflix- never produced a needed good, streaming has always had multiple agents and their entire streaming service, including their communication hubs could be sold off in bankruptcy to the highest bigger. Google- never produced a needed good, its assets could had been sold off in bankruptcy or given to open source. Competitors would had bought server systems or software went to open source or non bought server systems went to colleges or universities in a second selling off. General Motors- never produced a needed good, this country has always had multiple and small auto manufacturers, if general motors assets were put up for auction in a bankruptcy, they small automakers or others would claim what they needed and could increase their volume. Warner Bros- never produced a needed good Chrysler- like General motors, see above. Facebook- like google, see above. OpenAI- like facebook, see above twitter- like openai all the airlines- never produced a needed good, most arilines don't even make planes so all their aircraft after bankruptcy can be sold and regional competitors or private individuals can buy the content or it can be resold on the international market. a number of theater chains- never produced a needed good, each theater chain is mostly real estate which can be sold and if not given to the state. the machines to show movies can be sold to auction, private individuals will buy a few, the rest can go to schools. mall chains- never produced a needed good, each mall is real estate, each location can be sold after bankruptcy. starbucks and many other fast food chains- never produced a needed good, mostly real estate, secondarily food machines, afer bankruptcy the real estate can be sold and the food machines can be sold, some people will get nice food machines in their homes. am*zon- never produced a needed good, the shipping aspect is real estate and warehouse machines all sellable to auction after bankruptcy, the financial services are bank accounts which should be liquidated after bankruptcy,the electronic devices + machines to make them+ software can all be sold after bankruptcy or made open source. exxon- never produced a needed good, after bankruptcy, all the oil fields can be sold [ at best each to an individual] the tankers can be sold, their are other oil producers and inviduals can enter. The refineries can be sold after bankruptcy. And if not given to colleges as training areas or broken up into parts for use in other industries. goldman sachs- never produced a needed good, all their bank accounts or financial transaction accounts should be liquidated and the financial software sold or made open source, the financial reports or private information held by a private legal entity for the individuals it pertains too. jp morgan- like goldman sachs, see above General electric- never produced a needed good, all their manufacturing plants for their various parts can be sold to auction after bankruptcy, anything not sold can go to colleges in an open grab. their real estate sold after bankruptcy. their computer software or server systems can be sold or made open source. universal studios- like waner bros, see above most bitcoins or datamined currencies- never produced a needed good, all the real estate can be sold after bankruptcy, all the server systems can be sold individually to unique buyers and then secondarily in components, the individual servers in the chain, and then thirdly in elements, the parts that make up each individual server unit. most ai systems- like bitcoin, see above most hospital chains- never produced a needed good, most city or state governments have government hospitals so after bankruptcy all the medical technology can be bought by the state to use in government run hospitals or in auction to private individuals or boutique hospitals, the real estate can be sold or demolished for spare land, paid for by the hospital. most real estate- never produced a needed good, after bankruptcy , all real estate that is not paid for can be taken by the government and resold or demolished paid for as a tax write off based on the cost of destruction and taken off the debt by the bankrupt realtor. 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Outside of China and North Korea, most socialist states aren't good at generating wealth and producing goods and services. They are good at REDISTRIBUTING them once they've taken them from somebody who HAS produced them. We need to learn a lesson how to NOT be like most socialist systems and make sure we can build our own products and provide our own services from the ground up instead fighting eachother over White left-overs. What is socialism is the first question? Pioneer I don't know how you define socialism but the following is mine. Socialism is a multifaceted concept which has forms for each aspect in society designed to create classlessness, or no tiers in the humanity utilizing it. Unlike fiscal capitalism which is a primarily financial idea and promotes by definition financial castes. Socialism involves, financial+ governmental+cultural pathways distinct from each other. Financially, socialism is an intricate bartering system of labor and goods absent currency, why, the accumulation of currency creates financial castes thus a class based system. While bartering only labor and goods and services means each individuals merit or the merit of the land are the only factors in fiscal trading, which can be aligned efficiently in calculated measure. Governmentally, socialism is a military state where each citizen with no exception is a member of the military and thus the chain of command is all that is needed. Elected officials or governors are not needed. Yes each military has a ranking system but it is a false assumption to think rankings have to serve the model in western europe. Culturally, socialism is an eradication of all old ranking systems based on prior heritages for a new heritage of one peoples, with no bounds. How many socialist countries existed in history to modernity ? I argue none. Russia in the soviet era/China/North Korea/Cuba/Ethiopia in the period immediately after haille selassie /many countries in eastern europe who were militaristically aligned to the soviet union were labeled socialist but none were socialist. All of them were fiscal capitalist first and foremost. The soviet union was never socialist. If it was it would had never had a currency or sold weapons or services for cash, let alone their treatment of cossacks and chechyens. Communism is a form of socialism, but it is mostly fiscal capitalistic. Communism is fiscal capitalism with the financial system having the government as the sole domestic company, the governmental system has no multivisive parties of governance, culturally allows the majority populace to dictate the culture. The usa called itself a democracy, where each state in the union had to have a democratic government, a government where the people rules, but the entire souths majority populace were enslaved to a minority? how is that a rule of the people when most people are not ruling themselves? so countries give themselves false labels. China has never been socialist. If it was it would never had elected officials or peoples like the ugyars or tibetans as "outsiders", let alone their financial activity which was fiscal capitalsit in mao's time. It is also communist. North Korea is a monarchy that uses communism to mask its monarchic truth. Cuba has always been an chiefdom from spain to now using fiscal capitalism. Cuba was a territory of spain. Spain was too weak to protect or manage cuba, so even before the usa took the territory, the spanish governor was a chief. The usa took over the territory and the leader of the army became the chief, ala batista. Then Fidel defeated Batista and became the chief. But cuba was always fiscal capitalistic. Ethiopia was communistic, and again, what that meant was fiscal capitalists who killed the emperor and various other former regals by bloodline. But they were never socialist. Now to what black americans [those with enslaved forebears to the american continent[[canada to argentina]] over an ocean]should be doing for a better tomorrow. Well, trying to implement a truly socialist system in the usa or any country in the american continent including cuba is a large challenge. I will not say impossible. But, harder than other options simply because every country in the american continent, canada to argentina, is fiscal capitalistic. Communism is as close to socialism as equality is to fiscal capitalism. @ProfD 7 hours ago, ProfD said: Many of us know Black history. The question remains what are we going to do to right the wrongs committed against our ancestors up to present. If Black people are unwilling to kill and destroy in order to reclaim wealth stolen from us, just like Haiti, we'll remain in this position into perpetuity as well. Is that the right question? No human can undo the past, no human. And nothing you do in the future rights the past. For example, all the money white jews have extracted for other white people or white jews nationalist agenda/scheme for israel led by their zionist sub group doesn't right the holocaust or what happened in spain or elsewhere in europe. Another example, every single human being who laments a loving one who has passed for not spending enough time can't do anything to right that? because it is the past, someone involved is dead so nothing can be changed. The haitian revolution is the most successful action by Black Americans [Black Americans defined as all black people living in modern day canada to argentina whose forebears were forced across an ocean to the american continent]. But the haitian revolution didn't right the past. The haitian revolution made the platform for a positive future, which happened for a while in haiti. The most beautiful time Black people had in the american continent. The fact that haiti is surrounded on all sides [north south east west ]by white/mestizo/mullato enslavers of black people made the long term hard. I argue the question is, what do we black americans want to leave to future generations of us? And the problem is, black americans have never been united on that. We all have an answer to that question. But, we rarely have a similar one, and that isn't even uneven because unlike all others in the american continent, we black americans alone were forced to immigrate to this continent[canada and argentina] and thus our forebears gave us the freedom to choose whatever we want looking forward. Black americans are not beholden to any place in the american continent, if we don't want, not black africans[ africa from morocco to egypt to south africa], not black asians [asia from india, south east asia, australia], not black europeans [from turkey to england] or non blacks, So, this means black americans tend to bicker on what we want to leave the future generations. Frederick Douglass + MLK jr + Michelle Obama or similar Black Americans want to leave to future Black Americans an pan racially positively integrated society where black individuals can thrive amongst all other humans. The Exodusters + Black PAnthers or similar black americans want to leave to future Black Americans regions/zones in majority non black countries where black americans own and thrive, as part of non white countries. The Haitian from Jean Jacque dessalines to Henri Christophe + the Black loyalist who fought to stop the usa from being born, the quilombos orwar bands of Brasil or the greater south america or similar black americans want to leave to future black americans nations, new places for black people to thrive, built from war while secure from war afterward. Notice in each , thriving is what all want. black success is what all want. But, the way is not the same. So, ProfD , what do you want to leave future generations of Black Americans? No answer is wrong. No answer is wrong. But any answer may not be what another black person wants. Whatever answer your give I am willing to help you think about it. 5 hours ago, ProfD said: It's definitely both...being able to build, produce and generate wealth in addition to being able to kill in order to protect and/or amass more wealth. We really don't have to kill or destroy other non-white folks in order to be free and amass wealth. What your talking about is doing two things that don't work together. White americans [whites who came freely, whether invited or not legally or not, to the american continent from anywhere on earth] are learning this lesson now. You can't be the bully + the friend. You have to pick one. If you are the bully, expect violence from others and don't try to cover yourself in false goodness. If you are the friend, expect to lose wealth in the market place and embrace what a peaceful world truly is. As for black folk... welll... again, what is freedom? what is wealth? Now I said earlier I am willing to help you in discourse. So my questions to you are the following When you speak of freedom or massing wealth are you talking about black people throughout all humanity or just the american continent, canada to argentina or just the usa? When you speak of freedom, hoow do you define freedom? is it voting? is it money? is it protection from non blacks? is it protection from blacks? Does the freedom you speak of include integration with non black positively? When you speak of amassing wealth? how do you define that explicitly? is it bank accountS? or is it qualities in the communities black people live in? does it involve financial security for the wealth? All black people want empowerment or betterment, but the key is the details, What do you want for the future Black Americans? 01/12/2026 osted just now @ProfD ok, 1)when you close your eyes for the last time you want to leave something for FBA/Afro Americans. That is a large group of people. Hopefully you can have a more focused group within FBA/AFro Americans in the future. 2) YYou want a financial return of undisclosed value or undisclosed form to Afro Americans for injustices done to us in the past. Not all afro americans desire said return or feel said return is warranted. Do you accept the challenge of wanting a desired thing for all Afro Americans when All Afro Americans don't want it? if you do, then how do you see getting said returns for those Afro Americans who venture for it? I do think it would be wise to have an exact idea of how much and in what form should the debt be paid. 3) You want a fully comprehensive communal plan,ala multilayered approach. The black sororities/nation of islam/garveyites have each had the closest example of that approach, but all are minority populaces within the Black DOS populace in the usa. Have you considered being apart of or starting a group within the Black DOS populace in the usa, that can achieve this goal and 2? I don't know you. But I think wherever you live in the usa, if you do live in the usa, a group of Black Descended of Enslaved peoples in where you live in the usa can achieve a debt return in a financial form, while have a holistic community that is potent or secure in all aspects of government/finance while a completely legal and integrated part of the usa. I think with the resources I assume you have, effort, energy, you can build the basis of the community your points desire in one state in the union. Nothing is easy of course, but it can be done. All black groups are trying to improve. All black groups don't feel they need to reclaim what was lost through any means. Some black groups are content to the past. I am not saying they are right or wrong, and I don't concur. But, all black groups are trying to improve by all means they can muster. w @Pioneer1 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: I AM curious as to how YOU define "smart" and "dumb" if you see them differently than I do. It is simple, smart or dumb can't be applied to groups of people. You accept the idea that a group can be labeled smart or dumb. I do not. Individually , humans can be ignorant, lacking knowledge, lacking erudition, the ability to derive knowledge, lacking wisdom, intrinsic perceptions of life that can only be gained through experience or an individuals natural ability. Groups simply succeed or fail in objectives. 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: You haven't eaten there, but have you DRANK from there? no i haven't. to be blunt, many people haven't. NYC is full of starbucks, but you will clearly be surprised how many don't partake of all these chain stores. I think you have an assumption from whereever you live, that isn't true everywhere else. The one thing you may not see is starbucks has never been cheap. I have never seen the local delis absent people wanting coffee. And my family have gotten quite a few cups of coffee or tea from local delis traveling about. I actually because of a family member went to a place called Mochi's, and that was following them:) 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: We're starting to get into technical matters when it comes to whether they're "necessary" or "required". What IS necessary besides food, clothing, shelter, and healthcare???? Those firms are an essential part of what it takes to maintain the high standards of living the most Americans have come to enjoy and expect. And there is more to come. If you remove them, maybe people wouldn't die in mass numbers however removing them or letting them collapse would drastically reduce the quality of life for most Americans and take away the incentive to work and live in this society for many. They are what gives America her "edge" on the rest of the world. Expand The usa military is what gives the usa the edge and the usa military is ahead of all other militaries when it comes to weapons and weapons systems or security systems. As for essential, again, the firms aren't essential, their technology is, but the technology isn't attached to them. and the market can easily find new buyers. This is the economic corner:) The question is this, why are you sure/certain that if the firms I said go bankrupt when warranted and have all their assets placed into market or made open source as need be would lead to the inability of the services from their assets or technology to maintain an interaction with the populace of the usa absent a large delay? Are you suggesting the federal government and state governments would take too long for bankruptcy? or botch bankruptcies in some way? 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: Well first of all THAT type of technology that actually heals the human brain and corrects birth defects are so valuable and essential that the government SHOULD have that information or technology anyway regardless as to how any private institution want to use it. Once it has been announced that you have technology that important and precious....it should be immediately shared with the government so that it is protected. Now...... As far as the institution who came up with it- If YOU mismanage it...then YOU get disciplined up to losing your job. The hospital corrects itself, and moves on helping and healing people. That's how THAT should work. Expand First the whole point of patents is financial, to give the owner of a patent a fiscal claim on the production or use of an item they made.but patent doesn't mean the use of the technology is open to the government with bankruptcy. You don't lose your patent going bankrupts and you can sue the government for using it absent your permission. Corporations have done this. Second, in my example I didn't say I worked at a hospital, I said i owned the hospital. Private hospitals exist all over NYC. Are you suggesting private hospitals shouldn't exist? And in my example i mismanaged the funds of hospitals i own and thus went bankrupt. This happened in NYC multiple times. It isn't unheard of. 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: Because hospitals and airlines affect and save far too many lives to simply be ALLOWED to fail just to prove a point. Maybe the government takes them over and controls them for a while until they get their act together, but don't let them collapse. I find it interesting that many black people like yourself talk about black people being financially efficient in their activity as owners or consumers while talking about white people, who own all the companies i mentioned, failing to be financial efficient as owners or consumers and yet having no penalty. So you suggesting a financial double standard of bad financial actors based on phenotype? you have to say yes. In the last five years, in NYC, I can recall at least five hospital completely closed. No government takeover, completely closed. The city didn't fall under. PEople complained but it was completely warranted. The fiscal capitalsim in the future of the usa , if it is to be even to all peoples can't allow whites or males to never collapse no matter what while blacks or females or everyone not white male has to deal with consequence. So, finally, you accept bankuptcy followed by government take over, to maintain services. ok. I like that i have found a particular financial philosophical friction between us. You are a fiscal capitalist, but you dislike the idea of services being lessened through bankruptcy. I don't support that, but it is great in the economic corner. Maybe I need to make a list of financial notes from you and profd. financial particulars. I think the market can easily by and continue needed services if warranted. and if not warranted then the service is gone. 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: What you're describing is pretty much incompatible with human nature. There is no society human or animal that functions without classes and tiers. yes complete classlessness is impossible among humans who give themselves names. BUT, the governments that call themselves socialists have never actually tried. Do you comprehend the point. the point isn't about reaching socialism, it is about the claim of socialist countries failure. The countries you mentioned aren't socialist. they are fiscal capitalist. Again, communism is no way near socialism. communalism is really fiscal capitalsim with the faintest touch of socialism. The usa government has always been a fiscal operator. The communist simply made all firms owned by the government. The difference between communism and fiscal capitalism is the percentage of allowance of private enterprise+ the environment for parties of governance. Fiscal capitalism wants complete fiscal capitalism with unfettered private enterprise while the role of government is to act as a legal or security lever against malfeasance. Communism wants complete fiscal capitalsim with very restricted private enterprise so the government doesn't have to bother cleaning up the mess of private enterprise ala bankruptcy, and ideally though only china has come close, generate the free market enterprise environment through government owned business. but soviet russia + china from mao on, always had private ownership in places. As for parties of governance again, china has always had at least two parties from its founding and has I think four or five now. And russia also always had minority parties. But again, this has nothing to do with socialism. This is fiscal capitalism. Fiscal capitalism wants government to have independent actors or parties free to be born and die, which deletes the king from coming through government. Communism wants government to have one major party which through its infighting, which happens often in china's only major party , resists kings. The difference communism is fiscal capitalism with two changes that are not socialistic in nature. If anything the problem with russia was they didn't comprehend how to actually have the russian government as the sole fiscal operator and when I think on the history of General electric the answer russia needed was in them. but they missed it. 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: This society is far too complex to operate without currency. I think a solution exists that I have never seen tried, so it can't be proven. But, I don't think so. 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: What about the military itself? How would it operate without rank; or would it even EXIST in your ideal Socialist society? Why do you always make my positions claims on my identity? I am not a socialist, I am not a monarchist, I am not a fiscal capitalist, but I comprehend them all. It isn't my ideal. If you had said example, which is the word I used, then I wouldn't have problems, but you said my ideal. why that? To answer your questions I merely quote myself. wish you had read it the first time 19 hours ago, richardmurray said: What is socialism is the first question? Pioneer I don't know how you define socialism but the following is mine. Socialism is a multifaceted concept which has forms for each aspect in society designed to create classlessness, or no tiers in the humanity utilizing it. Unlike fiscal capitalism which is a primarily financial idea and promotes by definition financial castes. Socialism involves, financial+ governmental+cultural pathways distinct from each other. Financially, socialism is an intricate bartering system of labor and goods absent currency, why, the accumulation of currency creates financial castes thus a class based system. While bartering only labor and goods and services means each individuals merit or the merit of the land are the only factors in fiscal trading, which can be aligned efficiently in calculated measure. Governmentally, socialism is a military state where each citizen with no exception is a member of the military and thus the chain of command is all that is needed. Elected officials or governors are not needed. Yes each military has a ranking system but it is a false assumption to think rankings have to serve the model in western europe. Culturally, socialism is an eradication of all old ranking systems based on prior heritages for a new heritage of one peoples, with no bounds. How many socialist countries existed in history to modernity ? I argue none. Russia in the soviet era/China/North Korea/Cuba/Ethiopia in the period immediately after haille selassie /many countries in eastern europe who were militaristically aligned to the soviet union were labeled socialist but none were socialist. All of them were fiscal capitalist first and foremost. The soviet union was never socialist. If it was it would had never had a currency or sold weapons or services for cash, let alone their treatment of cossacks and chechyens. Communism is a form of socialism, but it is mostly fiscal capitalistic. Communism is fiscal capitalism with the financial system having the government as the sole domestic company, the governmental system has no multivisive parties of governance, culturally allows the majority populace to dictate the culture. The usa called itself a democracy, where each state in the union had to have a democratic government, a government where the people rules, but the entire souths majority populace were enslaved to a minority? how is that a rule of the people when most people are not ruling themselves? so countries give themselves false labels. China has never been socialist. If it was it would never had elected officials or peoples like the ugyars or tibetans as "outsiders", let alone their financial activity which was fiscal capitalsit in mao's time. It is also communist. North Korea is a monarchy that uses communism to mask its monarchic truth. Cuba has always been an chiefdom from spain to now using fiscal capitalism. Cuba was a territory of spain. Spain was too weak to protect or manage cuba, so even before the usa took the territory, the spanish governor was a chief. The usa took over the territory and the leader of the army became the chief, ala batista. Then Fidel defeated Batista and became the chief. But cuba was always fiscal capitalistic. Ethiopia was communistic, and again, what that meant was fiscal capitalists who killed the emperor and various other former regals by bloodline. But they were never socialist. Now to what black americans [those with enslaved forebears to the american continent[[canada to argentina]] over an ocean]should be doing for a better tomorrow. Well, trying to implement a truly socialist system in the usa or any country in the american continent including cuba is a large challenge. I will not say impossible. But, harder than other options simply because every country in the american continent, canada to argentina, is fiscal capitalistic. 1/14/2026 @ProfD On 1/12/2026 at 9:06 PM, ProfD said: Someone has to be partaking of Starbucks there in order for the doors to remain open. not as much as you think. Think of recent economic history. Netflix spent near ten years absent making a profit every year, but how did it survive? stock market activity/debt allowance from whomever. So, while people are in starbucks, how profitable was it really? how many people really? Look at the streaming model... how many streamers push commercials now? remember when it started, you pay for a service, no commercials. But again, that is a bad business model. The cost of electricity, the cost of actors, the cost of paying for content, the cost for your administration can not be mushroomed into the yearly subscription fees. Old television didn't have commercials because it was old fashioned, that is the only viable financial option. All the firms with streaming platforms have accumulated how much debt? I thank you and @Pioneer1 for your thoughts in this post, it exposes some clear financial flaws in modernity, led by the usa. Look at sports teams, who raise ticket prices. The allowance of Debt, which the usa government itself accumulates an ever increasing rate since the 1970s, allows for many firms or industries that have negative financial practices to get away with it. And again, the usa military is why the debt generation of the usa government plus the privately owned firms registered in the usa is never called in. It isn't any fiscal capitalistic model or need or strategy. The mob boss can't be called in for owning anything. And again this connects to me and Pioneers dialog in this commentary about Bankruptcy. I think it is a highly needed tool to stop the cycle of debt allowance from financial institutions + revenue from speculative stock market activity which alot of times isn't based on the ledger of firms. 01/18/2026 Citation https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12270-has-universal-income-gotten-closer-to-being-needed/#findComment-79452 @Pioneer1 9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: What about MENSA, the globally recognized group for people with extremely high IQ's? What about certain special education classes for those with intellectual disabilities? globally recognized? not everyone views Mensa like that? humanity is quite large you know. disability does not make one dumb and to education... i argue education is rarely designed functionally, anywhere in humanity. 9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I don't believe there are any dumb nations. I believe some nations are SMARTER than others... so you believe in smarter and neutral, not smarter or dumber... ok 9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Why is this? Why is the U.S.A. military so powerful and effective? simple things but powerful things two big oceans border the country, neighbors who have always been impotent or at least not able to strike hard, and only two by land. a financial history, including the white european colonial, where inequal or uneven financial system allowed for the production of weapons at larger quantities than most, not quality , but quantity. For me, nazi germany or soviet russia built better weapons by a mile than the usa, but no one produces more than our friendly neighborhood white slaver. a media machine, originally designed to unite whites who had competing heritages historically, that many outcast of groups/communities/collectivies celebrate as a way to be their individual self in spite of a said group. this yielded and yields traitors throughout all humanity including white populaces, and sometimes only for information, not murder or similar. but useful. No weapon the usa has is exclusive to the usa, but usa has more of them. But none of the usa military rivals had enslavement like the usa. russia was an empire and cossacks and checyens were abused but they weren't enslaved like blacks to whites in the usa. The soviet union has a pro european bias in its populace, a heritage from the czars, but russia has been battling all of its life it has never been far from a rival. China has never been far from a rival, and its neighbors have at times been far more powerful. so the usa has fortune on its side, most empires do. IT isn't smarts or intelligence. 9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: However public hospitals in my opinion should predominate. hmmm, the heritage of the usa is private care, ala fiscal capitalism, if you can pay for a doctor you have one. public hospitals heritage in the usa is from pro bono work, not for profit. 9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Sometimes the GOOD or SERVICE being offered is so necessary that who the company is ran or the fiscal responsibility of it's owners is of much less importance and making sure the company stays afloat is. but I still don't see why bankruptcy denies the good or service being present. bankruptcy forces the ownership or provider of good or service to change, which is appropriate since the prior owner went bankrupt. ...What your saying is some goods or services can't risk even 24 hours of not existing. 9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Probably because there were so many more hospitals to cover their loss. no, nyc has been underserved by hospitals for its entire history 9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: So how do you know Socialism works for a nation if you can't point to a nation that is successfully practicing it? all ideas work, from monarchy to anarchy, it is only a matter of implementation. And yes, those in the future have the right as imaginative beings to see a way of implementing not seen before. 9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: You're this theory a "solution" but we haven't determined that having currency is actually a PROBLEM! universal income will not delete currency, if I said I feel it will , I apologize, that wasn't my intent. 1/19/2026 Citation https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12270-has-universal-income-gotten-closer-to-being-needed/#findComment-79473 Posted just now @Pioneer1 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: That factor could have been just as easily worked AGAINST our favor as IN our favor. Some would have seen this as geographical isolation from the rest of the world...especially the Eastern Hemisphere. your, not our, me and mine are not part of the our you speak of. Militaristically, the reality is present, a weak country, absent a decent military, is too far away to be bullied properly, while it has vast resources at its doorstep... no. whomever those some maybe, are completely wrong It is the same reason far east asia has the least militaristic presence of western europe, distance. distance is a powerful thing, and worth alot when you can't beat a bully and not us, you or yours 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: If they were/are impotent...why? They are nations made up of human beings just like the United States. So why would we be so much powerful unless it's due to intelligence? canada nor mexico are not hard to explain. but the quick version is canada 's natural environment is much harsher than the usa for the technology of either countries nascence. Mexico like all of latin america [ haiti/brazil/columbia/or similar lke french canada which would become canada and the midwest states of the usa] was not viewed by the latin european empires [ france/spain/portugal] as anything but natural resource extractors. But the english viewed anglo america[ usa/jamaica] as places for profit + immigration, to dump their religious fanatics/criminals/illegal actors/general fiscal poor like fidel did with csimilar cubans and the florida exodus. So the usa grew a populace that was legally tied to the european center, unlike latin america where the white male warrior populace made the mulatto/mestizo / enslaved the black to operate the system of extraction. That is why the most profitable regions at the time were haiti/the spanish dominion from modern day canada to argentina. LAtin America was really a set of prison camps, just enough guards to maintain the money. Ship the money to europe. The usa wasn't the wealthiest zone in the americas financially. this is part of why england tried so many tax schemes and et cetera. So canada or mexico had a different origin in key ways financially but also militaristically. and not we, you or yours, not me or mine. 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The Black population of the United States is one of the key features that make us a global power because it's the source of our superior entertainment that's marketed and envied across the globe. not us, you and yours. I am nt and have never been statian and said it way too many times to require repeating. Well, I know that at the end of the commonly called world war two, the usa couldn't continue the war for overreach and the usa + ussr wanted to continue warring on the battlefield... but they simply couldn't and neither was willing to give up their militaristic advantage to the likes of western europe/japan who were completely annihilated , or the dominions of the former western european empires that had been intentionally run dysfunctionally. 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Perhaps the superior intelligence OF the United States above other nations (a fact that you insist on denying) is part of that fortune! Because in the usa's case it is just luck, fate. the usa didn't even know how to wage a sea war. if the french didn't get involved in the war against the british empire, I am 100% certain the usa doesn't exist today as it is. history is 100% changed. France won that war. But that wasn't because the usa was smart, it was because france and england were in a centuries old blood feud. I will make the historical argument said blod feud lasted from the time of the viking's coming down at the end of the roman empire centered at old rome, till the end of commonly called world war 2. that is thousands of years. But they are neighbors, always similar in power, so any war between them will always be a war of equals which means real bloody and that kind of blood transcends marketplaces. They had 100 years war with each other, that isn't a joke. Vendetta's are real in humanity. Quite a number of them exists throughout humanity. The serbs and croats were fighting before the soviet union, during the soviet and after the soviet union. I bet if japan had an viable military and invaded the korean peninsula, all koreans would unite real quick, the only thing all koreans still know is to hate the japanese. hell, Black people enslaved in north america have a blood feud with whites, it predated the usa, exists still now during the usa and knowing vendettas will exist after the usa, cause, blood feuds aren't about money. yes, fiscally greedy people involve themselves, but the energy fueling it, like the hatfields and mccoys in the appalachias is old wounds that money nor time can heal. the healing can only come from the hearts. but both hearts have to be willing. The zionists and palestineans are a blood feud. the ira was only 300 people but the blood feud between the irish and english, which still has many adherents on either side,, was so strong, those 300 used more explosives than the usa in vietnam. So I said all of this to make it clear, don't underestimate the power of a blood feud and how it can influence history. saved the usa. France and england were so used to being at war, it became natural. 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Corporate is what I like to call "semi-private". Because it's often controlled and regulated by the government but not completely owned by it nor does one person or family own it but usually a huge market of shareholders.....it doesn't fall squarely into the government, public OR private slots. Well, you have presented your fiscal position:) thank you. this is the economic corner.I comprehend your stance though it warrants discourse. 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Is this the fault of the private hospitals, or the fault of the government for not building hospitals of it's own to compete with the private ones insuring consistent progress and low costs, as well as cater to the needs of the people? either or both depending on who you ask. Remember the usa has always had multiple financial positions. Some black or non black have always believed in private ownership leading the way, thus private hospitals, the logic being people will figure out a way to afford a hospital or move. Some black or non black have always believed municipal activity, the government enganging in services to the public, the logic being it represents positive graces among humans, regardless of the cost or tax burden. Some black or non black try to find a bridge between both Some black or non black are anarchist who don't want either. So whose fault? I don't know. It all depends on point of view. But why should ne point of view be correct or wrong? one point of view has always been implemented from whomever is in power. 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: However how do you feel ABOUT currency and the use of currency in society? how do I feel about currency? I try to stay away from that kind of discourse in the economic corner, feelings lead to rubbish in financial discourse for me. But as I try to answer every question, I will provide an answer, which I have said before. All ideas are effective based on implementation. To reword, currency is merely an idea, if implemented a certain way to a certain place or time it will succeed . If implemented other ways it will fail. but that is with all ideas. socialism/monarchy/vendetta... implementation is always the key, not right or wrong. And luck can be the key to implementation, not any human planning. 1/22/2026 Citation https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12270-has-universal-income-gotten-closer-to-being-needed/#findComment-79537 osted just now @Pioneer1 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Oh... You're not part of the United States? Well you eat, shit, and pay taxes here. So you're being cheated...lol. no, I am a black person whose forebears were enslaved by whites to these lands [ canada to argentina]. I am in the usa because white people wanted me here. It is that simple. Now if I had the means to leave I would. My forebears were enslaved, they didn't have means to leave. My forebears who were allowed a level of freedom while under constant white abuse didn't have means to leave. Did some want to leave? yes. Did some of my forebears become part of the usa? yes. But it is a choice every Black DOSer has to make, and when adult they will make it. 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: It is the same reason far east asia has the least militaristic presence of western europe, distance. distance is a powerful thing, and worth alot when you can't beat a bully That and they weren't as technologically advanced when it came to weaponry. I don't comprehend your reply, are you saying far east asia was more technologically advanced than the rest of humanity white europeans dominated? 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Well SOMEBODY'S military is protecting you and keeping the Asians and Arabs from flying over here and forcing you into a submissive workers....lol. They're protecting you from being a DOS-er to becoming a straight up S-er....lol. No, if anything the usa military endangers all on earth by their actions. 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: What nation do YOU belong to? And more importantly, how does THEIR military compare to ME AND MINEZ...lol??? I am stateless. Every single Black DOSer is stateless until they choose not to be. What do you think enslaved people are? My forebears were enslaved, that didn't make them citizens of the english empire nor citizens of the usa later. An enslaved person isn't a citizen of anywhere, that is the point, they are enslaved. Are you suggesting in 1776 the 90% or more of black people in the usa that are completely enslaved are citizens of the usa? If you are, that is fine, I am not trying to change your damn mind. And I know many black people concur to your thinking. BUT I oppose that. That is not my thinking. And I know many black people concur to my thinking. Stateless people don't have a government to connect to. Now black people who have chosen to connect to the usa have, I have no problem with that. That is the free choice all Black DOSers have. 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: What country are you posting from when you're not in New York? stateless people exist all over the world. the romani are stateless. BEing stateless doesn't mean you don't abide by whatever legal code you live under. You don't comprehend statelessness properly. 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Over 100 years of just "luck"??? Ok. yes, yes luck, nature or fate are funny aren't they . Don't always try to make the past a machiavellan thing. I think too many blacks create in our own minds a controlled world, just begging for the right genious to make it happen. No, luck is a powerful force and yes, some people, some groups can be lucky a long time and in many ways. It happens. 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Another sign of high intelligence and being smart enough to diversify. that is an equivalence you believe, I don't see it that way. Multiversification isn't a sign of intelligence. Implemention is the key to any ideas qualities, not the idea itself. Monoversification can be implemented better than multiversification. 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Because some points of view are logical and reasonable, and thus valid. If it's not logical or reasonable, how could it be considered correct unless SHOWN to be so through example and proof? So by your own words, faith is invalid. The USA has one of the most religious populaces in humanity, arguably only second to india. Religious populaces base their actions on faith, by your own words, illogical or unreasonable. Majority in the usa are overwhelmingly religious. 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: But some ideas....as great as they may sound....CAN'T be implemented. Which makes them wrong. This is why I've repeatedly asked for an example of this economy or that society which implemented that particular "idea". If a particular idea is constantly being promoted but we don't have any example of it being implemented in real life, there's a good chance that this is the case because it CAN'T be implemented. Those who think or THOUGHT it was a good idea have repeatedly TRIED to implemented it and failed. Expand But how can you prove a way of organizing humans can't be implemented? How is it possible for the past to have every single method of implementation tried? Your suggesting if an example of human organizations can't be displayed in a history book, then that method of organization can't exist in the future. That is dysfunctional, unless you know the future? Your basis for something not being possible is because of the past from 2026:) You think a hell of lot more of modernity than I do. Well again, I argue, that they haven't tried. if you read my words, I clearly say they didn't try. Lenin and MArx theorized, made an idea, but the Russian socialist, which started as a fiscal capitalist group in russia whose sole path to implementing their idea was violence never tried to implement socialism. Russia itself was a fiscal capitalistic monarchy, so it had no space for socialism to be tried within it. And after the reds and whites fought, the russian socialist became communist, and again, communism is merely fiscal capitalism. I reword, the russian socialist, never tried marx and lenin's ideas but implemented fiscal capitalism with two principles derived from socialism. One being the one party idea, which is based on socialism's no tiers idea but isn't a direct relation. Having one party of governance in my view doesn't mean no class/race/rank exist. The second is the government as the lone business, which is based on socialism's idea of equal wealth share. But, only having one firm doesn't mean equal wealth share because the people in the upper administration have various types of wealth, maybe not in strict dollars but in influence. So fo rme, the russians never tried. You suggest they tried because of a name, of a label. The USA people call democratic/rule of the people , which is also a lie. How can the people rule when you have reservations or enslavement? Don't tell me native americans want to be on reservations and abiding by the ways of non native americans. Don't tell me Black people wanted to be enslaved? please don't do these things. please. The USA is a fiscal capitalistic white manoralistic country. The USA went from land based manoralism to stock/shares based manoralism. And replaced the white regals of Europe with the white populace, while the white peasants/people of the land in europe were replaced with all the non white european peoples of the usa. The big deletion was religion, where religion was considered a standalone body in europe, the usa cut religion out of the system of manoralism, allowing all religions or faiths or none at all to exist. Countries do shift ideas over time but the intentional while poor labeling, of ideas in countries is why you get miscomprehensions today. The USA is not a democracy , Democracy has never been tried in the USA. The usa is a manoralistic country, that likes to lie about itself. As england its forebear did and does. As fellow anglophone creation india does. India says its the biggest democracy in the world. Here is thing, this is a country where the peoples are battling each other violently ever day. The rule of the people. How can a people be considered one people when they battle violently ever day? India is a loose confederation of fiscal capitalistic tribes. India is a lot like the Holy roman empire . Holy roman empire wasn't really one country. It was a loose military alliance of various small states for their collective protection surrounded by large militaristic empires: france west/austria-hungary south/russia east. The scandanavian kingdoms were above them, who shifted power between themselves. India has pakistan to the west, a religious state, china to the east whom india still contends kashmir plus tibet with, russia or some stans of former russian empire north who , and the sea south where the usa has vessels. I apologize, india also has bangeldesh to the east, another muslim state, pseudo caliphate. So I don't chagrin, Russia or china from similar lying. India's lying, USA is lying. Why can't russia or china lie? @ProfD 3 hours ago, ProfD said: I'll let @richardmurray answer the question for himself. But, I've known people who reside in the United States but did not claim citizenship here. They considered themselves some type of aboriginals. They didn't want to pay taxes. Couldn't get IDs. Needless to type, they did not work real jobs either. That whole set-up is great for the person who 1) lives off someone else or 2) does not have real world responsibilities or 3) financially independent. I'm just black. I have said it before in this forum many times. I'm just black. I have no allegiance to any country. I am not a native american. I have traveled to various countries in africa, I am not a member of any of them. It is said I have to use zionists , cause the romani or my enslaved forebears are better, but zionists are easier for most to comprehend. Zionist came from all over the world, but what are zionists. Zionists are jews who felt the countries they are or were in are not theirs. It didn't mean zionists didn't pay taxes or work. I don't know why, connection to a country is assumed when one follows the law. Zionists worked to have their own country which is modern israel today. But not all stateless people have to take others land or kill others. My forebears were enslaved, I am not interested in slavery or killing others really. Do I like everybody ? no. Do I trust everybody? no. But I am not interestedin taking someone elses land cause I am stateless. This doesn't mean I don't work or follow the law of the usa? I always have. I have never broken the law in the usa. Not for love or allegiance or connection , simply cause that is what one does anywhere on earth, well most folk:) @Pioneer1 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Most Jamaicans and Haitians are DOSers. as well. Exactly, all black people whose forebears were enslaved from africa to somewhere outside africa are DOSers, which definitely includes modern day Canada to Argentina. And to that thinking. When you look at the rastafarians who left jamaica and live in various parts of africa today, like zionists, who are jews who felt the only country they have was a jewish one that didn't exist until they took over the palestinean protectorate. That is the point. Not all jews are zionists. Not all black people in jamaica are rastafarians. why is a black DOSer somone mandatorily of the usa? You ask for examples of things. Zionist + rastafarians are examples of sections of two groups: jews in all humanity or black people in humanity/not all rastafarians come from jamaica, who view their true home as not where they live. why did I need to explain this to you? that is my question. Or do you just like this kind of debate. 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Can't treat America like you treat Starbucks. Walking up in the joint and enjoying the privileges but refusing to buy anything on principle. I argue your reading of extremely modern history is incorrect. The problem isn't immigrants. I argue, from the immigration act of 1965 to 2026 90% or more of immigrants to the usa, all phenotypes, all religions, all genders, all age groups[even the kids though they have the most resistance ], all languages, all geographic descendency, have been two things. 1) totally allegiant to the usa, as their home, once they arrived, betraying the homes they came from in various ways 2) adhering to the hierarchy of white power that existed before they came that exist today. As I said before about the immigration act, the problem is, white people in the usa, specifically, the whites before the immigration act of 1965 and their descendents today, never considered the immigration act would yield the horde of fiscally poor people into the usa, it has. I asked this in the 22nd edition of the economic corner Full speech from Lyndon b johnson https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=2785&type=status ICE is not about immigrants but whites in the usa who have a history of burning black towns and villages with its people in it, taking the scalps and hunting down for sport native americans. Whites are simply trying to bully immigrants, it is immgrants turn to join the Native American + Black DOSers as survivors of white violence. The problem today, is the USA is 250 years old. From 1492 to 1980 are the past, that time of enslavement and then jim crow is passed. Not all whites in the usa want to bully the non white into a form of slavery. Not all the non whites in the usa, are so impotent they can only watch their people be assaulted or hounded. Time has moved on from the kind of usa where white power can completely eradicate the non white. Abuse? yes. Take advantage of? yes. Kill? yes. Harm? yes. But not completely kill. Not completely harm. ICE will not get the immigrant peoples to flee the USA, or stop immigrants from coming. Yes, some people will be frightened away. But not enough for what whites... some whites... most whites want. it is interesting that you blame this on immigrants. Did not Lyndon B Johnson, a white man from texas with a nearly all white congress, save one yella black man, adam clayton powell jr, and a handful of other black elected officials make the immigration act of 1965 into law? Did not states who never had anything but white governors, invite immigrants, including the likes of texas? By your words Pioneer, someone will think immigrants tricked somebody. The USA didn't demand a patriot test? the usa didn't demand an english test? the usa didn't put great limits? I found this website from the white pew research center. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/22/how-the-origins-of-americas-immigrants-have-changed-since-1850/ 1960 1970 1980 1990 2000 2010 2020 So, the people you say , Pioneer, who need to pick a side or be american are really, Mexicans, whom militaristically have a claim to half of the usa, behind the native american of course. Now regionally, I did learn something so thank you. The Dominicans, from Dominican Republic , man They really focused, between cubans flooding in florida and dominicans flying into new york wow! ok. Although this also proves somethingI have said a long time, that most whites are german americans. wow! this is the proof. well... 1/23/2026 Citation https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12270-has-universal-income-gotten-closer-to-being-needed/#findComment-79552 osted 9 minutes ago @ProfD 4 hours ago, ProfD said: I claim this raggedy azz country warts and all as my home (state) because it is my birthplace and many generations of my ancestors too. exactly,I don't have any problems with that. Some of our ancestors claimed the usa when it was being born with arguably no reason but hope. So I don't have a problem with your reasoning at all, but the issue is, too many black people who claim the usa, whether DOSer or not, seem shocked or require proof of something when a black DOSer doesn't. As if it never happened before. When it actually has been going on as long as the usa has been in existence. It goes back to our old topic of black people accepting our tribes in this country, which we never seem able to truly do. I know in a land filled with some indigenous people and a horde of willing immigrants or their descendants DOSers are unique in our story here. But... @Troy i must admit, the maps surprised me a little. The narrative has been the immigrant takeover, but that isn't the truth based on these maps. the truth is, mexicans have become the base of a multiphenotypical immigrant populace that combined has a majority or near majority in the usa today. And based on those same maps, chinese or indians are really the incoming threat to the white european base. But india + china have so many people. I remember when australia was upset, when so many chinese went to australia, but I get it. China uses its militaristic + financial clout to give chinese somewhere to go, cause china can't handle the worlds populace of chinese. Mexican+Indian+Chinese since 2010. 2030 it will be twenty years, a generation. 4 hours ago, Troy said: I have not read the conversation, but I'd imagine the maps Richard posed would be having white nationalists wetting their pants. As I travel the country it does seem like there are Mexican everywhere LOL! 1/26/2026 Citation https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12270-has-universal-income-gotten-closer-to-being-needed/#findComment-79745 osted just now @Pioneer1 On 1/24/2026 at 3:48 PM, Pioneer1 said: Including New York. When I was in New York and Philadelphia several years ago I was surprised to see so many Mexicans and other Central Americans in those places that I thought were Puerto Rican and Dominican strongholds. I remember coming to West Michigan 30 years ago back in the 90s and although it didn't have a HUGE Latino population, most of the Latinos here were Puerto Rican. When I moved BACK here the Mexican and Guatemalan population over took it and is now the majority among Latinos. This is one of the reasons you don't find too many AfroAmericans getting out there and protesting ICE. We instinctively know that it's not good for them to just "take over" the entire country by the millions like that....especially when they have such a strong and isolated culture. We instinctively know that something needs to be done and should have been doing years ago. Expand Stronghold:) White people have the only stronghold in New York City, now to the latino populaces.well... based on the map, dominicans are the base of the latino populace in new york city/new york state. but, your assessment to immigrants or Black DOSers is false , at least in NYC. First, Black DOSers in NYC are merely tired. You suggest Black DOSers are frightened for the identity of the usa being taken over by a horde. I oppose that. At least in NYC it is simpler. Black DOSers have spent the entire jim crow era, 1865 to 1980 supporting what the USA can become. When white people burned black women alive, hung black children, made black people sick. Most Black DOSers in the Jim Crow era ate the crow, followed the white law, acted civil and tried to have happy lives. Led by Black women in the DOSers , black people spent over one hundred years setting the table up for all peoples to be part of the usa. But black dosers are tired now. One populace can't support the idea of the usa becoming a country for the human individual forever. And Black DOSers suffered. All actions have prosequence plus consequence. Meaning all actions produce negativity plus positivity . The majority of Black DOSers supporting the idea of what the USA can be, prosequence/positive after effects was a country of civility. White people in the entire jim crow era were the most uncivil, most criminal people on earth, but Black people, Black DOSers in majority, took all the abuse, from murder to spitting to bad contracts, and fought to be happy to live in peace, aside the abusers, that led to a country where people all throughout humanity were amazed at, and made the myth that if you can come to the usa and eat the crow, you can be happy. The consequence/negative after effects was the Black DOS populace never emphasized itself. Black DOSers in majority, not all, chose, for the sake of peaceful integration to all humanity, to place our own unique heritage in the usa second to the potential of a usa culture to be first. So we didn't emphasize our languages, our spirituality, our towns and cities. The minorities in our populace that wanted to leave or wanted to fight, the majority in our populace chided or stymied or contained or sidelined. Not out of hate or competition but because what the majority wanted was to get through Jim Crow , outlast white abuse, to find a USA changed. Leaving the usa or feuding with whites would destroy the potential usa to be that the majority of black DOSErs in the jim crow era , 1865 to 1980, fought for. So...here we are. Black DOSers held up the idea of what the USA can be, but are tired now. A well earned rest.It is time for others to continue that battle. IT is time for the immigrant populace to fight for the potential of what the usa will be. Second, From 1980 to 2026, two generations, white people have slowly moved away from DOSers as a main threat and now have moved to the modern immigrant, a multiphenotypical/multilingual/multireligious/multicultural populace of people with one thing in common, they came to the USA for their financial betterment and like the idea of being in a country where they can be about themselves. How many dominicans go to the dominican republic? if you look at the numbers, each generation of immigrants has less and less connection to the land their forebears came from willingly. Many people with dominican or puerto rican or mexican lineage in NYC don't speak spanish, have never left the USA. This is their home in their own mind. The chinese populace in NYC is older than the USA. The chinese populace in NYC was from New Amsterdam. The chinese populace in NYC isn't foreign and temporally has greater claim to the USA than the populations of the midwest and west coast. Do some Black DOSers have an instinct against modern immigrants? yes. Some Black DOSers opposed Marcu Garvey who came from the caribbean. Some Black DOSers disliked modern black immigrant children from the continent for being muslim or not having European or judeo-christian names. But I think most Black DOSers are simply tired of being the backbone , the engine for the USA to stay on the path to becoming a government for the human individual. It is time for the immigrant populace to take a leading role. Will violence occur? yes. the usa was born from violence between the immigrant and the current, starting with the First peoples, commonly called Native Americans and the first immigrants, completely unwanted or unwelcomed who came anyway, white europeans. But, the existence of violence doesn't mean the future will be violent forever. Peace will grow when tiny, as war always grows when tiny. In Amendment One of my favorite white literatures is Ivanhoe from walter scott. the character of wambaugh is brilliant to me. But beyond that and other artistic reasons, a historical reason exists as well. Scott wanted to make , using history, true history, a historical fiction of england. The idea being, who is english, and Ivanhoe is about how, the Saxons/Normans/Jews/Picts/... romans/druids all had a role in making england. The english aren't ancestral to the island commonly called england. The english is the name of the mulatto group derived from all of those peoples over a long time. In the same way, the usa is facing a similar reality, like its parent england. Beyond the fact that Lyndon B Johnson let in the populace some consider a horde with poor thinking or planning Immigration Act speech https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=2785&type=status Kerner Commission https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=2685&type=status The reality is, the modern immigrant populace is here in the usa and is a majority, not based on phenotype or religion or geographic ancestry but on the desire to have their best individual life in a safe environment, in NYC they are already mating with each other in ways maybe the rest of USA doesn't see yet. But, I have seen mexican-chinese or muslim-jews , the kind of mixing going on in NYC proves to me that in twenty to forty years a population will exist in the usa that isn't chained to the old racial lines, for better or for worse, and trying to push them out , when they have no where to go, will only exacerbate their growth. The funny thing is, I find the immigrant populace is willing to embrace the imperialism of the usa more honestly than the old white or Black DOSers. I think for modern immigrants the usa should embrace its imperial truth, which whites have never stopped trying to deny while Black DOSers have always prayed wouldn't happen and tried to preach away. On 1/24/2026 at 7:28 PM, Pioneer1 said: As AfroAmericans we should be asking ourselves WHY are these people being allowed to come in and given opportunities and favors that many of us weren't given? I have a better question, why didn't elected black officials make the case? Charlie rangel was head of the ways and means, a senior donkey, many acts fail to become law in the congress, no harm is trying every year. How many times did black elected officials try to get legislation specifically for blacks passed? Bills have failed with zero votes, even from the legislator who sent the bill to the floor H.R. 3989 (105th): User Fee Act of 1998 https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/105-1998/h207 H.R. 3085 (106th): Discretionary Spending Offsets Act for Fiscal Year 2000. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/106-1999/h511 I checked reparations to see what has happened and I found the following https://www.govtrack.us/search?q=reparations https://www.congress.gov/search?q={"congress"%3A["119"]%2C"source"%3A["legislation"]%2C"search"%3A"reparations"}&pageSort=latestAction%3Aasc then I made a better search, "reparations black african american" all congresses; from oldest https://www.congress.gov/search?q={"source"%3A"all"%2C"congress"%3A"all"%2C"search"%3A"reparation+black+african+american"}&pageSort=dateOfIntroduction%3Aasc then i removed all but legislation/laws https://www.congress.gov/search?pageSort=dateOfIntroduction%3Aasc&q={"source"%3A["legislation"]%2C"congress"%3A"all"%2C"search"%3A"reparation+black+african+american"} then i searched "reparations black african american" all congresses; from oldest https://www.congress.gov/search?q={"congress"%3A"all"%2C"source"%3A["legislation"]%2C"search"%3A"reparations+black+african+american"}&pageSort=dateOfIntroduction%3Aasc and finally , realizing the returns weren't applicable i tried "jim crow reparations" ; all congresses; oldest to youngest https://www.congress.gov/search?q={"source"%3A["legislation"]%2C"congress"%3A"all"%2C"search"%3A"jim+crow+reparations"}&pageSort=dateOfIntroduction%3Aasc then I just placed "jim crow" and finally a correct return of results across the history of the congress https://www.congress.gov/search?q={"congress"%3A"all"%2C"source"%3A"all"%2C"search"%3A"\"jim+crow\""}&pageSort=dateOfIntroduction%3Aasc the oldest record from one thousand nine hundred and twenty two is the following from 1884 December 17, 1884 Vol. 16, Part 1 — Bound Edition https://www.congress.gov/bound-congressional-record/1884/12/17/16/house-section/article/313-324?q={"search"%3A"\"jim+crow\""}&s=3&r=1 referring to then to be president grover cleveland not abandoning the negro in the south to "Jim Crow" cars on the trains. the earliest law was a joint resolution in 1995 for abernathy, out of 804 in the entire history of the congress https://www.congress.gov/bill/104th-congress/house-joint-resolution/183?q={"search"%3A"\"jim+crow\""}&s=2&r=1 the oldest report out of 31 https://www.congress.gov/search?pageSort=numberAsc&q={"congress"%3A"all"%2C"source"%3A["comreports"]%2C"search"%3A"\"jim+crow\""} concerned aging https://www.congress.gov/committee-report/105th-congress/senate-report/36/2?q={"search"%3A"\"jim+crow\""}&s=5&r=1 First this confirms my point that the Jim crow era was from 1865 to 1980. as from the late 1980s onward, the rainbow era was in swing. now the whites allowed blacks, through nonviolent action, to have a say. But second, Jim Crow is a cmmonly known phrase in the usa and yet, look how late it is mentioned or impotently mentioned , even in the discourse of the congress. so black elected officials had to do better. Even if the bills went nowhere, they had to push more of them onto the floor. this connects to our discourse concerning legal action in the jim crow era. Based on white violence, black people needed far more legal representation. For every emmit till, there were a hundred or a thousand unnamed, un newspapered, black children harmed by whites. @Troy On 1/24/2026 at 7:17 PM, Troy said: Everytime a new and different group comes to the country in significant numbers it is the same thing, the Jews, the Irish, the Italians were all a stain on the country until they weren't. nice turn of phrase. yeah, and the truth is, fucking, has a huge role in this. As I mentioned to Pioneer about england, https://aalbc.com/tc/events/event/145-lucy-worsley-on-william-the-conqueror-janaury-18th-2025- / modern england was born from the bedchamber of saxon women and norman men. In the same way, Latin America was born from the bedchamber of Indios/firstpeoples/native american women or Black[african or indios women] and white european men. The immigrant groups have already started the mating process, it will only grow. Most white people in the usa today have german ancestry but most talk about being swedish/italian/french or other. so mixing happens. and mixing is what really leads to one peoples. Many jews in the usa didn't marry jews. this is part of the whole reform jewish community, and is why the orthodox jewish community opposes them in part. the reform jewish community doesn't demand a jew marry a jew which is part of orthodoxy/rules in the jewish religion. But that mixing of white jews with other white people, which white jews did a lot in europe as well, led to a lessening of friction between white peoples, the judeo christian union in the usa. The modern immigrant populace is creating an more wider new group with its intra and extra minglings. It is just a matter of time now. I see it in NYC alot already, but NYC has every flag in the world represented in it, it will take time for the rest of the usa to catch up but it will. My two favorite examples is when a black women was getting something to eat from a black owned business and she said I am from trinidad but my some is american, it was during juneteenth and we all giggled. Her son is half DOSer. And when a boy was getting something to eat, a man was speaking to him in a language from the continent... africa... and the boy didn't react. The guy kept trying cause he knows the boy but the boy only reacted when he said "hey". the boy only knows english and he is one generation removed. so... the center of the usa will be different . I don't know the exact countdown but the clock is ticking. I don't know the cultural designs but it is being formed. This is why the people of Nippon have always resisted immigration. yes, they do it historically, as they don't like outsiders and have a very tribal nature in themselves. But it has another function. when you embrace outsiders you have to change eventually. the myth that outsiders can come into any place and not force change in time is a myth, a lie really. Ramen noodles is chinese. That is the power of immigration. The japanese know this through their own history so prefer immigration to be as slow as possible, because they comprehend high speed immigration always speeds up high speed resetting of any country to refind a center between the current and the immigrant. The whites from europe before the usa was founded, started a cycle of immigration onto the First Peoples of the American Continents lands, never ending, constant, but the white power of 1492 isn't present today. White power exists but not the same like 1492 and the rest is history. The white enslavers or their descendents gambled their power could remain no matter how many people came in from anywhere, they were wrong. On 1/24/2026 at 7:33 PM, Troy said: Racists have their hands full now. huh? Too busy worrying about Latinos while their medical insurance, student loans, jobs, and social security is being taken away... financially rich whites who are less concerned about phenotype over money, sold to poor whites the idea that they could hurt blacks by bringing in lights/mullatoes/arabs//whites asians to accept wages less than black folk and it worked. alongside the ussr as a cold war rival. but when the ussr fell all of a sudden the usa had to do something with immigration and the fiscally wealthy whites didn't want to undo the global cheap labor market they created in the war against the USSR so they maintained the system and the fiscal poor whites got angry and that split between both led to Schrumpf.

AALBC end? - January 18th 2025 https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/11429-openpulpit-the-day-aalbc-has-to-close/

Lucy Worsley on Jack the Ripper -January 14th 2025 https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=2826&type=status MY THOUGHTS Learned some things about the killer who got away with it commonly known as Jack the Ripper. The environment of London where the murders happened I didn't know. The genesis of the Ripper murders for true crime is well explained. Very nicely done. For True Crimes... The blunt bloody mess of a crime is hidden underneath the media construct of motives and actors in the murder, the common populace financial or viewing endearment to stories that have real elements while laced with attention getting aspects to discuss safely in their homes, the ease of marketability to fantasy with a bit of truth keeps producers of content rehashing or reimagining the event until the murderer is the only element that has any truth. TRANSCRIPT ♪ Lucy Worsley: On the 7th of October, 1888, London was in the middle of a media frenzy. [Bell dings, hoof beats clopping] A tabloid newspaper had published a murder map. ♪ It showed the locations where, just days earlier... several women had been brutally murdered. Spectators flocked like tourists to London's East End to visit the killing sites. ♪ True crime is now a modern-day obsession. But how did the case of Jack the Ripper, back in 1888, set the template for this dark world of entertainment based on violence? ♪ In this series, I'm re-investigating some of the most dramatic and brutal chapters in British history. Oh, yes. Here we go. Man: And now you're face-to-face with William the Conqueror. Woman: They know that sex sells and that violence sells. Lucy: These stories form part of our national mythology. They harbor mysteries that have intrigued us for centuries. It turns very dark here. Woman 2: Clearly showing us-- Lucy: Refugees. They're such graphic images of religious violence. But with the passage of time, we have new ways to unlock their secrets, using scientific advances and a modern perspective. He was what we would now call a foreign fighter. Lucy: I'm going to uncover forgotten witnesses. I'm going to reexamine old evidence and follow new clues... The human hand. to get closer to the truth. Man: It's like fake news. Lucy: You're questioning whether we can actually take that seriously as a piece of evidence? ♪ In the autumn of 1888, it seemed everyone was talking about one story. A murderer was on the loose in these streets in East London. The killer had already targeted and butchered several women, and the press could not get enough of the story. Here's that exact, same murder map from 1888. We're talking about a serial killer. Of course, we're talking about Jack the Ripper. The entire nation-- in fact, the world-- was gripped by this unsolved case. These murders are now more than 130 years old, and we're still obsessed. I should make it clear that this isn't yet another search for the identity of Jack the Ripper. Instead, I'd like to investigate how this case became the prototype for all the true-crime stories to follow. ♪ I've come to the other side of London, to Kensington Palace, the childhood home of Queen Victoria. This might seem like an unusual place to begin my investigation, but I've long studied Victoria's life, and there's some evidence in her personal diary I want to get my hands on. ♪ This is a page of her diary from the 4th of October, 1888. "Dreadful murders," she writes, "of unfortunate women of a bad class in London." I wonder what she means by "unfortunate women of a bad class." That sounds like a euphemism to me. But the case was clearly on the Queen's mind. ♪ Victoria even telegraphed her Prime Minister, Lord Salisbury, with some strongly worded advice. Her words were sent in code to prevent messengers reading the top secret information enclosed. ♪ Here, the Queen is scribbling in her own writing what she wants the telegram to say. "This new, most ghastly murder "shows the absolute necessity "for some very decided action. All these courts"-- she means the little streets of Whitechapel-- "must be lit "and our detectives improved. They are not what they should be." And then she goes on to give the Prime Minister a telling-off. "You promised," she said, "when the first murder happened, to consult with your colleagues." But, she says, these things have not been done. Queen Victoria is applying serious pressure on her Prime Minister to track down and capture the killer. She was appalled by these heinous crimes. But just how were these murders catapulted into the diary of a Queen? Hi. Can I come on? Thank you. [Air brakes hiss] From the 1860s, newspaper circulation expanded as more people learned to read and the tax on paper was abolished. ♪ Fleet Street was where the nation's news was crafted and debated. The top papers were all based here, and a new mass readership was born. [Printing press clanking] ♪ The case of Jack the Ripper would begin with Mary Ann Nichols, also known as Polly, and she knew this vibrant newspaper world very well. Her husband William got a job as a printer's machinist in Bouverie Street, just off Fleet Street. ♪ Just around the corner from Bouverie Street is the Church of Saint Bride's, the journalists' church, and it was here in 1864 that William Nichols and Mary Ann got married. I've got here a copy of a page from the parish register. Let's have a look. Oh, here we go. A marriage at Saint Bride's. There's William Nichols, profession printer, and there's Mary Ann Walker. It was her friends who called her Polly. She was just 18 at the time of this wedding, and it's curious to think that William Nichols had no idea that one day his new wife was going to become part of perhaps the biggest story that these Fleet Street journalists would ever see. Polly and William were married for 16 years, but after five children and accusations that William was having an affair, Polly walked out. By 1888, she was scraping by on the streets of Whitechapel. She would be brutally murdered there on the 31st of August. ♪ Today, Polly Nichols is recognized as the first victim in this notorious case. I think I can maybe get an insight into our true-crime obsession by tracking how the press portrayed Polly's death. I've come to the British Library, which holds a massive newspaper archive. ♪ Some of the police files from this case are missing. In fact, some of them were stolen, which means that newspaper accounts are one of the key sources that I need to consult. There's so much information here. It's incredibly detailed, but there is a problem. ♪ I am all too well aware that you can't always rely on journalists for balance and accuracy. They're more than capable of spinning a story. ♪ [Crank squeaking] This is the "Pall Mall Gazette" from the 31st of August. That's the day that Polly was killed. I think this is one of the very first mentions of her death, but she's not named. There didn't seem anything particular about Polly's death at first. See what happens in the paper the next day. Oh, yes. And here, she's actually named. "Mary Ann, or Polly, Nicholls." And they've dug a bit into her story, who she was. And this is not without judgment. It says here she was "the worse for drink." ♪ This is "The Star" newspaper. More sensationalist coverage, and they've called their article "The Whitechapel Horror" and they say, "These are the crimes of a man who must be a maniac." ♪ By the 8th of September, there's a real sense of the story escalating. It's made the front page of "The Illustrated Police News," and this is just extraordinary. There's been a reconstruction visually of everything that's happened so far. So here's the finding of the body. We've got the, uh, the doctors in the mortuary, the inquest, and here is poor Polly, laid out dead in her coffin. "The murdered woman at Whitechapel Mortuary." It is incredibly distasteful. [Scoffs] But this was a-- a really low-brow newspaper, and at the back, you'll find adverts for how to buy porn. [Whooshing] Newspapers were now competing to provide the most lurid coverage they could. And look. We've got gory illustrations of Polly's injuries on the front page. Blood and gore continue to characterize the true-crime genre today, but what drove the papers towards this sensationalism in 1888? Media moguls had invested heavily in the new rotary presses. These ones could churn out 10,000 newspapers in an hour. But margins were tight in this business. For anyone to make a profit, there had to be huge sales, so this meant that proprietors were after really splashy stories. [Clanking] To discover the vital ingredients of a really splashy story, I've enlisted a former crime reporter who's very familiar with the business. Lucy: Paul, why was it that the press got obsessed with this particular case? The Ripper case had all the kind of classic elements of a salacious tabloid story, didn't it? Because it had the element of sex to it, it was a whodunit, obviously, the murderer was on the loose. There was the conspiracy-theory element to it, that it could have been somebody from the elite, and then you just got this whole sense of moral outrage that something so vile could take place in London. Do you think it was quite new in the 1880s to read about this kind of story in the mainstream papers? The mainstream seemed to be working off the back of the popularity of the shilling shockers and the penny dreadfuls, those salacious fictions that were sold for a penny on street corners. And so they saw how popular they were, and crime started getting more into the mainstream press. Mm. That's a bit of a new development. Now, as a crime reporter today, how do you know what's ethical to print? Well, today, it's a lot easier because the press broadcasters, they have regulators, so they have rules to follow on accuracy, privacy, harassment, and things like that. It's not the kind of wild west that it was in the 1800s, and they were just thinking about, "How can we generate more readers?" It just seemed like a free for all if you look back on it. I guess there was so much here that was novel and exciting and, in a horrible sort of a way, thrilling to Victorian readers. It would have been thrilling. It would have been shocking. More people bought these newspapers when they led on these stories. And then, if you fast-forward to now, look at the popularity of true crime, the true-crime genre. There's still this sort of thirst for this kind of story. Lucy: Here was one of the first unsolved cases to connect with a mass audience. The Victorians already enjoyed mystery novels, and now this real-life case tapped into their fears about violence and kept the reader guessing. Having talks to pull, it does seem significant that this almost "perfect" crime story came along at a time when the newspaper business was changing and expanding. For the journalists involved, it must have been a really fast-moving, exciting world. ♪ And just nine days after Polly was killed, the journalists had another murder to write about. ♪ In 1869, Annie Chapman had married John, a coachman. John's job meant that Annie had a comfortable life. That's how they could afford to have this studio portrait taken. But Annie's relationship would turn sour. Caring for a disabled son and losing a 12-year-old daughter, Annie fell deep into alcoholism. When John died, any support Annie had was gone. [Flash powder whooshes] ♪ I think what I take away from the story of Annie is just how easy it was in Victorian London to fall far and fast. In 1888, there was no safety net for women like Annie-- no financial support, only the workhouse, and that was so grim that many women preferred living on the street. ♪ Annie was murdered in the early hours of the 8th of September, 1888. Her body was found around 6 a.m. in a backyard in Hanbury Street, Whitechapel. Rumors that these killings were linked intensified in September. Here's the "Pall Mall Gazette" on the 8th. They say, "Another murder" and "More to follow?" They're basically hinting that there's a serial killer on the loose. Polly and Annie's murders had troubling similarities. Both women were murdered after midnight in the same part of the East End, and both had had their throats slashed. I'd like to do some detective work of my own. What seems to link Polly and Annie is Whitechapel. Why do all roads lead here? ♪ Whitechapel today is a vibrant, diverse area on the edge of London's financial district. But according to the newspapers, at least, Victorian Whitechapel was a distinctly dangerous place. Overcrowding was common. Riots often happened. People poured in, desperate for jobs, though, as Whitechapel was near to the factories and the docks. We can safely assume that one of the reasons Polly and Annie came here was to look for work. ♪ This is where Polly was living in the summer of 1888-- number 56, Flower and Dean Street-- and...this is where she was killed-- Buck's Row, that was called. And Annie lived at Crossingham's Lodging House, which was at Number 35, Dorset Street, and her body was found in Hanbury Street, over here at number 29. ♪ When you look at the map of Whitechapel like this, it's only a mile across. There's something so intriguing about how such a small area of town managed to create such an enormous nationwide panic. ♪ This archway is all that's left of Flower and Dean Street, where Polly was staying. But don't be fooled by the street's floral name. It was said it was too dicey for a single policeman to go in there on his own. They had to patrol in pairs for protection. The newspapers named Flower and Dean Street as the foulest and most dangerous street in London. ♪ These sensational headlines about Whitechapel were meant to grab attention, but could mislead. As a historian, I want to check them against other sources. There's a set of groundbreaking maps which might give me an insight into the social conditions at the time. Let's just unfold them here. So these were done between 1886 and 1889, and the first section to be done was the East End, including Whitechapel. [Gasps] Here we go. Here we are. According to Charles Booth, who created this map, he says, "I am sick "to death of novelists and journalists painting these very lurid pictures of life in the East End." He says, "My work, my volumes are going "to strip it all back to sober facts and numbers and statistics and nothing else." Who was Booth? Can you tell me a bit about him? Yes. He was a very, very successful captain of industry. He was an absolutely brilliant employer. He ran the Booth Shipping Line, and he could not understand why there was so much unemployment in London and why all the charitable donations that are poured in for the unemployed just weren't hitting the target, so that's how his survey gets going. They're really rather beautiful with all the different colors. I think so. Quite sophisticated for the 1880s, I have to say. What do the colors mean? Now, starting at the bottom, black is a very unusual designation for a work of social science. Not only is it an indicator of chronic poverty, it also brings the angle of morality or character into it, which means "vicious, semi-criminal." Here is Dorset Street, jet-black. Oh, where's Flower and Dean Street? They're here, and Thrall Street and Fashion Street. That's another jet-black region. Why do you think that the victims of Jack the Ripper were drawn to live in this Whitechapel area, particularly these black streets? Mm. All of these streets were filled with common lodging houses, and Whitechapel has more than any other district. It is the place with the greatest concentration of this very cheap form of a roof over your head, and so it absolutely attracted people who were just, you know, financially not able to manage. Would we call it a hostel today, do you think? That's what I think. People lived out on the street a lot more in the poorer parts of London because you didn't want to have to be indoors unless you had to. So, when you're walking through it as a stranger, like Booth was, you're seeing life out on the street. But of course, living your life out on the street like that also puts you at risk. Absolutely right, which, of course, leads into the Ripper killings. How do you think the people who lived in the yellow-- upper-, middle-, and upper-class areas-- how do you think they felt about the people who lived in the black areas? I think a significant number of people in the upper-class streets headed east to do what would become known as slumming. So, after a night at the opera, for example, or a splendid meal in a restaurant, they would hire their carriages and ask to be taken into the sort of very darkest heart of East-End poverty. And we have quite a few anecdotal snippets from people saying that these tiny little streets and alleys ended up after hours being filled with the most intolerable people, braying and laughing in their sort of fantastic clothing, just treating the poor locals as they were--like they were animals to be looked at in a zoo or perhaps in the old days of Bedlam, when people went to laugh at the patients. So that was deeply resented. ♪ [Trotting hooves clopping] Lucy: It wasn't just the press whipping up the story. Newspaper readers were also complicit. Victorians wanted to experience London's underbelly for themselves and get a thrill out of its perceived dangers. ♪ True crime in general gives us that same thrill. [Horn honks] It's not just entertainment. It explores our deepest fears and anxieties about society. [Clock tower bell chimes, flash powder whooshes] [Siren wailing] By the 10th of September 1888, panic in London was rising. There had been a marked escalation in the level of violence inflicted by the killer, and he was still on the loose. Like had been done to Polly Nichols, Annie Chapman's throat had been cut. It's horrible. Also, her body had been disemboweled, and some of her organs were missing. The police were struggling to make any progress with the case, but there was something new that they could draw upon for help--science. ♪ As Annie's death was considered suspicious, a full autopsy was conducted. The information from this autopsy was revealed in open court on the order of the coroner, Dr. Wynn Baxter. Dr. Baxter was keen for transparency, but this meant the reporters put virtually every single salacious detail straight into the press, uncensored. ♪ He was of the opinion "that the person who cut the deceased's throat "took hold of her by the chin, and then commenced the incision from left to right." It's interesting about what was in her stomach, which was nothing. She was hungry. Poor lady. It's so intriguing to see the authorities grappling with this new situation. On the one hand, releasing so much medical information to people who weren't doctors would have increased the horror and the fear. On the other hand, though, it also unleashed in the general public a fascination with this wonderful new world of forensic science as a means of potentially catching killers. And that's something that's still with us to this day. ♪ It's no surprise that the newspapers took full advantage of this openness from the authorities, and sales rocketed. The Central News Agency in London began sending the story across the Atlantic via telegraph. Reporters now swarmed into Whitechapel in search of new stories to feed the wires. The press was starting to do something different. They were not just reporting on the crimes themselves. That was no longer enough. ♪ By the 10th of September, the story was dominating the Victorian equivalent of 24-hour rolling news. There were the morning, the evening, the Sunday editions of the papers to be filled. The police hadn't made any official statements, but journalists rushed in to fill that vacuum. They were now using Pitman's shorthand, invented earlier in the century, so they could very quickly take down the statements of any witnesses. And they were competing to get scoops-- another new word of the 19th century. The whole business had become a contest between the journalists to get their own exclusive angles and to put forward a convincing motive for the killings. So if the journalists were desperate to suggest a motive for the crime, I think I should examine how they and the police combed over Polly and Annie's personal lives. Could I have, uh, a pint of that one, please? I don't just want to visit the places these women died, but also where they lived. I've come to the Ten Bells Pub in Whitechapel, a place they used to visit. ♪ I'm meeting the author of "The Five," a biography of the lives of the five victims, and an expert on historical sex work. Hallie, what I've learnt so far is that Polly and Annie were vulnerable. They had no fixed address. they had addiction issues, but this isn't necessarily how society saw them at the time, is it? Well, society saw them in a number of different ways. I have here the police reports that were written up when the bodies of Polly, or Mary Ann Nichols, were found, and Annie Chapman. And it's very interesting because the police officer who filled in this document, under the heading of professional calling, wrote the word "prostitute," OK? There it is, in black and white. Yes, absolutely. Prostitute. So why--why did the policeman who completed this form call her a prostitute? You're questioning whether we can actually take that seriously as a piece of evidence, are you? Well, a lot of assumptions were made-- [chuckles]-- at the time about what a dispossessed woman actually was. It's a real sliding scale at this time. If she was actually engaged in selling sex, if she was engaged in, you know, living with a man who was supporting her who she wasn't married to, you know, and Victorian society just liked to tar all of these women with the same brush. They were all the same thing. There was really no nuance applied. I mean, and there is--this word, "prostitute" was used so loosely, including by people who claimed to be experts in it. So, in the 1870s, somebody sort of published this supposedly authoritative treatise on prostitution in London and claimed there were 80,000 prostitutes in London. But if you read it, if you go beyond that statistic, which gets repeated over and over again, you see that he included in that estimate any woman living out of wedlock with a man. No way. So, you know, that-- and that number then gets repeated by historians through time, saying, "This is how big the prostitution problem was in London," but it's taken totally out of context. That's a very broad definition. Right? Ha ha ha! Exactly. It was impossible to tell who among the lodging-house community of women were prostitutes and who were just ordinary, poor women. It was just so blurred. Hallie, how was this issue probed in Polly's inquest? Well, it's very interesting because-- and we have here Polly Nichols' inquest, and the coroner's court was very keen to put her under moral scrutiny, as if to blame her for her own murder. And so they had her father, obviously, testify, and a number of questions were asked of him, and one of the questions was, "Was she fast?" So was she immoral? Well, did she run around with bad people? And he said, "No, I never heard of anything of that sort." But the coroner was really intent on kind of proving in some ways that she sort of got what she deserved. Julia, do you think that Victorians were "keen" to think of these women as sex workers? Because do you think that, in the Victorian mind, explains the crime that otherwise seemed motiveless? Julia: In a way, yes. In the 1880s, it's this moment when more and more women are on the street, and so the police and moralists are going, "Oh, how do we tell the difference, you know, how do we now know?" We used to know, if you're on the street at a certain hour, that means you're a woman of ill repute. Now that more and more women are coming to the West End for theater, for restaurants, for pleasure, these things that women weren't really allowed to do, those old rules don't apply anymore. So we jumped right into the middle of this culture war about what prostitution means. I think "culture war" is, you know, it's-- it wouldn't be a word they'd use, but I think it's a word that we could--yeah... It certainly makes sense, yeah. definitely apply to this moment. Lucy: What started as a news story about two murders had become a story about moral outrage. The press, taking their lead from the authorities, were all too keen to attach blame to the victims. So it seems that all too quickly, Polly and Annie got reduced to this one little word of "prostitute." And, sadly, I feel like this way of looking at women hasn't been left behind in the Victorian age. ♪ From the 10th until the 29th of September 1888, there were few developments in the case. Even in this age of sensational journalism, there was a limit to how long newspapers could spin things out. The story was running out of steam. It might have become just a footnote in history... but then everything changed. ♪ On the 30th of September, 1888, what became known as the "Double Event" unfolded. It involved a Swedish woman, Elizabeth Stride. She'd been shunned for having an illegitimate child and wanted a fresh start. But by 1888, Elizabeth found herself in Whitechapel and reliant on charity. ♪ As an immigrant, Elizabeth had registered at the Swedish church, which today is here in Harcourt Street. ♪ Now, the church often gave financial assistance to Swedish people in London who found themselves in need, and one of those people was Elizabeth Stride. This is a record from the archives of the church of payments made, and it's for the third quarter of 1888. Oh, yes. Here she is. "Stride, Elisabeth." She's received... a shilling. Ooh, and look at this. Here's a coincidence. A very strange one. Down at the bottom, this page of the accounts has been signed off by the priest ten days later, on the 30th of September... and that was the very day Elizabeth was killed. ♪ Elizabeth wasn't the only woman in danger that night. Having left an abusive relationship, Catherine Eddowes found herself dependent on alcohol, and in and out of the pawn shop. ♪ On the evening of the 30th of September, within the same hour and less than a mile apart, both Elizabeth and Catherine were killed. Elizabeth Stride was last seen at 12:45 a.m. in a narrow street called Dutfield's Yard. She was murdered about 15 minutes later. Catherine Eddowes was last seen at 1:30 a.m., and her body was found just before 2:00. It was under a mile from Elizabeth's in Mitre Square. Four women had now been killed within a single month in the vicinity of Whitechapel. ♪ Before the double murder of Elizabeth and Catherine could even reach the front page, something else shocking had taken place. A letter, purporting to be from the killer, arrived at the offices at the Central News Agency. This letter would be a turning point in the legacy of this story and the true-crime genre. ♪ Now, this letter is such an important piece of evidence in this case, and I've got a really rare opportunity to see it. Yes, the real thing, here at the National Archives. ♪ This is one of the most famous letters in history. [Gasps] Wow. Lucy, voice-over: I'm showing this letter to a criminologist who works with violent offenders. Is he convinced that this letter is really from the pen of the killer? "Dear Boss, "I keep on hearing the police have caught me, "but they won't fix me just yet. "I have laughed where they look so clever "and talk about being on the right track. "I am down on whores and I shan't quit ripping them till I do get buckled." Hang on. That's so powerful. "I am down-- I am down on whores," he says. What the writer's doing here is giving us something that this case did not have, which is a motive: "I'm down on whores." In my own work, one of the things that people ask all the time: "Why did they do it?" That the assumption is that the individual had some issue with prostitutes. "My knife's so nice and sharp "I want to get to work right away if I get a chance. Good luck. Yours truly..." [Scoffs] "Jack the Ripper." "Jack the Ripper." The first time in history those words appear. Yup, he wants to say, "Yeah, "I'm probably walking around you, I'm there." Yes. "You can see me all the time." Yeah. But actually, nobody knew who he was. What do you think the significance of the red ink is, Martin? It's quite simple. It becomes symbolic of blood. There's a line here. It says, uh, "I saved some of the proper red stuff in a ginger beer bottle." That means the blood from the supposed killing. Yeah, what--my thing is, if you mutilated someone in the way that the autopsy reports are, I'd like to know, how do you suddenly stop and scrape a lot of blood, or a vial of blood into--it says "a ginger beer bottle..." "to write with, but it went thick like glue and I can't use it." Well, even if it was glutinous, if it was fairly--you'd still be able to write with it. Depends on the implement you're using. So you think this description of what the killer is supposed to have done, it doesn't stack up. It doesn't ring true to you as something that would have really happened, putting blood into a ginger beer bottle with a plan to write a letter with it later? In terms of my work, having worked with people who have done horrendous things, what tends to happen is when the crime happens, the emotional impact of witnessing what they've done has significant impact. They don't satirize what they've done because if you really want to tell someone you've killed someone, you don't have to really go out of your way to write it in red... True. unless you're going to make a point with it. Do you think it's a bit odd that they've sent it to the Central News office, rather than the police? Of course I do, because you and I both know the moment you send a letter to a newspaper boss and they read it, they're just looking at sales. So the moment you get this, you're thinking, "I can make a lot out of this," and then the police will start thinking, "Well, how come we didn't know about this first?" That still happens to this day. It's like fake news. So whoever did this knew that they were going to generate publicity. Hmm. They knew. You think the letter is basically a fake? Writers are very, very good at fabricating the truth to make you believe it, and we're looking at this retrospectively, but I should imagine they could get away with it because there wasn't the forensic awareness to be able to prove it, because if they did, we wouldn't be sitting here talking about it now. What are the repercussions? This is a very, very clever way to fuel the kind of obsession with dangerous individuals. We get caught up in "Who is it? What did they look like?" When we look at crime fiction, we love the bad person. Actors love the bad person. Everybody loves the bad person. If you presented the reality about what victims went through, as a society, we'd have to respond differently to their act. ♪ Whoever wrote it came up with this really potent brand of The Ripper. It's impossible now for us to even think about a serial killer without thinking about Jack, and all that from a letter that was written by somebody who I believe had nothing to do with the actual deaths of Polly and Annie. ♪ Today, most people agree that the Jack-the-Ripper letter is a hoax, sent by a Central News Agency journalist named by a former Scotland Yard detective as Tom Bulling. But every time there's a serial killer on the loose, the name Ripper still gets trotted out. ♪ So, between the 1st and the 4th of October, 1888, both the deaths of Elizabeth and Catherine and the letter purporting to be from Jack were reported in the papers. The case was now notorious worldwide, and the manhunt for Jack the Ripper was now on, and anyone could join in. Lots of these newspaper readers now turned armchair detectives, and they did the Victorian equivalent of wading into debates online. They wrote in letters with suggestions about the case to the police and to the papers. I've asked the National Archives to send me some examples so I can get an idea of where these armchair detectives were going to take the Ripper story next. Here we go. These are good. Some people were trying to help and were well-intentioned. This letter from Thomas Blair of Scotland-- [chuckles]--has what he thinks is a good plan. He proposes that police officers "be selected "of short stature, "and as far as possible, "of effeminate appearance, but of known courage." "And they are to be dressed as females "of the class from whom the victims are selected, "and sent out onto the streets at night to entrap the murderer." Not sure that's a very sensible plan. Then others were just malicious, kind of copycats, fearmongering. There was one letter from somebody called "George at the High Rip Gang." He said he was going to get to work in the West End, cutting up gilded ladies and duchesses, the posh women there, while his pal Jack continued his work in the East. And here's a letter clearly intended to cause trouble and fear. This person obviously knows about the "Dear Boss" letter. They've written in the same red ink, and it begins, "Dear Sir, "I shall be in Whitechapel on the 20th "of this month-- And will begin some very delicate work." "Yours till death, "Jack the Ripper. Catch me if you can." ♪ The public's investment in solving this crime mirrors the way that modern audiences engage with unsolved cases today. But these self-appointed Sherlocks flooded the Victorian police with false leads and triggered public hysteria. ♪ [Woman exhales] Lucy: By the end of October 1888, the newspapers were reporting that women traveling at night were half-mad with fear and carrying knives and guns. ♪ A woman named Mary Jane Kelly, concerned about the murderer, offered up her home to the vulnerable sex workers she knew in Whitechapel. Ten days later, she herself was murdered. [Woman exhales] Lucy: Because of the victim's profile and the way she was killed, she's believed to be the final victim of Jack the Ripper. [Woman exhales] ♪ Mary Jane's remains were discovered at 13 Miller's Court on the 9th of November, 1888. She could only be identified by her ear and her eye. ♪ Attention shifted to Shoreditch Town Hall, as it was announced as the location for Mary Jane's coroner's inquest. ♪ Reporters were poised to revel once again in the hideous forensic evidence, but they would be disappointed. I can see here from the transcripts that the new coroner, Dr. Macdonald, wasn't happy with having all the gory details of what had been done to Mary Jane revealed in the open court. That was quite unlike his predecessor, Dr. Baxter. It says here, "Dr. Macdonald's own opinion is "that it's very unnecessary to go through "the same evidence time after time. He felt it ought to be discussed in a closed police court. So this meant that unlike the inquest of Polly Nichols, which lasted for five days, the inquest into the body of Mary Jane Kelly only lasted for one. ♪ After Mary Jane's funeral on the 19th of November, the police tried to stifle media coverage by withholding further details, but with the papers not getting what they wanted, some of them turned their attention on the police themselves, and the women of Whitechapel were getting desperate. This article in the "Morning Post" perhaps explains why Queen Victoria knew so much about the case. It's a report of a petition that's been sent to her by 4,000 women, and they have written, "Madam, "we, the women of East London, "feel horror at the dreadful sins that have been lately committed in our midst." ♪ The newspapers' justification for their blood-and-guts approach to the Ripper story was that it would attract more readers, raise awareness, and generate change. But did this approach actually work? Lucy: Which cell do you fancy, Roz? Roz: Ooh, I think maybe Cell 4. OK. Looks like a good bet. Lucy, voice-over: My cellmate for the day is the author of the book "Violent Victorians." I hope she has the answer. Roz, what did the journalists say that the detectives hadn't been doing or had been doing wrong? Now, they were highly critical of the detectives and the way the whole investigation was run. One paper in particular was the "Pall Mall Gazette"... Oh, yes. which I have with me here. "Police not available." It says that the detectives are at fault, hopelessly at fault because... what's the explanation? Yeah. It just says that they're--they're useless. "The comment of a Whitechapel costermonger, 'The police can't find nothink.'" To be honest, they were doing all they could with the resources that were available to them. What we've also got to remember is the police had a lot of interference, outside interference with their investigation. Ah. So, as well as the vigilante groups that were established, who'd roam around the East End, they also got thousands of letters from members of the public, people pretending to be Jack or giving them information. They had to sift through all of those. So one thing the journalists were doing was criticizing the police. That filled up column inches. What else was there? So the newspapers at this time, they were already running this kind of critique of both the police and the investigation, as well as society. It's because this is the era of New Journalism, and the idea of social reform in New Journalism is very, very important. And I have this wonderful cartoon here from "Punch" to show you... that just sums it all up beautifully. "The Nemesis of Neglect." Neglect. Yeah. Gosh. This figure is called Crime, and he's holding a knife and he is kind of saying Jack the Ripper is this--this specter of crime that's arisen from poverty-stricken, dirty conditions at the East End. Jack the Ripper was representative of everything that was wrong with the East End of London. Once the story of Jack the Ripper shines a searchlight onto Whitechapel, and all these middle-class people get concerned about conditions in the area, does anything change? It does, Lucy. There are a number of things that the reformers want as a result of the Jack the Ripper murders: they want better lighting, they also want more police supervision, they want more police patrolling, and finally, what they want, they want to get rid of those common lodging houses that they see as being the center of the slum, being where all of the misery and the problems of the East End emerge from, and so, to do that, they-- they suggest a program of slum clearance and in their place to build tenements. Now, of course, the problem there is that the new tenements they build are not necessarily for the people who were using the lodging houses in Flower and Dean Street. Slum clearance in the 19th century tends to just exacerbate overcrowding and slum conditions in other neighborhoods as people are pushed out. Ah, so you build some fancy new buildings, and no one can afford the rent, so they go--where do they go? Further east. Lucy, voice-over: Exploring social justice is still a theme of true crime today. We often justify the pleasure we take in the gory details by arguing that this has a higher purpose. The Victorian Ripper coverage did draw attention to the harsh realities of life in the East End. But none of our five women-- Polly, Annie, Elizabeth, Catherine, or Mary Jane-- would have qualified for the new social housing. ♪ I believe the story of Jack the Ripper in 1888 set the template for a new kind of entertainment based on murder: how a crime story is constructed, commercialized, and then consumed. ♪ All the ingredients are here: the unknown killer, the dark city, the fallen women, the forensics, the police failings. But I've learnt that this isn't the truth. It's a kind of dark media fantasy, and it concentrates our attention on the anti-hero of the story--the killer, at the expense of the humanity of his victims. ♪

Avery Brooks saving Sisqo - January 15th 2025 https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=2828&type=status IF YOU DIDNT CLICK THE STATUS LINK ABOVE The Legend of Sisqó played by Avery Brooks I think the end of Deep Space Nine kept the old star trek adage the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one while maintaining Brooks desire to be a responsible husband+ father. ...the resulting episode, maintained sisqo the family man while maintaining sisqo a federation officer willing to do what is necessary to help the most ARTICLE Star Trek: Why Avery Brooks Changed Sisko's Original DS9 Ending The Star Trek: Deep Space Nine finale almost had a different ending for Benjamin Sisko before actor Avery Brooks requested it changed. DS9 was the third series in the Star Trek franchise and ran from 1993 to 1999 before ending after seven seasons. The show delivered its two-part final episode, "What You Leave Behind", in June 1999, rounding out its run with an action-packed and emotional finale that wrapped up a multitude of storylines. One of the most important storylines to get resolved, however, was the conclusion of the arc for DS9's main character, the underrated Captain Benjamin Sisko. Sisko's character arc revolved around him coming to terms with his role as the Emissary, an important spiritual leader to the Bajoran people chosen by their gods the Prophets to save Bajor by finding the Celestial Temple. Sisko learned he was the Emissary in episode 1, and this fact was the basis for many of his storylines throughout DS9. In "What You Leave Behind", Sisko finally fulfilled his destiny by stopping Gul Dukat from releasing the Pah-Wraiths, and subsequently joined the Prophets in the Celestial Temple. In doing so, Sisko left behind his life and agreed to reside with the Prophets as one of them, a non-corporeal being outside of time and space. Unfortunately, this also meant Captain Sisko left his family behind in the corporeal world, including his then-pregnant wife, Kasidy Yates-Sisko. During his final scene, Sisko was allowed to see Kasidy one last time, to tell her what had happened and let her know that despite everything, he would return to her one day. In the original ending, however, the scene depicted Sisko telling Kasidy he would never return and would stay with the Prophets forever, never seeing her or his son, Jake, again. This would have been a much less ambiguous, if sadder, ending for Sisko and his family. This version made it all the way to production and was even shot, but after the initial filming, Avery Brooks contacted Deep Space Nine's executive producer Ira Steven Behr to request the scene be changed. Brooks told Behr that after giving it some thought he was uncomfortable with the implications of a black man essentially abandoning his pregnant wife to raise their unborn child alone. Behr apparently agreed with Brooks since the scene was re-shot and changed to the ending viewers are now familiar with. Although the change was small, Brooks advocating for it helped make sure Sisko was not written completely out-of-character in the finale. Being the first black man to be the lead in his own Star Trek show, Sisko was a groundbreaking character for the franchise, but over the years, fans and critics have cited that one of the most important things about him was the fact he was a black male character who was a family man. At a time when the representation of black men as devoted fathers was scarce in media, Sisko served as a positive example for many. Brooks changing Sisko's ending to be consistent with his portrayal as fiercely loyal to his family made sure this reputation wasn't marred right at the end like it might have been if the scene had not been altered. Despite Brooks' change adding a hopeful note, Sisko's ending was still bittersweet. Additionally, even with viewer interest and the Deep Space Nine creative team having ideas of how to carry on, there has not yet been a continuation of Sisko's storyline, meaning fans have never gotten to see his prophesied return to his family. Even so, Avery Brooks making sure Sisko eventually would return was a very smart move and served to make the end of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine even better. URL https://screenrant.com/star-trek-ds9-sisko-ending-return-avery-brooks-change/ FROM Steven Barnes OF LIFEWRITING Avery Brooks was a shattering revelation. The most "male" black man I'd ever seen on television. I almost couldn't believe what I was watching. And according to Brooks, Robert Urich was instrumental in demanding that Hawk be Hawk. Bless him. Bless them both. Brooks eventually sacrificed his career to resist studio attempts to turn Sisko into a Magical/Sacrificial Negro...preferring to be a good father to his son. He didn't quite succeed, but the effort itself would have made Hawk proud.

Congrats to Black contestants in Miss America - January 14th 2025 https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/11420-the-miss-usa-pageant-the-surprising-number-of-black-contestants-2024/#findComment-71146 THE ORIGINAL POST STARTED BY CHEVDOVE @Chevdove https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/11420-the-miss-usa-pageant-the-surprising-number-of-black-contestants-2024/#findComment-71123 IF YOU DONT WANT TO CLICK THE COMMENT ABOVE OR GO TO THE ORIGINAL POST ... the following is the most well known black only female pageant in the usa https://www.missblackamerica.com/ the wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Black_America what it needs is more money. This event has been going on for 55 years in a row. You can't complain about regular black folks making it happen, it was regular black folks who did. It wasn't black thespians or singers. It started in 1968 and not by diana ross or aretha franklin or cicely tyson. Year Miss Black America Hometown and/or home state 1968 Saundra Williams Pennsylvania 1969 Gloria O. Smith New York 1970 Stephanie Clark DC 1971 Joyce Warner Florida 1972 Linda Barney New Jersey 1973 Arniece Russell New York 1974 Von Gretchen Shepard Los Angeles, California 1975 Donzeila Johnson Pennsylvania 1976 Twanna Kilgore Washington, D.C. 1977 Claire Ford Memphis, Tennessee 1978 Lydia Jackson Willingboro, New Jersey 1979 Varetta Shankle Mississippi 1980 Sharon Wright Chicago, Illinois 1981 Pamela Jenks Boston, Massachusetts 1982 Susan Wells Milwaukee, Wisconsin 1983 Sonya Robinson Milwaukee, Wisconsin 1984 Lydia S.Garrett Columbia, South Carolina 1985 Amina Fakir Detroit, Michigan 1986 Rachel Oliver Burlington, North Carolina 1987 Leila McBride Denver, Colorado 1988 Regina Wallace Florida 1989 Paula Gwynn Washington DC 1990 Rosie Jones Bridgeport, Connecticut 1991 Sharmell Sullivan Gary, Indiana 1992 Marilyn DeShields Virginia, Richmond 1994 Pilar Fort Detroit, Michigan 1995 Karen D. Wallace Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 1996 Basheerah Ahmad Choctaw, Oklahoma 2010 Ashley Anglin-Teen DC Metropolitan 2010 Kamilla Collier-Mullin, Adult DC Metropolitan 2010 Natasha Ashby - Teen Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 2010 Donielle Turner, Adult Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 2014 Alexandra Morton, Adult Baltimore, Maryland 2015 Jelisa Barringer, Adult Ohio 2016 Nicole Lynette Hibbert, Adult Delaware 2017 Brittany Lewis, Adult District of Columbia 2018 Ryann Richardson, Adult Brooklyn, New York 2022 Gabrielle Wilson, Adult Los Angeles, California 2023 Ashley Myatt, Adult Detroit, Michigan 2023 Elizabeth Dicker, Senior Newark, New Jersey 01/15/2026 https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12290-have-you-ever-heard-of-miss-black-america /#findComment-79347 For more information please view and read the following https://www.missblackamerica.com/ from 1968, here are some recent winners If you know any black women, please share this with them, please if you have questions you can contact them? https://www.missblackamerica.com/contact if you want to help https://www.missblackamerica.com/donations Troy they have an author's expos, I don't have the money but I imagine you do. https://www.missblackamerica.com/author-s-expo-page pdf info https://a60cd4c2-9ac1-4f86-909b-8059577f3c6a.filesusr.com/ugd/5fe1f0_8f6b3a2fa6bd47dfb5359bf756393475.pdf Sponsorship form https://www.missblackamerica.com/sop-delegate-sponsorship Are you the next Miss Black America? Registration Now Open- Click The Following https://www.missblackamerica.com/pageant-registry Little Miss Black America (7-12) Miss Black America Teen (13-16) Miss Black America (17-29) Ms. Black America (29-54) Senior Miss Black America (55 and Over). All Age Groups, All Ages, Register Today Queens from seven (7) years old and over. REGISTRATION DETAILS- no excuse for black dos women to enter Pageant Registration All Across the World We Are Beautiful! You can be a Contestant in the next MBA Pageant TV Special! Are you between the age of 17-29? Or, are you a Miss Black America Teen between the ages of 13 -16? A Little Miss Black America between the ages of 7-12? Or a Senior Miss Black America who is 55+? Complete the form at the link below https://www.missblackamerica.com/pageant-registry *Adults 17-29 Must be a High School Graduate or its Equivalent at the time of the National Pageant, MBA Teens must be Middle or High School students* Miss Black America Pageant Positivity Cruise - February 14th, through February 22nd, 2026 1/15/2026 citation https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12290-have-you-ever-heard-of-miss-black-america /#findComment-79364 comment Posted just now @Pioneer1 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: Not to take this thread in another direction but............ From the photos i have seen every winner of the Miss Black America pageant has been a black woman of medium to dark brown skin. Now I haven't seen photos of every winner. I haven't seen photos of every contestant. But the direction you have taken this post about uplifting a black owned beauty pageant has many questions, you didn't provide answers for when you shifted directions. 1. How do you define actual Black ? You mentioned "actual Black" but don't give a clear definition of how can be determined actual Black. Moreover why should the operators of Miss Black America adhere to such a definition? For example, if a woman with with two parents from india born in NYC with skin asians will call very dark, which is equivalent to what people in the USA call black, which is common among many Indian people, wants to run for Miss Black America, does she fit what you mean by Black? From a phenotypical perspective, said example woman is Black. Here are three images of kalo or black , indian females, older woman, young woman, child. All three are black. I don't know if habshi, which is the equivalent to Descended of Enslaved. Cause some ancestral indian people are black. Like some ancestral statian people, native americans, are black. Native Americans from southern tribes, the caribbean, are phenotypically black and not african. So I know you know your thoughts and definitions but you have to display them. If for no other reason it makes the multilog easier, unless you want to argue. 2. How do you define not-black or mixed? You mentioned " non-Black and mixed people" but don't give a clear definition to either term. Is mixed by phenotype, skin color ? is mixed by phenotype of ancestors? If mixed is by phenotype of ancestors, is it a one drop rule or is it a just immediate parents? For example, this is Fredi Washington. Who played the Peola character in the earliest film version of "immitation of life". She called herself black. She rejected hollywoods desire to have her lie about her background and claim she is white. And lived most of her life as a maid/nurse in Harlem. She definitely looked mixed. I call people like her yella. She is definitely more yella than Beyonce or Hally Berry or Dorothy Dandridge. And arguably even more yella than Hailee Steinfeld which says a lot. But she is black to me. From your definition she is mixed, so she couldn't apply for Miss Black America, correct? 3. Are you suggesting each candidate must be a citizen of the USA? I didn't read the rules of entry so I don't know how citizenship fits in Miss Black America. But a Black woman from Africa is Black so if she lives in the USA, why can't she run? Maybe she needs to be a USA citizen. I argue that is an even requirement, but is it mandatory? 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: Too often you have non-Black and mixed people who "back door" their way into these events and end up being hoisted over and on top of the actual Black participants. This is nothing but a product of self-hatred. Looking at a woman who is obviously not Black or looks like she's almost White...and calling HER "the most beautiful" woman in the community. One of my biggest problems with Beyonce wasn't Beyonce herself...but how she was often glorified as a symbol of "Black" female beauty. Whenever the subject of comparing female celebrities by race, Whites and Latinos would promote the women they thought were the most beautiful but when it came to Black people.....a lot of bruthaz would promote women like Beyonce or Halle Berry back in the day. Women who obviously weren't Black. A lot of pro-FBA podcasters are promoting lightskinned women as "ideal" models for who an FBA is or what an FBA looks like. They're pushing Beyonce and Angel Reese. Expand You didn't mention Hailee Steinfield. But, the issues you mention here are not about the participants but the organizers of events. The organizers of events aren't being self haters, the organizers of events are doing what you did in your reply, not be concise or specific in definitions. Expecting everyone else to somehow know what they are thinking or how they define. That isn't functional. If you wanted to block out certain black women... or any women, all you have to do is make the rules clear. But if the rules don't block out certain women from running then why shouldn't they run. And as for the host of events or people whether black or non black, no matter their language or background, who have a positive bias towards the phenotype called white and a negative phenotype called blacks , black people who produce/pay for events need to know who they are hosting or if non blacks are producing, what can you expect from the host of a non black show but adulation to non black beauty even if the show is labeled for black beauty cause the owners are not black. When you organize an event it is up to you to be clear, concise on definitions, not the people entering. 01/16/2026 https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12290-have-you-ever-heard-of-miss-black-america /#findComment-79388 @aka Contrarian 12 hours ago, aka Contrarian said: If Halle Berry and Beyonce self identify as ,"black" because one of their parents is black, then that's good enough for me and millions of other people who accept their decision. They are women of color and the source of the color contained in their genes and DNA is a male negroid parent. ( just like Obama, our first black president. ) Nobody in America has been appointed as the arbitrator when it comes to declaring what constitutes blackness. Because there is no collective consciousness among negroid slave-descended Americans, there is no consensus on this issue and no individual can declare otherwise. well said. and all I can add is, this post was started with the purpose to uplift Miss Black America and by extension other Black Pagents, like Miss Black USA, thank you @Chevdove The purpose of this post was never to create or debate an absolute definition of who is a black woman in the usa. @Pioneer1 chose to segway from talking about miss black america, for which he had nothing to add, into talking about people in media, black or non black, whose job it is to get views/likes/attention and how they succeed by maintaining a consistency in narrative that suggest the most beautiful black women in the world happen to be black women with a certain phenotype, as close to a white european womans' as can be. the problem being, the black pagents seem to have found a way through their rules to elevate black women who do not fit the identity of women championed in the media pioneer is so concerned with. While the people in the media pioneer is so concerned with are working in a white owned space, the opposite of the black owned of the black beauty pageants. So... your correct, Contrarian, but the issue of this post is uplifting the black beauty pageant and it is unfortunate how little uplifting was achieved. It says something about black discourse online, we are too concerned with arguments online. 01/18/2026 Citation https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12290-have-you-ever-heard-of-miss-black-america /#findComment-79451 @Pioneer1 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Your response actually did that....lol. nice try, you changed the course 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: my opinion organizations and contests like this should be used to UPLIFT Black women and improve their self esteem and especially the self esteem of Black girls growing up in this society. How can this be done if an organization/contest routinely uplifts and promotes females who don't look like them as role models they should aspire to? organizations and contest liek this do, the people you referred to are media people, none of them run pageants or anything similar 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Race is phenotypical...but is more than JUST skin color. race is any factor, phenotypical is just one 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I'd call her Caucasian/White...lol. even enough but fredi washington didn't, and more importantly, to the idea of beauty , we black dosers have to embrace our reality. We are a people who were once completely enslaved, that comes with a history of sexual abuse that leads to mixed babies, and the heritage of DOSers in the usa is for the mixed to be part of the black group. That is the heritage. rightly or wrongly. Now to the future, it seems the latin american pardo/casta heritage is settling in the usa, and will finally be the factor to undo what the one drop rule set in. but until then, the yella woman is black. 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: How can someone who is NOT an American even enter let alone "win" a contest designed FOR Americans????? what determines a black american isn't universallly defined by blacks. the issue pioneer is you keep missing the lack of consensus, means every black in the usa doesn't see anything in one way. 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: So how can a person not FROM here properly represent the beauty of those native here? natives? you mean choctaw or seminole? 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: If we're having a contest for the best tasting Chinese food.....would you bring tasty TACOS to the contest? since chinese food in the usa is not actually chinese cusiine from asia, and has more in common with tacos why not? 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: It's like having an athletic event for women without first defining WHO a woman actually is. yeah but that happens in the usa, because this country is the king f lawsuits which kill events. and that is because the usa protects individualism and individualism by default means no one's definition is ever correct. a trasngender woman can sue to be in a contest for humans born with a vagina. You say short sighted, but I argue, an inevitable reality of the usa. you see this in the white populace, it is a pan statian reality 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: ine WHO is Black, then soon you'll have White contestants being presented as "Black" and winning them to promote the idea that White skin, light hair, and light eyes are the most beautiful traits to be found among "Black" people. I call it the "Beyonce Effect" Where people who aren't Black are promoted as the "ideal Black". I disagree 100% , again miss black america or miss black usa prove you wrong. In media things that black people/dosers actually own or control in the usa I find the advertised image of black women is usually not upheld through the lens of the yella women but through the cocoa women. but both are still black. And as for all the black or non blacks in white owned media who emphasize the yella women over the cocoa women in the black populace, well, that is white owned media. 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Perhaps you are confusing healthy DISCOURSE with DISCORD. even enough, though I rather posit I am being too demanding to the tone or function of discourse. @aka Contrarian 7 hours ago, aka Contrarian said: Seems to me, the closest thing to a typical black Miss America candidate who would not offend anyone would be a poised female of smooth medium brown complexion with a full well- coiffed head of dark hair whose facial features are arranged in compliance with the universal golden triangle standard, and whose body is well-proportioned. miss america is run by whites... miss black america + miss black usa are run by blacks and i don't think any of their winners or contestants are offensive. I know I am not alone in said thinking. 7 hours ago, aka Contrarian said: Actually, however, I think role models are overrated. Why do little girls have to look to public figures to emulate. And do we know if this is as widespread a sentiment as celebrities clutching awards would have us believe? Ideally, a girl's mother or other female relative should be her role model. And I'm further inclined to think that her peer group is who most young girls want to impress because that was the case with me and my friends. I never fixated on celebrities as somebody I passionately wanted to look like. My friends and I just wanted to be the best versions of ourselves. So says the cynical contrarian unfortunately the media of the usa has become such a marketplace + battleground+ tool that it has grown in influence. And some little girls are orphans, some little girls are abused by their blood kin, some little girls don't find enough of themselves in those at home. the reason a little girl can find inspiration worth emulating are many. Ideally a little girl should be raised by her parents or the greater village to be herself, and figure out her role, not model off of anyone. Interesting, I never wanted to impress anybody as a child.I only had one poster of a human figure on my wall. 1/18/2026 CITATION https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12290-have-you-ever-heard-of-miss-black-america /#findComment-79474 @aka Contrarian I oppose that thinking , the word is perfect, a complete work, ompletion doesn't occur when all is good, that is imbalance. negativity must be part of anything for it to be truly perfect. life is even, it is human beings who are not even. It is human beings that make living uneven plus inequal. it isn't nature or other lifeforms. Nature promises balance. Humans beings imbalance. 01/19/2026 CITATION https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12290-have-you-ever-heard-of-miss-black-america /#findComment-79483 osted just now @aka Contrarian 13 hours ago, aka Contrarian said: no, right or wrong is not knowable in this issue, but maybe functionality is. Functionality defined as the quality of results. Does thinking a perfect world mean all is good get more positive results than thinking a perfect world includes all things? Does thinking a perfect world is an unattainable environment which humans have to embrace get more positive results than defining the perfect world as the world that is absent human involvement, which imperfects the world? 1/19/2026 Citation https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12290-have-you-ever-heard-of-miss-black-america /#findComment-79487 Posted just now @aka Contrarian 1 hour ago, aka Contrarian said: In a perfect world, as the adjective "perfect" suggests, there are no problems. Life is ideal. You are free to challenge that definition, but you can't prove otherwise. So, we have to agree to disagree. perfect comes from the latin per- meaning totally, ala perview is when something is viewed totally absent any part not viewed fect - means work. A total work has all in it. Perfect never suggest an absence. Problems are part of what makes the world whole, are part of the total world, absent problems the world can't be perfect, a total work. What you call ideal, a thing of an idea, in not perfect. It is the idea of a world without problems, that is not a perfect world, that is an ideal world, an imbalanced world. I have etymologically proven my position. I have always opposed the USA heritage derived from the english of using words figuratively. It weakens all words. We do like each other, as much as near total strangers can. We do not concur on definition. 1 hour ago, aka Contrarian said: I am in the throes of disappointment over the CHICAGO BEARS, my favorite football team, losing a game they could've won, but for the coach calling questionable plays and the receivers either missing their assignments or dropping the passes from my "adopted" baby boy, Quarterback Caleb Williams, so I don't feel like plowing through a maze of verbiage to further debate the implications of a perfect world. I'm mentally exhausted. if you have a video collage of sweetness running about, give it a view and lift your spirits 1/19/2026 Citation https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12290-have-you-ever-heard-of-miss-black-america /#findComment-79492 osted just now @aka Contrarian 1 hour ago, aka Contrarian said: @richardmurrayI prefer the dictionary definition of the word "perfect" which you might want to check out. I know of it, I have always felt the heritage webster started in the anglophone and unstraightly all humanity was an error. His implementation of a book of speaking based on figurative definitions was the beginning of a literal horror show in linguistics, cause now throughout humanity, most, an overhwhelming most, preference to the idea f figurative definition which only harms the positive quality in communication. I wish someone black with money with my thinking had been around circa 1865 in the usa cause black people in the usa had a unique opportunity to have a much wiser sense of diction but.. it wasn't meant to be. 1 hour ago, aka Contrarian said: And I assure you that watching old reels of Walter Payton in action will not lift my spirits about yesterday's loss. Unfortunate, I hope you feel better sooner rather than later 1/19/2026 Citation https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12290-have-you-ever-heard-of-miss-black-america /#findComment-79494 d just now @aka Contrarian 1 hour ago, aka Contrarian said: I am not so inclined to dismiss popular usage. Language is fluid. Nothing illustrates this more than black slang and Ebonics. If you had your way, what word would you replace "perfect" with? Or are you of the opinion that any such state as perfection exists? Your sentiments in regard to Webster would explain your tendency to make up words. It is rare i do the following but I will paraphrase the white enslavers commonly called the founding fathers, concerning the peoples use of things: the people are stupid. Yeah black slang and ebonics while black people let the gullah dialect become endangered, the patios of new orleans be the same. Black people emphasize slangs we made, which are very figurative over , literally more potent forms like the gullah dialect or the patois of new orleans or florida. It is a taste thing, admittedly. Well, what word would I replace perfect with in the following phrase you wrote "In a perfect world, as the adjective "perfect" suggests, there are no problems. Life is ideal." I would replace two words: a and perfect and make adjustments to the following "In my ideal world, no problems exist" In a world I have an idea to no problems exist. Perfect meant a total work. As the zen say, it is the sunny side of the hill side the shady side of the hill. Problems must be in the world for it to be total. Yes, oonmoptopia I spelled it wrong. It's funny when webster was a boy, in england, people couldn't comprehend each other in various regions of england because their diction was so various. This was the same in france or germany. Meaning when webster was a boy there wasn't popular usage of words in england. every single region spoke differently in england, often incomprehensibel to each other. He comes up with this idea of a "standard" book of rules of words and speech for the english language. a dictionary for english. Dictionaries are as old as the royal bloodline of the nile, but never before were they advertised as a standard. And then with the advent of public school which wasn't common either in humanity. School historically was something paid for by individuals, it wasn't for the public , it wasn't for all. but with the idea of the public school plus dictionaries came what you call, very correctly, the popular majority usage of certain words certain ways as de facto official. Webster himself, made up words:) but post webster, now we have popular usage. So, yes I don't feel obliged to adhere to webster. But I want to defend my individualism, I am not looking for a flock. I simply admit myself. The popular usage will remain, will be adhered, but I don't care if I am alone with 999,999 other people I will be my way. 1/19/2026 Citation https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12290-have-you-ever-heard-of-miss-black-america /#findComment-79500 2 hours ago, ProfD said: Noah Webster did something i.e. fufilled a need. He codified the meaning of words. Black folks are free to do the same thing if they want to preserve gullah, patois, ebonics or any other language & words. Of the quote from Profd , I want it publicly said, I concur Webster did something. The rest of what Profd said I struck through as a lie or false praise or a misrepresentation of communal action. THE FOLLOWING IS MY EXPANDED VERSION @ProfD Well...doing something does not mean a need is fulfilled. It means a want is fulfilled. Humans beings have been codifying words since the time of the earliest leaders of the nile. I don't comprehend how Webster doing something thousands or millions did between the ancients about the Nile and Webster warrants mention. Dictionaries as I said to aka contrarian which you didn't quote sadfully, predate webster by thousands of years. Webster is key because in england the idea of schooling for the public had taken root, the first public schools were thousands of years before england, but with the advent of the english empire, the public school of england and the dictionary it used from webster was pushed on a global populace, adding the influence of the usa , the child of the english empire, english is the lingua franca today in humanity. this is a quote of what i said that you freely chose not to quote to make a half truth to webster. For my point which you disgard is that dictionaries shouldn't be used as standards. That is the truth. The reason why the ancients didn't was a thing called wisdom. Forcing a language to others is called slavery, and slavery doesn't work on rivals , so you can't relate to rivals forcing a tongue. ala why people in the usa say things, like, it is japanese. I don't know if you know because your words I just quoted suggest you don't. Languages die throughout humanity all the time, including languages of those humans considered in power. It isn't about freedom. It is about a complex collage of things. Language use is a collective thing, it is not up to an individual, it is up to a group and it requires many people working together, which doesn't happen with a snap of a finger. Language preservation is centered on communal organization, not freedom. The negro spirituals are proof of this. Most black people couldn't read + were completely enslaved but knew the negro spirituals . This is why appalachian languages are dying among white people in the usa, gardless of white power. anyone looking at your words will think that preserving a language is like riding a bicycle, which i find insulting. 1/22/2026 Citation https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12290-have-you-ever-heard-of-miss-black-america /#findComment-79536 Posted just now @Pioneer1 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Now, how can I change the course of YOUR thread??? this forum is a place of discourse, each topic is started by one but the path need not stay on the topic started. 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Just because mixed people are THROWN into the "Black" category by racists, that doesn't make it a scientific fact. you use the word thrown, do you know all the people in your bloodline? you shouldn't if you are a DOSer, and if you are a DOSer then are you suggesting the people with a phenotype , you call mixed in 2026 who were completely enslave pre 1865 are what then? 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Truth and facts aren't based on "consensus". true , that is true, BUT not all things can be defined explicitly. phenotypical labeling can not be reduced into a numerical form. Carbon is called element six but carbon is merely a name. it isn't a false name, but if I call carbon fingerplus, that isn't invalidated because it has no consensus. 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Is fire not hot unless enough people believe it and accept it to be? but labeling someone black isn't explicit. Fire, all types of fire, come from chemical or physical reactions that generate a chemical reaction commonly called fire. But the name fire isn't explicit. In the same way, naming someone black isn't explicit. Fire like race is always real, but the labeling is not rigid, and you have prescribed the label black a specific way which is not bound by anyone else. Nor is my definition for black bound to anyone else. But both are real. And going beyond the two of us, it matters how the black group defines black. 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: It's changed recently. I remember when the only media that gave dark skinned women their propers WERE the White media. Well.. When you say recently, Miss Black America started 1968. Again , Alice was enslaved 1963.. Malcolm was murdered 1965, mlk jr was murdered 1968... You say recently? when exactly? My reason for asking what time period because for me, Jim Crow was 1865 to 1980. Financially I don't see black ownership in that time period in the usa. YES, MAdame CJ walker was in the 1930s. But black people owned businesses in the lands that made up the USA before the USA was founded. Look at the American Revolution transcripts, I can't remember which off the top of my head. https://aalbc.com/tc/events/7-rmcommunitycalendar/week/2025-11-22/ Black owned media that could reach wide swaths of black people in the usa for me truly started from 1980 onwards. Every black town or city, or black neighborhood in a white city had local black owned media but none were strong enough to stretch across. Black Newspapers are black newspapers, newspapers don't usually do fashion, that is magazines. I know, I checked to makebsure, Ebony was started in 1945 and Jet was started in 1951 but most black people didn't have the money to buy jet or ebony. Jet or Ebony original audience was the black 1% so... when you say black media between 1865 and 1980, what do you mean? and as for white media? well how was white media treating any black woman properly? when you say propers, you mean dark skin women as maids? that is proper? Yes, I am little confused by your statement. 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: For a long time Black media was pushing light skin and White featured as ideal with the occasional honey brown sista if she was pretty enough. The only time a real dark skinned sista could get on is if a White man though she was "exotic" looking enough. And usually the dark skinned Black women they put on were from Africa or the West Indies...not the United States. I clearly don't comprehend Black Media as you are using it. I need your help. What is Black Media to you? I ask because when you say black media, I don't think you see black media like I do. When I think black media I think black owned media, meaning the money or the producer is black. Black panther is not black media. it is white media with black people in it. BET is white owned, that is white media with black people in it. Black owned media is rare in the usa. BET was sold by a black man to whites, who then sold it to other whites, paramount to skydance. TVOne is black owned, by a black woman. I can't recall a black owned film production firm comparable to the likes of disney/paramount/warner bros et cetera. Like Obama being the black president of a white country. Black presence doesn't mean whites don't own or control. Black presence doesn't mean black people are enslaved to whites but it doesn't mean black people own or control. You have made me think about this, if someone ask me , what is black media in the usa, throughout my life. I have very little to say. I will brainstorm the following BET for a very short time, so not BET. Black Enterprise magazine, going strong. I didn't know about miss black america or miss black usa to a mature adult, but going strong. TVOne going strong. The OWN network, though I don't know if Oprah actually owns the OWN network, so no OWN cause I am not certain. Forty acres and a mule, spike lees production firm, though alot of his movies he doesn't majority finance,so I say no. I know Malcolm post production was financed by a collection of black people but the majority of production pre+filming was white. so , no forty acres and a mule Milestone comics, but how much money did dwayne mcduffie and company actually provide. at the end of the day DC financed those comics so.. no milestone, and I love, Blood Syndicate. It is my favorite comic from the usa. Amsterdam News, my local black newspaper, still going strng. Harlem Week in NYC, still going strong but that is local Jazzmobile, was once really great, but when billy taylor's spirit flew, that really reduced the vitality of jazzmobile, but it is still going on, albeit less potently. a show like like it is was local but financed by ABC. Killens Review is from MEdgar evers college, but again, Medgar evers gets alot of money as part of CUNY So white owned for me. it isn't a private college. and NYC, or NYS state's government is white, at least to me. The Olmec company which made Sun man, but they closed down. Ebony magazine or Jet MAgazine I admittedly, never saw my parents with an ebony or jet magazine. Some relatives would have them but it wasn't grandiose. and their firm went under and assets are owned by whites now to my knowledge, though I am not sure. if I look at my life and what is black owned media in the usa, which is what I think of is Black Media, that I was aware of and still around. Black Enterprise Miss Black America+ Miss Black USA TVOne Amsterdam News Harlem Week Jazzmobile independent local media efforts by blacks who had money at the time So half of those things are local to me. all but two are regional, north east. Black enterprise or miss black america. So, what region of the USA were you born in? Cause, the midwest and deep south have nothing in my view, even locally when it comes to black media. So.. I think dark skin black women locally in NYC have been very visible in local media. I remember many posters as a kid, local things, festivals fairs. That wouldn't reach far. Sun man was a toy but the audience was mostly NYC. So... What is black media to you ? Because once I comprehend how you view black media I can comprehend your statements better. In my life, white media is the dominant avenue for black presence in media, and I don't see any black presence in white media as indicative of anything black. Cosby show. Fresh prince of bel air. A number of those black romantic films. Yes, Black presence but we don't own those things. The truth is black people own very little in the usa, but again, that shouldn't be a financial shock if black people are honest about our financial history in the usa. Slavery + Jim Crow were very real. 1980 to 2026 is only forty six years and not even of financial opportunity but financial allowance. from 1492 to 1865, enslavement, and then 1865 to 1980, jim crow, the black populace was intentionally stopped or stymied by white power, by any means necessary, and the black populace had no violent means to stop it. Now, I do argue black people needed to have a legal pro bono movement to somehow match all of the white crimes or illegalities against us by whites but that didn't happen. 01/23/2026 Citation https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12290-have-you-ever-heard-of-miss-black-america /#findComment-79566 Posted just now @Troy On 1/22/2026 at 9:40 PM, Troy said: TLDR: but "beauty" pageants are a thing whose time has come and gone... and they really need to get rid of the ones featuring little girls. Too long didn't read ... the multilog, ok:) Well, I emailed the following to find out https://www.pageantplanet.com/ But based on unverified statistics your wrong. Pageants have not come and gone. And I can see how. With the advent of robotic labor, a pageant is a thing a human must do that is competitive. Like human sports, human contest of physical beauty must involve, humans. Come and gone, i don't think so. And with that role, the many pageants with little girls will remain. The industry of pageants makes a lot of money, it will not go away because certain populaces distaste for them or the legal ramifications of the abuse in various instances. @aka Contrarian thank you for your comment 1/24/2026 Citation https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12290-have-you-ever-heard-of-miss-black-america /#findComment-79578 @Troy I was directed to the following location https://www.pageantplanet.com/directory/category/pageant I don't think pageants are even remotely dead or a thing whose time has "come and gone" . It is clear their time is now, even with all who oppose them. I argue that pageants need some sort of legal management. 1/24/2026 Citation https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12290-have-you-ever-heard-of-miss-black-america /#findComment-79632 osted just now @Troy 3 hours ago, Troy said: I think they should disappear but we clearly disagree on this. What do you think about the idea of a beauty pageant for men. We'd get to prance around on a stage in our speedos being judged by a bunch of women. Well, I don't oppose beauty pageants or support beauty pageants. My only desire is if beauty pageants exist, black owned ones exist. And black owned beauty pageants do exist so I am content. I have no concern to beauty pageants as a warranted or unwarranted thing. I am only concerned with black people owning beauty pageants if they are present, or a black person being able to own a beauty pageant if none other are present. If the question is what do I think about someone black wanting to own a beauty pageant for men ? That is their business. I support them and I hope they gain whatever they want. If you are asking me, if I will invest in a beauty pageant, female or male or other, if I had money to invest? the answer is no. and I have never wanted to be a model. I had neighbors once, a black couple, both strip models. They made great money and had huge fandoms, relatively. But none of that is for me. If you want to know off the top of my head what I rather be doing. I rather work on designing a boat and showing that off sailing it. @ProfD 18 minutes ago, ProfD said: Off the top of my head...we could come up the Alcoholic Olympics. An event where people get drunk & try to do various things in competition to win prizes & money. isn't that reality tv shows? 1/26/2026 Citation https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12290-have-you-ever-heard-of-miss-black-america /page/2/#findComment-79743 sted 3 minutes ago @aka Contrarian good point, mister universe is a beauty pageant, it isn't considered a beauty pageant for the connotative definition of beauty in the usa, which suggest beauty is homosexuality or femininity, not masculinity. But beauty is agender, And a pageant is merely an artful production, a page as in page of a book. So literally, by literal definition, mister universe is as much a beauty pageant as miss america. It is only the poor use of language in the usa that suggests otherwise. @ProfD + @Pioneer1 Good dialog between you two. You both make excellent points. Profd I think Pioneer point has value in that it alludes to black people with money, the black one percent, have financially assessed the market and didn't arrive with a positive result. I have witnessed offline first hand various black one percenters say they wouldn't do a certain fiscal enterprise because they didn't see it as financially feasible. Do I think with two black female beauty pageants in the usa , both at least over three decades old, a black male pageant in the usa can't work? no. But I do think it needs to be sold a certain way. And of course, the prizes matter. As a white person said on a documentary about miss america i recall from years back, I paraphrase, many people in the womens movement hated miss america but miss america sent many women to college. Maybe instead of college an investment opportunity. I know the percentage of black owned investment firms has risen sharply in recent years so this can be a way of helping both. Pioneer, I think Profd point has value in that it alludes to black people with money , the black one percent, not wanting to take financial risks at certain level. I think many black people with money like investing where whites invest first with the idea that the whites safety net they can climb onto as well. Lebron James owns a part of liverpool that has returned a lot of money, this is because of Liverpool, the futebol club's fiscal scenario , it earns a lot of money as part of the collective bargaining with other teams in its league, it is in europe so the financial legal system is straight forward and not muddled like in the usa, thanks to Franklin deleanor roosevelt. But, Lebron has the money to own a wnba team or similar and isn't doing that because to be a majority owner means to risk your money. Many whites who own big sports teams, actually have debt lines they use. Most blacks with money don't have the same debt lines so it is a more potent risk. McCourt bought LA dodgers with debt money but sold it to an investment firm for a huge sum so he can pay back debt and have double or triple what he paid. But you need to be blunt, friends in the banking sector for that plan. Most black people with money don't have that. IN AMENDMENT in modern media entertainment most buyers are looking to sell. Sports teams/golf courses/ beauty pageants the idea is, you buy it now and it gains in media popularity and then you sell it later. with sports teams this works very well. The glazers bought Manchester United football club for circa a billion dollars usa in two thousand and five, now that club is speculated/viewed as worth on the market [honestly or dishonestly, rightly or wrongly] six billion and six hundred million dollars. so that is a six hundred percent increase in value in a twenty year period, a generation. WHich means thirty percent increase in value per year. Can a black male beauty pageant with no media legacy or heritage in an environment with gender definition problems get a thirty percent increase in speculative value per year? yes, is the simple answer, because all things are possible. But the honest answer is, who knows. How will men accept this contest? how will women? what if a cultural movement comes along that stymies the idea? Alot of questions exist that hinder financially safe investors touching it. Thinking on this I argue, it might be financially wiser to add a boyfriend of miss black america or miss black usa element to those pageants, where the boyfriends of contestants have a small contest. The female contestants wouldn't have to have a bofriend to enter miss black america or miss black usa as they never needed it before, but for those that do, a miniature contest can happen. the winner of the boyfriend of miss black america or miss black usa earns with their partner a business investment opportunity with a black owned financial investment firm, where they are given money and the investment firm puts up equal value. from 02052026 Citation https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12290-have-you-ever-heard-of-miss-black-america /page/2/#findComment-79983 @Chevdove any photos of you in the bikini contest?:) haha Thanks for sharing some of your experiences with the topic. Vanessa Williams is also a harlemite of new york city, her father was a dentist if I am correct. and yes, anything that exist, if black people want to control have to own their own. HAving something black own doesn't mean black people are forced to use it, but it means black people have an option that is black owned and has different rules. @Pioneer1 I see:) i am dictatorial in my style, I stifle imagination with the structure of my posts ok I your commentary did not attack or offend the post. Talking about who contest beauty pageants is within the topic of beauty pageants. My point is that these two black owned beauty pageants have emphasized women who can not be deemed yella/white/mulatto while not excluding the range of all black women which are all shades of brown. And since they both exists in the usa, which is a white european country, I think they are fine examples of black ownership that is honest to the larger situation of black people. My offense to your point, is that your talking about black media pundits, not the black owned beauty pageants. Said pundits are mostly male, who are on white owned media outlets usually, with their most beautiful black woman is the yellaist black woman narrative... I don't connect black male pundits in white owned media to black owned beauty pageants. It isn't that your wrong in assessing media pundits, but said pundits don't have any connection to the activities of the black beauty pageants. What matters is that the black owned beauty pageants in the usa exist which emphasize the value of the phenotypical aesthetic most black women in the usa have. The black pundits in white media may be more well known or heard than black owned beauty pageants but that means nothing. If I can find the black owned beauty pageants anybody black can and in them you have the most positive qualities. Black ownership/ unmixed black aesthetic/embrace of the statian black experience/ positive financial quality as both are decades old now. What more can you ask for in the usa? in my mind nothing. 02072026 Citation https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12290-have-you-ever-heard-of-miss-black-america /page/2/#findComment-80011 osted just now @Pioneer1 5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: my focus was that we need to make sure the Black women were BLACK women. Not identity thieves. 5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: They are brainwashed too. See my point. I do gather that maybe you comment to my post just to get me to comment back, but you speak of we and then identity theft and then brainwashing... In my mind I have many questions, who is we ? who can determine if an identity is stolen or an identity is open? who can determine if someone is brainwashed or simply of an opposing position? I realize that my discourse may seem overwhelming or lacking space for oppositional discourse, but when I think of the black populace in the usa or beyond i dont think of a we. it is a set of many groups united only in skin or appearance, some larger in populace, some smaller in populace, but not a we, that can act as one whole unit. when I think of the black populace in the usa or beyond, I see many identities, and not all are isolated, some are congruent to each other, and I don't know of any authority in the black populace to give a label to one of the indentities to any black person when I think fo the black populace in the usa or beyond, who can determine is brainwashed. In my personal experience it isn't brianwashing but simply free choice that black people make that has led to frictions amongst black people. When the black DOS christian churches in majority supported the war on drugs, which was a governmental program to cover the government creating and supporting multiple illegal drug industries in the black populace for the jim crowian purpose of harming the black populace, it wasn't because of brainwashing, the black churches made a choice. The reason wasn't complicated. Black churches are not the oldest christian heritage in the black populace of the usa. the oldest christian heritage in the black populace of the usa is the negro spirituals of enslavement, a heritage which has no bible, cause black people weren't allowed to read, nor a physical church because black people weren't allowed to own land or have a home. The black church heritage is the second oldest christian heritage in Black DOS history and is based on an integration with whites who wanted to grow their religious communities with black members, by building churches + schools for blacks. So, the black church heritage was born of blacks willing to make deals with whites and place the responsibility of the black populace in the usa on the black populace gardless of any white actions, like burning a black town to the ground or making towns of black people sick or imprisoning town of black people, all which happened more times than any court cases for it from 1865 to 1980. I am not a brainwashing believer. I think humans make choices with full comprehension, I think too many humans want to force mass action, collective action and get frustrated when collective mass action is harder to achieve than they think it should and call it brainwashing. I keep saying to you and profd, alot of other black people don't think the way you do, they are not wrong, they are not right, they are not brainwashed, you two like myself, must focus on finding and acting with likeminded black folk. so I say all of that to say, I have nothing of value to add after your comment, but I rather focus on positives and what can happen. Black people who are not interested in building something with other black people solely, are who they are. I can accept them.

Cicely Tyson in the Blue Bird 1976 https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=2827&type=status IF YOU DONT WANT TO CLICK THE STATUS LINK ABOVE Have you ever seen the film? Cicely Tyson, Elizabeth Taylor, Ava Gardner, Jane Fonda were in a soviet-statian co produced film about children on a journey which will help them find the greater meaning in hearth plus home than gold plus ego. The Blue Bird in 1940 starred Shirley Temple and had sondergaard who was originally cast as the wicked witch in 1939 wizard of oz Cicely Tyson/Elizabeth Taylor/Jane Fonda/Ava Gardner were in a movie together in the 1970s and it is a fantasy children's film wow https://ok.ru/video/2135063792291 and the blue bird has made it into modernity, a 2011 version was made I think it is interesting how these two films , film history has diverged since they first went to battle in the 40s https://youtu.be/XXg1ArCr8b8?si=Sa5iTl2BVNCx1zZn the baum photo gallery https://photos.app.goo.gl/R3tuukJR4BdMvkHP7 the blue bird book- free to read https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/maurice-maeterlinck_georgette-leblanc/the-blue-bird/alexander-teixeira-de-mattos https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/8606 https://librivox.org/search?title=The+Blue+Bird&author=MAETERLINCK&reader=&keywords=&genre_id=0&status=all&project_type=either&recorded_language=&sort_order=catalog_date&search_page=1&search_form=advanced I selected the play https://gutenberg.org/cache/epub/8606/pg8606-images.html The BLue Bird film in 1940 was made as a response to the wizard of oz 1939 https://www.deviantart.com/comments/1/1144642257/5184403693

Perihelion 2025- January 4th 2025 https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/11401-perihelion-2025/ Explaining Perihelion/aphelion/solstice/equinox https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/11401-perihelion-2025/#findComment-70999

How Scifi/Afrofuturism can help us survive( the next four years) from Tananarive Due + Steven Barnes - January 17th 2025 https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/11421-how-scifiafrofuturism-can-help-us-survive-the-next-four-years-from-tananarive-due-steven-barnes/ IF YOU DIDNT CLICK THE LINK ABOVE THOUGHTS AS I VIEWED 0:03 Octavia Butler's grave is still standing, survived the fires 0:05 introductions by Steven Barnes + Tananarive Due image 1 0:09 Steven says Afro futurism is our, black peoples, flavor of science fiction image 2 image 3 image 4 0:11 Science Fiction principles, one of three: what if, if only, if this goes on 0:15 How Steven Barnes met Octavia Butler image 5 0:16 Butler said human beings are hierarchal, and people put themselves higher on the levels. 0:17 At Clark university was the first black science fiction convention image 6 0:20 Octavia Butler was honest about the conditions and had a pessimism that she questioned into her work image 7 image 8 image 9 0:31 Steven says Creating art is a way of communicating things in words 0:32 Ray Bradbury, who didn't drive image 10 image 11 0:34 Steven felt Ray Bradbury's work was the warmest that he read Steven and his girlfriend at the time, took a story to Ray Bradbury . Great story on steven getting his first two letters from Ray Bradbury. 0:36 Butler was penniless till an mcarthur grant. Steven admitted he wasn't interested in living in poverty. he had to compromise his own voice working with a team to make a wage. 0:39 It is funny, at times I am so serious. Many around me suggest I need to lighten up. Maybe I shall listen:) Ray Bradbury said: I don't believe in being serious about anything. I think life is too serious to be taken seriously. Tananarive said Butler became despondant at times. 0:42 Bradbury's rules for writing. image 12 Write short stories, quantity creates quality. Tell the truth first Don't think too hard, especially in the first draft. Write what you love Study the work of the masters, the work that has survived for generations Take off the safety harness Use every experience that touches you Indulge in your own personal madness Don't be afraid to write crap, either Get comfortable with the idea of work image 13 image 14 image 15 0:50 Tananarive's work and Steven's work image 16 My thought: both writers visual examples display themes that reflect themselves. 0:54 Barnes said if you see a lack, you should write that lack 0:59 image 17 image 18 1:02 writing futurism course [ www.writerwebinar.com ] image 19 image 20 image 21 1:04 they will teach how to teach image 22 image 23 1:07 marketing tools from Due and Barnes, and aids. Affordable. image 24 image 25 1:10 stress and strain image 26 1:12 breathing, diaphragmatic breathing image 27 image 28 image 29 Questions and Answers 1:25 Steven Barnes: if you are just by yourself, you have to take care of yourself. Morning ritual of movement gratitude, motion. 1:28 They have a free zoom meeting every weekend 1:44 [ https://www.steven-barnes.com/live-classes ] steven barnes lion blood https://a.co/d/aV8XTDJ https://iloveafrofuturism.com/

2024 work list- January 4th 2025 https://rmnewsletter.over-blog.com/2024/11/12/01/2024-rmnewsletter.html IN AMENDMENT etching tutorial + examples video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ePnvM_PbUg site https://etchall.com/getting-started/ more videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XglJ6ZtNInI

Secret Santa 2024 for barrythebear2003 gift - Jan 11th 2025 https://www.deviantart.com/hddeviant/art/Secret-Santa-2024-for-barrythebear2003-gift-1145228286 IN AMENDMENT Nu perspective series this year he will draw each day in january an obscure black character from comic book land https://www.pyroglyphicsstudio.com/nu-perspective

Critmas 2024 - Jan 8th 2025 https://www.deviantart.com/hddeviant/art/Critmas-2024-1144042031 IN AMENDMENT Tumblr Black Author List an ever growing list https://www.tumblr.com/communities/black-artist-on-tjambler/post/772088989507321856/black-authors-list

Poetic Critique of Luthien and Beren by jjwinters - Jan 6th 2025 Around lovers the lines do swirls deleecate pairs to knobs as pearls about the scene the back is plain a rouge, a mauve, i say is sane await! i know co-missh control J-Jee no prob! you made the goal her skin or his a texture true the light is from above the two his hair a wild e brown affair her hair almond e worth a stare The clothes of both is too even fabric of elf is not humen The white in lines is good so flair E yet is dark balance to pair no need to see if suns inside perluminate! L and B glide from Richard Murray / HDdeviant See the inspirational image critiqued and more https://www.deviantart.com/hddeviant/art/Poetic-Critique-of-Luthien-and-Beren-by-jjwinters-1143440896 IN AMENDMENT the rare fantasy, based on 魔女の宅急便, phonetically Majo no Takkyūbin, in english 'Witch's Express Home Delivery written by Eiko Kadono. Kadono at the time of this rmnewsletter edition is ninety years old. The review focuses on one thing, that is why I am a Kiki fan. The film's story is uncommonly balanced, not the good vs evil dichotomy, but the total human existence. Like a number of Studio Ghibli films: "Whisper of the Heart" or "The Wind Rises" for example, the action is minimal, and the Christian duopoly is nonexistent, and I recall my own youth, amongst black folk in this black place in a white city, the most.

Art Vs Artist 2024 - Jan 5th 2025 https://www.deviantart.com/hddeviant/art/Art-Vs-Artist-2024-1142647712 IN AMENDMENT Pillow Fight Championship