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richardmurray

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  1. Endea Owens- read more about the bassist and a video of her art https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=2158&type=status
  2. @ProfD we will see:) sad the internet makes us all make disclaimers to our position
  3. A extended essay on ownership https://www.deviantart.com/theonewithbear/journal/Copyright-and-fair-use-A-deeper-look-into-AI-937264127 CONTENT Hello everyone, as the discussion on AI grows and attitudes become ever so polarizing on the subject, I decided I should elaborate and share facts on the law, as it is currently standing. Before I start, disclaimer: I'm not with nor against AI. I'm only interested in exploring the foundation of which a discussion is built upon. I believe it is important for any artist and freelancer to understand law, as it is a key in protecting ourselves. Fear and anger can do very little if the source of it isn't factual. Everything I write is based on my own research, readings, understanding and worded in my own ways. If I am wrong logistically, please feel 100% free to correct me, I won't be offended. This is written as of November 15, 2022. If the law gets updated, I will either update this journal with correct time and information or remove it entirely to avoid confusion. This is based on the US law (which is hilarious because I'm Canadian) and may defer from other country's law. FAIR USE "AI art", as it currently stands in law, is NOT illegal. It may not feel legal, but it is not illegal. This is due to the counter law to copyright: fair use. Fair use isn't just a term tech-bros use to defend AI's existence, it is something we, as creatives, have long benefitted from. Copyright protects the unique expression of an idea. Fair use protects unlicensed usage of copyrighted materials. Fair use allows creatives to make fanart (note: not sell), write fanfics, review video games, make parodies, write movie essays etc. to an extent without obtaining permission from the copyright owners. It is a law that exist to expand freedom of creativity in transformative nature. Fair use of copyright law (Section 107) calls for 4 factors: Purpose - commercial or nonprofit educational Nature of copyrighted work - creative or technical Amount of portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole Effect of use upon the potential market Copyright and fair use conflicts go far into the history, see cases: Summaries of Fair Use Cases A Tale of Two Seusses and Argued Fair Uses: The Fact-Specific Nature of Copyright Fair Use Cariou v. Prince — Artist Rights Banksy loses trademark battle after claiming ‘copyright is for losers’ Top 10 Cases on Appropriation Art and the Law I could go on, but I think you get the idea. As the verdict on whether or not machine learning should motivate an update on copyright law is still up in the air, currently, whether you like it or not, scraping the internet for AI training purpose and putting it to use still falls under fair use protection. Source: U.S. Copyright Office. Click on Videos to listen to the panels that took place in 2021 Source: Pondering AI Machine Learning and Copyright Fair Use "Protected" doesn't mean the court will rule in its favor, because it still depends on -how- it's used. As mentioned, fair use calls for 4 factors. To elaborate on each and use AI as an example (please be mindful that ALL of these scenarios are just possibilities, not absolute and can get really grey when used in combinations. I'm not a lawyer, I won't argue your case): MAY be protected by fair use: - the AI art piece isn't financially profiting - the AI art piece is generated with generic prompts and ideas - if the case is argued from the perspective where AI is built on billions of images, combined with personal photos, prompts, references and the result is transformative compared to the images used. MAY NOT be protected by fair use: - the AI art piece is profiting - is using specific artist's name/brand (note: NOT the art itself. More on this below) * - if argued from the perspective that it is built entirely off of copyrighted work and cannot exist without Additionally, the court may consider: - has the AI piece in question caused loss in revenue for the copyrighted work? - will the AI piece cause future harm in revenue for the copyrighted work? (Note: for the above 2 points to stand, generally, the copyright holder must prove that the market had the intention to pay the copyright holder prior to the market discovering the AI art piece) - is the piece "transformative" enough, meaning if the outcome resembles or reminds you or the copyrighted work, and/or has enough content and personal touch and ideas added to it to separate it from the copyrighted work, making it something new? If so, fair use. If not, copyright infringement. *Artist's name/brand: The reason I separated this into its own tab is because, names and brands don't fall under copyright, but rather trademark law. Copyright protects the unique expression of an idea, in our case, the visual representation of an idea. Styles, compositions, poses, color palettes, subject matter cannot be copyrighted as separate categories, but a unique combination of these categories done in specific ways can be copyrighted. IE: "girl in a black suit" can't be copyrighted, "a girl with red hair, mostly tied up, wearing black suit with yellow glowy eyes named Makina" can be copyrighted. Due to the transformative nature of an AI generated piece, the final product will bond to look different than the copyrighted materials. This may put AI art under fair use or give it bigger argument ground. However, if an artist's name is used as a prompt and the artist's name is trademarked, the case could go beyond just visual representation and fall out of fair use. Unlike copyright, which is automatic (though can be registered for certificate), in order to be protected by trademark law, you have to register for it. Further reading on trademark law and copyright: Copyright in Characters: What Can I Use? Trademark vs. Copyright: Which Do You Need for Your Business? Conclusion: It depends on how good your lawyer is. That's all there is to it. MISCONCEPTION "AI art can't be copyrighted because it infringes on copyright and is illegal" is a FALSE statement. The U.S. law dictates that machine cannot copyright its art, same as animals, plants and nature. If a monkey shits on a banana, the monkey cannot copyright the shit on banana. The machine cannot copyright the awkward looking cow it just generated with 5 words. The same does not apply to the human that uses the machine. On September 15th, 2022, Kris Kashtanova successfully copyrighted their Midjouney generated comic book, Zarya of the Dawn. The approval came from having presented credible creative process. Artist receives first known US copyright registration for latent diffusion AI art It is still early to say what this may mean for copyright law down the road, but it defeats the statement which AI art can't be copyrighted. On the other side of this coin, Microsoft, GitHUB and OpenAI are being sued for allegedly violating copyright law. The lawsuit against Microsoft, GitHub and OpenAI that could change the rules of AI copyright When giants are involved, landscapes shift. The verdict of this trial may be the one we should pay attention to. ETHICS Now we get into the muddiest area of it all, ethics. To be quite honest, I don't know how to discuss this area as it isn't logical and mostly emotional. Everyone on the internet is more ethical than the last moron. Everyone judges just one step below what they find acceptable. The bar of ethics varies vastly from one person to the next, but let's simply compare actions. I personally believe it is very difficult for the art community to talk ethics, as a very big portion of us thrive on fanart. Without fair use, 99% of the time, fanart is a breach on copyright as you've never obtained permission from the copyright holder to create a piece, so we benefit from fair use. Many of us don't just create fanart, we also sell them, which often is no longer protected by fair use and becomes copyright infringement. Many artists not only sell them, but also try evading copyright claims on Etsy, AFTER copyright claims were filed. I've heard many try to defend this by claiming that at least artists have put in the effort to improve craft compared to someone who just types in a few key words. In this argument, you're mixing the positions of victim and offender. The relationship is like this: AI Art - Artist (victim) vs. Tech bros (offender) Fanart - IP owners (victim) vs. Artist (offender) The IP owners have invested millions of dollars, years of effort, and hard work from not just one artist, but teams of people with various skillsets to create memorable characters and stories, just so an artist who has drawn for a few years can profit off of it. You may argue that the fanart you create and sell does not hurt the IP, which may very well be true. I never have any shame selling fanart of Danganronpa because 1. people who buy them already own the games and 2. I sold more copies of the games because people were curious about what I was painting and I speak highly of the games. However, me being able to justify my action in my head does not make it legal. As opposed to machine learning, which has no specific law currently to regulate it, I'm ALREADY breaking the law (plz don't report me to police kthx). So who am I to talk ethics? To me, humans are all the same. If it benefits us, we find ways to justify and welcome it. If it hurts our benefit, we try to burn it to the ground. A portion of the ethic problem with AI is also just context, attitude and usage. If a tech bro uses AI and acts like they are an artist who can do better than you, AI can go to hell. If a concept artist uses AI to speed up work in a production pipeline, AI is a useful tool. CONCLUSION The reason I wrote this journal is not to tell you what is right or wrong. This is not me telling you we should embrace AI with open arms or dump it down the drain. I just wish for people to be more informed on the current state of law, because so much of the anger is based on misconception and that doesn't help our case. Whether you have given consent or not at this point for machine learning doesn't matter, because there's no law to specifically target machine learning. If there is no law targeting it, then the current state of copyright law and fair use apply. You are aiming the pitchfork and torches at the wrong people. There may be very little we can do at the moment, however, please don't despair. Please don't forget the fundamental reason of why creatives are needed in this world and why we create. Tech bros may tell you that ideas matter more than skill, but they fail to recognize that they don't have brilliant ideas. They are just as basic and mediocre as they were before without AI. This is why we are only a few months in, and they have already saturated their own market, gotten bored because they realize it's hard to make a real profit. They can't come up with newer prompts and they can't look any different from each other. But the creatives will live on. We have the ability to be inspired and to build upon. It is in our blood and soul and AI can't take that away from us. If the millions of better artists out there never stopped us from wanting to improve and carve out our own space in this world, why should AI? There are many people I've spoken with that always wanted to draw. They used AI, it gave them the sweet taste of the ability to visualize their ideas, and now they want more. They want to draw. And that's wonderful. There are also many artists doing incredible things with AI and taking their creativity to the next level due to AI opening a sky beyond their limitations. Ultimately, we thrive on the little strokes we lay on the canvas; live for the fucking hot people we create. We have stories to tell, emotions to convey, feet anatomy to struggle with, and we know the satisfaction of watching our piece come together. We will shine through because artists are strong people, and we will find a way to co-exist.
  4. now0.jpg

    The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra has announced Endea Owens as its 2023 MAC Music Innovator. Owens is an award-winning bassist known for her vibrancy and international array of musical projects and collaborations. Endea is the bassist for singer Jon Batiste’s band Stay Human, house bassist for The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, and creator of The Community Cookout initiative, which brings hot meals and free music to communities in need.

    Learn more about Endea and the MAC Music Innovator residency with the following article

     

    Announcing Endea Owens as our 2023 MAC Music Innovator

     

    CINCINNATI, OH (November 10, 2022)—The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra (CSO) announced Endea Owens as its 2023 MAC Music Innovator. Owens is an award-winning bassist known for her vibrancy and international array of musical projects and collaborations. Endea is the bassist for singer Jon Batiste’s band Stay Human, house bassist for The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, and creator of The Community Cookout initiative, which brings hot meals and free music to communities in need.

    The Orchestra’s MAC Music Innovator is a year-long music residency that works to showcase and highlight Black leaders of classical music. Selected musicians embody artistic innovation and a passion for community engagement and education. With support from the Multicultural Awareness Council (MAC), a volunteer group that supports audience engagement initiatives with the CSO, the MAC Music Innovator will collaborate closely with the CSO’s Diversity, Equity and Inclusion (DE&I) and Learning departments to create a distinctive residency with educational and community engagement programs. During her time as the MAC Music Innovator, Owens will engage with area students, community partnerships, chamber performance opportunities, and a culminating orchestra performance with the CSO.  

    “We are excited to have Endea Owens as our 2023 MAC Music Innovator,” said Jonathan Martin, President and CEO of the CSO. “Her musicianship and heart for community, as evidenced by her work as the founder of The Community Cookout, are admirable. She is already a role model to young people who dream of carving a path for themselves in music, and we look forward to seeing the impact that Endea will bring to students in our schools and the greater community.”

    “I am deeply honored to be chosen as the 2023 MAC Music Innovator by the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra,” said Owens. “The CSO's dedication towards both music and community is nothing short of amazing, and being selected as a MAC Music Innovator is something that I hold very dear to my heart. Growing up, I rarely had the opportunity to see live performances of any kind due to many variables. Now with the help of the CSO, I can be a part of the change that I've always wanted to see. I am excited to perform alongside so many incredible musicians and bring classical music, jazz, free meals, and joy to people from so many communities. The true spirit of music always begins with the people.”

    Endea Owens is the 6th MAC Music Innovator since the residency’s creation in 2018, following violinist Kelly Hall-Thompkins (2018), pianist Michelle Cann (2019), composer and drummer Mark Lomax (2020), composer and pianist William Menefield (2021), and conductor Antoine Clark (2022). 

     

    ENDEA OWENS

     

    Known as one of jazz’s most vibrant emerging artists, Endea Owens is a Detroit-raised recording artist, bassist, and composer. She has been mentored by jazz icons such as Marcus Belgrave, Rodney Whitaker, and Ron Carter. She has toured and performed with Wynton Marsalis, Jennifer Holliday, Diana Ross, Rhonda Ross, Solange, Jon Batiste, Jazzmeia Horn, Dee Dee Bridgewater, Steve Turre, and many others.

    In 2018, Endea graduated from The Juilliard School, and joined The Late Show with Stephen Colbert as a member of the house band, Stay Human. Since then, Endea has won an Emmy, Grammy Award, and a George Foster Peabody Award. Endea’s work has appeared on Jon Batiste’s Grammy Award-winning album We Are, the Oscar-nominated film Judas and the Black Messiah, and H.E.R’s widely acclaimed Super Bowl LV performance.

    Endea has a true passion for philanthropy and teaching. She has taught students across the United States, South America, and Europe. In 2020, Endea founded the Community Cookout, a non-profit organization birthed out of the Covid-19 pandemic, that provides meals and music to underserved neighborhoods in New York City. To date, Endea’s organization has helped feed close to 3,000 New Yorkers, and has hosted over a dozen free music concerts.

    In 2022, Endea composed an original piece about the life of Ida B. Wells entitled “Ida’s Crusade” for the Jazz at Lincoln Center Orchestra, which was also performed by the NYO Carnegie Hall Orchestra. Endea has also written for brands such as Pyer Moss and Glossier. Endea is set to premiere a newly commissioned work with the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra, and will serve as the 2023 MAC Music Innovator with the organization. In addition to her work with the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra, Endea is the curator for the National Arts Club and also a fellow for Jazz is Now! with the National Jazz Museum in Harlem, where she presents original compositions, curates series, and headlines performances for the 2022-2023 season. Endea’s debut album “Feel Good Music” is set for release in early 2023.

     

    Article

     https://www.cincinnatisymphony.org/about/press-room/press-releases/announcing-endea-owens-as-our-2023-mac-music-innovator/

     

    Endea Owens and The Cookout: Tiny Desk Concert from NPR videos

     

     

  5. @ProfD The question is, will desantis run. If I was in his shoes, his situation, I wouldn't. Why? If Desantis face off against SChrumpf right now, does he win? yes If DEsantic face off against Biden right now, does he win? no. Desantis need to prepare his presidential run now, and too many uncertainties exist. Some in media say barack obama did it, but obama was a unique case. He came at the end of Bush jr who was very unpopular at the end, he lost the poal base. Obama is black and had Black people voting for him, unconcerned about his policy, hoping to see a black president before they die. DeSantis is anti majority of immigrants/anti complete abortion allowance/a white man... If he runs fair enough but if I was in his shoes, no way. LAstly, but also important, the POAL is clearly a regional party. Media in the USA is unwilling to state that cause that will be a hindrance on the POAJ. But, it is clear, most POAL elected officials don't have to worry about all the states anymore. The reality is the immigration act and the post FDR pre Schrumpf supreme court have changed the demographic landscape of the USA to highly urban/phenotypically mixed/gender identity mixed/huge immigrant populace. All of those are negatives to the rural/monophenotypical/publicly hetero only/nativist community at the core of the POAL. The problem is, if Desantis doesn't run SChrumpf has a clear field as all the others either are already under him or can only oppose him to a level without risking their careers they defeat him. And who risks their careers?
  6. The Honey

    Wakanda- yes, do I have artistic issues... I have artistic issues with everything in art. But, I am overhjoyed of this financial news. Happy for all the Black folk involved first, but everybody else as well. 
    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/black-panther-wakanda-forever-box-office-sequel-1235260713/

     

    The Pot
    When I look at it, barring SChrumpf's death. Biden has the most important role in Schrumpf not making a comeback to the White House. 
    Can Biden succeed in two years?
    https://twitter.com/NEWSMAX/status/1592709116715094016
     

    now2.jpg

  7. The question is simple. How can Schrumpf lose? Now two possibilities exist. 1) he losses in a primary of the party of Abraham Lincoln 2) he losses in a presidential contest against Biden/Harris or whomever the party of Andrew JAckson put forth The only factor that empowers either possibility is Biden's presidency. Can Biden's next two years be positive wholistically? Wholistically defined as positively influencing the financial reality across the 50 states in a serious way. Most people, over 80%, in the USA haven't been to college. Most immigrants I know offline in NYC seem to be anti open immigration themselves. Abortion, whether pro or anti, will never be applied across all 50 states until an amendment occurs. And an amendment isn't happening. Biden keeps threatening the oil or shipping industries while he grows the military expense. And who knows what seeds for the future have been planted in Ukraine or Taiwan by him. Is Biden clear in his agenda? yes. Is his agenda, working beyond minority, by populace, groups? no. Japan's economy is shrinking. Europe's economy is fractured. Africa/South East Asia/South America are in storms. Biden has work to do. And the anti trump members of the party of Abraham Lincoln can't cozy up to the party of Andrew Jackson. Biden has work to do. If he fails, I sense Schrumpf will have a bridge into the presidency. ... I don't want to sound simple, but Biden's health better be good as well. Kamala HArris was the attorney general of California and the black populace of California isn't in love with her. Kamala HArris proved she is a poor policy maker. If he falls, she becomes the first female president and I don't see her up to the task. IF she was a successful attorney general she could had vied for the governorship of california. Biden has work to do. If the next two years are going to be based on abortion and not letting the nutters in, I can see the anti trump POAL members getting more seats and Schrumpf becoming president. A third option exist... that Schrumpf dies, if he is murdered, depending on who does it, very dangerous. If he dies of age, then it is the one out both POAL or POAJ have.
  8. Wakanda- yes, do I have artistic issues... I have artistic issues with everything in art. But, I am overhjoyed of this financial news. Happy for all the Black folk involved first, but everybody else as well. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/black-panther-wakanda-forever-box-office-sequel-1235260713/
  9. @Pioneer1 fair enough @ProfD All I can say to positions is she should be the vice president now, over kamala harris. I think biden in choosing kamala harris chose someone more like himself a career elected official who has little policy value over the course of career but is well connected in certain circles.
  10. Thoughts to commonly called artificial intelligence and the deviantart tool known as dreamup https://www.deviantart.com/hddeviant/journal/I-Tell-A-Tale-Of-Dreamup-937255756
  11. Everyone in this community who wrote/drew/performed knows that in modernity control over one's art is a challenge. Here are some thoughts.
  12. This is not about games straightly, but refers to a problem all in the arts have. The following is two parts, my comments to others concerning this topic, and then the post by Chrissabug in completion below MY THOUGHTS As I said somewhere else on deviantart, all artists: musicians/writers/ those who draw, are in an environment where technology allows ownership of the arts to be a challenge, while the potential for revenue or exposure are larger than ever before. We artist have to calmly go through all this. as a writer, I know what the drawing community on deviantart is feeling. I end with what I always, keep creating folks. https://www.deviantart.com/chrissabug/status-update/I-wanted-to-gather-my-937031201 I am no lawyer, nor do I have any extensive comprehension of copyright/trademartk/intellectual property but based on what the lawyers I know or the artist offline I know who do, I concur to your position. I think the larger issue is simpler. The global communication phase in the electronic age has been a challenge for artists. In the prior phases, technology allowed for greater revenue or control while difficult exposure but in this phase, technology has expanded exposure to no limits,expanded revenue channels to all, but also diminished the control. Writers/Musicians/ all artist have felt the challenges in the now. And when an artist is tired of people telling them to get a real job or tired of the real job they have the commonly called Artificial intelligence tools or processes become like the christian seven horns. But, I have been fortunate to speak to artists who welcome the AI For their own pursuits, as tools that will help them. So, I end my speech on another person's soapbox with calm. I know the artist I am. I know the environment I am in puts me at some disadvantages, but that is ok. as long as I can create I will. https://www.deviantart.com/theonewithbear/status-update/Many-people-are-rushing-with-937091579 CHRISSA BUG POST I wanted to gather my thoughts about the AI situation here and help clear up some misunderstandings as well as share my concerns! (Video at the bottom) Let's first start with clearing up 2 main misunderstandings because there is a lot of misinformation spreading around: The opt-out feature has NOTHING to do with DreamUp. It is literally just a flag that says to outside bots that are scraping the internet for images "pretty please do not put this image in your AI dataset". If the opt-out flag is not checked, that does not mean 'opt-in', it just means the code is set to have no extra flag, which is what we already had (and have on every other website) before this update. Whether or not the bots will pay attention to this flag is up in the air, but I do believe it is dA attempting to start a new precedent of giving a way for artists to consent or not. It should have been auto-checked on from the beginning, BUT this flag doesn't actually do much of anything right now and I repeat, it has NOTHING to do with dreamup. dA doesn't get anything from this flag being on or off. DeviantArt themselves did NOT feed ANY deviations or other art into their AI to create Dreamup. DeviantArt did not take your images and put them in this AI. This is why that flag has nothing to do with dreamup. dA didn't train dreamup themselves. This doesn't mean I don't have concerns about dreamup but I want people to get the facts right So what's the problem? My main concern is that Dreamup is built off of a pre-existing AI (Stable Diffusion) and dataset (LAION). DeviantArt did not train this AI themselves, but the learning was already done and existed by scraping the entire internet for images. Deviantart didn't steal anything themselves, but building dreamup on top of Stable Diffusion and LAION means that they have built it ontop of a tool that is created with stolen materials, even if it is someone else who did the stealing. I don't think AI is going away and so we desperately need a truly ethical tool to direct people who are going to use AI anyway. I had hoped that dA would come out with this tool, but something built off of LAION isn't that. I like that dA is trying to get people to categorize AI art better and that they have a form to opt out of your name being used in a prompt, but again my main issue with dreamup itself is that is is built off of LAION. In all actuality, not a whole lot really changes here. dA themselves are not taking our images to train this generator, the flag doesn't really do much right now, and there are still outside bots trolling the web to take images as they already were. I'm not planning on leaving dA BUT now that the workweek has started, I do hope that dA takes the community feedback to heart. I, myself have voiced my concerns directly to staff and I now wait to see what they decide. I did a special stream talking about this and my concerns over the weekend if you want to give it a watch
  13. @Pioneer1 and to be blunt they don't have a need to be apologetic, this is where histories subtleties are important. the white anglo saxon protestants who came from england and annihilated the indigenous and enslaved the black african for financial profit pre or post independence from the british empire set up the rules of phenotypical race. Whites of asia/other parts of europe/who speak spanish simply benefitted. In defense the WASPS tried to make said other whites underclass but the world war era led the fiscally wealthy whites to stop that. The reality is, if the fiscally wealthy whites didn't allow for "white unity" and not WASP domination of the white community, the world war period happens differently. But while the rich whites pushed a white unity across religion- jews/language latinos-geography asians, they maintained an anti black wall that hindered black folk, but that wasn't the new whites responsibility or call. Now, many can argue that if one does nothing that is evil enough but, I think those as you say ethnic whites, looked out for their community while the black community in the usa, spent energy trying to make the usa something it isn't. When I look at Stacy Abrams you see the reality of the black community in the USA. in the over 150 years since the end of the war between the states. Human leader, Friend to all , Unifier, warrior of the integration agenda and yet, gets nothing. Abrams has helped a whole lot of other communities in that part of the south and a whole lot of other represenatives, but herself and the black community in georgia... not much. IT is like the civil rights act. The civil rights act was originally meant to be a black only act. When Lyndon B Johnson changed it to a tentpoll it became important for the USA today, and reflected some of the long range ideas of those like MLK jr but for the larger black community the civil rights act became nothing because with it extended to white women/white jews/white muslims/white latinos/white asians and or course the various mullatoes/mixed bloods the black community didn't get the lift that was part of the point of the original civil rights act call, which black people warranted since we never got a lift in the entirety of usa history as a group. So, they shouldn't feel guilty, it wasn't italians or white jews that set the table in the USA. And, unlike many , not all, of the Black communities leaders, their leaders overwhelmingly looked out for their own first. And I think that is always the correct action of a leader. Yeah, all humans are human. But, people want their leaders to lead to betterment, not philosophy, and too many black leaders in the usa, like stacy abrams, are so philosophical, everyone praises her but she doesn't lead to betterment to wins for herself or for her phenotypical community en large and what message or lesson does that give? So NYC's black leadership has to change, but of course, it will not. NYC's black leadership has long been entrenched in universal humanism/individualism/self accountability, and regardless of how anyone views those terms, they all gave and give black leaders in nyc from sharpton to eric adams talking points: we can only do for all/ black people have to be responsible/all new yorkers have.... even though to one of those ethnic groups, the white jew, who recently were discovered to have a set of schools with kids failing over 90% on standardized test were not told they will have the rules applied to all on them or that they have to be held responsible for failings or new york city has a standard by most black leaders in nyc. said black leaders said, they have to wait for court cases and to see what is happening and... terms they would never give black people in nyc.
  14. @Stefan the civil rights bill or voting rights bill was promised to many, I wasn't referring to a tentpole policy
  15. now1.png

    Elvis Mitchell on the set of Is That Black Enough For You?!? Hannah Kozak/Netflix

    Hollywood’s Black film problem, explained by Elvis Mitchell
    The venerated film critic on the unheralded Black influence on everything from soundtracks to Don’t Worry Darling.

    By Alissa Wilkinson@alissamariealissa@vox.com  Nov 11, 2022, 7:30am EST

    Over the past few years, movies like Black Panther and Get Out have raked in both accolades and box office returns, and the Oscar nominations hit new diversity records. To the casual observer, it may seem like Hollywood has made massive strides in moving from being overwhelmingly dominated by white actors, directors, and writers and toward a more inclusive environment. But from the standpoint of history, it’s startling how little has changed — and what that tells us about the industry.

    That’s why Elvis Mitchell’s documentary Is That Black Enough For You?!?, which starts streaming on Netflix on November 11, is so revealing. The veteran critic and journalist, a former New York Times film critic, has, among many other pursuits, hosted KCRW’s phenomenal interview show The Treatment since 1996. He brings a wry and curious lens to the history of Black film in Hollywood, weaving interviews with renowned Black actors and filmmakers from Harry Belafonte to Zendaya into his own story. In so doing, he challenges many of the settled ideas about the film canon, Hollywood history, and what it’s meant to be a Black artist on screen.

    I met Mitchell at a hotel on Manhattan’s Lower East Side to talk about those matters and a lot more. I wanted to ask him about Hollywood’s claims to inclusivity, about the still-common axiom that “Black films don’t travel,” and about why all of this history is really not so different from today. Our conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity.

    Alissa Wilkinson side Elvis Mitchell interview BEGIN

    Alissa Wilkinson

    You say in the film that Hollywood appointed itself “the myth-maker” for the world. Early studio heads saw themselves as the guardians of America’s morality and morale, and the exporters of a message about America to the world.

    But as you demonstrate, the story Hollywood told about Black people was often demeaning, and very far from the truth. What kind of an effect does that have on the myth that the country and the world internalize?

    Elvis Mitchell

    I think [Hollywood] was unique to film culture, different from any place else in the world. American movies were made by people who fled [their home countries] under enormous persecution, and then decided to create out of whole cloth this ideal of what America was — this America that they wanted to come to. And the America that they created is still being seen — it’s something popular culture is still responding to.

    We noticed as we were putting the movie together that so many of the people on camera — Samuel L. Jackson, Suzanne de Passe, Charles Burnett, Laurence Fishburne — talked about Westerns. The myth became that there was never a Black person on a horse. That would have been empowerment; as soon as you put a Black person on a horse, you’re saying that they have some control over where they’re going, literally, within their lives. We can’t do that.

    Back when Paul Thomas Anderson was talking about his film Boogie Nights, he talked about how absurd the idea of a Black cowboy is. So even Paul Thomas Anderson has been kind of rolled under by the idea the movies have created about what cowboys are supposed to be, rather than what they actually were.

    So much of Black culture has been about responding to myths created about Black people through various forms of media. That response came from actors as much as filmmakers, because so many of these movies are not directed by Black people. Actors took some claim over [reclaiming the truth about being Black], and that confidence and that brio becomes this really transfixing quality.

    Alissa Wilkinson

    But it’s not just about telling America what it is, or what its own history is, but also exporting an idea of America and its history to people who aren’t American. My sense as a film critic is that we still see the reverberations of world perceptions of American Black culture through that influence.

    Elvis Mitchell

    That gets to this message that’s constantly pushed in Hollywood — that Black film won’t sell overseas.

    Alissa Wilkinson

    Exactly.

    Elvis Mitchell

    This shibboleth that exists to this very day, one that was constantly fed and cared for, that Black movies “don’t travel.” But think about [renowned Senegalese filmmaker] Ousmane Sembène in Africa, seeing what Ossie Davis is doing [in America], or seeing 1972’s Sounder, and being inspired by that, and creating his own ... I’m not going to say mythology, but his own worldview about Black masculinity. When that’s missing, what does that do to the culture?

    It’s very convenient to say, “This stuff doesn’t travel.” Because it’s still this peculiar view of Black culture, even though it seeps in and subsumes everything. When you hear somebody on Fox say “24/7” — that’s hip-hop. They’re terrified by the “fist bump,” but they’ll say something is happening “24/7,” and thus they’re missing the entire point of their argument.

    Alissa Wilkinson

    Yes — here Ossie Davis is making films like Cotton Comes to Harlem and Black Girl, with roles in which Black characters can exercise self-determination, and it sparks something for filmmakers because their imaginations are expanded.

    At the same time, though, you bring up that Sidney Poitier was, at one point, the number one box office draw, and yet Hollywood executives couldn’t imagine that any other Black actor could also be popular with a broader audience. The thinking is that it’s just Poitier; it’s an exception, it’s an anomaly, it’s just this one guy.

    It reminded me of how people talk about huge, massive hits like Black Panther or Get Out today. There’s still a reluctance to greenlight big-budget Black films, because the thinking is, “Oh, well, that was a fluke.”

    Elvis Mitchell

    And what happens? We get a white remake of Get Out, called Don’t Worry Darling.

    Alissa Wilkinson

    You said it.

    Elvis Mitchell

    So at the same time, we have to be careful about the way we deal with Black film, because [Hollywood doesn’t think there are] “genres” in Black film; it’s just “Black film.” So when any Black film fails, it is a “Black film” that is failing, not that movie.

    I remember when Black Panther came out, I talked to so many people, including Oprah, who said, “This is going to bring in a whole new way of [making] film.” No, it’s not. Because what happens when a film succeeds in a major way? It’s imitated. How many Jurassic World [imitations] have there been since the first Black Panther movie? And now, how many imitations of Black Panther have we seen? The answer is none, because they’re still treated as if lightning struck.

    Alissa Wilkinson

    Absolutely. Hollywood loves to make big creature movies, even if none of them hit quite like Jurassic Park. And this goes to something I think about a lot, which is that Hollywood is fundamentally conservative. Often people think of Hollywood as a very progressive, forward-looking industry, but it’s risk-averse and prone to sticking with whatever they know — which becomes a problem when what you know is stuck in some false idea of reality.

    Do you think the reluctance to mainstream Black film in the industry is due to failure of imagination, built-in biases that they’d be horrified to be accused of, or what?

    Elvis Mitchell

    How much time do you have? Let’s send out for lunch.

    To your point, Hollywood is a community that thinks of itself as being incredibly liberal, except when it comes to exercising that liberal impulse. Maybe they think their liberalism and commerce are two different things, but no, they’re not.

    While we were trying to get [Is That Black Enough For You?!?] going, it got shut down by Covid; this was all happening at the same time that the country was reeling from the George Floyd attack, and the responses to that.

    Back then, I would get these calls, saying, “So we want to put together this blue ribbon panel to figure out what we can do to make things [in Hollywood] different.” Look, we don’t need a panel. I don’t have time for this. I have three words for you: Hire Black people. It’s as simple as that. And not just one [Black person], but several, so the one person doesn’t have to labor under the burden of having to explain all of Black culture.

    Alissa Wilkinson

    Your film feels a little bit like a story about all the people who have been told that something “simply isn’t done” or “just can’t be done.” But when it is done, it’s a wild success — like Melvin van Peebles self-financing Sweet Sweetback’s Baadasssss Song because no studio would make it, and then it being a huge, era-defining hit. I sort of feel like that might apply to your own film — am I right? I can imagine people saying, “We can’t do this, nobody’s going to watch it, nobody’s going to be interested.”

    Elvis Mitchell

    People in effect said that when they turned down this same material in a book pitch. I thought, oh, this is the kind of thing that could go on a bookshelf next to Easy Riders, Raging Bulls, or Pictures at a Revolution. This isn’t esoterica. I’m not talking about a wave of art films.

    In fact, these movies are not only enormous successes as movies, but they also created these soundtracks that were enormous successes, and then were imitated in ways that were enormous successes.

    People who know and understand film history say, “Why hasn’t this documentary happened before?” I say, “I don’t know. If a tree falls in the forest, and there’s nobody to hear it, is that a legacy?” I mean, this is what this comes down to. I hate to torture a metaphor like that, but if it’s not reported on, then it’s not a legacy — if it’s not examined, if there’s not context offered.

    Alissa Wilkinson

    I think a problem is that people get very emotional and defensive when you threaten their canon, their idea of who did what first.

    Why do you think this is?

    Elvis Mitchell

    There is this consistent boxing up of Black film culture. It’s this. It’s solely this. It is only this. It is Sidney Poitier. It is Black filmmakers finally getting a chance to work in the 1960s. It’s this thing that Melvin van Peebles has tried to fight his way, and then after that Spike Lee, and Robert Townsend, and so many filmmakers.

    One of the reasons I wanted to present the idea of the dangers of canonical thought is that nobody tends to think about blackface in Alfred Hitchcock, in the 1937 film Young and Innocent. I remember seeing that as a kid, and thinking, “Oh my god, there’s blackface in an Alfred Hitchcock movie?” Or there is this idea in canonical thought that 1939 is the greatest movie era in American movie history. Some of us disagree with that.

    Alissa Wilkinson

    But it’s accepted as fact, along with the idea that a set of white filmmakers changed film in the early 1970s. There’s truth to it, but there’s more to the story.

    Elvis Mitchell

    They end up feeding into that river of myth. “These filmmakers came and changed everything” — well, they did sometimes, but they didn’t exist in a vacuum.

    Alissa Wilkinson

    Getting a chance to see these things on screen, in front of me, might be what’s good about doing this in film form instead of a book. I had honestly never really been struck by the similarities between depictions of Mickey Mouse and minstrelsy, but of course, it was obvious once you showed it to me in the film.

    Elvis Mitchell

    This feels like this innocent thing. In fact, it is not. Or, I’m not going to say it’s not innocent, but certainly there are layers to this that need to be pulled away, so we can see the entirety of it.

    Mickey wasn’t keeping on gloves so he doesn’t leave any clues for a CSI team or something. “These are Mickey Mouse’s fingerprints, now we know who killed him.”

    Alissa Wilkinson

    Music is really important to this film, and it’s especially interesting to hear about how releasing a soundtrack before the movie’s release — pretty common now — was virtually unheard of before Super Fly.

    Elvis Mitchell

    By releasing the soundtrack [before the movie], and having it be such an immediate success, it created a must-see feeling around the movie. And it was constantly being played. If you drove around LA, you heard the commercial for the release of Super Fly. People respond to these songs, and then go out and buy the soundtrack. It is that rare case where you had people listen to the soundtrack before they saw the movie. So they created their own movie in their head through Curtis Mayfield’s soundtrack. And the movie, in some ways, couldn’t live up to that movie they created in their head.

    Let’s be honest, those songs are better than the movie. There’s great stuff in the movie, but as a dramatic creation, as a narrative with its own life, that soundtrack is extraordinary. The soundtrack was a huge artistic and commercial success, and every song was released as a single. This isn’t like you’re making A Hard Day’s Night, and the Beatles are already a hit; this is something that becomes a mainstream hit that then propels the movie to enormous success. Shaft followed its example, and it started to happen so much that by the time Saturday Night Fever was coming out, they had the soundtrack out two months before the movie.

    Then music videos also started coming out before the movie, and that became the coin of the realm for the ’80s, that the soundtrack was as important, if not more so, than the film. Super Fly did that.

    Alissa Wilkinson

    Now that’s all TikTok, 10-second clips. This summer the music from Baz Luhrmann’s Elvis started circulating on TikTok before the movie came out. I’m not even sure people knew what it was from, or that the “Hound Dog” remix was based on an Elvis song.

    Every year I’ve been doing this job, and especially when Oscar season arrives, the industry starts touting how far they’ve come in terms of inclusivity — the whole #OscarsSoWhite issue having pushed it recently. That is, frankly, embarrassing, when you actually look at who gets jobs and who wins awards.

    Elvis Mitchell

    Here’s the example. Suzanne de Passe was nominated for Best Original Screenplay in 1973 [for co-writing Lady Sings the Blues]. How many other Black women have been nominated since that, in that category? None.

    So when people would say to me, “Are you afraid this documentary’s going to seem dated?” No.

    My fear is that it will never seem dated. In the film, Zendaya says, “It’d be great to see Black kids playing together on camera, or to see more Black people in a sci-fi fantasy.” Was that going to seem like old hat by the time this movie came out? No.

    It’s weird to show this history to young people and have them go, “God, nothing has changed.” This is the thing that I wanted to try to find a way to deal with, too: Every decade we hear about this “resurgence in Black film.” But where did it go? It didn’t go anywhere; it just wasn’t being covered.

    To your question, maybe in some fundamental way things have changed, but it’s still about trying to wrest some control of this narrative. Certainly, the visibility of the phenomenon may change, but Black women aren’t getting opportunities to write movies. It’s as simple as that.

    It would be fun to say, “Well, god, in the three years since I’ve started working on this, so much has changed.” No.

    Alissa Wilkinson side Elvis Mitchell interview END

    Is That Black Enough For You?!? premieres on Netflix on November 11.

    ARTICLE
    https://www.vox.com/23447401/elvis-mitchell-black-enough-interview

     

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    Unknown photographer

    Betty Gabriel: The Unsung Black Scream Queen
    "THERE IS A LOT OF HORROR WITHIN THE BLACK FEMALE EXPERIENCE IN THIS COUNTRY," THE ACTRESS SAID. "THERE IS A LOT TO BE MINED THERE."

    BY RIVEA RUFF · UPDATED OCTOBER 28, 2022
    When the term “scream queen” is brought up annually around this time, images of white women narrowly escaping the clutches of a crazed killer or evil entity across film franchises or pivotal genre entries come to mind. Jamie Lee Curtis as Laurie Strode, locked in a 45-year-long battle against Michael Myers. Neve Campbell as Sidney Prescott, opposing the various murderers donning the famed Ghostface mask in the Scream franchise. Naomi Watts as the longsuffering mother fighting supernatural forces in The Ring and Shut-In, or scratching for survival in Funny Games or Goodnight Mommy.

    Less often mentioned are the contributions that Black women have made to the genre. Marlene Clark’s conflicted bloodthirst in 1973’s Ganja & Hess. Rachel True‘s vengeful teenage witch in 1996’s The Craft. Naomie Harris as a post-Apocalyptic warrior in 2002’s 28 Days Later.

    But perhaps the most prolific yet often overlooked of these in the current era of horror is Betty Gabriel.

    Starring in titles like violence thriller The Purge: Election Year, futuristic sci-fi/horror Upgrade, Screenlife slasher Unfriended: Dark Web, cybercrime horror-thriller limited series Clickbait, and of course, Jordan Peele’s innovatively genre-pushing racial horror, Get Out, Gabriel has broken the mold of the disposable Black friend of the protagonist or the film’s first victim.

    Gabriel’s performance as “Georgina,” the white grandmother of villain Rose Armitage (Allison Williams), inhabiting the body of an unnamed Black woman, is one of the most iconic in the genre’s history, hands down. Though she had only a handful of lines in the film, her spine-tingling, smiling-yet-tearful monologue about the kindness of the Armitage family is one of the most recognizable frames of the film. Subtle yet chilling, it’s the strongest clue of the horror at the root of the story before the hand is revealed in the film’s third act. And it helped set the tone for a renaissance of Black horror that has begun over the last 6 years.

    “I hadn’t really been aware that my contribution to the horror genre was significant in any way,” Gabriel says in conversation with ESSENCE about her status as a staple of modern horror. “I take it with gratitude.”

    Ironically not much of a horror film watcher herself – “I will get nightmares,” she says laughing – Gabriel fell into starring in a string of scaries by pure happenstance.

    “Starting out, you don’t really have much of a choice. You just take whatever work you can get,” the actress says. “Blumhouse, which was the main producer behind a lot of these films, kept hiring me, and I kept on saying yes to them. It wasn’t like I had a choice between this and a rom-com. It was a choice between this and not working.”

    “But I think perhaps on a subconscious, universal level, there is something about me that is drawn to these films, or they’re drawn to me.”

    Her first foray into chills and thrills came in 2016, for the second sequel in the wildly popular dystopian action horror franchise, The Purge: Election Year. Playing on societal fears over the turn the nation would take during the election cycle taking place in the real world just months later (and preluding some real-life political horrors that came about during the next Presidential term), the film tackled topics of politics and policy through the lenses of race, class, and religion – with a healthy dose of violence and mayhem, of course.

    Gabriel portrayed Laney Rucker, an ex-purger known as “La Pequeña Muerta” in her youth, now an EMT assisting victims of violence each purge night, fighting to keep a peaceful senator in line for presidency alive for the night with the hope of Purge eradication on the horizon.

    “It’s something I don’t really like to consume as an audience member, but as an individual, these are things that I definitely am haunted by,” she says of her connection to the material. “Just complete and utter chaos, the breakdown of our system, the guns constantly being a part of our everyday reality, and oppression.”

    “It’s one of those movies where it’s like, ‘Is this horror? Or is this just a really messed up version of reality that might come true, that kind of [already] is true?'”

    But her true big break into horror icon status came after a pretty harrowing audition process for Blumhouse’s new horror feature, written by that one comedian from Key & Peele.

    “I was backpacking through the mountains of Peru, as one does when you’re soul-searching and single,” she reveals. “So, I didn’t have any technology, no smartphone, no wifi, nothing. I was going to an internet cafe once or twice a week, paying 10 cents for an hour for internet, and I got the email audition notice.”

    Initially inclined to pass the process up, with no access to camera equipment, internet access, or even too many other people around who knew English, Gabriel tried to let this one go and move on. But something about the opportunity wouldn’t let her rest.

    “I went to the hostel, and went to bed, and just couldn’t sleep. So, I just woke up and went, ‘Ugh…I’ve got to figure this out. I’ve got to figure out how to get that tape in. I can’t pass this up.'”

    That realization led to a 24-hour bus ride to the next village over to visit a documentary filmmaker she stumbled across through a referral on Facebook, who not only had access to all the equipment she needed to film and upload her audition for the role but was from Chicago and knew English.

    “We actually shot it outside. There were birds chirping throughout the whole thing,” she laughs. “12 hours later, it was uploaded and submitted.”

    The rest, of course, is horror movie history. Get Out led to a renewed interest in horror films centering Black protagonists in authentically Black experiences, making way for films like Spell, His House, 2021 reboot sequel Candyman and shows like Lovecraft Country and Them.

    “I think that ultimately, we’re being more inclusive, and we’re being a bit more aware in how we don’t fully invite people to the table,” Gabriel says of the increased space that’s been made for Black people in the horror genre. “And I do mean certain ‘we’s.’ The ‘we’s’ in power. We pat ourselves on the back for issuing crumbs. In any genre, I hope it isn’t a trend. Hopefully, we see more beautiful Black women on screen.”

    Beyond the expression of horror in front of the screen, Gabriel is hopeful that the trend toward stories told by Black creators and about Black experiences continues, with increase.

    “I think with the horror genre in particular, there’s so much to be mined there, because there is a lot of horror within the Black female experience in this country,” she says. “I look forward to that being conveyed, and in a way that’s profound, and not necessarily [gratuitous].”

    Like many modern film watchers, Gabriel has a hard time viewing “Black struggle” and racialized violence against Black bodies committed to screen, though she sees the horrific stories they portray as valuable expressions.

    “I do find myself not able to watch certain stories that really focus on slavery. I just find it challenging and retraumatizing. But that’s not to say that they’re not important and that I don’t try,” she said. “And, there’s always an audience for any story.”

    “Personally, I think there’s something [special] to striking a balance between horrifying images, and transcendent nuances that we don’t always think about or see. Or things maybe we know on some level, but we haven’t quite seen [conveyed].”

    “I look forward to seeing horror evolve in general. I personally am drawn to subtlety, with lots of layers and complexities about the human experience,” she continues. “I think that’s what made Get Out so wildly successful was that everyone related to this protagonist. Even though a white person will never know what it is to be a Black person, something about that journey was relatable and universal. So, I hope that is the future of horror, with Black stories and Black people behind and in front of the camera.”

    Indeed, as Get Out opened Hollywood’s eyes to the bankability of Black horror, it opened doors personally for Gabriel, who has gone on to star in 17 more projects since the film’s release, 4 of which fall into the horror genre. The actress revealed that her role as Sophie Brewer in Netflix’s cyber-kidnapping thriller Clickbait, was the most pivotal on her journey through the genre.

    “For me, that was the most personal, because it was the most extensive journey that I had been on playing a character,” she says. “It was my first time playing a lead, and though it wasn’t my first time playing a mom, I was a mother who had to really be the mother and keep the family together, while also having all these secrets and all this shame that she was processing and dealing with.”

    Though the actress was considering stepping away from horror altogether in an effort to avoid typecasting, another horror project from a director of color recently came her way that was simply too good to pass up. Now presented with a choice, she chose horror once again – this time from another BIPOC perspective not often seen in American theaters.

    The as-yet-untitled horror slated for a 2023/24 release comes from Indian director Bishal Dutta and centers on ancient Indian legends and personal immigrant experiences, subject matter which is likely to resonate with Black viewers just as much as our South Asian brothers and sisters. She also joins season 3 of Prime Video’s action drama Jack Ryan this November, and Discovery’s Manhunt, dramatizing the search for John Wilkes Booth in the days after Abraham Lincoln’s assassination.

    “I think we’re in such an anxious place collectively that [horror is] really manifesting itself in a lot of stories,” Gabriel says. “So, yeah, I don’t think you can escape it.”

    ARTICLE
    https://www.essence.com/celebrity/betty-gabriel-unsung-black-scream-queen/

     

    West Coast Blues Society Caravan of All Stars - soundcheck
    Videographer: Ronald Reed

    West Coast Blues Society Caravan of All Stars

     

    SGT SMOKING BLACK animated trailer FROM DEMUZ COMICS


     

  16. in defense of NYC @Pioneer1 NYC has a larger black upper poor or lower rich than any other city. remember nyc has a significantly larger population than detroit or washington d.c. , atlanta, back then especially. The problem is, NYC was and is so large in populace that it the black wealthy or black elected officials will never have the financial power or government control to uphold or protect the black community against the others , whites or other people of color who are trying to help themselves in the same way.
  17. Good news:) It will make its money. Regardless of what you think of wakanda forever, all the black people employed, in my view, means its financial success is important for black people getting more work.:)
  18. Title: God Of War Bodypaint Artist: mcroft07 https://www.deviantart.com/mcroft07/art/God-of-War-bodypaint-936708610
  19. I Quote with bracketed inlets by me:) stevie isn't superstitious... <oh no> by rule...but when it comes to fun, he knows what what <who wrote this?> and when it comes to a game console system, only the atari 2600 will do. "my friends tell me the graphics are the best. I don't know what that means, but I know with th atari 2600 they must be upright and out of sight" <ok, now can you give me a dy-n0-mite! wow! who wrote this> Concluding thoughts Atari would had did better to make a game a blind person can play on the system... what a waste of time
  20. @Pioneer1 thank you. few cities in the usa were or are detroit:) thanks again
  21. To any black woman - can you say you have been massaged by any Black man like the black women in the vidoes at the following link? https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=2154&type=status
  22. now0.png

    Black Women, how many times in your life has a husband/boyfriend/kind male stranger massaged you in a memorable way? 

    The following guy makes his living giving massages.

     

    starlitoo side mremmanuellustin

    @mremmanuellustin All I want is you #emmanuellustin  @itsstarlito ♬ All I Want Is You - Miguel

     

     

     

     

    ti3rratravels side mremmanuellustin

    part 1 

    @mremmanuellustin I’ll be waiting for you #emmanuellustin @ti3rratravels ♬ Soon as I Get Home - Faith Evans

     

    part 2

    @mremmanuellustin How do you feel ? Let me know @ti3rratravels #emmanuellustin ♬ At Your Best (You Are Love) - Aaliyah

     

  23. @Pioneer1 I can't recall in my living memory or written record of an elected official delivering on a promise to black people explictly. I recall some speaking to black people directly, but not delivering. Can you?
  24. The problem of Wakanda side Talokanil for writer? and a few extra thoughts. My reply to the Knights Watch review of Wakanda Forever A review to Zuko's redemption I feel is a great reply to the Knights Watch review, focusing on my point that Wakanda Forever is through the cultural lens of the Black or Indigenous experience and thus unsuitable to judge by white european cultural standards. An introduction to the literary classic, water margins And finally, an Ode to Jet Li View at the link https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=2153&type=status
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