Troy

{sigh} OK, LOL!

I'm not so convinced of this now. Did you know Marky Z. knew about Russian meddling before it was known to the public? This is simply not true and is documented as such. When I was active on social media, I was feed so much anti-Hillary stuff, I almost did not vote for her. Cynique, it was you you talked some sense into me. The FACT is that Black voter turnout was LOWER in 2016. You can say that Facebook, and social media in general, had no impact, you are very ;ikely wrong given what we know today. Cynique, you are smart and by nature cynical. You lived MOST of your life before there were smartphones and commercial Internet. The majority of people running around today are NOT like you -- a huge portion of the electorate is deeply influenced and in many ways controlled by social media. I've seen all sides and have been a keen observer of the internet even before is was made available to the public. Rather than stubbornly sticking to your story, consider the information of someone who knows more about the subject than you. There is some true to this statement. I can say, in the south, culturally gender roles are much better defined. Some call it "old-fashioned," in any case it i certainly less confusing People who don't like this can always move to NYC or San Francisco. Yes that is the point of what I call Black male invisibility! First, please don't judge Black men collectively by this group of politicians and journalists. Second, when 45 was trying to shut down the white guy another white guy immediately vouched for him. When he was dissing April Ryan. Was there another Brother in the room to voucher for her? Was another Brother even given a mic during the entire press conference? Would this mythical Brother have jeopardized the press credentials for the media outlet he represented? Yes, I know you feel this way. I of course complete disagree, for the reasons previously stated and more. If you mean Twitter or Facebook no. Again, you can not use the tool of our opressor for our liberation, because we do not own or control it. There are fewer Black owned websites today which get much traffic or generate much revenue than there were 10 years ago. As Nubian Fellow was trying to explain Black people don't use our platforms (present company excluded). I sent you that DM Tweet correcting the WKDU story, which gave Publishers Weekly credit for my research. Then they lied and said it was because there are a variety of different numbers out there counting bookstores, that is because those sources reference my database at different times and publish different numbers. This is easy to determine, but rather than reference a Black-male owned website they instead gave credit to Publishers Weekly, the venerated white publication. This is a subtle form of marginalization that AALBC experiences regularly that goes unchallenged. -- even by my supporters. The full impact of this, over two decades, is impossible to describe on a discussion forum (that is what books are for ), but the bottom line is that we do not have any platforms that Black people support to a great enough extent to effectively advocate for ourselves. Many of us make great sacrifices trying. You mentioned the million man march, which as you know the mainstream media marginalized as well, focusing on Farrakhan personality (this influence is why many Black people dislike him). Today the Final Call Newspaper is perhaps he largest Black owned Newspaper in the country. The National Newspaper Publishers Association voted it the best newspaper in the country (out of 200 newspapers). As far as I know it is the ONLY nationally distributed newspaper in the U.S. Of course the biggest disadvantage of the publication is that it is run by the National of Islam, so many Black people will not touch it. Say what you will about the Nation, they have demonstrated the power of Black institutions and what is possible. But since they are marginalized by mainstream media Black people generally don't see the potential.

I agree.

True. There is no such thing as an African race, it too us an erroneous term.

Yes much more polite than hooker, whore, prostitute, street walker, etc. You imply it but that it is not universal, the way the words Woman and Lady are. You can find that distinction in the dictionary. If I say, "he is my dad," that does not tell you if he was a good dad or bad dad. However, if is say she is a lady that tells you something positive about the caliber of the woman. Now I appreciate lady comes with some baggage of culturally defined rules of what being a lady means, but there is a distinction none the less. @Delano, English is your first language right? I feel like im teaching my GED class to a non native speaker

@Cynique as you well know the popular votes does not matter why brig it up. 45 won the electoral college. The Russian are not stupid they did not just all willy nilly post positive Trump content. They went in, with surgical precision and target the right people with the right message encourage some not to vote and firing up his base in swing states. You clearly are unaware of the scope and magnitude of the campaign waged on Facebook to influence the election. @Delano, Dad is synonymous with father and does not connote anything about the quality of rearing. You have to say he is a "good" dad or "poor" dad to make the distinction.

This is good news. Access to capital is always a problem for Black indie businesses so it is good to see a community step up and support an institution. The previous owner of Wild Fig, Crystal Wilkinson is an accomplished novelist. @Mel Hopkins, it was refreshing to see read article you linked to reference AALBC as the source of the count of Black owned bookstores. The article reference another article which writes on WUKY's site which says, "Publisher's Weekly reports at least 108 were open in April of this year." Publishers Weekly is not, nor do they claim to be, the source. However WUKY attributes PW. This is sloppy journalism at best and racist at worse. Again I'm glad to see this data correctly credited for change.

Technically everyone one on Earth is of African descent. I think Blackness is a matter of culture, how one self-identifies, and behaves as a result. Like most things dealing with humans "Blackness" is distributed across a spectrum. I've met a few so called "white" people who were "Blacker" than some Black people I know, because they were so strongly culturally Black. I generally refrain from saying who is "Black" and who is not "Black." People are usually better at deciding this for themselves.

@NubianFellow, Google's algorithms are absolutely biased. The are written by young white boys and reflect their sensibilities, which they will never acknowledge. To make things even worse Google's search engine is biased by their revenue driven business model which results in them putting their own products up front, giving priority to advertisers on the SERP, and copying content from website reducing need for search to visiting the underlying sites;while enhancing the search products. Because Google is an effective monopoly in search their impact has been and can be quite devastating. If Google search disappeared tomorrow. I honestly believe the web would be better off. I don't think Google is fundamentally racist, but they are extremely greedy. Unfortunately the stuff that makes the most money in a white racist culture is the stuff that disparages Black people. I noticed this problem years ago have have written about it pretty extensively. Check out this article which explains how Google search results highlight popular Black authors problems rather than their accomplishments: https://aalbc.com/blog/index.php/2014/02/06/wrong-goodreads-google-wikipedia/ The problem today is that Black people have no alternative platform so they consume the same bullshit and believe it. In the past, we had our own news sources to counter this nonsense today we simply don't have enough and often the one who remain broker in the same type of nonsense in an effort to remain profitable. Fake news proliferates because the creator of this nonsense have the money and talent to game Google's algorithm Today it is to the point where I have to debate with other Black people why this is a problem... which make this whole thing exceeding difficult to thwart. Even Donald Trump in office and doing squat about climate change is not enough to convince people there is a problem. It seems the ability to share memes, humble brag, and spy on friends is more important. I think it appears that way because we are disproportionately impacted, but the whole world is potentially a risk -- and this is not hyperbolic.

@Mel Hopkins Pew Research publishes studies on this each year. Mel, at the risk of mansplaining reading book provides a deep dive into cultures outside of one's own. The books I've enjoyed the most did this for me. Whether it was the The Kite Runner or Cold Mountain, reading outside ones culture broadens one's perspective and helps one relate to their fellow (wo)man. You simply can not communicate ideas contained in a book on social media. Sure their are people who only read stories in the same genre from their own culture -- stuff they are familiar with. I think these readers short change themselves. It s sort of like going to Atlantic City every year for vacation. People can do what makes them happy, but that is not me, there is a whole world to explore. The same holds true for the World Wide Web; even if facebook were well behaved, why limit yourself to that one platform? I hear you Mel. From my perspective woman/man is a gender ladies/gentleman is more polite and formal way of addressing someone. I think we should keep that distinction, as it make the language richer. It is like the word father: a sperm donor is a father, but there is no English word to distinguish one who raises their children. Obviously, this is true. Generally, this is the case when the other person holds a different opinion. Ah, don't sweat it man, we all do it from time to time. I just try not to make it a substitute for a good argument For those of you who celebrate the white man's holiday, HAPPY THANKSGIVING!

Ask someone with a sense of humor like @Cynique to explain it to you @Delano True, I don't like your style of telling me what I don't understand while ignoring every question I pose for clarification. I do try to listen, perhaps you should consider doing the same. Fortunately, there are people in my life who can hear me. That does not mean they can hear me all the time. Shoot, from time to time, you even hear me Del. I don't expect perfect clarity with all people all the time... we are merely human.

I presume you are incapable of providing that huh?

@Mel Hopkins (1) OK woman, why don't you like being referred to as a "lady?" (2) Again, don't confuse my disagreement with a failure to seek understanding. I completely understand what you wrote I just disagree with it as it applied to Black men collectively. I not accusing you of failing to understand me. I am however of accusing Del of this; I often asked Del questions to clarify my understanding of what he writes but he never answers those questions while you usually do (I'm confident you'll address my question about "lady" to further my understanding of you thinking and not leave me to speculate (3) OK @Cynique I always loved your way with words -- even when you are completely off base I don't even know where to begin, because you just can't see my point. We live In a country where we've elected 45 as president, still you think everyone is sophisticated enough to see through the nonsense he and his trolls push out on social media. If this does not tell you how easily people can be manipulated by social media -- nothing can and I give up trying. I still think people should spend more time reading books than social media, but I guess those days are fading away. Teenage white boys like, Mark Zuckerberg, will determine what Black people read and think, except for the people like you who can see through it all. Despite your disparaging novels as it relates to reality; novel help people understand each other, more so than any mechanism I'm aware of -- even direct communication with someone else. I'm sorry you don't see it that way. @Delano I'm tired of trying to understand your perspective on this partially because you have a habit of eak for others rather than yourself. Why do YOU think Black men don't respect or defend Black women. Also, I don't need to you to tell me I took away Mel's agency or that I'm not listening to her -- she can do that. Ask much as I like Mel I don't agree with everything that comes out of her mouth, and my disagreement is not always because of a lack of listening. Should no on is perfect and Mel is capable of being wrong. If you really wanted to answer my question you would have just DM'ed me the answer. rather than asking me to do it here.

Hey @NubianFellow I created a profile on Nubian Planet https://www.nubianplanet.com/aalbc and have added it to the list of Black owned websites. I also added the other sites you referenced in your article. Thanks for covering AALBC.com! There was a period before the rise of Facebook and Twitter when the site's forum was far more active. In fact, there were many more active Black owned forums back then. The URL you have for Melanated people is incorrect the correct URL is https://www.melanatedpeople.net/ I could not add dotafro.com. It looks like their login is dependent upon Google+, and I was unable to create an account . Perhaps Google shutting down Google+ is the reason. I also noticed that something really bad has hurt Nubian Planet's organic search traffic, starting about two years ago. I've seen this many times before times and it is one reason the Net is dominated by the likes of Facebook. If you know the people running the site it is worth addressing -- like yesterday.

You ladies (and Del) are being inconsistent and are mistaking disagreement with a lack of understanding. Your thesis is that, Black men as a group have failed to respect and protect black women. Obviously, I agree. Now because I disagree with this I'm called a girl (or infantilized), I'm told I'm not listening, I'm told I'm taking away people's agency, etc, etc. However, in reaction, I gave examples of Black men who have protected Black women -- all of which have been ignored. I attempt to explain why you all hold this belief and it is rejected out of hand. This conversation is like one of religion, politics, or one's affinity for social media; one in which people have dug into the respective corners and uninterested in considering opposing ideas. My evidence that Black men collectively protect Black women (and vice-versa) is our survival in the country after hundreds of years of enslavement. We as a people could not have gotten where were are today without some form of mutual defense. I've also shared anecdotes from with wider culture, like the National of Islam's protecting Black women -- all of this has fallen on deaf ears. All I can assume is that you ladies have brought into the disinformation promulgated by the broader culture which degrades and marginalizes Black people -- Black men in particular. @Delano, since you ignored all of my questions I can only assume you do not spend a great deal of time with groups of Black men and have no personal experiences with the stories of us coming to the defense of Black women, so it is harder for you to relate to us. The invisibility of Black men (middle aged men in particular) is a theme I raise from time to time and it is ALWAYS summarily rejected. This conversation is additional evidence of our invisibility in the mainstream culture. There is a great deal of misinformation that has been absorbed by not just our Sisters but our Brothers (or at least Del) that needs to be countered. This is one reason I run AALBC. There are powerful stories of Black men protecting Black women available: read the novel Black by Joan Vassar. You might also try reading the novel Raisins in Milk by David Covin. These novels help counter the narrative of the helpless, hapless Black man who is too powerless to defense his woman. These novels are uplifting, powerful stories about love and family. You won't discover these novels on corporate platforms, who have no interest in uplifting Black people. If you get nothing else from what I've written consider reading these novels to counter the narrative of weak Black men. The future of our culture is on the line.

WHAT?! First, I can't take your agency away. Second I asked you a direct question: did you agree with Del's assessment given that he took it upon himself to speak for you. If you've construed that into my taking you agency then we'll just have to disagree. Del you seemed have complete to completely missed Nubian's point given the flawed premise of your question. The blanket statement that Black women are not being defended is untrue. Barack is protecting Michelle Obama right? A better question would be what do you do about the women who don't believe or are actually not being protected. The answer is that it is all of our responsibility to see that this happens. The NOI protect and defend their women -- wouldn't you agree @Delano, @Mel Hopkins, @Cynique or will you come up with some other silly reasons to dismiss this fact? Malcolm protected Betty, would any of you Sisters (and Del) dispute that? I was on twitter a yesterday and at the top of my feed was this subject. I now see this was what drove Del brought it up. Again this is how this works. Someone corporate entity generates some nonsense about Black men and women and Del people run around propagating it as if it has some validity. Yeah I noticed that Mel, whenever Del's arguments fall apart he resorts to name calling. @Cynique I see you never did research filter bubbles. Before I left Facebook, I made a habit of hoping around rather than letting Facebook determine what I read and I ASSURE your there are many who are ALL-IN when it comes to social media seemingly blind to and ignorant of the adverse impact of Social media Facebook in particular. Try reading Black Enterprise. I had to stop, because all they did was tout the virtues of social media then i realized they must be being paid by the likes of Twitter to lie to us. Maybe I'm wrong but I doubt it -- in any case you can't tell by their behavior. Cynique despite what you suggest with you anecdotal evidence of "everyone you know on social" our collective behavior speak volumes; for the 35 and under demographic most get their news from social media. Preach Brother! I'm sorry so many women feel they are unprotected. The truth is there are many Brothers who would lay down their lives in defense of their women -- I'm one of them. I'd be willing to bet @NubianFellow would too. Unfortunately this is not the the of story massive corporate media conglomerates are interested in telling and seemingly unless they validate it, it can't possibly be true huh?

Dang Mel I'm talking about BOTH Black people AND poor Black people. You know the US, far and away, locks up more of it's population than any other nation. As you also know this disproportionately impacts Black people. You should also know welfare reform hurt Black families disproportionately as well. Then ask yourself how all of the drugs got into the Black community. Finally, ask yourself why crack dealing were buried under the jail and why cocaine dealers grew irdh selling to bankers on Wall Street Yes Mel and Bill Clinton was president was Glass-Steagall was repealed. I was not on the sidelines ether. I was actually working on Wall Street -- not just reporting on it -- and don't believe for one second that you reporters got the truth out of these guys in real time. I saw first hand how a company like Bankers Trust went from basically a savings and loan outfit to a leader in "complex" derivatives trading. I also saw how mortgage back securities made Goldman rich and while causing many Americans to lose their homes. Then these Goldman guys join the government bending the laws to suit their needs. Ask yourself how many Goldman Sach employees served on the Obama Administration. The more I think about it, the more I'm coming to the conclusion that you can really vote in your self interested. You can only vote in the many that will hurt you the least.

How can someone who believes they know something, but is actually ignorant, know that they are indeed ignorant? In the age of filter bubble social media based news delivery, where people are feed a continuous stream of information that reinforces their word view, what will motivate them to seek new, different, or even correct information? Keep in mind, most people change party affiliations like they they change religions and gender -- which is to say rarely. Today people people are not just more ignorant, they are arrogantly ignorant -- despite much more access to information. @Mel Hopkins, while you and I might be interested in listening to others and considering opposing points of view, most people are not.

@Mel Hopkins Black folks and poor people are not mutually exclusive, so why would't large numbers of them share the same needs? We also know that white racists do not see class they just see race. Do you remember Mayor Bloomberg? Do you know how many times she changed parties? Do you remember the party this billionaire was in when he was the Major of NY City? Again, Billionaires are above party, they bend parties to do their will. I thought this was obvious. You're joking right? Black people's slavish devotion to Bill Clinton only resulted in hyper-incarceration, wealthfare reform, elimination of constraints on Wall street -- all of these disprotionationately and adversely impacted Black people. You think the majority of white women, poor white people, or anyone for that matter, who voted for Trump voted for their self interest? People REGULARLY vote against their own self interests. This is not ignorance, but a statement of fact something you can easily research on your own. Sure, if one is ignorant of how they are being served then they are unable to assess whether they've voted on their own self interests -- which is probably most of the American electorate.

@Delano OK. I was not aware that you were the official spokesperson for Black women. One would think you would be better able to speak from a Black male perspective. Questioning my respect for the women on this forum -- or even Black women is general is a silly desperation move on your part Del. I've already demonstrated an ability to listen to the women here and have modified my opinion as a result. The Viola Davis conversation is a case in point. You tried to use it against me, but you were too blinded by your own biased position to actually see that my position changed as a result of the conversation. I see Black men as being defenders of Black women and you describe that as me being at "fault." Your word choice is telling. Del do you engage with groups of Black men, in the real world, on a regular basis?

@Delano you believe collectively Black men have no respect for Black women and I disagree with that. Our experiences are obviously vastly different. Clearly, there is nothing I can say and no experience I can relate to convince you otherwise. Your mind is closed; bizzare statements like the one below illustrate this fact. I'm astonished that is your takeaway from our hundreds of years if enslavement. Perhaps we should just agree to disagree.

Sure having to witness your wife get raped by massa and bear his children must have been soul crushing for both husband and wife. But @Mel Hopkins are you going to suggest the conditions of enslavement are comparable to today? First Del asks for examples od bkaxk men protecting black wonen then immediately ignores or dismisses them without addressing them, and now you bring up a examples from our period of enslavement to explain why you dont "feel" protected in 2018. You will never "feel" protected. In a white racist majority society. Welcome to American sis. But this has nothing to do a lack of respect for you from black men. @Mel Hopkins do you also buy into @Delano's unsubstantiated belief that black men dont respect black women? As an aside: i pray for the souls of our brothers and sisters who endured the horrors of slavery, unable to protect themselves, or each other, from the evil heaped upon then for generations. I know they did best they could and we are a testament to their survival. There is nothing anyone reading has experienced which compares to their struggle. May their souls rest in peace.

@Delano how did you come to the conclusion that Nubuan Fellow and i are in the "clear minority?" Is there a study you can reference or some data you can present? Is all your information from white owned corporate media. As far as the men on this forum you are definitely in the minority. Black men largely respect black women -- much more than the media would have you believe. If your window into the black world is social media and tv you have a distorted picture. Subscribe to the Amsterdam news.

Thanks for trying to support my facebook page @NubianFellow. I stopped people from posting on my wall years ago because people just abused it. I'm against facebook on so many levels. You sharing your knowledge here us much more valuable anyway. How did you discover the website? Ill add your site to my list of black owned sites https://aalbc.com/top_black_websites/top_black_sites_list.php

@Mel Hopkins for sure poor people, and the middle class -- the majority of Americans. This includes the majority of black folks which is who im generally referring to when i write "us."