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Hands don't make babies... smarty pants.

LOL @Pioneer1, no need to be insulted man. I just think Zaji articulated what I think you believe -- but she is a professional writer and she, like Leonce, have obviously put a great deal of thought into the subject and have written a lot about it. Still you don't recognize the fact that there is no genetic basis for the racial categories you hold so dearly, which leads to faulty conclusions. Again I think Zaji articulated the spirit of what you believe. Am I right or wrong? I didn't know anything about the colorism people around the world faced when I was a kid. All I knew was that Puerto Ricans, like Black people, were every color under the sun and that we were all in the same ghetto boat -- and not white. I think we also need a national daily newspaper that people actually read. We will NEVER be able to define ourselves if we have no media -- which we don't. What little we do have is largely concerned with mimicking what white media do. Which is largely concerned with making as much money as possible -- which has never served Black people, or the Afro American, as a whole.

A rich source of melanin is beneficial to those who need to survive the effects of radiation. Some could ingest it because it's also found in fungi. Using melanin to determine "race" is a slippery slope. I rather not be someone's source of survival in an aftermath of a nuclear holocaust because I'm dark skin.

I dunno, @Del this assessment seems inaccurate. I admire @Cynique 's thought process and construction. So early on and now I would seek clarification or ask her to expand on a thought. Our exchange is psychoanalytic sans the resistance. And I appreciate that Cynique "sees" me. I appreciate our constructive exchanges. It's not a man vs woman thing. Anyone who finds constructive criticism challenging, usually struggles with attachment. Cynique has a gift of unmasking that thing we're attached to. Maybe that's why our conversations go unnoticed. I offer no resistance. I work to be fluid because I'd rather see if that thing is preventing me from achieving my goal of non-attachment.

Getting closer. So we concur on the social aspect however we still diverge on the genetic side. Yes it is true that lip thickness, hair texture, the amount of melanin in our skin, and all the rest is described in our genes. However the combination of these things is not enough to accurately and consistently describe the categories we use to describe each race. On some level this should be somewhat obvious as we can't look at someone and accurately describe the racial bucket they belong in. There is more genetic variability within a so-called race than there is between them. You may have more in common with Kim Kardashian genetically than you do with me. This is why the scientific community has abandoned the of notion of a genetic basis for race, and why I have too.

Troy Still you don't recognize the fact that there is no genetic basis for the racial categories you hold so dearly, which leads to faulty conclusions. Again I think Zaji articulated the spirit of what you believe. Am I right or wrong? I agree with Zaji that while the concept of race itself is a social construct that was invented by White people, we must also acknowledge that the melanin in our skins is a real tangible fact and can't be ignored or dismissed as simply a social construct. Melanin is in the genes. Our Black to tan skin....it's genetically based and not simply a social construct. Infact, so is the structure of our hair, the shape of our mouths and noses, and also our bone density.....these aren't simply social constructs but in our very genes. In other words........... Race is just a way of categorizing people Your race is simply a category that someone constructed to put you in to classify you. However the PHYSICAL FEATURES that are used to define those categories are NOT social but GENETIC. What little we do have is largely concerned with mimicking what white media do. Which is largely concerned with making as much money as possible -- which has never served Black people, or the Afro American, as a whole. I think you're absolutely right. Part of educating ourselves and re-defining ourselves is SETTING OUR OWN VALUES instead of adopting them from others. I would say we should teach our children that money isn't an "end" in and of itself but a means TO more valuable "ends" such as: Family Great health Food Proper education Land These things are more valuable than money.

Thank you. I will try my best to not be a stranger. 😀

Del I don't treat men the way I treat women. I know of course some women will have a problem with that and others would applaud it. But that is the way it is for me. I've never put my hand on a woman or spoken to one in a disrespectful manner (that I can recall). I tend to be more courteous to women than men and will do more for them like hold open doors or give up my seat on the train. I also don't treat my elders the same way I'd treat someone my junior. Perhaps it is my nature. Perhaps it was the way I was raised. Perhaps it is a combination of both.

Zaji I agree with you that Europeans came up with different racial classification for deceptive purposes. To keep their victims confused and divided. But I also agree with you that the differences between with heavily melanated skin and those who are melanine deficient are very REAL, and you can see that reality in just the behavior alone. To me....race is a reality based in biology and genetics, but I don't go with the ever-changing Caucasian definition of race and instead define and classify race using MY OWN terms that are in my opinion are closer to reality. For example, instead of saying: Black and White....I use terms like African and Caucasian. I also use terms like Afro-American, which encompasses ALL of the various shades of our people through out the Americas who are of African ancestry.....instead of using the term "Black" which really can only describe a few. Troy I grew up in segregated East Harlem where you where either Black or Puerto Rican. I did not know any white people my age until I got to Tech. Actually, some of the Puerto Ricans you grew up around WERE WHITE; they just weren't considered so by United States standards. But many WHITE PUERTO RICANS carry the same racist anti-Black attitude of their anglo counterparts. Haitians are also Latinos, and look how the lighter skinned Latinos treat them. you wrote is probably better articulates what @Pioneer1 has been trying to communicate regarding race. Pioneer does what Zaji wrote reflect what you believe. Now I'm insulted......lol. What do you mean "trying" to communicate????? I've been telling you for months that race my infact be a social construct but it's also rooted in genetic and biological fact because of skin color as well as other physical feature. NOW all of a sudden you "get it"?? Leonce I agree with you that we need to start teaching OURSELVES who we are instead of waiting on the "majority" White people to teach and tell us who we are. Maulana Karenga said that one of the greatest powers in the world is the ability to define reality and CAUSE OTHERS to accept it! That's exactly what happens when we refuse to educate ourselves and allow others to educate us, basically given them power. . I like how you use the term "AfroAmerican". If you read my posts, I usually refer to our people here in the Americas (North, South, Carribean) as AFRO-Americans instead of just "Black people". .....because I see us as not just a race, but an ETHNIC GROUP with a very unique culture. Cynique So black strategy should be - what? Like Zaji and Leonce said.....START DEFINING OURSELVES. Specifically through properly educating our children so that they will grow up with a different mindset instead of the one that the slave-master PUT in the minds of previous generations. All A major part of the problem with racial definitions is the fact that people are too often confusing RACE with ETHNICITY and even NATIONALITY. These are 3 distinct categories that often overlap eachother and adds to the confusion that already exists. I invite you all to review a thread I made the previous year where I broke down the differences between RACE, NATIONALITY, AND ETHNICITY: https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/4405-race-ethnicity-nationality101/

OK. "Life is a mystery."

I believe the first step is to put our self-education into our own hands. We are currently relying on public schools run by those who accept a culture that continues to discriminate against us, dehumanize us, and limit our opportunities. The history we have built in this nation is ours. No one should teach it to our young but us. There is an old saw that "Black history IS American history." I reject that. Afro-American history is something utterly different from the history experienced, inherited, or adopted by Americans who can call themselves white. It's that history -- and that difference - we have to codify and embrace.

I talk in the book about the whole "not really black" thing surrounding Obama in 2008 was actually a misguided cultural conversation. What folks meant was that Obama was not raised in the culture of the descendants of African slaves. He adopted that culture in young adulthood. However, we didn't have the language to discuss it because all we had on-hand was "black" and "white." And that's not enough. ShackledToRace.com

Perhaps it is related to your being comfortable critiquing and psychoanalysing the men. Which you don't do with Mel. You are a better writer than all of the men here. You treat men on the forum the way men treat women in the world. It's not that you don't take men seriously. Its just you feel that the writing reflects half baked ideas. Also sometime in 2017 the main participants all had a fractious and emotional interaction with another member. Your reaction to this post is more important than disagreement or its validity.

How do they define obfuscate?

I like this quote: "Life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans." And this one, too: "Life is a journey that is homeward bound." But this is my favorite: The 3 stages of Life: 1. Birth. 2. What the fuck is this? 3. Death. Finally, what intrigues me most when i contemplate life is this quote by Edgar Allen Poe; "All that we see or seem is just a dream within a dream" Life is a mystery. i wouldn't presume to understand it. It's all i can do to live it.

@zaji, the “yellow shirt” analogy was great. But we'd also have to consider that fact that the yellow shirt itself is subjective: to some people the yellow shirt might appear be to mustard or gold... or simply passing for yellow. The lunacy is perfectly normal give the American culture. How does one treat lunacy? @leonceg, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I've always felt that slave descendants in America created their own unique culture. For the diaspora to reach waaay back to our African origins and cobble together a generic culture gleaned from a continent made up of many different countries is almost a cry of desperation. Instead of clinging to the past, pride should be taken in how over 4 centuries we, as human beings, have scratched out our own niche in this country. ( The process of making kinky hair manageable by straightening it, for instance, is a part of our culture that should not be disparaged by those seeking to shame a custom which originated with blacks, - which made Madame C J Walker a millionaire, - and which spawned a traditional black beautician industry.) Our music, our cuisines, our colorful slang, our style and swag have created a black mystique envied and emulated by the dominant white culture. All of this transcends our pigment. I have also contended that the black experience differs from person-to-person, depending greatly on where you were born and raised. i, myself, am an 84-year-old mid-westerner who grew up a small town. I always attended integrated schools, including college, have never had a black teacher, and have never had a white person call me a "nigger to my face. And something i often marvel over is how during 1953 down in Montgomery, Alabama, when Rosa Parks finally balked at sitting in the back of the bus, I and a handful of other black coeds, resided in an integrated housing unit on the campus of the University of Illinois, a dormitory where white maids cleaned our rooms, and a white wait-staff served us our meals in the dining room. During this same period, when Emmit Till was lynched for allegedly ogling a white woman during his visit to Mississippi, one of my black dorm mates from Chicago was engaged to a white guy. Even my father as a farm boy growing up in Kansas during the early 1900s, attended an integrated one- room school house and swam in the same swimming hole with white kids during a time when lynching was common. I'm sure the kind of life i've led is similar to others who grew up away from the Jim Crow south. We blacks are as much different as we are alike. As in other cultures, a class division does exist within the African American community where the values and lifestyles of inner city blacks differ from those of upwardly mobile ones. ( Unfortunately, the caste system based on color persists across the board.) Considering their different circumstances and how varied blacks are in appearance, our diversity is stifled when branded by a white invention known as "race". This is where the familiar claim of blacks not being a monolith kicks in. It is also the point where i will fall back on my favorite axiom: "it is, what it is". To me this is the bottom line! The concept of race enables the discrimination which nullifies the idea of our being one entity made up of a single human species. So categorizing people by "race" does, indeed, benefit whites more than it does blacks because it allows the power structure to elevate to a superior status, the race designated as white. (i got the impression is that this is where Leone is coming from.) Also, I'm not convinced that race and culture are interchangeable. IMO, culture is a "way-of-life", not a "how-we-look". BTW, zaji, you are a very skilled writer. It's a pleasure to read your well-articulated views. Don't be a stranger.

I don't want to have anyone define me.

Very true. The longer i live, the more i realize that everyone is the center of their own universe and the creator of a comfort zone that is governed by their ego. This is a coping mechanism that enables insecure individuals to dodge the slings and arrows of reality. Those who have the courage to view themselves objectively and relate to the world at large are who command my admiration. i have always found the most engaging and endearing folks to be those who don't take themselves too seriously and are able to poke fun at their foibles. They invariably turn out to be the most intelligent also.