Pioneer1

Cynique In the future i will curb my true cynical self and not name-call. That's the best i can do. Sheeeeyit.....I don't think you can even do THAT much. Infact, I don't think you can help yourself.....lol. Troy For example, I'd say things to Pioneer in a way that I would not with you -- simply because he is another dude with amazingly thick skin Either that; or I don't always know when I'm actually being insulted....lol.

Delano Even if you thought homosexual activity was okay behavior to accuse a Christian and Muslim minister of......did you think accusing King of having affairs outside of his marriage wasn't an insult or malicious attack against the man's character? It has to be MORE than only about intent, but also CONTENT. Going back to Troy's point, if someone claims you are a rapist it doesn't matter if the person making that claim thinks that rape is OK.....it's commonly understood in public that rape is wrong and if they KNOW it's considered wrong in pubic and still make that claim about you then it would still be SLANDEROUS because it's ruining your PUBLIC reputation. Now come in Del...... You know I'm not the smartest man in the word, what does "split it with you" mean? Are you half way apologizing? Are you half way recanting your statement? Are you half way admitting an error? What? Talk PLAINLY with those of a more simple mind, lol.

Cynique Me, and my 2 daughters among many others. (1) puberty: the period during which adolescents reach sexual maturity and become capable of reproduction: (2) puberty: In humans, puberty occurs at the onset of adolescence, between the ages of about 11 and 14 in girls and 13 and 16 in boys. Like I said, COMPREHENSION isn't your strong point.....lol. That definition.....which looks to be based on Caucasian children and their average development...claims that puberty OCCURS AT THE ONSET...between the ages of 11-14 for girls. It didn't say it ENDED. It BEGINS or OCCURS between those ages; and from that age forward girls continue to develop until around 17-20 when they are usually physically mature. The subject under discussion was child predators. That's the context in which you made your statement. Above the age of puberty does not exempt teen-aged minors from being preyed on by these molesters. Correction- YOU, DEL, AND MEL are focused on child predators. That's not MY focus, nor was it the original subject of the thread. The original subject was Malik Shabazz's debate with Evie Rich and MY focus was my defense (and continual defense I don't give a damn what YOU THREE say about him ) of the HONORABLE Elijah Muhammad. Troy You obviously missed my statement that I do not think ANYONE should get married before 21 today. Although I think 18 or 19 is a good age to start having sex, for something as serious as MARRIAGE I'd push the age even higher than 21! I don't see why anyone who lives in THIS society where males and females have so much access to eachother would limit themselves and tie themselves down in their 20s. It makes no sense because you pretty much know that over 70% of the marriages are going to end in divorce (or murder) by the time they are 30 because they no longer love eachother and have found someone else. Dr. Frances Cress Welsing who was a noted AfroAmerican psychologist actually said she didn't think AfroAmericans should get married and have children UNTIL they were in their 30s! As far as what you and Mel are discussing......... She seems to be confusing LEGALITY with MORALITY. In otherwords, because the MODERN LEGISLATION comes up with some arbitrary age for sexual activity or adulthood.....that makes it right or wrong in her book. The LAW decides what's "right" or "wrong" for her. The problem with this type of thinking is if we use that standard...going back 200 years ago teaching a Black person how to read would be WRONG and she'd be arguing just as hard against it simply because the LAW says it is wrong. This is why I keep saying AfroAmericans need our own moral and ethical code that we can all agree on and RARELY CHANGES in order to provide stability and avoid arguments like this. In most other cultures....whether we agreee with it or not...atleast both the men and women are on the same page and agree when it's time for marriage and there is very little arguing and accusations among them. 　 　 　 Chev But I think that as a woman, especially due to being in a position where a man is 'sweet talking' and trying to take it to that next levely, we woman see from another point-of-view'. I think it may be, as the saying goes, 'men are from mars and women are from venus'. As a woman, I know that a lot of girls are tricked into going to the next level and have been railroaded, but men perhaps here these stories and still think and believe the man's view in that the girl consented. Come on now Chev. Are we supposed to believe that women DO NOT like sex or want it? In most of my experiences and observations if a woman LET'S a man "sweet talk" her into having sex, it's because she wanted him in the first place and ALLOWED him into her heart. Perhaps what you're calling a woman being tricked is REALLY a woman lowering her defenses for a man she actually finds attractive enough to sleep with. I know too, that many Black women have been hurt and abandoned. And, I believe for this reason, many of them have turned to other ways to gain that acknowledgement that they so deserve. This government has done so much damage to us. They have encouraged our gender conflicts because it gives them power over us Exactly! And that's the point I've been trying to make over and over again. 　 Mel where’s the lie? Most girls are "ABOVE" puberty by 12...in many cases 10-years-old. It is only force if an adult man is having sex with a girl who is "ABOVE" puberty. Well THAT'S one of them right there....lol. Most girls are NOT above puberty at 12 and definately not at 10. Not HUMAN girls....maybe cats, horses, or zebras.....but not human females. Infact, in most places around the world girls don't even START puberty until aroun 13. But the FIRST lie you told was: "You know, like the 10, 11,12, 13 year old girls who’ve reached puberty and still play with toys, enjoy learning and playing sports , that Pioneer seems to think are fair game. " Again, can you find any quotes of me claiming that girls at this age are "fair game" or available for ANY sort of sexual contact?????? I don't recall ever making a statement like that or even coming close.

It doesn't matter when puberty "begins". ABOVE puberty means what I just said....ABOVE/BEYOND/AFTER the process of puberty! Who in the hell have YOU met who finished puberty at 12, 13, or even 14?????? You're not ABOVE puberty in those ages, you're IN puberty. See, you really need to bring an end to your campaign of lying and attempts at mischaracterization.

You quoted me exactly only AFTER lying on me. When demanded proof of your claims you quoted my words but then CLAIMED that they actually meant something else other than what I said they did. You CLAIMED that I "implied" puberty itself makes one ready for sex. I actually said as long as they are ABOVE puberty it may or may not be ok but I don't give a damn. Even when forced to quote me you tried to RE-interpret what I said.

Cynique Homosexuality has even been noted in animals. i read somewhere. But i can't cite the source so anyone can feel free to challenge this. Lol, citing YOUR sources is easy. Let me guess.... You got that information from: some White person Claiming that something occurs in the animal kingdom doesn't exempt it from having man-made origins nor human influence on it's prevelance. Cancer and physical defects also occur in the animal kingdom but they CLEARLY occur with much more prevelance under toxic conditions caused by humans such as polluted water, air, and soil.

The only "damage" that needs to be controlled is the damage that has been done to your already compromised brain power. And trying to control IT from further damage is above my pay grade. You lied on me.....plain and simple. Just like Del and Mel have done in this thread although perhaps for different reasons. You know you can't win an argument with me based on the FACTS of what I wrote so you had to make up outrageous and inflammatory statements and try and PIN them on me. When I expose the fact that those statements didn't come from me and challenge you to prove otherwise, you THEN resort to Woman-splaining and trying to tell me what I'm "implying" or RE-interpreting what I clearly said to give it another meaning to justify your argument. All done in an attempt to demonize me and my position and make yourself look morally superior. My words are my words and they stand as they are, they need no extra interpretation or intervention from you.

Del Again, thank you for clarifying that I DID NOT say what you initially accused me of saying.

Troy You know there are FAR more gay white men in the united states than there are gay Black men. If there is a conspiracy, then it appears to be backfiring, dont you think? Yes there are far more gay White men in the United States and I also believe that the PERCENTAGE of homosexuality among them is higher also. However, homosexuality among them has ALWAYS been higher and is fairly common. Going back centuries if not millenia if you look at how common homosexual relationships were in ancient Rome and Greece. Homosexuality is nothing new or "uncommon" in Caucasian society. It just alternates from persecution to acceptance at different moments in history. However what IS new and uncommon is the increasing amount of homosexuality as well as it's acceptance being seen in African societies not only in the United States but in various communities around the globe! Although homosexuality may have existed among some Africans in the past, it is miniscule compared to the amount that you see among Black people today and it DEFINATELY wasn't accepted as much as it is today which means some OUTSIDE FORCE must be influencing this.

Cynique THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID. How does this differ from what i said you implied. Well for one thing, the WORDS are different. I said: "As long as they were above puberty and he didn't physically force himself on them" YOU said: "YOU are who brought up the subject of puberty being what transforms a female into a sex object." These are two TOTALLY different positions about when a female is ready for sex. -One is at the onset of puberty....which was YOUR accusatory statement. -The other is above or after the processes of puberty....which is my ACTUAL statement. Mel This should allow them to see how and why feminism has gain strength among women in general but especially black women. We have to demand equal protection under the law for all aspects or our lives. Women must protect ourselves financially, spiritually, economically, politically, and physically. I already KNOW atleast some of the reasons why feminism has gained strength among many Black women. Number one, it's driven by the anger and hatred many AfroAmerican women have towards AfroAmerican men AS WELL as the ignorance many AfroAmerican women have about their own sexuality and African sexuality in general. Further, they see aligning themselves with Caucasian feminists as an opportunity to gain economic and political influence and power without realizing the tremendous toll it will take not only on them but the lives of future generations who will end up psychologically damaged and morally confused from their unwise alliances. You know, like the 10, 11,12, 13 year old girls who’ve reached puberty and still play with toys, enjoy learning and playing sports , that Pioneer seems to think are fair game. This is an outright lie! No basis of truth to this whatsoever. I'm not suprised at Cynique making up statements and pinning them on me because she get's desperate from time to time and can't help herself. I was but am NO LONGER suprised that Del would make up false statements....given his behavior these past few days. But as good at you are at arguing established points and using a person's actual words against them during disagreement, I must admit I'm suprised you felt a need to MAKE UP statements and accuse me of them. I challenge you to find any quote of me saying this.

Troy Pioneer1 just forget it. Del can't provide a source to substantiate MLK's gay affairs and apparently won't say he made a mistake, which is indeed surprising. Suprising and indeed a bit sad. I'm thinking this is a passive aggressive form of retaliation for my support of Elijah Muhammad , however I'm not certain. Del Please can either of you quote me, where i slandered either Martin or Malcolm. Martin was a Christian Minister. Malik was a Muslim Minister. You accused both of adultery and homosexuality. Both men belonged to religious organizations in which adultery and homosexuality are STRONGLY condemned and are seen as not only a sin but in many cases CRIMINAL acts. Do you realize that in some Muslim societies you can be KILLED for engaging in homosexual or adulterous activities? It doesn't matter how YOU feel about homosexuality and whether it's slanderous to YOU or not. What matters is how THEY and their SUPPORTERS feel about homosexuality and adultery, and the majority see them as abominable acts and to accuse someone of these acts of abomination is SLANDEROUS. Do you now understand the gravity of what you imply about these men? 　 You may have not noticed but in the question I didn't mention any extramarital activities You said: You don't considered "extramarital affairs" a form of extramarital activity? This statement allows me to clear up my "defending " Pioneer. When you make a valid (which is different than true) I will agree even if my perspective is different. Two things you may want to consider. An opinion need not be factual, even if the subject has some known facts. Second a question unless legal or rhetorical is an inquiry. I have two things also: 1. If you were asking a question, why didn't you put a question mark at the end of it instead of a period? 2. My question remains, WILL YOU agree with me that it is NOT a fact that Mr. King or Mr. Shabazz had affairs with men and women?

Del Really Troy Pioneer and Nubian Do you think you're smarter than the average women. No I think both sexes have the same level of intelligence but they express it in different ways. On average women tend to be better at MULTI-TASKING or doing many different things at the same time, while men tend to be better at FOCUSING on a particular task before moving on to another. I've noticed this for years. I've even had to tell female supervisors and managers this in order for them to make the proper decisions about employee and their levels of productivity. As far as blood donations???????? I don't have the best memory of blood donation banks. As a kid growing up I saw blood donation banks as places drug addicts and winos used to hang around donating their blood to to get some extra money to support their habits. Troy What happened? Cynique yanked his chain and pulled him back "in line" is what probaby happened, lol. Or perhaps he's trying to "get next" to one of the sistaz on here....lol. I wonder exactly WHO does he have his eye on???? I do agree with your observation that women on average tend to be more emotionally intelligent and empathetic than men. Sometimes this is a good thing, and some times it can get in the way of proper decision making.

Del There are no facts just perspectives. Well if there are no facts then would you agree with me that it is NOT a fact that King or Shabazz had affairs and slept with men?

Because unlike you, neither me nor Mr. Fuller make blanket statements about all people....White or Black. Mr. Fuller didn't say all White people are plotting to confuse people of color, just a key group called the White Supremacists. And no the White Supremacists are NOT confused and still trying to sort things out when it comes to human sexuality....they already know about it. They're trying to confuse YOU. They may APPEAR to disagree with eachother but that's just a front. Just like the leadership of the Democrat and Republican party PRETEND that they are arguing and not getting along.....just a front and diguise. They are really working together.

Thank you for admitting that you lied on me and are now attempting to correct this accusation. See how easy that was? Case closed.

Lol....good ole Mr. Reliable.

Cynique That's is what you wrote. So, in your opinion, once puberty kicks in, a female is fair game for any man seeking sex, no matter what her age is. Instead of GIVING me my opinion, why don't you just accept it as it is written? Now I know COMPREHENSION isn't your strongest selling point, but try to stay with me here.....lol. You said: And I'm asking again, IF I said that then PLEASE provide a quote of me saying it! Again, last time I checked the only thing I said that came remotely close to this is when I said as long as the females are ABOVE puberty then.....(and it's still not necessarily OK if you're already married to someone)....I don't give a damn. Those affairs are between them and his wife, not us. Now do you have a quote of what you accuse me of or not? I don't need your interpretation or discernment.....I needs a QUOTE.

The problem is you are presenting declarations IN the questions you're asking. You've already declared.....as if it were established truth.....that King was having affairs with men and then proceeded from there to question what affect it had on his legacy. But it hasn't even been proven NOR has any evidence been presented by you or anyone else that King indeed WAS having sexual relations with me. You shouldn't ask questions based on false pretenses.

Delano You need to either provide proof of your allegations against these men or atleast evidence or sources for the alleged homosexual affairs you're accusing Martin King of or you should just RECANT your statement. Since you're so big on honor, I think that would be the honorable thing to do at this point. I've always seen you as a pretty reasonable dude and still do somewhat, despite our current static.... But putting garbage like this out here with no evidence.......what's your agenda man? As far as I know you're the first person EVER to even suggest that MLK had affairs with other men!!! I can't find that shit ANYWHERE else, except for YOU saying it.

Then they have NOT determined....as you claimed....that sexuality is wired at birth, they are still in disagreement with eachother about it and in your words "still trying to sort it out".

Oh? Well if I said that then PLEASE provide a quote from me actually saying this. Last time I checked the only thing I said that came remotely close to this is when I said as long as the females are ABOVE puberty then.... (not that it's OK even then if you're already married to someone because I don't advocate adultery).......I don't give a damn. Those affairs would be between them and his wife, not us. I won't tolerate pedophilia in society but I WILL tolerate adultery although I don't like it because although it's immoral (in my opinion) it's not AS immoral and harmful. Speaking of which...... Why is it all about "male entitlement"? Incase you've been living under a ROCK (where squirmish creatures like you often dwell....lol) for the past 20 years, you'll notice that the vast majority of cases involving adults taking advantage of those too young for them have actually been WOMEN. Female teachers who can't seem to help themselves and end up sleeping with the boys they're suppose to be teaching! Society started off feeling sorry for these maniacs but it's gotten so bad now and so many teachers are sleeping with these boys that judges are being FORCED by society to give these women prison time.

Chev ??????? Not sure where all this talk of "12" and "13" year old girls is coming from........ What I've heard for years was that Elijah slept with his "young secretaries" and some of them were teenagers but I haven't heard any specific ages. Since this discussion I've actually tried to look up the ages of these girls/young ladies he allegedly had affairs with and I couldn't find any specific ages .

Cynique They can't even sort out their own sexuality. They are the ones who have determined that sexual orientation is present at birth Well that sounds like a major contradiction in your observations. Whether their conclusion actually has valitity or not....how can someone who has DETERMINED something be confused about it an unable to "sort it out"????? Chev For decades Neely Fuller Jr. has been predicting how they were trying to promote homosexuality and gender neutrality among AfroAmericans to reduce the population and create confusion and fighting among the men and women over gender roles. ...even back in the 60s he was saying this. Check out this 4 minute clip of Neely Fuller breaking down precisely how they are trying to destroy the Black community through sexual confusion: https://youtu.be/a3qUE8GGDvk This man was the late great Dr. Frances Cress Welsing's (The Isis Papers) mentor and he's still coherent and sharp as a razor at 90 years old giving interviews. You should really check out his work and his lectures.

Troy As far as what you just wrote. I gather it all means you have no proof to justify your secalious assertion that MLK has a homosexual affair Lol.....I was about the post the very same thing. When I glanced at the paragraph and all that was written I came close to assuming he MIGHT have some references in there. I just KNEW he wouldn't waste half of a damn page whining about how he's being mistreated and allegedly held to a different standard.

More LIES and garbage. Just like you've lied on Martin Luther King and couldn't back it up when challenged to do so. Lied on Malik Shabazz and couldn't back it up when challenged. I challenge you to back up the lie you just told on me. My position isn't the one that needs to change because I'm not the one constantly churning out lies in order to slander and defame.