Pioneer1

Chev 　 Yes, he did, but to imply that the New Testament does NOT cover this is issue of Homosexuality would be wrong. Jesus was accused wrongly for being around people that needed his help. He was judged wrongfully for being around drunks and etc The difference is that the people Jesus was hanging around needed his help and they KNEW they needed his help. Most homosexuals today do not think they need help nor do they think there is anything wrong with them. They think their behavior is ok and anyone or anything (like the Bible) who condemns it is wrong. 　 This is a confusing statement. Are you saying that the Bible is wrong about the 'unforgivable sins'? I have no idea. This issue doesn't have anything to do with me going along with it or trying to gain favor. It is NOT something that should be judged my me!??? I have no interest in judging someone for this issue. I know, and this is one of the reasons I'm taking issue with what you and Gibran have said about homosexuality and your seemingly acceptance of homosexuals. You said: "When it comes to 'SEXUAL PREFERENCES', I have no problem with choices that adults make. I was literally kicked out of my home shortly after my college years because of my support of my male friends that were homosexuals." The Bible doesn't tell you to SUPPORT homosexuals but to PUNISH them. I'm making it clear that I'm not saying this....but the Bible DOES. But since WHITE SOCIETY no longer condemns it and makes it almost illegal to speak against it....all of a sudden after centuries and centuries of condeming it NOW all of a sudden AfroAmericans no longer want to "judge" or condemn homosexuality. My point is, this new found "acceptance" of homosexuality among so many AfroAmericans have nothing to do with being nice or non-judgemental. Nor is it about the Bible and what many AfroAmericans believe to be "God's word"; because if they REALLY believed it was God's word there would be no debate or acceptance about homosexuality since it has been made clear. .....it's really about the power and authority of Caucasians and their ability to control and manipulate AfroAmerican morality and mentality. They pick and choose which parts of the Bible they accept and reject based on what White society accepts or rejects.

Gibran If not, then these same people are let go to terrorize you. When it comes to getting out of the joint, some convicts are RELEASED. Some are UNLEASHED! The ones that are unleashed are like rabid, mad dogs who have been chained to a stake, and once unleashed---they do damage. In fact, that is their intention. This in merely speculation on my part, but yeah, I know that it is possible I think this is more than mere speculation because I've noticed the same thing. I've noticed that they have let many people out of prision and into the 'hood who shouldn't have been. Many of them are clearly anti-social, mentally disturbed, and quite violent.....but they are released or as you say UNLEASED into society anyway. Which means decent peaceful socially oriented AfroAmerican men...in the name of defending themselves or loved ones are often FORCED to seriously injure or even kill these fools and risk ending up in prison themselves simply trying to solve a problem that the state made! So they'll kill 2 or 3 birds with one stone. What you said about an "ultimate moment for rehab" is profound. Despite all the brothers (and sisters) I know who have done serious bids you are the first one to drop that science. I hadn't heard of that concept of a "window" for rehabilitation before. You haven't been on this site long enough but from time to time I've mentioned that it is my believe that this society in the United States today was not designed by or for the benefit of AfroAmerican men. The laws, the food, the marriage customs, the expected behavior, ect.....all designed for the benefit of OTHER than AfroAmerican men; which is why so many AfroAmerican men keep finding themselves in trouble with the law, at work, with unemployment, with relationships, and even with eachother. But again, someone has to take the initiative to "reverse the hypnosis" as Lauryn Hill would say.

Chev If you believe in Jesus, according to the Bible Jesus didn't come to eliminate or replace the law but to FULLFILL it. Now you may have YOUR list of unforgivable sins but the Mosaic Laws....many of which can be found in Leviticus.....are crystal clear on homosexuality and homosexuals themselves as well as how they should be punished. I don't ascribe to organized religion because my religion is TRUTH. So as far as I'm concerned homosexuality is a "normal abnormality" that doesn't deserve any type of punishment. But if I felt that a law was divinely issued, there would be no compromising or changing. I would hold fast to it and not try to hide it or ignore it simply to get along with or gain favor with the greater society like I see happening today with many religious people and their position on homosexuals.

Brother if you look at the name IS-RA-EL.......according to the Bible it means "He who fights God". According to scripture it was given to a man named Jacob after wrestling with a mysterious man one night. The first question is, if a person is attempting to fight or struggle with God....from which source is this opposition coming from if not Satan? The second question is, why would we as a people want to claim the identity of being descendants of those who fight against or rebel against the El/Elohim or "God"? It would seem to me that we would try to get as far away from THAT identity as possible and try to side with those who are on the SIDE of God and the other righteous!

Since the 60's you've had and still have AfroAmerican: MAYORS.... CONGRESSMEN/WOMEN....... POLICE OFFICERS...... DEPUTIES...... POLICE CHIEFS.... LAWYERS..... JUDGES.... PRISON GUARDS.... PRISON OFFICIALS.... My question is what are THESE AfroAmericans IN POWER doing to change to change those hellish conditions? I don't expect them to reform every single aspect of the entire system, but what or who is stopping them from organizing to clean up the jails, prisons, and other correctional instutions within THEIR sphere of influence? I've said time and time again, even on this very website...... This is a society of ORDER. Not necessarily of justice and morals....but of stucture and order. Intelligent people of any race aren't going to put up with the resulting savagery and chaos that would soon result from having no more police or jails. They will establish some system to maintain order and safety for themselves and their families. Just like I say if AfroAmericans understand the injustices and harm that comes from Caucasian police officers policing the Black community; if we as AfroAmericans don't like the prison industrial complex then we need to work on CHANGING it or establishing one of our own where we can send AfroAmerican criminals to be either punished and/or corrected instead of treated like chattle and slaves. Again, I know it's not very easy or very simple to do all of that.....my question is where is the EFFORT and DESIRE to profoundly change or replace the system from our Black officials who have the power to do so?

Where do homosexuals fit into the "Black Struggle"? Well, it's quite simple.....if they are BLACK homosexuals then they are struggling along with the other Blacks who're struggling. Gibran and Chevdove Gibran said: Chevdove said: Both of you seem to be pretty tolerant if not accepting of homosexuality. But since you make the claim that we as a people are descendants of Abraham and the Israelites, how does your acceptance or tolerance of homosexuality agree with the Mosaic Law's CLEAR stance of not only condemning homosexuality and homosexuals but actually call for their physical punishment? Infact, the Mosaic Laws not only condemn homosexuality but even condemns men wearing women's clothing! Have those rules against homosexuality now been abrogated?

Why should someone have to "look up" something they already are? If you know YOURSELF then you already know the definition.

Lol....... Resist the devil and SHE will flee from you.

I didn't say one was more stylistic or artistic than the other. -and YOU know what I'm saying so don't attempt to twist my words for those viewing just so you can build another "straw man" to argue against. I said heterosexual Black men are JUST AS stylish, creative, and artistic as homosexuals and unlike most Caucasian males -we have no problems expressing this.

Silliness Personified My sarcastic remark was in keeping with your yearning to return to the "primitive". You and your pompous self are who deemed my statement as demeaning because you only focus on the urbanized African, as if the other environments which still exist are an embarrassment to you. You want to pick and choose what there is to hold in high esteem about Africa and chastise anoney who dares to view Africa in its totality. just go somewhere and beat a drum - or your meat if a drum isn't available. I didn't say I had a "yearning" to be primitive but...... PRIMitive not only means FIRST but it also means PRIME or ideal So if finding the PRIME and IDEAL way of life means going PRIM-itive, then perhaps that's the way AfroAmericans should go; since this LATER (and quite mutated) Western way isn't working out too well for most of them.

Troy I know Raleigh, NC pretty well and have have going there all of my life. I haven't spent too much time in the Raleigh Durham area. I've been through there and it looked pretty nice from what I've seen but a little on the small side. Back when I was really interested in living Down South during the 80s and 90s I was looking at more of the bigger cities like Charlotte, Houston and Atlanta because I thought they had more to offer in terms of women and employment. Gibran Man....... You seem to be one of those rare individuals who can say a LOT to me yet leave me speechless with nothing to say in return but rather THINK......and think deeply....about what you said, lol.

We are talking about ARTISTIC EXPRESSION and CREATIVITY! .....not "finger snapping" and flaymboyant hyper-feminine behavior. And again, everyone who has lived with or spent any considerable amount of time around Black people whether here in the United States, in South America, or Africa can attest to the fact that Black men (both gay and straight) are among the BEST DRESSERS and most STYLISTIC men in society. My brother was (is?) a player's player and had 2 closets full of shoes and could outdress ANY homosexual. I remember when straight Black men even used to get their nails "done" while getting their shoes shined in the barber shop. I'm talking about pimps who had flocks of women getting their nails glossed...lol. Straight Black men simply DO NOT HAVE the problems of expressing their artistic side and creativity that White men have because most don't have. Gay negroes ain't got shit on a straight brother who knows how to "get down"......lol.

Cynque Well if you believe this, then why do you continue to harp on the idea that in America whites are trying to impose their puritanical values on black folks? It's obvious your complaints are without substance, especially since one reason for the negative black situation is this country can be traced, in part, to blacks acting like they're still living in the jungle. Something you promote. Your deluded and misinformed comment about Black people "living in the jungle".....besides being offensive....exemplifies the ignorance most AfroAmericans have about ancient and modern African society and social life. Perhaps this is one of the reasons you SEEM to love Caucasian society and Caucasian morality so much and want to hold on to it at all costs even if it's clearly failing most AfroAmericans. Because you believe the alternative is not just inferior but animalistic and "jungle" like.

They are talking about the investor economy, not the working family economy. ((applause)) When people say the system is failing, I correct them and inform them that "the system" that has them working 2 and 3 jobs and living check to check isn't failing but actually working EXACTLY as it was designed to. Not to make you wealthy.... And not to force you into miserable poverty..... But to keep you in that "sweet spot" where you're busting your ass being extemely productive while the only compensation you get for it is just enough funds to keep you alive and satisfied so that you will continue to work. They've learned from the past that if they work people too hard the labor will either kill them or force them to revolt. So they work them to right up to the limit and then through in a few toys and trinkets to keep them happy from time to time.

Cynique A woman's vagina is, indeed, a negotiating tool in many scenarios. It's when she chooses not to use it as one that she is in jeopardy in other scenarios Yes, it IS a negotiating tool at times; and a very vauable one. I don't blame women one bit for using it when they have the need and opportunity to do so. But that's not what you said earlier. You said it was a very powerful WEAPON as if it can rival what's in a man's arsenal. A woman's BEST and most EFFECTIVE weapon isn't what's between her legs but what's between her EARS. There's a difference between valuables and weapons and they serve two entirely different functions. If a criminal comes to rob your house you aren't going to fend him off by throwing gold coins at him....lol.

We should be specific.... When people...especially AfroAmericans....talk about the power and unity that the LBGT community has, they often forget WHO is funding it and WHO is leading it. It's not funded or led by AfroAmerican or Latino homosexuals and bisexuals, but by CAUCASIAN homosexuals and bisexuals. Caucasians....gay or straight....tend to be wealthier and more organized than other groups and THEY are the ones pushing the movement. LGBT people of color are just going along for the ride. Cynique Gays have acquired power because brilliance and artistic creativity so often go hand-in-hand with homosexuality and these traits are assets. Only in Caucasian society. In African society (meaning Black people world wide) currently and historically homosexuals are no more creative or artistic than heterosexuals. Straight Black men are just as good at color coordinating their clothes, dressing nice, wearing lots of cologne, making good music, and dancing....things that White men have traditionally called "gay" or "womanly"....as homosexual Black men are. The ONLY race where you find male homosexuals being more artistic and stylish is among Caucasians.

Yeah, back when I first started living in Charlotte I used to STAY up in the Chicken Box eating rice and gravy and smothered pork chops.....lol. But aside from the Chicken Box, it was Charlotte where I was first introduced to BO JANGLE! At first I was offended by the very name, but after tasting some of that chicken you coudn't keep me away, lol. But you're right about the gentrification and rebuilding of Charlotte. I was down there about 10 years ago and they had a TON of Mexicans who were moving in and taking over the apartment complexes all through out the North and East sides of the city. They also built a nice elevated train system that I believe ran through the Southside. Overall I still think it's a nice city, much "nicer" than Atlanta in a friendly sort of way. Charlotte still has much of it's southern charm while Atlanta has lost most of it.

Everytime I read or hear the words North Tryon it reminds me of the time I spent living in Charlotte and the places I used to go during my relatively brief time there. ...how they called downtown "uptown". And I really miss eating at a soul food restaurant called The Chicken Box that was on Tryon (I think South Tryon) street. I also used to chill at the UNC on South Tryon from time to time.

Chev I didn't doubt the authenticity of your story, again....it's history so it can be argued over for decades as to the truth of it. But I'm not going to argue or doubt it. But what IS clear about this story is that it does not provide an example of what you claimed. I don't want to see the waters get muddy or murky so I'm going to ask my questions again: Can you provide for me CLEAR HISTORIC examples of how Black men not controlling their sexual appitite led to the downfall of their kingdoms and the enslavement of their people. OR can you provide CLEAR and HISTORIC examples of how Black men mistreating Black women led to their kingdoms being thrown down and their people enslaved? Troy If you think the MODERN traditions and family structures are superior to what you suggest are outdated traditions dug up from thousands of years ago....then why aren't they working for MOST Black people today where the majority of relationships end in seperation or divorce? ......and that's only if they ever get off the ground in the first place because MOST Black couples today don't even bother getting married. Hell, if the past is better than the present WHY NOT go back to it? 　 　 Cynique When it comes to "forming and maintaining families and long term relationships", has it occurred to Pioneer that white people are who have a high divorce rate and dysfunctional families and an increase in homosexuality, and that nobody in this country is strictly adhering to these so-call white values he so adamantly rejects. Moreover, the breakdown of the black family stems not from white values but from those black people who lead a loose, multiple-partner lifestyle that Pioneer insists comes natural to them. His assessment of a situation he has concocted in his head proposes out-dated solutions that are neither viable nor grounded in reality. Most reject White/Western values only after ATTEMPTING to try them and realizing that they don't work. So they pretty much give up on ALL forms of discipline and morality instead of mapping out a code and system of their own that they can live by effectively. It's like a person with a mechanical aptitude who tries to be a lawyer and since he didn't graduate law school he decides to drop out and be a bum instead of getting a trade to use his natural skills more wisely.

I might.......but only if you PROMISE not to follow me there.

Troy You can't say "people don't care"....obviously I care and many other AfroAmericans that I know care. We may or may not be in the majority, but we are out there. And to answer your question of what should we do....... We should....degree by degree.....build OUR OWN medical facilities and grow OUR OWN foods and produce OUR OWN medicine and educate OUR OWN children instead of letting people who obvioulsy don't have our best interests in mind and have admitted to seeking a reduction in the Earth's population do these things for us. Xeon Ha! I’m still trying to bend my mind around your suggestion that there could possibly be "factors to increase black homosexuality". I’ve never heard of such thinking (black people possibly being targeted for homosexual population increases). Perhaps you could articulate what you think these factors could be if it were to happen…. It's hard to believe something you DON'T WANT to believe. But if you've never heard of the conspiracy to increase homosexuality in the AfroAmerican community you should study the lectures and interviews of Neely Fuller Jr, Tariq Nasheed, and Dr. Wesely Muhammad for starters. If homosexuality is NOT a choice.....then it's genetic. And genes can be altered, manipulated, and/or influences to produced a desired effect.

That cute little sista from McDonalds who whooped that Caucasian man's ass after he reached over and grabbed her CERTAINLY wasn't waiting on anyone to defend her.....lol. 　 　 Troy This is true too, but I don't think anyone here ever congested you can act crazy then expect your man to jeopardize his life to support crazy. Mel did. She said she thought Black men should offer UNCONDITIONAL support and protection. Gibran I hear what you're saying about the vengance and what we might call "going all out" on somebody. But you know most people.....even most men....just don't think that way. They aren't prepared to carry a grudge that long, especially in THIS society. It's my understanding that in the Middle East and in places like Italy men are raised to carry grudges to protect the "family honor" so they feel obligated to "get even" with someone who's wronged them or their family even if it takes them a lifetime. 　 Cynique Women have a very effective weapon in the battle of the sexes and it's nestled between their thighs. It levels the playing field and can make men happy losers. The very act of rape and other forms of sexual assault againt women destroys this foolish theory about a woman's vagina being some sort of weapon or negotiating tool. I don't really think Mel and Chevdove were lamenting the situation, but were instead dramatizing and empathizing with women who are not as strong and independent as they are. Then they should let THESE womens speak for themselves instead of being their spokesperson because all of this "standing up for others" leads to too much unnecessary conflict in the AfroAmerican community. How many discussion panels have you seen where intelligent, clean, educated AfroAmerican men and women are arguing with eachother over how "no good" Black men are or how "gold digging and lazy" Black women are when NO ONE on that panel fit that profile. They're arguing with eachother as representatives of people who don't deserve representation. Decent intelligent Black men and women should work together in peace and stop blaming EACHOTHER for the behavior of the fools of our community.

If you notice, most or atleast a disproportionate percentage of people in America who live to be over 100 years of age are AfroAmericans. Despite all this crap about "how much longer Americans are living" today, my Father who grew up in the Deep South used to tell me about how healthier and stronger AfroAmericans were in the past and how much longer they lived eating real wholesome food. People can talk about all of these so-called medical breakthroughs of modern society, but the fact is in just the past 20 or 30 years only I've witnessed the quality of life for American society in general decline. There are far more children with obesity, asthma, and mental health problems today than their was when I was a kid. My personal observations and what I've witness just verifies more and more the things that my Father and other older AfroAmericans told me.

Xeon Oh really? So, you believe most of the dysfunction found in American Negro culture is a direct result of Negroes attempting to emulate white people and white culture? Is what you really believe? Yes.....yes.....and yes again, Lol. Xeon, Troy, Del Since we have 3 other "presumably" AfroAmerican men in this thread besides myself, I have an idea...... Instead of JUST contending my opinions and what I believe are the problems with gender and sexual relations in the AfroAmerican community.....why don't YOU state what YOU gentlemen think the problems are and what's preventing the majority of our people from forming and having maintaining families and long term relationships between the men and women. Don't be like those negroes who used to stand around in the crowd jeering and heckling in disagreement with Malik Shabaaz or Marcus Garvey while they were preaching to their people and offering what they thought were the solutions. Just questioning and challenging everything these men said INSTEAD OF offering their own opinions and solutions. Clearly there are problems that need to be solved, so if I'm wrong or off base TELL ME WHAT the problems and solutions are.

Nevertheless, keloid scarring is still a well known part of African tradition. Infact, I think the Black Fraternity Kappas brand their member with a "K" that keloids as part of an ancient African tradition.