Pioneer1

Troy Ofcourse they see Black masculinity as the problem because it competes with White masculinity which is the default Patriarchal system this society operates on and causes confusion in their minds over who they should be loyal to and put their trust in. Which is why so many AfroAmerican women love and defend morally weak AfroAmerican men and gay AfroAmerican men; because neither pose a serious threat to the system of White dominance and they know their place and role as Black antagonists in a White system kind of like the fool or court jester knows his place in the King's palace. And suggesting to Black women how to dress and how to present themselves is a sign of Black masculinity.

I wish you guys would stand up and defend Black men with atleast HALF the zeal with which you defend these White racists. Although his accusations were more serious, I didn't hear anyone making these kind of excuses when it came to Cosby's case.

Troy I'm certain he does not feel as though I'm attacking him. I suspect that he would be more likely to laugh at the dig rather than feel "attacked." WRONG! I'm actually on my way to Florida right now to find you to handle some bid'ness. ....I have a picture of you and list of gay bars and night clubs to start with. "Have any of you seen THIS man: ....hanging around here lately looking like he doesn't have anything else to do BUT hang around here?"

Ofcourse it wasn't him..lol. He admitted it and then denied it THEN admitted to putting on black-face to do a Michael Jackson impression later on. Are you telling me that a man with the intellect to become a DOCTOR and GOVERNOR somehow couldn't remember what he did back in his early adulthood??? That's almost as silly as telling me that someone who had the intellectual capabilities to graduate college and enter Medical school was somehow too stupid to realize how racist and insensitive his behavior was....lol. This didn't happen back in the 40s or 50s....it happened in the 80's!!!! Well after the Civil Rights movement and in the age of Jesse Jackson where the KKK and black-face minstrel shows were well known by nearly everyone to be racist and offensive. Yeah....he was sorry alright....sorry he got caught.

If he was TRULY remorseful....why didn't he apologize UNTIL he got caught?

Chev Perhaps "not finding agreement" isn't the best term to use, but not seeing eye to eye would be a better term. I'm not saying that you or Cynique see him as an enemy, I'm just saying that most conscious Black men assume most intelligent Black women will naturally ally with them and agree with them on certain issues when Afrocentricism is often the furthest thing from their mind and Black empowermen isn't one of their goals. Racial politics, and politics in general is mostly a masculine thing because it involves a territorial mindset that MOST (though certainly not all) women will never understand so they can't relate to why a conscious man would EXPECT certain behavior and thinking from them. The average mentality among most of our women is: "What's wrong with ME putting blonde highlights in MY hair if that's what I want to do? Don't I have a right to do with MY hair what I want?????"

Troy If you're smart enough to get into Medical school...you certainly aren't dumb. Maybe not wise enough to realize the repercussions of your actions, but you INTENDED to do what you did. But to answer your question, if they are getting paid MILLIONS to just put on wigs and dresses simply to entertain White folks...then I'm jealous, lol.

Nubian Cynique asked you how old you are and you declined to give an age, but based on how intelligent you seem but how much you're still trying to convince these women to see things a certain way.....I'm guessing you're in your mid-30s, lol. Man, you can type paragraph after paragraph and page after page explaining yourself and STILL find be misunderstood on this subject for 2 major reasons: 1. Most men and women just think differently, especially when it comes to social subjects and they will NEVER see things your way no matter how well you articulate it. 2. Most AfroAmerican women today aren't as concerned about Afrocentric ideology as most AfroAmerican men are because they don't see white supremacy as the problem, they see BLACK MASCULINITY as the problem. Now if you think I'm lying or in error- as much as you've repeatedly called them "sista" how many times have they refered to you as "brother"?

The definition of a "racist" is an imaginary being that does not exist in Mr. Roger's neighbo...Troy's world. Because in his reality everyone is of the same race....neither racism nor racists can exist.

Troy For years many people thought I was Thumper Well I think you might be Cynique, lol. But atleast no one has accused you of being a gay white mason....yet.

Harry, you consider Kamala Harris "Black" ????? To me, this issue is less about what the Governor did decades ago and more about AfroAmerican political power/ So far despite repeated calls from other Democrats of all races as well as the NAACP, he absolutely refuses to resign. I'm wondering if Caucasian politicans begin to openly and unapologetically vocalize racist doctrine, how much power do AfroAmericans really have to remove or even just punish them? As an aside, how does it feel to know your doctor may have put on black-face or a Klansman uniform for fun while going to med-school?

Troy So we can push all this talk about "more knowledgeable" and "smarter" and "better looking" people to the side for now...... But if it exists in a person's reality....according to you it exists; so you now basically AGREE with me and others that there ARE multiple races.

You said perspective is reality. So if multiple races are real in MY reality (as you claim) then multiple races ARE REAL....no?

Troy Man how in the WORLD (this world or any other world....lol) can you sit there and say "full stop" to Cynique's statement that perception is a person's subjective VIEW OF reality.....when all day long you've been preaching that perception IS reality? In the 1st page you said: "You can't tell the difference. Perception is reality. Any changes in one's perception must come from external sources, provided one is open to receiving new information " ttps://aalbc.com/tc/topic/5680-reality-vs-perception/ How do you reconcile these two opposing positions? Either perceptions IS reality or it's a VIEW OF reality, which one will it be? 　 In my reality (one shared with most informed, thinking people) there is only one race. In your version of the world, there are multiple races -- despite the fact that view is not supported by the current science, it is one you've adopted -- it is YOUR reality. Well if multiple races are part of MY reality, then how can you say "no" to my question? Multiple races ARE real according YOUR OWN theory of reality being own's perspective! Cynique To claim or designate reality as yours or his is not to possess it. I agree that claiming reality as "yours" or "his" doesn't mean you posses it, because it's my position that the individual actually doesn't actually possess reality but that it stands independent of them. But "yours" and "his" are indeed possessive words that imply this very idea. It's like saying "your truth" instead of "the truth". Lol, if you asked for the truth and someone gave you "their truth" how much trust would you put in it? 　 If what is claimed or designated as "his" or "yours" is indeed reality, that does't mean that they possess that reality. Their perceptions have simply been verified. To say that their perceptions have been VERIFIED suggests that some perceptions could be inaccurate, not true, not real. Is that correct?

Cynique Perception is an individual's subjective view of reality. Agreed. Which is why I said a few days ago "perception is not the same as reality. It's an INTERPRETATION of reality" Nobody possesses reality. It belongs to itself. A person's perception of reality belongs to him. Again, I agree and I've been saying THIS all through out this thread; however both YOU and TROY have been preaching the opposite! Infact, you just said: "If it's your perception of reality, it is your reality." and "it is not his reality until he realizes he has it." If no one possesses reality, then why are you using possessive pronounce like YOUR and HIS to describe it? It cannot belong to itself AND be "yours" and "his" at the same time. You're contradicting yourself. 　 If this perception coincides with reality, then the perception that is his, becomes reality Well...... As much as you and Troy claim to agree with eachother this statement disagrees with Troy's position....being that perception IS reality (according to his reasoning there is no need to determine "if" perception coincides with reality because both are the same). But I'm not going to drill you on Troy's beliefs; you have enough contradictions of your own and answer for.

Lurkers: I know..... But I'm not expecting concession, or even agreement. At this point, it's just entertainment.....lol. 　 Cynique the tumor is reality, it is not his reality until he realizes he has it. If the tumor is reality, then WHOSE reality is it before he realizes it? Troy See there you go again running to the white man book LOL for validation! Well hell, the White man INVENTED the word "reality" so ofcourse I'll go to his dictionary to find out the definition! Now if we discuss a word YOU or another Black man invented, then we'll go to the Black man's dictionary ....lol. Dude what do you know about what actually exists or real -- other than what someone else has told you? You decide what is real and was is false. We all do it. I tell you the dress is blue and you swear it is gold. OK. Then will you finally agree with me that RACE is real and exists even if it's not a part of your personal reality? Something tells me that you don't take this same attitude about the fluidity of reality when it comes to your personal finances, lol.

Well, let's go to the Oxford Dictionary........... https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/reality

Perhaps you're confusing reality with AWARENESS. Just because something isn't part of a person's awareness, doesn't mean it's not a part of their reality. They just aren't aware of it because they don't perceive it. A person can be sick and not know it.

When you say "that's right".....are you saying that if a person has a tumor but doesn't perceive it then it's NOT part of their reality?

Chev LOL! The BIG WHAT!? Take your pick, lol. Any of a number of big events that they claim will end the world and bring the "rapture" or the return of Jesus.....so they believe. 　 　 It's not that it is so cold in January, but it is about scientist tracking GLOBAL RECORDS. It's about record keeping and seeing real recordable data. Record keeping is how all civilizations are defined as opposed to primitive existence. You don't believe this planet has switched its poles so as to have it be cold in JUne where it may not have been? Do you believe that this planet split? You don't believe that this planet split and caused certain regions that was once in a warmer climate to be in a cold region? If this were to happen in the future, yes, it would be news worthy, but tracking weather patterns also helps scientist to understand our planet and I think this is a good thing, because it helps the governments determine how to help sustain human life based on getting an understanding of certain patterns. These numbers may seem insignificant to me as a common person, but it may be important to scientist who constantly keep track of patterns. I don't have a problem with them keeping records, I have a problem with them sensationalizing everything in order to instill fear in the minds of the masses and manipulate them into falling in line with their agenda of social division and exploitation. For the last 3 days all you've heard in the media is "record breaking this" and "record breaking that"....but when you look at the actual records that they've kept they say that it hasn't been this cold SINCE "18----" or "19----". Which tells me no records are actually being broken and it HAS been colder than this before, but they are sensationalizing THIS cold snap to make it seem as if there's never been anything like it since humanity.

So if a person has a tumor but they don't perceive it......is that tumor not part of their reality?

Troy If that is the case what is stopping you from saying any old crazy thing just to make a point... ah nevermind in your case their nothing stopping you LOL! Regardless as to how crazy it sounds, if it supports my point and you can't dispute it.....then it's valid. Do you disagree with all of the psychiatrist and psychologists who say that mental illness is a DISTORTED perception of reality and now make the claim instead that schizophrenics are not sick but simply live in another world with another reality? We agree that perceptions are different. I'm saying perceptions are reality. What you believe is a objective relativity is just your perception. Again, PERCEPTION is not the same as REALITY. It's an INTERPRETATION of reality based on one's physical senses and intellect....or lack there of. Again, another example............ If I place a rock infront of you while you're walking, that rock IS infront of you whether you SEE it (perceive it) or not. Just because you don't perceive that rock it doesn't mean it's not there nor does it mean you won't stumble over it if you aren't careful. You, me, and the rock are all in the SAME reality despite YOUR perspective or lack there of. They just know our understanding of gravity does not explain it. OK? Different understandings or even LACK OF ANY understanding of gravity doesn't change the laws of gravity or the fact that it exists. It just means that the original understandings may have been wrong. Reality doesn't change UNLESS a new factor is introduced. But a change in PERCEPTION of that same reality would allow you to see it from a different perspective and thus gain knowledge and insight of that which already existed. The bottom line is, perception isn't YOUR reality....it's simply YOUR perception OF reality. Outside of the multiverse theory....reality itself is CENTRAL and various perspectives and perceptions revolve around it.

Troy Lets not convolute things any further with mental illness. Ofcourse not....lol. Why introduce factors that support what I'm saying while disproving your assertions? Because experts have agreed that severe mental illness DISTORTS a person's perceptions to the point that their beliefs about reality are clearly false; if follows that reality CAN NOT simply be basd on each individual's perception of it. If it were, the concept of someone being mental illness wouldn't exist because they would just be in alignment with their own reality. I don't think the multiverse theory can ever be proven. If it is true (and I believe it is), I think it could atleast be proven on an INDIVUAL basis by each individual verifying the existence of other universes for themselves. 　 　 Well that is basically my point man. an individuals perception is "their" relativity. The perception IS their reality. No no no....it's their relativity but NOT "their" reality. That reality is not theirs exclusively but is shared. They....we...are in the SAME reality but with different perceptions of it based on our relativity to it. So you are using gravity to prove an objective reality, when we really don't have a clue what 95% of the observable universe if made of. Unless or until you can PROVE that whatever that 95% consists of actually CHANGES the reality and function of gravity....it's a moot point. You are using too much speculation to defend your position that reality is subjective.

Troy We don't need to go that far back..... I can't speak about New York because it has a different economy and you've always had to be a hustler there, but in Detroit back in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and early 80s MOST AfroAmericans were not only getting married and raising families but also buying houses and new cars by the time they got to their mid-20s. If you find someone who wasn't doing this they were in the minority (less than 20%) and usually they were either mentally disabled from birth or addicted to drugs and alcohol preventing them from holding down a job or using their money wisely but MOST AfroAmericans were independant and living better than today. Infact, on the other end of the specturm about 20% of AfroAmericans did so well they could actually buy property and go into business for themselves! This is what I've witnessed MYSELF in the 70s and 80s...not what I read from some lying economist or history revisionist.

Troy again I say it is relative. If you put the building on the moon the result would be different -- even though the "law" has not changed. I never said it wasn't relative; but relative is just an individuals position with or perception of an established reality. How you RELATE to an object or subject doesn't change the reality of that object or subject. Like you said the law of gravity did not change simply because HE changed environments. It still IS what it is and if he comes back to THIS atmosphere he'll have to face it again. The moon's and Earth's atmospheres are still part of the SAME reality. To the other extreme others have posited an infinite number of universes with different physical constants were the incomprehensible can take place this too is reality, albeit one may may never experience. You said others have POSITED...and that's a key word. This is the multi-verse theory, but has it been proven? We can sit here and entertain theories all day long, but certain laws of THIS reality are constant and they rarely if ever change regardless as to how you relate to them or what your perspective of them are. 　 What is real is what we can perceive -- the example of the mentally disturbed man you provided aside. Are you suggesting that a person who doesn't perceive that they are sick can not have a disease simply because they haven't acknowledged it?