Pioneer1

I echo your sentiments. I wonder what happened to Tavis Smiley. Haven't been hearing much for him since the accusations and dismissal.

You're saying that a man who defends you unconditionally despite your behavior is "acting right". What if we said that to parents? That they should defend their children unconditionally not criticizing their behavior or expecting any responsibility from them? What if a parent just defended the dress, speech, and behavior of their child unconditionally and went to school beating up the teachers everytime that child had poor grades or fighting the neighbors everytime that child does something destructive to their property..... What type of adult do you think that parent would produce when the child grows up....IF they grow up?

Troy Ofcourse I know it's not Black owned NOW, but for it's first 20-30 years of history it was. And again it showed the world what we were capable of when we put our minds to it and stop begging for acceptance from outside of ourselves. I'm not hard on Monique, I just think she's a little presumtuous to start running to the Black community for support when she doesn't have a history of being pro-Black and standing with u BEFORE her troubles. How would you feel about a cousin whom you knew well but never gave you anything, never came by to visit you, never called you, pretty much treated you like a stranger but then all of a sudden showed up at your door one day with his suit cases talking about, "What up Cuz....I need a place to stay. And uhhhh....since we family......so you need to show some family values and point me to my room!" If you expect support, a report must be first buit into the relationship so that trust and mutual respect is established.

Mel I'm not condemning the good things you're saying about your ex. I'm not you and haven't walked in your shoes or know what you've gone through to judge your activities. I'm just looking at the facts. You can provide all of the justification you like but the fact remains that the man you hold as ideal above all or most other men you've ever met is a White man. And many other women of color have done the same.....their their praise and love and reverence of White men have been used to destroy entire communities and kingdoms which is why we must be careful with these thoughts. There are White people I like and have good things to say about, but I've never been inlove with any White person nor do I hold any White person as the best (kindest, nicest, loveliest, smartest, ect...) in anything because that's too much like being supreme in that aspect. 　 Troy Trust and mistrust are a matter of personal opinions, so as far as I'M CONCERNED Mel's criticizms of Black men can't be trusted for the above stated reasons. But others may not care how she feels about White men (or atleas one White man) and think her criticizms are fully legitimate and justified. But as far as you or even Cynique..... I haven't heard you all mention anything in your backgrounds like falling involve with a White man/woman that I believe would cloud your judgement or establish ulterior motives that would cause you to subconsciously hate or think less of AfroAmerican men/women. As far as Ali and the Nation of Islam..... As I told Cynique.....I don't defend organized religions but I do look at RESULTS. If a particular organization or institution produces POSITIVE RESULTS then I'm going to support those results. Say what you want to about misogyny and anachronism but the FACTS are when those women stood up and when you look at most of the MGT in the Nation of Islam....the RESULTS are undeniable. The vast majority of them tend to be beautiful, nice, gentle, and respectful......and get plenty of respect from the men not only in their mosques but from the Black communit in general and even around the world. Women in the Nation of Islam are NOT treated like other AfroAmerican women even by non-Muslim Black men. I know a lot of men who won't even cuss or smoke around them. So again, say what you will about the methods.....but the RESULTS are what I'm looking at.

Chev Here's a map of the Caucasus mountains. Right towards the southern end of them you'll find Mt. Ararat. -Mt. Ararat IS IN the Caucasus mountains at the lower end. -The actual Mt. Olympus IS NOT in the Caucasus mountains but it was NAMED after the "mythological" Mt. Olympus by Caucasian tribes before arriving there. -What was it called before then? I don't know. More importantly; If you believe that the mythical story of NOah and his sons migrated down from the Caucasus, how does this tie into the story of Noah and his sons migrating down from MT ARARAT? If you look at Mt. Ararat it's on the southern end of the Caucasus mountain range and just like the Biblical myth of Noah and his sons coming down the mountain and scattering in different directions to repopulate the Earth----- -the Caucasians in reality came down those same mountains and scattered in different directions to take over the original Black kingdoms. You're right, the Trojan war was about displacing the original Black populations of Greece, Turkey and Anatolia.

Ali played himself in that video clip. He was a straight embarrassment. That's a matter of opinion. Just like you, some of the things he said I agreed with.....other things I didn't. I take him as an individual and his words in isolation. Although I didn't agree with him calling Africans savages, instead being embarassed I was rather PROUD that a Black man would challenge the moral hypocrisy and questionable ethics of a White man on national television and her pretty much made a laughing stock of him on his own show....lol. 　 　 te man who to this day still loves this dark-skinned kinky-hair black woman and the ground she walks on. It's funny how you call him "French/German" as if that makes any difference. French and German are cultures/nationaities and have NOTHING to do with that man's genetics. You may as well have said he's Baptist/Catholic for what it's worth, lol. Caucasian is Caucasian regardless of the language spoken or the culture practiced. And he ain’t soft like you like to think about white men. You can’t roll with me and be soft. I never said that White men as a whole were "soft". I personally believe that as a collective African men BY NATURE are more masculine but there are a lot of factors involved like diet, environment, nurturing, ect... Hell in some ways (namely intellectually and emotionally) White American men are more masculine tan AfroAmerican men today. He would kick anyone’s ass who would dare to step to me , his black stepdaughter (yes he stepped up and raised her like his own) and African/european descent daughters... no matter what they or I wear. And trust, no one dictates what we wear or what we do ... and he’d still defend and protect us for exercising our rights. But then again he’s white in America so maybe that’s privilege lol. Ohhh, so THIS explains your strange belief that Black women should be loved, served, and protected unconditionally without taking any responsibility for their behavior. I see the "bar" was raised pretty high.....lol. Even though we’re no longer married I considered myself lucky for choosing this strong white man as partner. He is the kindest man I know. So you're telling me that of all the men you've met in your family. Of all the men you've met growing up in Brooklyn. And from your travels around the nation and probably the world as a reporter you're going to sit up here and tell me that the kindest man you ever met just HAPPENED to be a White man??? But you want to accuse Ali of being "indoctrinated" with White Supremacy while you place a White man on top above all other men as being "supreme" in kindness....the very definition of White Supremacy. Ironically, he never tried to control me or the girls...but I guess there was no need. Ofcourse he didn't need to because most AfroAmerican girls are ALREADY conditioned to worship and revere White men through the image of a White "Jesus" they grow up with in the church. While Black man often get frustrated at not being able to influence the women in their family and often turn to violence to get their way out of frustration....because of this previous "Jesus" indoctrination all many White man have to do is just SHOW UP and because the ground has already been laid and cultivated for his worship in her mind she'll automatically fall in line and obey him. So no, I didn’t choose white supremacy; I chose freedom -and what resulted is a white man who worships us black women...daughters of Africa, with all the respect due us. Yeah.... Where was THAT type of White man when sisters like Sandra Bland and Renish McBride needed them for protection from the "other" White men who killed them? Listen, that was a beautiful story and maybe one day I'll see it on the Lifetime channel, however none of what you said dismisses what I said previously about your motives for criticizing Black men being suspect and untrustworthy. Infact it proves it. -By your own admission you considered yourself fortunate (good luck, blessed, highly favored) to meet a strong White man whom you felt protected you. -By your own admission you praise the strength of this White man. -By your own admission you praise the kindness of this White man and place him above all other men. Can you not see how your mind......despite the excuses you're using to justify it...has been indoctrinated with White supremacy? Hell, even a slave (I'm not calling you one) can justify his slavery by saying his master was kind to him, gave him food, and kept him occupied with doing work he enjoyed.....but the fact remains he was STILL A SLAVE. Excuses and justifications don't eliminate facts. This is why I say that your MOTIVES can't be trusted when it comes to your criticizms of Ali or any other Black man despite the legitimacy of your claims. Because despite all of this talk about "female empowerment", I recognize that behind it stands a strong subconscious love and worship of White men as the "ideal man". So every Black man you come across will be judged by this standard and ultimately considered "less than" by comparison.

Nubian Well if that's what he meant then that's what he should have said, lol. I would have agreed, because I too was disappointed at Motown leaving My-town (Detroit) and moving to California where I think it lost much of it's flavor by leaving it's Black urban base and going "Hollywood". Never the less, you can't dismiss the powerful impact Motown had on it's first 20-25 years bringing the world people like Diana Ross, The Temptations, and Marvin Gaye. It showed the world and most importantly Black America what we can do when we make up our minds to control our OWN talents instead of staying on the plantation begging "massa" for justice. I also agree with you but forgot to say until you brought it up that yes.....one of the reasons more Black people didn't stand with Monique was because she wasn't standing with them. She didn't start talking Black unity until she got HER "n*ggger wake up call" and then all of a sudden she wants to act like Queen Nzinga and wage war against the industry, lol.

1. I'm not a defender of Islam. I'm not a defender of ANY organized religion.....but I recognize truth where ever it is found whether in religion, philosophy, or personal observation. 2. I'm not a defender of Muhammad Ali's comments or behavior and how he talked about other Black people, called them gorillas in Manila, or called Africans savage. That video was offered as a response to Mel's suggesting that a man who is focused on or criticizes a woman's appearance was some how weak or neglectful in his duties. I'm at work right now but if I had time I could probably dig up a clip of Malcolm X (whom you both had positive things to say about) criticizing the dress of Black women as well.

Motown isn't as big as it was but it's STILL in existence as an institution and it was started in the late 50s....over 60 years ago. Man, if you have drawers over 60 years old, that Motown example ain't the ONLY thing that's "terrible". Better go to Target or TJ Maxx this weekend and "treat" yourself son. See if you can get some fresh underwear on one of those post-Valentine's Day sales...lol.

Troy Given your conversation with Chevdove about the Bible I figured you must be a Christian or some pioneerized version of one. I was curious to know which parts you believed. And this statement supports my previous post about you being unwilling or incapable of understanding my positions on history and religion. You keep trying to put me in a box instead of taking my statements as they are. Mel I always thought Ali was a wise man - but in this clip, it is clear, he’s fully indocrinated as a white supremacist. Damn. Mel you're a smart woman who says many things I agree with but honestly, is a woman such as yourself with a HISTORY of falling inlove with and marrying White men even qualified to accuse Muhammad Ali or any other Black man of being "indoctrinated with White supremacy" ??? You chose to fall inlove with and commit yourself to the very AGENT of White Supremacy itself; so your motives for criticism of Black men like Ali can't be trusted.

Chev A quick aside.... You're right that the Mt. Olympus of TODAY is in Greece but it was named AFTER the "mythological" Mt. Olympus that was part of the ancient Greek tribal legends before they actually arrived in Greece. In other words, they already had a Mt. Olympus as part of their myth as they were leaving the Caucasus and traveling west towards Greece and later on after settling there they NAMED that mountain range Olympus just like they named the land "Greece" after displacing the original Black residents.

Black people need to stop crying over and begging for crumbs and we need to build more of OUR OWN institutions where WE can control what we do and how much money we make. This is one of the reason I have so much respect for Berry Gordy and Motown. When the world didn't want to recognize Black talent or pay it for what it was worth, Berry said: "Fuck you....we're pack up our shit, move out, and do our OWN thing" And next thing you know the WORLD was (and still is) rocking to the Motown sound! When you're always hanging out at other people's houses and looking for meals you can't get mad and throw a fit everytime you feel they don't put enough sugar in your Kool Aid.

Chev Most of the gods of Greek and Roman mythology were actually the Black people from Egypt who went up to the Caucasus mountains to give Caucasians civilization. Jupiter is just the Roman version of Zeus which was Greek. Both are myths and they both come from the same source....the Caucasus mountains. Just like Zeus/Jupiter had two other brothers (Posiedon and Hades).....Japheth had two other brothers (Ham and Shem) And just like the Noah myth talks about how Noah and his children came down from Mt. Ararat (Caucasus Mountains); in Greece these Black people were known as "Titans" or the Olden gods who dwelt on "Mt. Olympus" which is just another way of telling you the Caucasus mountain.

Troy I'm not sure what to tell you because after all I've said in this thread, for you to still ask me if I believed in the story of Adam and Eve makes me wonder if you're actually reading what I type or are even capable of understand what I've typed. What good is giving you an answer that you can't understand? Mel Nagging about another’s appearance, which gay men have turned into an art form, is a weak and ineffective showing of black masculinity. In fact, when I was growing up in Brooklyn - dudes called that a "bitch" move. Really? If a man who tells his wife or woman how he wishes for her to dress in public is acting like a bitch, I pity the punk who is too scared to even do THAT and just keeps quiet....lol. But I would have loved to see one of those "dudes" you speak of walk up to Muhammad Ali and tell HIM that he's making a bitch move for critizing the way some women dress....lol.

Troy how can Black people have been around for billions of years when the planet has been capable of supporting human life for far less time? This is theory, not necessarily proven fact. We must remember that just like a few centuries ago the West believed that man was ONLY 6,000 years old.....every generation of Western scientists seem to find more evidence of man being much older than previously believed. Do you believe Black people are extraterrestrial? Actually the opposite..... I believe Black people not only come from this planet but are probably the most adapt for it. How many Black people need sunscreen or shades to "protect" themselves from nature?

Indeed...... It IS sad if a member of the opposite sex has to pull a Black woman to the side and explain to her that putting blonde highlights in her hair and wearing worn-out spandex and flip flops (especially when you're 320 lbs) is an inappropriate look for the workplace. You'd think another Black woman would pull her to the side and tell her this; rather than allowing her to make a public fool of herself so that SHE can look good by comparison. But that's how many of our people do eachother.

Troy it is if they claim to be a Christian Mormons claim to be Christian but many of them practice polygamy. Infact, many of the earlier Christians of Africa and Asia continued to practice polygamy even after converting because there's nothing in the Christian scriptures themselves that actually forbid or contradict having multiple spouses. Infact, if the European colonizers hadn't FORCED them to stop.....most African and Asian Christians would STILL be practicing polygamy. @Chevdove Chev Would you believe it if I told you that the Jupiter deity of Roman mythology was the same being as Japheth (son of Noah) of the Old Testament?

Troy i was just asking a question lol! Maybe you believe Adam lived a million years ago. Besides you and Chevdove are talking over my head with this biblical stuff. Your question got such a strong reaction from me because after all I've said about this subject....for someone to STILL ask me whether or not I take the story literally makes it seem as if I was wasting my time explaining my thoughts. But to answer your question, NO I don't take the story literally. Again, I believe it's a MYTH that symbolizes a deeper truth about the origins of Caucasians....like many other myths such as the story of Noah's Ark. To make my beliefs clear: Blacks = billions of years old or older Caucasians (or "White people" if you prefer) = around 6,000 years old Native Americans, East Asians, ect = I have no idea ....I hope this provides more clarification.

There's nothing wrong with Black men having multiple children with multiple women as long as they are properly rearing them and providing for them all (including the mothers).

Troy So you two believe in Adam (and presumably Eve) as in the 1st two people on Earth the progenitors of all of mankind, who some omnipotent being ejected from the garden of eden, along with some other punishments, for eating an apple on the urging of a talking snake? Do you two, @Chevdove and @Pioneer1 believe this story... literarlly? Man.....I can't believe you just asked me that question. Are you serious? Chev @Troy I don't believe that @Pioneer1 believes in this story at all, as he makes it plain that he believes that Black people existed on this earth millions of years ago. Well, it's good to see that atleast SOMEBODY has been actually reading and comprehending what I post....lol.

This is the first time I've heard of Haitians calling their nation "Jeremy". They actually call their island "Aitee" But study the Haitian revolution and you will see that THOSE HAITIANS ( I don't know about the Haitians before or after them) REJECTED Christianity and the Bible and called on their ancestral spirits and deities to give them power to defeat the French.

Chev 1. Haitians didn't use a script to get their independance. Infact they rejected the biblical scripts and the Christian religion itself given to them by the French. Instead they used a CEREMONY in which they contacted their ancestoral spirits and received spiritual powers from them. TODAY many Haitians call themselves Catholic (and mix some voodoo with it....lol) , but originally those who actually liberated Haiti from the French REJECTED those scriptures. 2. The Bible as a whole didn't come from Black people. The TORAH...which is a small fraction of the Bible found in the Old Testament.....came from a Black man named Moses who was sent up from Egypt into Caucasus mountains to civilized the Caucasians....which is why there are some similarities between the Torah and Ma'at concept of Kemet. 3. I'm not sure of the actual date because dates change depending on which calendar you use, but the existence of Caucasians....the mythical Adam....goes back no futher than about 6,000 years...or 4,000 B.C. You won't find any records, paintings, or scriptures for, by, or about them going back beyond this time period. As old as Europe is, anyting they find in Europe that existed before 4,000 B.C. they attribute it to "Grimaldi" man and not to Cro-Magnon. Meanwhile Black people have been on this planet atleast MILLIONS of years and everyday they're finding more and more evidence of exactly just how old the Black man is, lol.

Yes, Western Penn seemed to be more racist and the people seemed to have more of a southern accent. I've heard it had something to do with the Appalacia mountains or something, lol. But like I said, I saw more plaid shirts and heard more country music there than when I was in North Carolina.

Chev The Amish can be racist....even against other Whites whom they call "English". But in my opinion it's more of a "harmless" or benign racism in which they simply want to be left alone. As opposed to a malignant racism in which you seek out people of color to victimize. When I lived in Pittsburgh I would routineley do business with Amish merchants who would come in to sell their foods and hand crafted furniture.

Nubian In reference to the scriptures that Troy quoted...... This is a good example of what we were talking about. The Pentatauch (first 5 books of the Bible) is basically a playbook for Caucasians on how to go to these ancient Black kingdoms (and then to the Americas), displace their original religions with a new religion that robs them of their spirituality, genocide most of them, and enslave the rest. Now the Old Testament of the Bible is just ONE example of such books and it is specific to the Semitic Caucasians. But if you look at India and the Aryan Caucasians who founded Hinduism, they have several books of their own instructing THEM how to enter the Indus Valley region slaughtering and enslaving the inhabitants. The Mahabharata is one of those books telling how the Aryans were instructed to go in and destroy and enslave the Blacks of that land and if you read it it is remarkably similar to the Old Testament in terms of genocide, violence, and enslavement. 　 Chev UNKNOWN SOURCES... If Black African people have been made to be so confused so as not to believe that they can understand the ancient Black presence then, that means White Supremacy has been accepted. Many of us say that we believe ancient Black people were leaders, but have NO KNOWN SOURCE to base this upon... SOOOoooo we fell most comfortable with just being Spiritual. Many BLack people have thrown away all script and all sources, and are just SPIRITUAL... and that is why many will always be subjected to being suppressed. Without some script source to adhere to, you will be ruled by THE CONSTITUTION OF AMERICA or some other script source and 'religion', be it the Greco-Roman Idolatry or etc. Although it's certainly not perfect and was written by racists, it makes more sense that many people including many AfroAmericans would put more trust in the U.S. Constitution than in the Bible simply because of what you just said: UNKNOWN SOURCES! We KNOW who wrote and signed the U.S. Constitution and we know atleast something about the intentions and frame of mind of those who authored it; but when it comes to the Bible there are over 60 different books, from dozens of different sources, translated from atleast 3 different languages with an endless number of interpretations. How can you POSSIBLY have so much faith and confidence in such a questionable document? As they say in the streets, it's be "stepped on" too many times. In my opinion, any Divine scriptures or Divine instructions for humanity should be given DIRECTLY to the people or individuals they are intended for instead of "through" other sources (people, books, stones, youtube, ect....), in order to cut down on the confusion.