Pioneer1

So basically you've decided to: -IGNORE everything I said in my previous post...... -PUT WORDS into my mouth and attribute to me a position that I've never taken..... -then proceed to argue against that position and claim victory? OK..... Lol....shame, shame, shame.

I hope you don't talk like that to your 72 year old stud muffin you say is always asking you to come over so he can "rock your world".....lol.

And I said I wanted PROOF of your conversion.....so "not"....until I get what I asked for.

I didn't say I had a problem with the film. I haven't even seen it yet. Everyone I know who HAS, said it was a good film.....so I'm not dissing it. I'm just saying that PERHAPS it was a catharsis. Cynique said it was "escape entertainment"....and that's what a catharsis is. It's a means of ESCAPE from your reality when you feel you are powerless to change it.

I'm not sure at what point you changed your mind....maybe you can show us the thread or give us a link where you actually did this before me pointing our your inconsistency on this issue. Anyway..... While it's true that race is a MAN MADE construct, it's not an ARTIFICIAL one. Artificial constructs ARE man-made, but that doesn't mean that all man-made constructs are artificial. Artificial things are a REPLICA or COPY of the original. The concept of race.....to my knowledge....is an original idea/concept that was used to classify human beings. It's not a copy of another.

Zaji Absolutely science has become the new religion in the West! Most organized religions require people to have BLIND FAITH and to accept things based on hand-me-down knowledge instead of directly investigating things for themselves and coming to their own conclusions. And the science that is practiced in the West is the exact same way! Infact, if you don't believe in the THEORY of evolution in most scientific circles, you are usually ridiculed and everything else you have to offer is dismissed. Which is the same bullying tactic that most organized religions engage in.

　 Zaji Much of Socialism/Communism actually comes from Black systems of living if one looks at them closely. But bastardized. TERRIBLY bastardized by those who thought they could co-opt it without consequence. Just like most of these organized religions....lol. They take bits and pieces of ancient African philosophy and culture and run off with it half-cocked without a full understanding of them and invent oppressive belief systems with very little spiritual value and a lot of empty rituals that they have to continue to revise with each generation. As far as an ideal economic system....for me, a health MIX would be best. For example, when it comes to basic necessities that people must have to live and function normaly in society like health-care and housing....I think these things are best SOCIALIZED and controled by the COMMUNITY so that everyone gets something. But when it comes to things like entertainment or inventing new machines, I prefer a more free enterprise based system where people are directly rewarded for their talents and efforts. Having worked with and around Black people for so long, I know that in order to get the best out of most of our people there must be a REWARD or PUNISHMENT tied directly to the deed. Too many of our people have a "lazy streak" in them that is only exacerbated when they see people around them working...lol. People often point to Mexicans or Chinese and how 8 or 9 of them can all live in one house, work, and pool their money together to purchase a businesss and get rich; and ask why can't Black people do the same thing. Lol......would you like to know the reason I give them for why we don't?

It might be a movie put out for catharsis purposes. The POWERFUL will put out a film for those who are POWERLESS in this society to live out their fantasies on film as a way of satisfying them INSTEAD OF actually giving them opportunities to improve themselves in real life.

　 Troy It is fascinating to see how malleable your thought process is. Rather that just concede that you now agree with what I've been saying all along you have the balls to write; "The fact is, race is a CONCEPT.....an idea" and make it seem like you are making a revelation?! Man what are you talking about? Since day one I have AGREED with you that race was a human construct! Infact, if you look at the FIRST PAGE OF THIS VERY THREAD I all abut said this very thing when I told you: "Just because it's a human construct, doesn't mean it doesn't exist." https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/4850-actually-troy/?page=1 　 I've NEVER denied that the concept of race was a human construct. So are the concepts of "sex" and "gender". I said that race was a way of CATEGORIZING PEOPLE and all categories are human constructs. At any rate, given that statement, one you've seemly integrated, unconsciously, that idea that race is just an idea without basis in genetics. Again, I've NEVER denied that race was a human construct. What I said WAS NOT a "human construct" were the PHENOTYPICAL FEATURES (skin color, eye color, hair color and texture, nose/lip shape) that the racial categories are based upon. Those are physical genetically based features. Just like SEX is a human construct, but the PENIS and VAGINA that the construct of sex is based upon is NOT. I also told you that just because something is a human construct, doesn't mean it has no validity. Literacy is a human construct.....but it's valid and useful. Counting is a human construct....but it's valid and useful. Medicine and health care are human constructs.....but they are valid and useful. Cynique This is yet another example of how you CHANGE your position just to oppose me, lol. We know that you AGREE with my idea that various races exist....yet you pretend that you're agreeing with Troy.

Zaji If we build a Utopia, it has to be built based on BLACK THOUGHT or the way the BLACK PSYCHE operates. Bellamy's work was entertaining, but it's impractical for Black people because what motivates White people to behave a certain way aren't necessarily the same things that will motivate Black people. This is one of the reasons that the type of Communism and Socialism that Marx and Engles promoted didn't produce the results among Black societies who tried it the way it did for Europeans societies. The societies of color where it DID work....China, Cuba, North Korea....it had to be modified from it's original doctrine. One of the major reason for this is despite Communism's atheistic approach....because of it's European origins...it's basic social morals are is still rooted in the Judeo-Christian moral ethic that so dominates the psyche of most Europeans. Meaning, even those who call themselves ATHEIST still believe in Christian priciples of morality. So for example.......... The EUROPEAN vision of a Utopia would still hold up the NUCLEAR FAMILY as ideal and probably still ban prostitution and sexual liberation; however we know that for Black people the EXTENDED FAMILY is best and we also know that sexual oppression and suppression is one of the major reasons there is NOT a Utopia on the planet currently. So the very principles OF those who claim they want a Utopia are the very principles that will CANCEL OUT that Utopia for others.

Troy {deep sigh} @Pioneer1, Racism is real. The claims being made by so called Black people are perfectly valid. However, the foundation for the claims made by racist, like white superiority, are baseless. Lol........ See, this is what Del is talking about when he refers to you and Cynique having "emotional" reactions to what I say instead of meeting me on a strictly logical level. Instead of sighing and groaning and talking about how baseless and silly the argument is, why not just DISPROVE it? The fact is, race is a CONCEPT.....an idea And it's very hard and next to impossible to invalidate a CONCEPT. Zaji Yes. I agree. It is irrelevant whether race is real or not real in this context. Racism is real because it is a behavior based on a belief. If a psycho BELIEVES that I am a demon and that all demons sent by Satan should be killed, he/she will ACT based on this erroneous belief. Am I a demon? Maybe. Maybe not. But it won't matter to the psycho who has power over me and thinks I'm a demon, and, who might even be hallucinating and physically seeing me as a demon. He will try to kill me based on what HE sees, NOT what I see and believe I know to be true about myself. Absolutely, and to add on to what you said...... One of the problems with trying to deny the existence of race is the fact that racists are RUNNING much of the society we live in! Whether TROY believe in the concept of race or not: The DOCTOR he goes to see might. The POLICE OFFICER who stops him on the street might. The PRESIDENT who lead the nation he's living in might. The STAFF of his place of employement may have individuals who DO see race. And if THESE people not only believe in the concept of race but also see THEIR race as superior and TROY'S as inferior then this will pose very real problems for him. So it would be wise to understand and accept the concept of race whether one thinks it's valid or not.

Bottom line, 99% of what we know we get from methods we cannot personally confirm. It's a sad truth I really think we should pay closer attention to this fact and the reasons behind it. Why is it that so much of the information that we as AfroAmericans put our trust in and shape our lives around come from OUTSIDE of our community? Malcolm X said if a man won't TREAT you right, what makes you think he'll TEACH you right. I also believe RELIGION in general plays a major role in conditioning our minds to just "accept" certain things as true whether we have verified them or not.

**revisit**

Troy of course the "claims" of racists are fictitious; that does not mean racism does not exist. Are you deliberately being obtuse? I didn't say the claims of "racists" are ficticious; I said that IF the concept of race is fiction.....as you say....then that means that the concept of RACISM and all the CLAIMS OF RACISM would also be ficticious. In other words....... If race doesn't exist....then that would mean that the claims that so-called Black people make about being racially discriminated against because of their race are a bunch of nonsense.

Zaji I actually JUST edited my post to address something you wrote, I'm not sure if you saw it yet.

Zaji and Mel You two are talking way over my head.....lol. 　 　 Sssneak I often wondered why they didn't show up and side with him. Because zaji is invariably in lock step with him, i now have my suspicions, and while she is watching me, i am watching her Lol.....sssneaky As for that other crap you wrote up there, You have an absolutely INSANE imagination.....lol. 　

Zaji Without some sort of currency or monetary system, what incentive would there be for MOST people to work or atleast do enough to keep the society functioning? I say "most" because ofcourse you have some people who would do things for free for the good of the community, but I don't think most people would. Delano If Black people worried about getting killed by White people everytime you generated wealth or makd money then you wouldn't have Oprah, Bill Cosby, and countless other wealthy Black people known and unknown. It's NOT HAVING money that is more likely to get you killed. When you're broke and desperate on the street you're more likely to commit crimes that will get you either killed by other Blacks, by the police, or just get you incarcerated. Elijah Muhammad and his followers called White people "devils" to their faces and amassed a multi-million dollar empire....lol. Black people are the original owners and rulers of this planet bro. Collectively we get what we WANT to get when we make up our minds to get it. I've seen this personally on multiple occasions. The main reason Black people in America (and quite possibly around the world) are in the condition they're in today is because most are too lazy to think for themselves and would rather do the easy thing which is beg White people to take care of them. In other words..... Instead of investing the effort to learn how to build a car for themselves and doing it.....they'd rather beg one White man for a job and take the money they earned to BUY a car from another White man. But don't worry.... Trump is putting an end to that, lol.

Rayane I didn't feel that I was belonging, that I was accepted When you said you didn't feel like you belonged or were accepted, my questions are: You didn't feel like you belonged WHERE? And you didn't feel like you were accepted by WHO? Could you be very specific about the settings of the "where" and describe the people of the "who" in as much detail as possible.

Perhaps the problem isn't words but the mis-education behind the real meaning OF those words. Most Americans and especially poor and working class people who went to public schools are INTENTIALLY poorly educated, especially when it comes to grammar. I'm not sure about other languages but the average usage of words in everyday American life is EXTREMELY limited. Out of the possibly tens if not hundreds of thousands of words in the English language, probably less than a 1000 are used by most people. You can read older documents like the Federalist Papers and the U.S. Constitution and the vocabulary they used when writing them to see how far the language of the United States has "devolved"....lol. So although speech and words are limited, it wouldn't hurt to atleast KNOW ALL of them and begin putting them into use. Also........ As African people our minds....our psyche....seem to process and produce information differently than the European mind. Because of this, no matter where you go whether it's in Haiti, Jamaica, Brazil or Nigeria, Senegal and South Africa....the Black people have MODIFIED the European language they were forced to speak to fit their own syntax and psyche. It's often called "slang", "ebonics", or "broken English"....but whatever European language was imposed upon them wasn't sophisticated enough to capture the intent, style, swag, and depth of most African minds. Zaji This culture is focused on the words in a dictionary and keeping us trapped in that. When in many old world cultures, meaning was what was primary This is true. Even in this society despite the fact that we speak a form of English, when interacting with eachtother most Black folks focus far more on what we MEAN than by our actual words. If you're out with your husband....you can tell by how another woman says "hello" to him whether or not she's greeting him or means something else, lol. Antoine Fischer.....who's life a movie was based on....said that his foster mother used to call him and his brothers "nigga" on a regular basis but they could all tell which one she was calling by the TONE she said it in....lol.

Troy Race is fiction. Racism is real. Come on man....lol. If RACE is fiction then it logically follows that all claims of RACE-ISM are also ficticious.

Cynique Let's make a deal. Quit responding to my posts, and i'll do the same to yours. I don't make "deals with the devil".....lol. So how about I just respond to whatever I like and you ignore it? As for Zaji....... Perhaps she's just part of my "composite" that Mel was speaking of, lol. Be careful.... There might be an entire REGIMENT of "Pioneers" somewhere in a computer lab taking turns trying to teach YOUR ass some sense....lol. If you can't handle Pioneer1........what are you going to do when Pioneer2, Pioneer3, and Pioneers 4-89 show up????

Zaji Excellent topic. Delano has seen more of this world than I have so probably he's better qualified to answer your question but let me just say............... I believe based on my observations that with a few exceptions like East Asians....most people of color around the world are doing quite poorly economically speaking. Slavery and colonialism have stripped them of their ORIGINAL KNOWLEDGE and replaced it with Western civilization. Because of this 2 problems have arose: 1. Most communities of color around the world no longer know how to provide the basic necessities for themselves in the amount necessary to sustain themselves independently. 2. Also important is that fact that Western civilization has change the VALUE SYSTEM of people of color around the world so that what they value NOW isn't necessarily what they valued hundreds of years before contact with European powers. You mentioned the monetary system, however TRUE wealth is: Health.....knowledge of medicine and the body Land...to build shelter and grow food Knowledge.....not simply going to a university in a Western country just to get a useless degree and beg for a job with Amazon, but REAL knowledge that allows you to do whatever you need and desire to do. Family.....proper marriage and mating customs that produce harmony between the sexes Money is just a means of exchange, all of the money in the world is useless unless you have secured the above mentioned. People of color need to RE-PRIORITIZE their values and recognize that they have the ability to produce an abundance of REAL WEALTH right where they stand.....and they don't need "money" to do it. All they need is a real desire to re-build their civilizations and break their love affair with Western civilization, then their own creativity will take over. But to answer your question more directly....yes we DO have leverage, especially those of us here in the United States. The United States is in a unique position of being a very wealthy nation but with far fewer financial regulations than most other wealthy nations; which means it's easier for Black people in the United States to accumulate money and play around with it than in most other parts of the world where either they DON'T have the money available to them OR they have it but it's all tied up in red tape and their ability to use their money is restricted.

Troy I can't entertain stereotypes -- indeed they are racist. If RACE doesn't exist....how can RACISM and RACIST stereotypes exist? It would be like me calling the Easter Bunny a buck-tooth fool and you getting upset and saying I shouldn't insult the Easter Bunny that way. If there is no White race or Black race then how can any talk of them be considered racist?

I noticed this even as a teenager working for and with White people on jobs. White people would do everything the hard way and insist on everyone else following their lead. Even if I found an easier and better way to mop a floor or sort papers.....they'd often times either refuse to do it that way and TRY to force me not to either OR they'd take the easy way and MAKE it hard by increasing the production.....lol. In other words............. If a worker had to clearn atleast one floor of an office building every night and this would take them the entire night only to go home tired- If you found a way to get the entire project done in half the time and go home feeling fine, those bastards would try to FORCE you to either stop doing it that way OR force you to do TWO FLOORS in one night!! As much as I critize the Asians, one thing I notice about them is when there are NO White people around and they're running their own businesses their way....it runs much smoother and far more effiencent.

Troy The pyramids are an excellent example of BLACK SCIENCE and what we can accomplish when we employ it.