Pioneer1

Del 　 Domination is about submission. I'll give you an example. Let's say you have the following types of people on a deserted island : an intelligent ,a spiritual an ethical , warriors . Often might makes right . There are a few ways to win an argument ; using emotions , logic , authorities or expert opinions , belittling and intimidation . I would argue that domination takes on many forms, but ultimately more so than submission it's about CONTROL. Submissions suggests a sort of surrender or reluctance to challenge an aggressor or authority. But if a person is being dominated, they may not be submissive....they may actually be aggressive THEMSELVES constantly fighting their oppression. But if they are being dominated, clearly the person who is dominating them has more control over them whether they are using brute force, intellectual deception, emotional manipulation, ect.....to keep them in that state of being dominated. Cynique in your confused mind. You call my mind confused, but you couldn't even figure out what "Wednesday, Thursday, Friday" meant....lol.

Lol......is that Del coming to my rescue????? This reminds me of that episode of Good Times when JJ and Thelma stopped fighting eachother to challenge James......lol. Del It is a bit niggardly to not provide evidence of your argument. Definition of terms is importance or being clear about which meaning you are utilizing. I would say so........ Without FACTS to support our conclusions, it's basically an emotional argument. Which is why it's so important that Troy provide us with a CLEAR definition of the "scientific meaning" of race so that we can atleast have some sort of reference point to work from. Troy @Del, this is a tired debate with @Pioneer1, over the years I've presented him with a great deal of information to show that there is on one race. Indeed, this website covers the subject quite well. I'm afraid you don't know what I know what I've shared with Pioneer in the past, so you really should stay quiet on this point. Just because Pioneer says I've never shared evidence with him does not make it so. Again, a cursory search on this forum shows that not to be true. I'm not tired, I'm waiting. Waiting on the facts (if they exist) to prove my position on race to be erroneous (if it is). You may be right that Del doesn't know what you've shared with me to prove that there is only one race. But guess what.....NEITHER DO I...lol. 　 　 "Race is an invented political system, not a natural biological division. The Human Genome Project has confirmed that the human species cannot be divided into genetically distinguishable races. Race is a political grouping created to support slavery and colonialism, and its boundary lines have shifted over time and across nations to suit political ends…" —Dorothy Roberts, author of Fatal Invention: How Science, Politics, And Big Business Re-Create Race In The Twenty-First Century OK, now we got something to work with....... Let's look at what Dorothy Roberts said....and DIDN'T say. Dorothy Roberts DOES NOT say that race doesn't exist. Dorothy Roberts DOES NOT say there is only one race. She DOES say that it is an INVENTED political system. She DOES say that it is a political GROUPING. This is important because both of these statements actually support MY position, being: 1. If race was INVENTED, that means it EXISTS. Which means it is real, whether you agree with it or not. 2. Because she calls race a GROUPING. This automatically means there are MULTIPLE RACES because there are muliple groups in a GROUPING. Thank you Troy for providing MORE EVIDENCE to support my conclusion that there ARE mulitple races.....lol.

I see 2 things in this story that make little sense to me............. 1. You have a man (who calls himself a preacher) who obviously likes many different women, yet CHOOSES to get "married" and pledge himself to only one woman. 2. You not only have laws that prevent women from having sex and charging men a price for it (prostitution), but have even gone so far as to ENTRAP citizens and set up "stings" to arrest and fine/jail people simply for having sex and getting paid for it. Natural behaviors that are suppressed or overly regulated tend to become perverted. Look at priests.... Catholic priest take a totally unnecessary "vow of celibacy" and as a result of suppressing their own sexual desires many of them become perverted pedophiles. Nature made man and woman to have sex with eachother. As long as they stick to the script and keep it simple leaving out all the unnecessary laws, rules, and regulations that you find in most religions and so-called societies....there would be few if any problems.

　 Troy This is why eliminating racial attitudes (racism, prejudice, bigotry) will take a very long time. First, folks, both Black and white, who think like you have to die out and stop spreading this kind of thinking Damn man....lol. That's a heavy handed response. Slavery in the Western Hemisphere was based on skin color and racial attitudes over 500 years ago. The Hindu caste system in India was initially set up based upon skin color and that was over 3000 years ago! Yet we're still facing the color issue today in 2017. Do you seriously think sitting around waiting for people to "die out" and make way for new thought is the answer? 　 Man that would be easy. When white folks were living in caves and killing each other for food. Black people were building pyramids and universities that lasted not hundreds, but thousands of years. Everything the Greeks knew was derived from Africa. That's ancient history bro. As much as I believe that to be the case, the fact is NO HUMAN (that I know of) is still around from that time period to prove this to be the case. What people see is TODAY. Who's in charge and building great civilizations and new technology TODAY. But that is not to say the Black people are superior, in fact white people come from Black people... we are one race of people. If Whites came from Blacks (and I believe this to be true) then how can their be only ONE? One and one is two. You're describing TWO separate groups of people. If a mother produces a child....then that is TWO people....not one. 　 Del Domination is more about aggression than intelligence. If domination is more about aggression than intelligence, why are so many violent criminals locked up and DOMINATED by less violent professionals such as lawyers and judges? Cynique Here's the man of YOUR dreams............. Ed Sheeran And he can sing too.....lol.

Troy No, not any more, because you can easily look it up yourself. Now I know you won't look it up, because you know -it probably DOESN'T EXIST. And you know that too, which is why you aren't providing the definition...lol.

Troy do you think white folks were justified in the beliefs that the so called Black race was inferior? It seems to me if you believe white people and Black people belong to different races, then is is fair to assume that those differences can make one race superior to the other. Since white people dominate the planet win, all the Noble prizes for science, and Black folks can't seem to earn as much money, stay out of jail, or live as long as white folks, wouldn't it be fair to assume that white people are indeed superior? It seems most of our most successful Black men marry white women. Maybe you are right Pioneer, maybe white folks are a different and superior race. This is a perfectly logical conclusion given your understanding of "race." To me, terms like "superior" and "inferior" must be qualified with a particular SUBJECT. Meaning...... You can't just say you're superior....and leave it at that. You have to describe what you're superior AT. Superior in school? Superior in morals? Superior genetically? Superior in sports? Superior at practicine medicine? We first have to define WHERE a person is claiming superior or inferior in before making a comparison. But to answer your question...... I believe that many of the Whites who believe Black people are INTELLECTUALLY inferior are absolutely justified in that belief! I didn't say it was true....I said they were JUSTIFIED in BELIVING it based on what they've seen in society. What have Black people as a group ACCOMPLISHED as compared to Whites as a group? Most normal minded White people in the United States who are able to observe the Black race and White race not just from what they've been taught in history but what they're seeing today in the media as well as what they're seeing on the streets of America today.....how could they see BOTH races as intellectually equal? What major cities are Black people building? What type of military weapons are Black people developing? How many major financial institutions do Black people own? When Black people get sick.....who's hospitals do they go to....ours or White people's? So as far as the BELIEFS of intellectual superiority go, ofcourse many Whites are justified in almost ASSUMING that they are smarter as a race. If you wanted to challenge that belief, how many things could you point to that we have accomplished to shut them down? You won't catch me arguing that White people (as a group) AREN'T smart. Hell, if a handful of people manage to take over the entire planet.....DUHH....they ain't stupid, lol. But that doesn't mean Black people can't improve ourselves and our standing in the world with effort and organization. Asians were in similar condition as Black people a few centuries ago but they managed to organize themselves into a major world power on several fronts.

I take all that to mean you WON'T be providing us with the "scientific meaning" of race anytime soon....lol.

Yes that day was pretty nice for me but I could say that MOST days for me are nice with the grace of the Supreme Being because I do what I can when I want to or feel a need to....not when society designates a special day for me to do it. If you'll remember, I've said the same thing about Valentine's Day and Mother's Day. I don't go crazy over these days.....I show the women I love appreciation when I see them. But when you speak of depression during the holidays...... I believe social media is playing a HUGE role in the depression because very few people get on facebook or twitter talking about how broke, lonely, sick, or sad they are. They all get on flashing money, flashing gifts, flashing pictures of a well toned body or a new boyfriend or bragging about a new job. In a society where more and more resources are being hoarded into the hands of a greedy few, more people are fat and out of shape than ever, and an increasing number of people are becoming destitute.....social media has become a cruel psychological joke for so many confused youth.

I've been saying some of this for YEARS. I wish I had recordings of myself confirming it like a lot of these characters on Youtube.....lol. I think Dr Kaku is HALF correct in that one of the main reasons the U.S. is at the top of the ladder is because it sucks in the talents and skills from people all over the world despite having a poor educational system. However there are some things he left out.... He doesn't make the distinction that it's the PUBLIC educational system in the United States that's so terrible, however there are a lot of PRIVATE institutions reserved for wealthy White children (and a few non-Whites) that provide some of the best education in the world. If you go to most wealthy White communities in the United States you'll find an abundance of MONTESSORI SCHOOLS that teach their students how to be creative thinkers and leaders in society, as opposed to the traditional education that they'd receive in a typical public school. Also, like most non-Black scientists, he fails to see (or atleast fails to mention it even if he sees it) the role RACE and RACISM plays in PURPOSELY DESTROYING the public educational system of the United States to PURPOSELY DUMB DOWN the majority of the population.....allowing only a gifted few to receieve a proper education. If people would notice, the United States had the best public educational system in the world RIGHT UP UNTIL late 50s where they were forced to integrate Black children and provide THEM with a decent education also. Then all of a sudden they started stripping most of the programs from the schools like: Wood shop auto shop swimming sowing home economics. music and band. Slowly over the decades as the enrollment of Black students increased, the amount of classes and programs in most public schools began to decrease....especially in the inner cities. Racism and the intent to deny Black children a decent education in America is the absolute MAIN cause for the deliberate dismantling of public education in the United States I also agree with Mel about differenciating between fact-based learning and concept-based learning as well as what she said about questioning authority. One of my biggest problems with academic and university trained professionals....versus those who learn skills on their own as Troy mentioned with computer programming.....is that most of what they "know" is THEORETICAL knowledge. In other words, they don't really KNOW it in the sense of experiencing or directly observing what they claim. All they're doing is parroting the information that was given to them by their professors in class. This provides an excellent opportunity for BRAINWASHING, SOCIAL ENGINEERING, and general MIS-INFORMATION to take root in society. All it takes is for a few "smart looking/sounding" people to come along promoting a THEORY that can't actually be proven....and by authority of their rank and title in academia most of the world will accept what they say as true. Now some of this information may be correct and some of it may not be....but I think a firm distinction should and eventually MUST be made between information that is obtained through actual experience and/or observation and information just "passed along" from teacher to pupil. One of the reasons poor White people voted for Trump in massive numbers is because most conservatives have come to realize that a SIMPLE LIE is much easier to understand than a COMPLICATED TRUTH. So they just make up lies that are easy for their base to understand and get their votes. I think we need a new educational system that promotes TRUE information that can easily be tested by everyone able to do so and clearly separate fact from fiction and PRACTICAL KNOWLEDGE from THEORETICAL KNOWLEDGE.

Troy 　 what I wrote would appear to be a contradiction to your because you reject the scientific meaning of race. THE scientific meaning? I didn't know there was an actual "scientific" definition. I'm familiar with the MERRIAM-WEBSTERS definitions: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/race 1 : any one of the groups that human beings can be divided into based on shared distinctive physical traits. But if there is a "scientific" meaning for race, I'd like to see it. Can you please provide it here, complete with links to the official publications/sources? 　 　 Yes, skin color is based upon one's genetics--but not race, because there is only one race. Yes, you have it human and race are synonymous. Well if both human and race are synonymous.....then how can there be only ONE race when there are BILLIONS of humans? If race = human then there are as many races as there are human beings according to your logic.

Del Yes, I read them. Was there something in my post that inferred I misunderstood something?

Troy What you describe as race are various forms of skin color, ethnicities nationalities, that are applied differently at different times across different cultures. It is a human construct with no basis in our genetics. Just because it's a human construct, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The Empire State building is a human construct also, but try ignoring it...lol. Now come on man, you just contradicted yourself in the same sentence.....lol. You said that what I'm talking about is in part based on various skin colors, but THEN turn around and say there is no genetic basis for it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't skin color based on GENES?

It's obviously about the money. I'm not getting in between Troy and Del's ongoing debate, but I put these "green groups" in the SAME category as these so-called "poverty programs" that are being funded by the federal government. And just like these non-profit housing, drugs, and social service organizations.....most of these environmental think tanks just provide more excuses to give White people jobs where they sit around and DO NOTHING. Here you have smart White people who've concocted schemes to suck billions of dollars to pay for "studies" and "research" and "preventive measures". I believe the environment is being polluted, but I doubt most of these scientists are SERIOUS about solving the problem. They are making too much money from things being just the way they are. These are nothing more than "jobs programs" for White people with degrees who can't or won't find jobs in corporate America.

Troy I can't prove that genetics that shows that there is only one human race. I have neither the equipment, knowledge, or time to prove any of this stuff. If this is the case, then how can you call MY position that there IS more than one race "wrong"? 　 You must rely on what others who are more knowledgeable tell you. .....or do the research and trust your own experience and observations. Which is what Black people should get into a habit of doing.

Actually YOUR stance on "race" is illogical. Knowing that race is a CATEGORY, logically speaking there MUST be more than one option. So for you to take the position that there is only ONE race....the human race. Is like saying that there is only ONE flavor of soda pop....the "soda pop" flavor. See my point? To say there is only ONE race....the human race....would be like claiming the words "race" and "human" are almost synonymous.

((Lol....who the hell is SHE yelling at?)) Cynique CAN YOU READ? IF YOU CAREFULLY READ MY LAST POST ON PART 1, I SAID THAT I DIDN'T AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH YOUR OPINION ABOUT INTELLIGENT DESIGN! WHAT I AM CALLING YOU WRONG ABOUT IS YOUR DRONING ON AND ON ABOUT ME BEING IN LOVE WITH WHITE MEN, Yes, I DID read that post. But I ALSO READ the other statements you made later: "Neil DeGrasse Tyson is not a white man; he is a premiere black scientist and he would challenge and even refute just about everything you imagine you know about science. " "BTW, Tyson and white scientists are in accord, so where does that leave you? And, indeed, he wouldn't bother arguing with you because he knows people like you who never let facts get in their way, can't be separated from their opinions. " Clearly in these statements you are calling my SCIENTIFIC BELIEFS wrong. So when you say: "No surprise that you are led wrong, because you are wrong and all of your verbal acobatics and distortions won't distract from the fact that, as usual, you don't know what you're talking about" How am I supposed to all of a sudden assume you're NOT talking about my scientific beliefs but are now talking about my exposing your love for White men? You need to establish CLEAR lines of demarcation in your statements instead of running everything together and then getting mad if someone can't figure it out.....lol. Troy Pioneer you demand absolute proof when someone disagrees with you but when someone asks you a simple question like who created your creator you say that it does not matter. No, I just ask for proof when someone says I'm absolultely WRONG. People can disagree about opinions, but people shouldn't disagree over established FACTS. So if I'm wrong about a fact I'd like to be corrected, but with PROOF. Now I'm not saying that asking questions about The Creator doesn't matter. But clearly it's a diversionary tactic used by many people who don't want to accept Creationism. It's a way of changing the subject or taking the focus away from the original claim. If you ask me who was the first American to start building cars, and I say Henry Ford. What does it matter who his parents were or where they came from? What does it matter what color his hair and eyes were? All of these questions are irrelevant to the original subject of discussion and will only take us off the path and have us rolling around in the weeds.....lol.

I actually had to go to a community social function on Thanks Giving and meet with some people, but later on a friend of mine came over and cooked dinner. But yesterday I had to go over to my cousin's house for some real "down home ghetto style" Thanks Giving food....lol. I won't go as far as to call it a "murderous day"....lol.... but the fact that so many Americans can enjoy a traditional Thanks Giving dinner in a nice home with family and friends while so many millions are locked up in jails, millions are homeless, millions are unemployed, and with millions of broken dysfunctional families...... It illustrates the great divide between the "2 Americas" today. I remember celebrating big Thanks Giving dinners with my extended family when I was a kid where my aunts, uncles, cousins, ect....all came together. Today, many of them are dead.....other's in jail....others destitute in and out of the street. Thanks Giving and Christmas are BEAUTIFUL days to spend time with your family and friends, but you must make sure the REST of your year is socially and financially stable enough to support these events. We need to focus on building a NEW reality for ourselves instead of trying to maintain outdated traditions that weren't established by or for us.

Cynique No surprise that you are led wrong, because you are wrong and all of your verbal acobatics and distortions won't distract from the fact that, as usual, you don't know what you're talking about. Well like I keep saying....if I'm wrong, then PROVE it. Just provide empirical (not hearsay) evidence and proof that what I'm saying is wrong. You are just pondering and wondering outloud....not providing concrete facts about the Universe and similar concepts. You have evaded every challenge i have put to you in regard to your unfounded accusations and declarations and just keep resorting to the same old repetitive litany. If you were the only choice, i would love white men, Now see... Why do you have to make strong emotional statements like that? Talking about if there were NO OTHER Black men on the planet.....besides me....you'd just go ahead and start loving some White men....lol. See, this PROVES that you disagree with me simply for the sake of being disagreeable. I hope everyone sees the anger and the hatred and which side it's coming from. I'd NEVER say that to YOU. I'd NEVER tell you that if there were no other Black women around....well....I might as well start loving some White women, lol. I'd wait and see where things went first.....THEN if things didn't work out....well.....I'd have little choice but to consider White women.....lol. but fortunately there are other black men around who are different from you. Thank goodness! Oh yeah.... I forgot, you love and admire HALF-Black men (like Obama and Kaepernick) ALMOST as much as you love and admire White men. (You obviously haven't read the last 2 posts on Part 1 of this thread. Troy is who you need to be trying to make your points with.) You obviously haven't read the FIRST post on Part 2 of this thread because I addressed Troy.

　 Cynique Being curious is not a aberration. It's a quest for knowledge Being curious and questing for knowledge isn't the problem, it's WHO you're RE-questing that knowledge FROM that leads me to believe that you are inlove with White men. ....either consciously or subconsciously. BTW, Tyson and white scientists are in accord, so where does that leave you? It leaves all of us in the same position because THEY aren't arguing with me. Like I said.....they WOULDN'T. Unlike you and Troy, they wouldn't challenge my OPINION unless they had EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE or PROOF that they could bring to make their case against it absolute. SMH. Nah sweetie don't do that.... Shaking your head too much may be what CAUSED the problem in the first place, lol. Grab a turkey leg and some dressing and go on over on the couch and rest yourself...lol.

Cynique You're obsessed and paranoid in this regard and come across as an unbalanced individual with a personality disorder. Seek help YOU are the one who's self-admittedly pondering. YOU are the one who is starting thread after thread asking questions. So YOU are the one who obviously needs "help".....lol. Neil DeGrasse Tyson is not a white man; he is a premiere black scientist and he would challenge and even refute just about everything you imagine you know about science No scientist worth their weight would dispute what I've said. Most of them would simply leave it alone because THEY are smart enough NOT to get into an argument they can't win.....lol. Those who do decide to touch on it would simply call it "inconclusive" because they knew they couldn't come up with any EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE/PROOF that actually contradicts what I'm saying.

Troy The dictions just describes how the roace is used it is not a scientific definition. Lol....huh??? It also describes how the science has evolved leading to the knowledge that race is purely a social construct. Marriage and the idea of "husbands" and "wives" are also social constructs. But they're also REALITY. Just because something is a social construct, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Wikipedia is not the best sources of information, but if you read the entire document, you will see the evolution of the word over time and across cultures. It also describes how the science has evolved leading to the knowledge that race is purely a social construct. There is no basis in our genetics to allow us to categorize us into "races." All of this information is in the document that YOU referenced Pioneer. It is amazing how people can read a document and come away with completely difference conclusions The only things I needed to come away with from both Wikipedia and Merriam-Webster's dictionary were definitions to support my position on multiple races....and I did just that. I've SHOWN you that the concept of race is a way to categorize humans. Now whether racial categories are SOCIAL constructs or GENETIC constructs are irrelevant. Categories are REAL. They do EXIST....whether you agree with them or not. Now that I've I've proven my case on the reality and existence of racial categories among human beings, perhaps we can get back to discussion the causes of poverty.....lol.

I don't celebrate ThanksGiving. It's just a day off for me. The same with Christmas. And it's been like that for over 20 years. I've actually considered petitions to force the banks and other public services to stay open and operate in my community on these so-called "holidays" because I don't want to be FORCED to observe a so-called "holy day" that I don't recognize as holier than any other. Problem was, I got more support from White people than Black people so I abandoned the effort.....for now, lol.

Hmmmmm............... I'm looking at the one with the tattoo on her shoulder. Perhaps someone can arrange for her to come on this site so that I may ask her a question....lol.

Cynique Stable" mind as in a stagnant mentality? No, stable mind as in not letting White racists influence your mind into confusion and disbelieving reality (what you actually see). White men can easily raise all kinds of doubts in your mind about the Universe and Who created it but if you notice -they don't give you actual answers to the questions they raise. 　 You don't know the origin of the universe. All you are doing is parroting the intelligent design theory, taking the easy way out. No one on in this thread does. None of the White men you like quoting and pondering the lame ass ideas of, do either. Yet that doesn't stop you from obsessing with them and pondering on every little quack theory they come up with. Just face it, you are in love with White men....lol. And your reference to schizophrenia has nothing to do with "uncommon" (rare) sense. I'm neither hearing voices in my head nor suffering from paranoia. Hallucination isn't the ONLY symptom of schizophrenia.....so are delusions or "twisted" thinking that can't be straightened out with reason. 　 Troy where do you think "The Supreme (most powerful) Being" came from? How did they come into existence? I don't know, but it is an IRRELEVANT question to this conversation. I made the statement that I believe the Universe is created. That statement is VALID until PROVEN true or false. Trying to figure out the ORIGINS of the ORIGINATOR is a mere diversion. Because while you demand proof to the contrary, your position can not be proven either. Then what is the argument? If you don't accept my opinion.....you don't accept it. But you can't call it "illogical" or "unreasonable" UNTIL you can disprove it as such. Which I don't believe you can....lol. Pioneer makes declarative statements on premises that are either; patently false (which I assert is illogical, or just dumb, as in the case of multiple races), or which can not be proven to be true (as in the case with there being a creator (implying an very powerful sentient entity) of the universe 　 Now all I've done is ask @Pioneer1 to respond to a question which I think will expose a flaw in his reasoning (perhaps that is why he is dodging it), and you are bogging this down in technicalities. The very theme of this thread was is based on a "theory" that can't be proven true. Yet you are perfectly willing to consider it if not accept it all together! You are willing to consider that we are images or mini-images of the Universe that can't be proven true......but NOT so willing to accept that there is a more powerful One Who CREATED that Universe! Del Troy how can an opinion be invalid? If it's coming from another Black man.....that's how. If it comes from an educated White man in glasses, even if it can't be proven....it's accepted.

Ofcourse it's my opinion....... But my opinion is valid UNTIL PROVEN otherwise. When I say Someone I mean a Being, The Supreme (most powerful) Being. But NOT a "person", as in a "human" being. I believe that the Universe was created by Supreme Intelligence and is being maintained by that same Supreme Intelligence. If anyone can prove OTHERWISE.....let him/her produce actual PROOF (not paragraph after paragraph of jaw jacking that leads to more questions and no answers...lol.).