Pioneer1

Cynique BTW, Nubian Fellow and Gibran, if you're reading this, i sure wish you would start posting again because i miss your interesting input. Hmmm, I wonder why Nubian Fellow doesn't post here much?????? It COULDN'T be the fact that he started a thread praising the natural beauty of Black women only to have BLACK WOMEN argue with him and challenge him point by point and THEN even declare in the very same thread how much they like the confidence and power of White men and see them as the BEST of all men! ......naw, it couldn't be that. It must be another reason, lol.

Black ,Police. Silence. ,.Amazes,Me.White. Police. ,Not. In. Fear. When Nazi ,Klan, Walk. Around. With. Guns.. Can, Black. Police. Shoot. At. Klan, Nazism Troops?. That's an EXCELLENT point Harry, and it's one that I've been wondering about for years now! What's going on with these BLACK police officers who just sit up and look at how their White colleagues are acting but do and say nothing about it? When will one of them whip out the cuffs and arrest one of their own? Back in the 60s or early 70s after the '67 riots there actually WAS a shoot-out between Black and White police in Detroit. It was in the parking lot of one of the precincts. I'm not sure of the details of what started it but apparently the conflict started inside the station between a group of Black officers and a group of White officers and spilled out into the parking lot after they were told to hit the streets and start their patrols. Apparently some of the White officers attempted to arrest and disarm one of the Black officers and the other Black officers stepped in and drew their guns and both groups started busting at eachother.

Troy Does anyone feel it is problematic for women to participate as a consumer or creator of erotica or pornography? For the most part....no; because the terms you used "consumer" and "creator" both imply willing participation. However if as a "creator" of pornography a woman began exploiting and abusing those working for her THEN I would have a problem with her as I would a man doing the same thing.

Cynique the first thing you resort to when you can't come up with a retort is to make references to your tormenter's sexual orientation I wouldn't consider Del a "tormentor". How can some despondent guy who babbles incoherently and is unable to answer basic questions "torment" anyone? I put him in the same category as you....more of a STALKER, lol.

Troy I look at who benefits from this situation. Black people don't benefit from this. The only people who benefit from this entire story being circulated in the news cycle are the REAL racists in MAGA hats because the next time they assault someone....the victim may be doubted. Cynique All i gotta say, is that knowing this may be the case, why do brothers put themselves in the position of being branded So do you suggest Black men just STOP having sex with anyone and just masturbate so as to never again be accused (justified or falsely) of sexual impropriety? Plus, when you seek to perpetuate the myth about penis size and testosterone overload, what can you expect when it comes to your being viewed as sexual predators. I would expect women who find these features attractive and wholistic (how ever many or few there are) to COME TO THE SUPPORT of men who allegedly fit this description when they are harassed and targeted. If women can shield and protect gay men they should do it for straight men too.

I forgot about this thread. I thought it was already established through "science" that matter was just a condensed form of energy.

Delano Let me know when you had enough. Do you realise I am insulting your ability er I mean your attempt to think (that's condescension wrapped around a metainsult) The only thing that doesn't go over your head is the subway. 　 Pioneer is fine, his skin and head are much thicker than mine. He can always let me know when he can't take it. But based on his Japanese lover story he can take it. Lol..... Maybe Troy and Cynique think your jokes are funny but I think they're little "limp wristed". They don't sound like something that comes from a brutha from The Bronx, but more like something inspired from reading a script from a fortune cookie.

Del Can you show me where i made that statement? No, because you didn't make them; you implied them. Context is important. I posted what feminist have to say about pornography both pro and con. And you were asked REPEATEDLY how many feminists do you actually know to accurately determine what "feminist" have to say about pornography or any other given subject. Yet you've REPEATEDLY failed to do so. I don't define or prescribe the position of groups of which i am not a member. Then you must be a feminist since you're claiming to speak for their position on the matter of pornography. Here's the definition. What would you say @Troy? The advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes. I don't see the word pornography or anything even RELATED within this definition. ......and BOY has this thread evolved, lol.

- Lol, man were you DRUNK while you were posting last night or something?????

Queen X You're more than welcome. To answer one of your questions, who can you trust? After finally learning to be honest with MYSELF, I've learned to trust myself.

Sounds like some sort of weird pornographic fantasy to me. Must be something you learned growing up in Hickville Illinois, lol. I'm wondering where is your favorite poster that you admittedly "like".....Mr. Carle? He's obviously following the discussions here and I'm sure he's seen this thread, so why he doesn't have an urge to come on here and dialog with us is beyond me. After all, you dedicated an entire thread TO him, he should be honored and pay it some respect.

Del Lol...... Man, do you have ANY other role besides side-line cheerleader and instigator??? You sound like a kid who stands to the side and eggs on a school yard fight.

Chev @Chevdove But I believe that you are 'one-sided' here. Mel is NOT White, and therefore, her assessment as a Black woman can absolutely be trusted! It doesn't matter whether or not she's White, if she makes statements like "the best man" is a White man that automatically makes her biased towards White men; therefor any criticizm of Black men from her can't be trusted as being accurate and fair. White Supremacy is real, and Black support of this issue is also real, but your comments based off of her experiences that she is sharing is what I am addressing. I can understand if you were to say, that her statements seem like 'this or that', but you are being judgmental of one person's experience. My OPINION (not judgment) isn't based simply on her experiences. I don't know what she experienced I can only go by what she's said. My opinion is based on WHAT SHE HAS SAID. She has made it clear that a White man is the BEST and KINDEST man. This is from her directly and is enough to prove that her motives for criticizing Black men should be questioned. So, to form your opinions on an individual is not going to help the reality of White Supremacy at all. Perhaps it may not CHANGE the reality...... But my identifying individuals who clearly see White people are supeior may help CLARIFY that reality so that people are not confused or decieved as to who is for White supremacy and who is against it. Like a live hot power line laying on the ground....... You may not be able to turn off the juice or move it out of the way, but if you put flairs and barriers around it to keep people from getting near it, that may save a lot of lives.  If every body Black only married Black people and if every body White only married White people, then that IMO would be a bigger problem. Interracial unions are beneficial to some extent but understanding where the line is drawn where it can be detrimential is the problem. But picking on an individual for choices they have taken is not going to solve the problem. I think it is important though, to here you views, but to attack someone you don't even know, does not help, but takes away from the conversation. That is what I believe. Simply marrying someone of another race isn't the problem. It's when comparing them to men of your own race you declare them BETTER....that's the problem. It's not enough to simply find someone they love and be content and happy; they often go out of their way to ATTACK their own race and often opposite sex of their own race out of anger or hatred. 　 　 I understand that, in the bigger scheme, this is a problem. But when some Black women have been abused by Black men, and then are treated better by other kinds of men, then you are not hearing that part of it. You are not mirrorring the situation properly. We as Black people came to be in America where the White man has gotten the upper hand. So, if Black men are conditioned to be 'the Buck' on the slaveyard and are rewarded for raping Black girls, then it may be that some Black women come to hate Black men and see the White master as the top. This issue lingers. I don't understand how you can't see this as part of the problem too. If a White man comes along and builds a relationship with a Black girl who has been abused by Black men, then how can you not see this dynamic. Again, you're trying to JUSTIFY and EXPLAIN AWAY why she believes that a White man is the best man instead of simply CONDEMNING it. 1. For the record, many Black men have also been AB-USED by Black women as well, but that's not an excuse to condemn Black women or declare White women as better and you won't catch me justifying it. 2. Much of what many of these women are calling "abuse" isn't really abuse at all but rather a misunderstanding. A misunderstanding of the nature of the opposite sex as well as a misunderstanding of gender roles. If a man physically harms you that's clearly abuse, but if gets loud and angry from time to time or stares at other women in lust from time to time....is THAT abuse? Or is that a man acting out his nature as a man? In my observations, most Latina and Arab women KNOW their men and KNOW many of them tend to be very "macho" as part of their culture so they have learned HOW to talk to them to bring out better results from them and get along as a community. Too many AfroAmerican women instead of developing this same type of knowledge and understanding about the men of THEIR community would rather sit up and let White American women tell them how they should deal with their men and what they should expect and THIS is what's leading to most of the problems between AfroAmerican men and women. .Listening to White women TELL you what you should expect from men even when they don't expect it from White men. We need OUR OWN value system. Troy AfroAmericans may make up less than 20% of the population, but when the nation is nearly 400 million strong....that's still a HUGE minority. Surely 50 million people could carve out enough enclaves even within the greater society to comfortably practice and promote any type of rites of passage or culture we devised without the least bit of disturbance from outside our community.....if that's what we REALLY desired. Jews make up much less of the population but as you can attest to in New York they have their own commuities, hospitals, malls, and other social institutions where their cultures and rites are practiced relatively undisturbed and with minimal influence. 　 Delano Can you PLEASE explain to me (us??) how feminism and non-compulsory pornography contradict eachother? How did you come to this conclusion?

Yeah..... That sounds about right, lol.

.....I knew you had a LIST, didn't I ? So I knew that much.

Don't even waste your time asking her. She doesn't RESPECT you enough to tell you the truth....lol.

The only reason Cynique is dismissing Dr. Welsing is because of her mentor Neely Fuller Jr. Neely Fuller Jr. is right there on the TOP of her list of Black men she loves to criticize....right up under Elijah Muhammad, lol. But I remember watching that debate years ago. She really pushed that idea of Black children being more creative. I miss Tony Browns Journal. He used to have POWERFUL indepth interviews where it would just be him and the guest going at it and exchanging. No music (except for the introduction) no fluff, no glamour, just straight logic and dialog. I loved it. Interesting................. I met Washington (Denzel's SON....not Denzel himself) briefly when he was a young man playing football at Morehouse when I was living in Atlanta years ago. Me and a woman were speaking to a group of young men and I was secretly wondering why were there women students at a men's college until it was explained to me later that what I was looking at WERE NOT women...lol. After we got through speaking John came up and dialoged with us a bit and left and when he walked away one of the faculty asked me did I know who that was. I said not really, and she told me he was Denzel's son. I didn't know he was an actor now.

S'neak The fact that you'd put up that picture mocking Black men who PROBABLY were mistreated and railroaded by an unjust system with a history and reputation of injustice toward Black men tells us all where YOUR head is. I mean...I ALREADY knew....lol. All you're doing is just telling EVERYONE ELSE. You find it FUNNY that those Black men were targeted and locked up.

Troy You are probably right and that is because we are not properly raised (no father in the home) and the culture has a huge hand in this. You're right that no father in the home is a problem, but it's only PART of the problem. Having a father in the home is still not good enough to raise a GOOD man if the father himself doesn't know what his responsibilities are. Infact, I'd argue that if that father is abusive (to his children or their mother), stupid, irresponsible, or just plain doesn't know his duties as a man...the children are better off with him NOT being in the home and for the mother (assuming she's decent) to raise the children single. Atleast FEWER bad habits will be instilled in them. Also men can be kind and sensitive AND strong and powerful. This is true BUT if you look at my words I said strength and power is what women RESPECT. Most women don't respect kindness and sensitivity. They may like it but there's a difference between what women LIKE and what they RESPECT. They LIKE the guy they can call up and dump their feelings on or go shopping with, but they RESPECT the man with the car, the money, and house they're staying in....lol. Another good example..... Cynique may LIKE Delano more, but she RESPECTS Pioneer much more, if you understand what I'm saying, lol. From what I've read, BEFORE slavery in most African cultures we didn't have these problems of what men should or shouldn't do because each society had "rites of passage" that clearly explained to them the RULES of manhood and what was expected of them. Today, boys are told one thing in school, another thing by their family, and see something totally different on television. 　 Del I also knew a feminist who liked to look at porn. I Asked her how that worked she said i dont know but it turns me on. Unless the women she's watching are being abused, how is a feminist who looks at porn contradictory? I could see contradiction if you said she was a "devout Muslim" or "born again Christian" as both doctrines are clearly against sex outside of certain boundaries.....but feminist ideology doesn't have moral absolutes like that.

Again........ Did he (Jussie) admit that he did it? Did any of those Nigerian brothers come on and say what happened? Why aren't THEY being interviewed or being given a chance to tell what happened on television? Why are so many people speaking FOR them about what they did instead of THEM speaking for themselves? See, this is the problem.....we're not hearing anything from THEM...all we're hearing from is from the police department and the media taling ABOUT them.

Chev Concerning what you and Troy were talking about and when boys get to be grown men..... There was a common saying when I was growing up and the older I get the more truth I see in it......Black men don't become grown and mentally mature until about 40. I don't know about other races of men, but I can tell you based on personal experiences as well as observation that MOST AfroAmerican men I know don't become fully mentally mature until they are in their 40s...and then they continue to get smarter afterwards until old age decline sets in. But in their 20s and even 30s, most aren't mentally mature and often engage in silly and reckless speech and behavior. Have you ever heard of a White man or principal getting on the mic and announcing that "No one is allowed to bring HAIR SPRAY to school? or, what about this; Do you hear White men speaking out against White women wearing hair weaves, and bufont--hairsprayed hair styles? I will answer too; No, they never would disrespect or control White women like that. No, I haven't. But White men are far more controling of White women than they are even of Black women. Look at these little religious communities like the Mormons and Amish where they love to go off into rural areas and build their own compounds where they can have complete control outside of the law. They make their women dress in old fashioned 1800's style clothing, don't let them wear make-up, and FORCE them to have babies over and over again in some of these communities. White men will often KILL White women for getting disobeying them or not following cultural expectations. Look at all the murder-suicides that happen in these mostly White communities when White men get angry and kill the entire family including the FAMILY DOG! How often do Black men do that. 　 　 　 LOL! Oh but still, will you please answer the question? Because if you are going to keep saying this about Mel, then I want to know your response to this one, because it would be 'WORSE' if you don't see or recognize the hiprocracy here. You did not see anything wrong with that Black man's behavior in a Black Church community dressed like she was going to a bar. But, on the other hand, Black men want to control Black women in what they wear and how they style their hair. Again, you're clouding and confusing the issue. My criticizm of Mel isn't about how she dresses. My issue with her was HER criticizm of Muhammad Ali and other Black men who attempt to tell Black women how to dress because I didn't feel that she.....having been (or still is?) inlove with a White man and seeing him as the best....was qualified to do so. Her motives couldn't be trusted. 　 When you feel that it is right to confront Black women who date White men as 'a blow to the Black cultural structure', then how can you sit there and tell me you don't see this kind of evil behavior of Black men, college boys or not, who 'rape' black girls as NOT being detrimental to the 'BLACK CAUSE'!? Come on I DO see it as detrimental, I never said it wasn't....it just wasn't the issue we were talking about. Again, you're bringing up all of these other issues to DROWN OUT the main issue I'm speaking on which is that fact that you have Black women who worship White men and think they are superior. 　 Troy I didn't word my previous statement correctly. Yes many Black women will call a man weak and broke, but only after getting angry with him to the point that she no longer holds back how she really feels. My point is most women tend to hold back their true feelings and don't tell men how they really feel or what they really want unless they're either drunk or in a fit of strong emotion. I'm sure you've experienced a woman you're with arguing with you over something minor like the trash or vacuuming and then out of nowhere she brings up something you said or did or the way you looked at her female friend or some other woman WEEKS ago....lol. You standing there like, "OK.....where the fuck did THAT come from????" It was in her mind and shewas bothered by it but she held it back and only in a fit of rage did she actually tell you the TRUTH about how she really felt! In my opinion if AfroAmerican women would be a more honest about how they REALLY feel from the jump and in an intelligent and respectful way CLEARLY tell AfroAmerican males (little boys included) what they really want and expect from them, it would clear up a lot of confusion and would actually help them grow up and be the ideal men they should be. If you want men who are strong, wealthy, and good in bed...then SAY THAT CLEARLY. And then boys will grow up focused on trying to BE that. Don't imitate White women or Asian women and go around telling boys that a good man is "sweet" and "kind" and "understanding" when you know good and dog-gone well that's not what YOU want in a man. It goes back to what I've said over and over again, AfroAmericans need to stop imitating White people and come up with our OWN values and morals that work for us. Black women don't respect "kind" and "sensitive"...they respect strength and should admit that.

Del How about we hold off going back and forth with eachother and wait on Mr. Carle to speak. I'm sure he's following this thread and probably this site. Troy Guys, what was it about K2 that ruffled your feathers so? Was it because he was new and came with guns blazing without showing you any deference? Not at all. I know some people (like Cynique...lol) get territorial when "new people" come on board and see them as a threat to their popularity but I actually enjoyed exchanging perspectives with him until we had some sort of disagreement and he insulted my Mother....and then my Father. Say what we will about White people but atleast when you get into conflicts with them there are certain things I simply haven't seen them do that Black people have, like talk about ya mama....lol. I'm not sure what it is about AfroAmericans that it seems they often go for the jugular with eachother.

Has he ADMITTED to lying? Has there been a confession?

Delano 　 He was clear about looking for and exploiting weakness. He doesn't respect or fear you enough to apologise. You are the only person he turned out on the page. He found that chink in your armour. Which is obvious because displays of strengths also illuminate weakness. Anyone who claims someone isn't their enemy simply because they "don't sound" like one has no business trying to lecture someone else about conflict strategy, weakness, and chinks in their armor....lol. Infact, aren't YOU the same one who threw a hissy fit about K Alexander's assuming you didn't go to college and suggesting that you needed to futher your education????? You are wrong. This is a public forum and that was a toxic display of Black self hatred. Which had a negative impact on everyone on the site. Man, you have the analytical skills of a John Deere lawn mower....lol. First of all, you accuse someone of being "wrong" about something they never said in the first place. Second, the ONLY one on this site sensitive enough for our conflict to have had a negative "impact" on was probably YOU.....because you're just THAT sensitive. Like a little kid who can't stand to see grown folks fighting and covers their ears as the run into the other room, lol. I though you said you were going to stop disputing with people and was going to take on a more observatory role.....but here you are attacking my posts and hashing up old conflicts out of the blue. Here I am asking Loren Carle a few questions and all of a sudden YOU jump out of the bushes and on the attack as if any challenge to him is a challenge to you....lol. "What's the matta boss....is dat negro givin' US a problem?"

Cynique Monique doesn't have to be a black nationalist to be pro-black. All she has to be is a black person who is anti-white when it comes to blacks being exploited. There is no need for her to be "anti-White" or anti- any other race or ethnic group. All she needs to do to be pro-Black; and she can do that simply by playing more dignified and respectable roles than what she played in Precious....which was disgraceful. Troy Cynique that is all true, but why is most of the stuff we get awarded for by the majority culture usually something negative. For the same reasons these violence-n-crime promoting rappers are awarded so many record deals and get so much attention......because desired behavior is rewarded in order to REINFORCE it! The racists IN the entertainment industry (not all those in the industry but the racists in it) who want to demonize AfroAmericans in they eye of the public will pay Black entertainers big money and offer them fame in exchange for playing demeaning roles and promoting violence and immorality.