Pioneer1

Lol....... I call you Mr. Reliable. Because you can always be counted on to take the sides of the women in almost any argument on almost any issue. But maybe you're on to something. Perhaps you seeing more Black women (attempting) to defend Black boys explains why so many Black men are unwilling or unable to collectively and PROPERLY defend Black women today. Look at the examples they had growing up.

Del and now Troy Well........ I'm not sure why you two felt the strong urge to intercede on Cynique's behalf and assist/help her make her point and disprove mine. She certainly doesn't NEED help or assistance defending herself but.....hey ((shrugs shoulders)). I'm not into gang-banging so as far as I'm concerned if this issue is so important to you three that you're willing to support eachother and ignore everything I say that MAY be correct just to dwell on what I say that MAY be incorrect and prove me wrong, I'd rather abandon it all together....because something tells me the REAL issue is much deeper than this particular subject.

The trachea is called BOTH an "airway" and "windpipe". It looks to me like the words air and wind are being used interchangeably for the same descriptive term. Just like MALE and MAN are different words with different meanings but are still often used interchangeably. I think the analogies I provided were pretty good because: 1. Wind is a TYPE of air......air that's moving. 2. Help is a TYPE of assistance.....assistance that improves quality or state of being. 3. Man is a TYPE of male.....a mature male.

Ohhhh... I'm sorry to hear that. Get better baby. Are you eating or drinking anything like milk, cheese, or chocolate?

Great points! Thank you for not just assisting me but actually HELPING me to prove my point that "help" and "assist" are different words with similar but still different meanings. It helps bolster my original point that most of those organizations Cynique mentioned did not actually HELP AfroAmericans but merely ASSISTED them in maintaining our people in a state of poverty and social dysfunction. But organizations like the UNIA and NOI recognized how critical the situation was and implemented programs to actually HELP improve our condition!

????? Didn't you just say: Lol...... If they have the same function what can an assistant do that a helper can't?

Just because words interchangeable doesn't mean they are the same or have the same definition. "Air" and "Wind" are also interchangeable....but they aren't the same. If you give a drug addict more drugs you aren't helping them, you're assisting them by ENABLING them.

Cynique so what is your point? My point WAS you WERE playing "three card molly" with your phony support of strong protective Black males.....until I called it out and exposed the hypocrisy. 　 You said, "As soon as i heard Malcolm's resonate voice on the video, telling it like it was in response to the shrill, high-pitched enunciations of Evie, the years fell away" So when I've said in the past that AfroAmerican men need to protect their community you and Mel claim I'm being hyperbolic and you even go as far as to demand some examples of my standing up for or protecting Black women. But when Malcolm says the very same thing I've been saying off and on on this site for years.....all of a sudden he's "telling it like it is" ((finger snap)). Gimme a break..... At one point you were even comparing the brother to your daddy and started reminiscing, lol. I felt I HAD to call you out on your bullshit, you do understand don't you? Now YOU, (meaning Cynique alone.....because I think Mel my still be trying to insult my intelligence by continuing to do it....lol) have come right out and admitted that you would be treating Malcolm the same way you're treating Troy, me, and Del -whenever he finds enough nerve to challenge you which is occasionally....lol. You'd be argumentative and nit-pickish finding every fault you can to criticize HIS strong stances and well defined social perspective -especially when it comes to gender relations in the AfroAmerican community- like you do ours. So atleast you're now finally admitting that you really WOULD treat him the same, but only because I forced you to.....lol. I take pride in bringing out the BEST in you Cynique....lol. Mel 　 And that’s what makes Malcolm X , the man.  He didn’t say muslim women he said BLACK Women ...it was unconditional protection. He may be THE man but he wouldn't be YOUR man unless you accepted and respected his authority as your protector. But be aware that his protection requires a level of submission on your part, lol. If you want UNCONDITIONAL protection, you don't need brother Malik Shabazz or any other Black man with sense. You need a damn ROTWIELER.....lol. I speak from experience. I met a black man to pick up tickets for an event. Never laid eyes on him before that moment... As we’re doing an exchange - a cab hit the curb and was heading for us on the sidewalk. Dude jumped in front of me ..to body block. The cab stopped on the curb and recovered, thank goodness. But that man put me in a safe place. That’s a man who protects a woman, any woman. That’s a Malcolm X kinda man. Are you serious? That's just a natural human....or atleast human male.....reaction. Do you seriously think that same man would escort you through the streets of SouthWest Atlanta, West End, or Bankhead with the same thoughtless courage? Yes! Now if he started talking that nonsense it would be a wrap. #ByeMalcolm . I have no patience for Islam and roman-catholicism. I know, you want to have your cake and eat it too. You want a damn fool.....lol. Someone willing to protect and put his life on the line for you unconditionally without YOU having to take any responsibility for your behavior whatsoever. And for the record........ A man need not be religious just to expect feminitity and proper behavior in public from the women in his community. Does she have to walk around covered from head to toe in a blanket with a hole in it for one eye to peak through? No. But I and most of the INTELLIGENT AfroAmerican men I know expect women to naturally carry themselves a certain way. Let's go beyond Black and White..... Go to downtown Atlanta and look at the East Asian, Indian, and Latina women you see walking around. Except for the Latinas....most of them are NOT Muslim or Catholic yet watch how THEY conduct themselves. Do you see them cussing every other word? Do you se them staring at eachother with evil and dirty looks as if they're waiting on any type of disrespect to give them an excuse to react violently? Do you see them cussing at their children, snatching them around, or letting them run in and out of the street unattended? See, these women ACT differently....which is why they're TREATED differently by their men! The gender roles you mentioned seeing in Dubai exist because of how BOTH the men and women behave, not just the men. You know good and dog-gone well the women in Dubai don't act like most of the women you see in Atlanta and other urban areas of the United States....yet you wanna sit up there and ask why don't the men treat them the same as the men in Dubai treat their women.

Mel What I admire about Malcolm X is he didn't say he wanted women to behave a certain way or follow his religion to receive protection. And here lays the problem. Because Elijah Muhammad most definately DID demand that women carry themselves a certain way because the most instrumental aspect of a woman's security and protection is HER and how she handles herself. But Malik didn't have to SAY women must carry and conduct themselves a certain way, it was already understood as COMMON SENSE at that time for women in the Nation of Islam and even most women in the AfroAmerican community. Things have changed dramatically since the time he gave that speech so while the women must still be protected the also must be RE-CIVILIZED (and the men too) to be taught how to properly conduct themselves. 　 No man with good sense will put his life on the line to protect a skank, or some loud angry verbally abusive woman who goes around dressing provocatively or starting fights with men or other women EXPECTING her man or the men in the community to come running to her rescue. There are no free rides. If you want a man to be a man then YOU have to be a lady and act like one and conduct yourself like one; which means you don't put yourself or your man in harms way by STARTING or ENCOURAGING situations that will put your life and safety in danger like dressing provocatively or hanging out in dangerous areas. If you want a man who will provide you with unconditional protection who will allow you to behave as you please, you need to hire a paid bodyguard because no man with good sense will do it.

Mel Oooh yes, you LOVE a good strong brother....when he's dead and gone. But if he were here right now you'd be fussing and arguing with him over the VERY SAME things you're arguing with the men in this thread over. If Malik was posting on this thread right now you and Cynique would both take turns: -"How dare you imply women need men to protect them!" -"Are you saying women aren't strong enough to.....blah blah blah" -"Black men can't even protect themselves from the police or eachother so why would I wait on a.......blah blah blah". So you can stop poking your little fist in the air talking about how on point Malcolm was because you KNOW if he were on here you'd be arguing with him and sounding JUST like Evie, lol. 　 　 Chev How are you, I haven't heard from you in a while. Lol.... Perhaps you were away because you were so influenced by our exchanges that it forced you to do further research on the true history and etymology of biblical stories and myths?

Again..... When you're ASSISTING people you could be helping them or merely ACCOMODATING them. If you're assisting them in the form of HELP then you're improving their condition. If you're assisting them in the form of ACCOMODATION then they remain in the same condition but you just make it a little more comfortable and tolerable without improvement. You can ASSIST someone in being a drug addict by giving them more drugs. You can ASSIST an alcoholic by handing them a bottle. But you aren't helping them; you're actually making matters worse. But if you're actually HELPING someone then you're improving their condition or moving them from one state to a higher state. And again.............. Most of those organization that Cynique mentioned don't actually HELP AfroAmericans. They merely ASSIST them to maintain their same socio-economic condition but tolerate it a little better with a few more toys and food. Marcus Garvey's UNIA and the Nation of Islam actually HELPED thousands if not millions of AfroAmericans improve their health, financial status, and even got them out of legal trouble and kept them out. Del You may be trying to ASSIST in clearing up this argument, but you're not HELPING it...lol.

Help is a FORM of assistance, but all assistance isn't helping. When you ASSIST someone you merely provide resources that make it easier or comfortable for them to do whatever they want or are trying to do. When you HELP someone you're providing resources to actually IMPROVE their condition. This is why welfare is called government ASSISTANCE instead of government HELP.

Mel and Cynique Lol @ all of this "praise" you two are heaping on Malcolm X. But something tells me that if he were on this site today you two would be quarrelling with HIM because of his views the same way you love to quarrel with Troy and myself over ours.

Del why do Black Women marry or date outside the race. Women's choices vary individually, but generally speaking I've found out that most women of color who date or marry White men do so in hopes that it will make things better for themselves and their children. It's certainly isn't because they find them sexier or think they're going to please them better in bed....which is some of what nature intended. In a society where the resources are being heavily manipulated and controled, most women don't have the option of dating and marrying simply for sexual gratification, they have to make all type of sacrifices to their comfort and dignity by going after whoever they think will be the best provider for them and their offspring. And believe it or not many AfroAmerican women even date and marry White men hoping that their children will come out lighter skinned with curly or wavy hair.....LOL. There's a difference between wealthy and rich. Bianca Jagger and Jackie O were wealthy. Trump and Madonna are rich. And some people have so much charisma they don't need money. There is definately a difference between wealth and richness. Wealth includes POWER and influence in your society. But I would still definately put Trump and Madonna in the "wealthy" category. 　 　 Mel By the way, any woman agreeing to give birth to man’s offspring upgrades that man- full stop Hmmm....... I understand what you're saying but I wouldnt' go as far as saying it "upgrades" the man. Upgrading is usually a more concrete and absolute term that is evident both internally and externally whether society itself can see the improvement. I would say having a man's baby or just being willing to sleep with a man improves his SELF ESTEEM and basically tells him "good job" in whatever he's doing. But if I understand the FOUNDATION of your point then not only do I agree but it's one that I've been telling a lot of young women for over a decade now who think they can "change" criminal minded and irresponsible men. Many young girls think that they can sleep with a man first and change him later through her love and encouragement. I tell them that it's just the oppposite...... Sleeping with a man is a way of REWARDING him and once a woman sleeps with a man in any condition he's in she's basically telling him "I love you just the way you are which is why I'm giving myself to you". If he was no-good, broke, and abusive when you met him and you rewarded him with all of the sex he wants.....why should he change his behavior and risk messing things up. 　 　 　 　 Troy Clearly that video has been heavily edited. I wonder what looks like uncut and in it's entirety. You can tell that the interview was going to be a hit piece when Carter started off with the phrases: "You NEED to answer" and " You CLAIM to be a leader".....lol. I wonder how far would a reporter (even a Fox News Reporter) would have gotten with Trump if they had started off with telling him you NEED to answer these questions,lol. He...like many people of that time...seriously underestimated the intellectual capabilities of Dr. Khalid Muhammad and thought he would be able to easily trap and manipulate him. Muhammad didn't just have a doctorate degree but he held degrees from both Yale AND Harvard and was a professor in California state. That man was literally "gifted"...a genius. If you followed the rap groups of the 80s and 90s like Public Enemy, Khalid Muhammad is the one giving the speech in the introduction of Public Enemy's "Night of the Living Baseheads" song that tells the tale of New York's crack epidemic in the 80s. BTW, if you think THAT interview was interesting, listen to an interview Khalid did with SEAN HANNITY that seems to have taken place sometime in the 80s early in Sean's career before he joined Fox News when he was just a small time radio host: https://youtu.be/Pm7_JqqUQWc

Apparently you don't know the difference between HELP and ASSISTANCE. The Urban League., most charitable organizations, and even the modern federal welfare program....don't HELP AfroAmericans. They merely ASSIST them. There's a difference.

Mel Black women are freakishly loyal to black men. So loyal it makes me throw up in my mouth a little Don't confuse loyalty with lack of options. Perhaps they were "loyal" because for centuries they didn't have much of a choice. From first contact up until about 30 years ago the VAST majority of sexual contact between Caucasian men and African women was by force and violence. Either by abuse and/or by straight up rape. Although they DID exist.....even during slavery....only a very small percentage of African female/Caucasian male sexual relationships were actually based on mutual love and understanding. Most Caucasian men didn't accept African women as "wife material" or even fully human in many cases. They primarily saw them as sexual objects and property. So for most of American history AfroAmerican women stayed with Black men because most of them didn't have the OPTION to leave. Things are different today where it appears many Caucasian men are taking every opportunity they can to score themselves a "Black chick"....lol. Many of them are not only marrying Black women, but paying their bills, taking care of their children from previous relationships, even buying property and moving them on to it. An intelligent person would ask WHY the change of heart all of sudden now? Why would you don so much love and respect on a person whom you declared "subhuman" just a few generations ago?

Mel I'm not wealthy (yet) so perhaps you may know more about the habits of wealthy Black men than I do. I'm not going to get into that argument. I said she was his housekeeper and I was wrong about that. So it turns out that she was actually a NANNY, not too much of a difference from a socio-economic point of view. And I checked out her parents and although they aren't broke the family certainly wasn't anywhere on Tiger's level of wealth and prestige. The point is......he married DOWN and not up, financially. What did he have to gain by marrying her? What sphere of influence or connections did she have that he wasn't privy to already? This had nothing to do with strategy, he just saw a woman he found attractive and ended up "getting got". I'm sure SHE was planning and being strategic though. Many Caucasian women who marry wealthy AfroAmerican men do. I'm sure her and her family are enjoying half of HIS wealth she managed to wrangle away from him.....as was probably planned in advance.

It seems more like something Pioneer would like or post, than you ((Looks over at Del.....stares....and shakes head))

Mel Is that what black women tell you? Or do you believe that because of the love you have for black women and you hope it’s the truth? I have an extremely high regard for the truth. My love for AfroAmerican women has little to no bearing on my acceptance of the truth. I already KNOW that many of them have more respect for and faith in Caucasian men than AfroAmerican men even if they told me otherwise, and I also know why. I wish this weren't so but I don't refuse to accept it. I learned early in life that in order to change reality you must first ACCEPT it as it really is. 　 and tiger didn’t marry no broke chick who wasn’t connected. It was my understanding that the first White wife he had that kept going upside his head and tried to run him over with the car that he bought her started off as his HOUSEKEEPER. Not exactly the cream of the crop in White society. Inquiring minds like mine always want to know - who wealthy folks are marrying. Why? Lol...trying to calculate your chances??? I think think he's got himself another White woman right now but like most AfroAmerican men Tiger is HIGHLY polygamous so you still might have a shot. Michael Jackson said "get on it"....lol.

Troy Oh, you remember Conrad Muhammad? It's my understanding that he's now a Christian minister and has reclaimed his old last name "Tillard"...lol. As was the case in Harlem, Watts, and Chicago the Nation of Islam was really big in Detroit too and you can still find older AfroAmerican men who will reminisce about the old days. But like you mentioned, another thing I like about them was they had a history of not going to the suburbs but going to the blackest and poorest parts of urban areas all over America and setting up thriving businesses. Kind of like Queen X, the teachings of the Nation of Islam in Detroit was instrumental in helping me make the transition from the common "nigga" on the street to a conscious Black man who wants the best for his people. I personally wish we had a non-religious organization that all could come into and get help when we need it along with a proper knowledge to improve ourselves and help our families. Perhaps the closest we came to that in the past was Marcus Garvey's UNIA. It was millions strong and was ecuminical not adhering to any particular religious or political affiliation.

Troy Not sure exactly what rubbed YOU the wrong way about her being married to a White man, but as for me....I have a double standard when it comes to interracial sexual relations. I respect people's individual freedom to sleep with whom they choose in most cases but I find it far more acceptable for an African man to have sex with a Caucasian woman than for an African woman to have sex with a Caucasian man because of the dangers involved. When men have sex with women it's usually a physical thing or a lustful thing but the "heart" is USUALLY not involved. Hell, many slave masters had sex with African women without showing the least bit of concern for them or their offspring. However most of the time when a woman VOLUNTARILY lays down with a man she has strong feelings for him and often times really loves him and will sell out her own family and community for his love....which makes AfroAmerican women more vulnerable to being used. I think most men instinctively know this which is why most groups are especially protective of their women while allowing their men to run around having sex with whoever. BTW....good looking out in the other thread, lol.

The man asked "WHO" is Black! He's talking about PEOPLE.....not things/inanimate objects! And you wonder why so many people question your comprehension skills, lol.

Mel A white woman expands a black man’s reach and sphere of influence in a way a working-class or middle-class black woman can’t. If they travel the ladder together - then they complement each other. If the black woman is already in the 1% then she can open other doors for the both of them. Marriage is still a business partnership. That holds some truth, but it's really not that deep.....trust me, lol. It's really quite simple. Most men are attracted to looks more so than women and since many AfroAmerican men unfortunately see Caucasian women as prettier or more beautiful....that's who they choose. Most of these poor and working class White women Tiger Woods and other wealthy AfroAmericans run around with can barely open a can of soup.....without slicing their thumb by accident.....let alone open up spheres of influence, lol. Most aren't thinking that deeply, they just want what looks good to them.

Can anyone name me any other organization (Black or White) in modern history that has a better record of cleaning up and reforming AfroAmericans and making them productive citizens? Not being religious ofcourse I don't agree with everything Minister Farrakhan or the Nation of Islam teaches however I agree with far more than I disagree with. One of the things I like about them is that they are PRACTICAL and believe in actually helping THEMSELVES instead of sitting around waiting on White people or Jesus to help them. This was expecially the case back in the 50s and 60s when they used to FORCE many of their members to stop working for Caucasians and demanded that they either work for another Muslim or start their own businesses. They were also quicker to use physical force to discipline their members or other Black people back in those days so in a sense FORCED AfroAmericans to straighten themselves up.

Lol @ how commonly so many AfroAmericans proudly refered to themselves as "negro" in those days. I actually think both of them had good points. As usual brother Malik was on point in his message of the Black man acquiring land and pooling his resources together to do for self instead of begging White people to allow him to be a part of their society. But I also think Evie had a good point about us demanding our rights as citizens and members of this society. As long as we're going to live IN this society (as opposed to leaving) we might as well have full citizenship with all of it's priviledges. As far as her being in an "interracial" relationship....... I found this picture of her with her husband: She's a little up in age in that photo but to me she looks MIXED RACE herself. She clearly has a lot of Caucasian ancestry whether it's immediate as a result of a Caucasian parent or more of a "Beyonce" type where there's a flood of it coming from way back. How hard is it for a Caucasian man to fall inlove with someone who damn near looks just like him? Also, I'm not sure if anyone else caught this but at the 21 minute mark the caller refered to Black people as "African Americans". I thought this was amazing for a show back in 1961 because I thought that term didn't come into existence until the early 80s! On a lighter note......she sounds cute as hell, lol. I'm glad I wasn't the one having to debate her because that very feminine voice would probably have modulated my intensity and and assertiveness, lol. 　 Del Ironically I used to wonder why successful Black Men married outside of the race. For the same reason so many successful Black men buy nice cars and big houses.... Because it's something many of them always WANTED to do but just didn't have the money or opportunity to do so....until they got it. Man makes the money....money doesn't make the man. The only thing money does is expose who you already are and reveal what you really believe.