Pioneer1

C G But Obama is a half white boy, and he has demonstrated as such. Ofcourse. This is why I generally don't refer to Obama as being the first "Black" President. However ANYONE can be of help to the Black community if they're forced or enticed to. A sound agenda backed by sheer tenacity could FORCE even White politicians to be better for Black people than many of the Blacks ones we have in office. Look at what Blacks in Chicago have been able to FORCE Rahm Emmanuel to do. Mel On top of what you said already.... I think one of the BIGGEST reasons that the wisdom of the elders aren't respected as much as Black youth is because they have to COMPETE with a lot of that garbage Black children are being taught in the educational system (not to mention the media). I know my parents and older relatives and older people in the community I knew growing up would tell me ONE thing, but when I went to school the White teachers would tell me something totally different that often times OPPOSED what I was told by Black elders. And because teachers (especially if they are White) are often revered as authority figures who can be counted on to give CORRECT information, what they say regardless as to whether it's true or not seems to carry more weight.

Lol....alright my brother.

　 C G Cynique is another one I'm working on. So I hope she doesn't end up "liking" you too much either.....lol. Infact, she's half-way civilized already. Either that, or doesn't have the energy to raise too much hell anymore. Once I get her and Sara tamed and under my firm control, I'm gonna drive them to a state where polygamy has been de-criminalized, find a cheap motel at a weekly rate, and make them both my common law wives....lol. You stole a bit of my thunder as I was actually going to point out many of the reasons you listed. A lot of young Black people have a subconscious feeling of disappointment and resentment toward older Blacks and especially those of the post Depression baby-boom era whom they felt left them a fucked up society to live in. A lot of young Black men hate older Black men as they remind them of their father who abandoned them. If they aren't being poisoned by their own mother from her negative descriptions of their father.....the seemingly indifferent behavior and concern so many Black man have toward their own children has inject hatred into the hearts of many young Black men for other Black men whom they can't trust. Also, through out history the elders have always maintained most of their respect by being able to pass along important wisdom and survival skills to the next generation. The young man respected the old man..not because of his strength...but because of what he could teach him as far as how to fight, how to get women, how to make money, ect... Many of the older generation of Black men not only DON'T have the knoweldge of how to secure these things for themselves let alone teach the younger men.....but in many cases those who CO know are actually COMPETING with the younger males for money and women. Which the younger generation of men often find frustrating and offensive. 　 I also do not understand why Black people vote democrat and do not make specific demands of them in specifically helping Black people! Jews do it! Gays do it! Muslims do it! Hispanics do it! White women do it! If democrats do not support those particular group's specific issues, those groups will not for democrats. When the few Blacks have made demands as a condition for a vote for Democrats, white racist democrats respond: "We cannot help just Blaaaacks. We have to help everybody!" Hence, with a foolish humanitarian outlook, Blacks give their votes away to the democrat party in hopes that the democrats' helping the "whole" will result in individual people, including Blacks, to benefit; and, again, Blacks get the shortest end of the stick. Shameful! Absolutely and utterly embarrassing! It "remarks" of low intelligence! It's interesting that you should say that because I had a similar exchange with Troy about Blacks not presenting Obama with an actual AGENDA during his first 90 days in office in this very thread: http://aalbc.com/tc/topic/3746-michael-eric-dyson-goes-off-on-president-obama/?page=1 I didn't say they should have present him with a bunch of goddam IDEAS and SUGGESTIONS..... I said we should have sat down amongs ourselves and formulated a well thought out AGENDA that outlines what we expect for him after helping to put him in as well as the CONSEQUENCES that would occur if we didn't see any effort on his part towards implementing them.. Infact, a portion of it should have been presented to him or whoever the potential nominee was before they even received the Democratic nomination. Perhaps the same should have been done for the Republicans also. Fredrick Douglass said the power concedes nothing without a demand. Even the older Civil Rights generation realized that they had to continually march, fight, and DEMAND justice and that the laws of the land be changed. Simply begging and crying and expressing one's disappointment over being ignored didn't work THEN and certainly doesn't work TODAY. Perhaps that's why the generation of Black youth in their teens and early twenties have taken back to the streets to raise hell and demand justice picking up whether their grand and great grandparents left off.

Wait for 'em..........because they're coming.....lol ((shakes head)) Cynique That was a detailed and touching response, but it doesn't TOUCH the actual question...lol. I still didn't see an answer as to why there seems to be less respect and appreciation for our elders TODAY than in the past. Or perhaps I'm wrong in assuming that you even feel this way. I know I do. I'm not talking about your rounds with members of this board (although it influenced the question) but society in general and the overall lack of reverence for the older generation whether it's in the form of assaulting seniors on the street, financial scams that target the elderly, or even politicians who unabashedly cut social security and medicare funding and other programs that toss thousands of seniors out on the street. It just seems like being and elder doesn't carry the same weight or reverence it did say even 30 years ago let alone 50.

Del Which one of my assumptions did I ignore? My position wasn't that intellectuals DID NOTHING. To the contrary, they did TOO MUCH...lol ....but of the wrong thing. My position was that highly educated intellectuals tend to over analyze things (too much thinking) and most of their "solutions" are convoluted and impractical. I never said ALL of them did or were, which is why I used the terms "tend to" and "most". Huey Newton agreed with you which is why he didn't put Angela David in charge to intellectual. So another great thunder agrees with you. Ofcourse. The mark of a good leader is to place people where their talents can be of best use to the movement. Huey WAS a real leader and he came straight up from the streets so he had social experience necessary to influence and motivate the masses of Black people from the streets. Unfortunately his drug use had influence over HIM.

Del Not sure who "Mohinder Gandhi" is/was, I couldn't find too much info on him. However with the notable exceptions of Booker T Washington and Dr King, the rest were great intellectuals sho 'nuff but were not very good leaders or organizers of the Black masses. Oh yes..... People like brother Cornel West can articulate the frustrations of Black people and the poor excellently! But aside from the two notable exceptions I mentioned (Washington and King), I doubt that the others you listed could mobilize and lead a street gang in the ghetto. That's not to diminish their intellectual talents. They were good at what they did. But they weren't "leaders" of the masses and their skills weren't effective enough to spark and maintain a mass movement among Black people. Even Booker T wasn't the most effective of leaders. He was an excellent educator with brilliant ideas, but it took Marcus Garvey to come and AMPLIFY his message of self-sufficiency and turn it into a movement.

(obviously anyone can comment) On more than one occasion you mentioned the lack of appreciation for those who are older. My question is WHY do you think there seems to be less respect or appreciation for the elders in society today? I have my opinions but I want to hear yours (and others) first.

Dr J Each person’s destiny is not a matter of chance; it’s a matter of choice. It’s determined by what we say, what we do, and whom we trust.” Quite a powerful message. A powerful quote indeed...... Who was the author?

Troy I understand a busy man like you probably had a long day, and need a way to relax but...PUT THE CHRONIC DOWN BRO...LOL!!! It's all good my brother. Thanx for making me read that OP about 7 or 8 times trying to figure out where I may have went wrong.....lol Edit how you see fit.

Troy Lol...damn. I thought the original post was about why so few minorities and especially Blacks were in positions of power? I

I don't mean to trivialize the historical role of White supremacy in maintaining so many Whites in power positions in society, however I must say..... From both my experiences and observations in the United States atleast, most Black people don't seem to WANT the responsibility that comes with being in authority whether it's at a national level or just typical low level employment. Oh don't get me wrong...we like TITLES: President, Mayor, Senator, Owner, Founder, ect.... But when it comes to doing the hard and often cold-blooded work that comes with being in serious positions of authority where you may have to fire people, piss people off, focus on coming up with new ideas, and put in extra hours of unpaid labor in order to see projects through to their completion...... Too many of our people are quick to roll their eyes and say "Fuck it" as they wave their hand off walking away. On most of the jobs I've been on I ran into Black folks who had been there years...decades...but wasn't manager and didn't want to be manager or supervisor. You see young White man...old White woman....come in and after a year or two they hop over the brother and make manager and instead of being angry a lot of our people are happy. "They came at me talking about some 'do you wanna be a Manager'...... Sheeeeyit....guuuuurl I told 'em haaaail naww I need my WEEKENDS free!" In most jobs I've been on since 16 as long as it paid more and offered more benefits....I could care less about the responsibility I've always wanted the MANAGEMENT position and I usually got it. But I had to reconcile with the fact that most of our people simply don't want it. I'm sure this nonchalant attitude is A FACTOR (certainly not the only one) for why so few Blacks are in power positions in America.

It took me years to learn there IS a such thing as thinking too much...... This is why most REAL movements tend to start from the streets, the people NEAR the very bottom of society. The very educated intellectual types tend to think too much and over analyze various strategies when it comes to solving societal problems. And even when they finish drinking their tea/lattes, shake hands, and come to the people to announce their "solutions".... they usually don't work because they aren't PRACTICAL. Most "solutions" arising from the intellectual classes are usually THEORETICAL and only look good on paper. It's the same in the workforce of today. There is a very high turnover rate in the modern workforce in the West because there's a gaping and growing separation between the middle class college educated executives and administrators who make many of the decisions and the inadequately educated and often unhealthy poor workers who attemp unsuccessfuly to meet their unrealistic expectations. This separation isn't just economic, it's social, and even ethical.

Celes quickly married anything pale white and relied upon White Supremacy to claim the confused offsprings were "black" (the idea that one drop of black makes you black lie comes from - The Doctrine of White Supremacy), embraced white liberal attitudes that "men were no longer necessary in the family" and that women, through feminism, could raise children alone, that Black Americans should be more concerned about social issues at large and less concerned about Black America's issues, and implied that Black America's economic situation would improve if we only embraced white liberal democrats and bashed white conservative republicans (in which studies show that white liberal democrats are equally as racist in employing African-Americans, particularly Black American men! Not only that, white liberal democrats are also notorious for attempting to control the thinking of Black Americans in the white liberal racist democrat stating "You are Black" should a Black American disagree theologically with gay marriage, abortion or any other white racist liberal movement). The older Black generation also informed us that anyone with a drop of black must be dumped on the Black community and be an issue for Black America to embrace all rejects by different cultures, which instantly made Black America's respectability further decrease substantially in the world, as no culture has or will ever respect any culture that has an open-door policy to all, particularly rejects or trash (which is why cultures, countries, organizations and institutions tend to more highly respected when these entities exercise exclusivity. 　 Those were very insightful comments concerning the confusion so many AfroAmericans have about race. I've been saying for quite some time now that the "one drop" rule is not only inaccurate, but is down right insulting and demeaning to the Black race by forcing every rejected one into our ranks while keeping thier own ranks "pure". Infact, I touched on it not too long ago in these threads: http://aalbc.com/tc/topic/3667-race-ethnicity-nationality/ http://aalbc.com/tc/topic/3642-the-myth-of-race-and-the-evolution-of-skin-color/ This is why I use the term "AfroAmerican" for our particular ethnic group in the United State regardless of phenotype. But I'll use the term "Black" specifically for those AfroAmericans with a preponderance of African ancestry that clearly manifests in their physical characteristics.

Most people in southern Illinois, southern Indiana, and Missouri also have strong "southern" dialects. They don't say "AS-PER-IN" they say "AS-PERN". They don't say "WASH".....they say "WARRSH"

Yes, places like Missouri and Illinois are part of the "Ozarks" area which has a very strong backwoods rural tradition. Parts of Pennsylvania and Ohio have that same tradition as large segments of it are part of the Appalachia Mountain range. Hillbillies for real. Culture and education does have a lot to do with it, but rural people who live far away from large cosmopolitan cities tend to be narrow or closed minded, fearful of anything and anyone "different", and conservative in their thinking whether it's down south, up north, or even out west where you have a lot of very racist conservatives living in the rural mountainous parts of the so-called liberal Pacific Northwest. I observed more racism in the southern Midwestern region in places like Missouri and Nebraska than I had in the deep southern states of Alabama and Mississippi.

Sara I'd like to thank you for all that information you gave me! I already knew much of it. And as for the information that I didn't know.....I'm still not too sure what I'm gonna do with it. However, I'd like to thank you for it. As for your question, I'm not sure who the man is but judging from his uniform I'm guessing he was one of the key figures of the Mexican Revolution.

Dr J Once again we have evidence that skin color, not money, is the key to survival Please excuse the ignorace but.... Unless the ozone layer is depleted, how is skin color any key to survival in this world?

The California Endowment’s 10-year Building Healthy Communities initiative seeks to bring equity to all neighborhoods so that all Californians can enjoy the benefits of healthy communities and live long and productive lives. Look at the words: long AND PRODUCTIVE lives. I'm not sure about this organization, but most of those holding power in California don't want you living a long life if you're not producing goods and services for corporate America. And this is the primary reason why the United States is the only industrialized without some sort of Univeral healthcare program for all of it's citizens and this is part of the extreme inequality the video alluded to. It's the carrot on the stick held out infront of the horse (worker) to keep it moving forward. Healthcare is treated like a privaledge or reward only for those who either ARE working or those who have worn themselves out FROM working. So it's tied to employment and retirement. But I personally believe when it comes to states like California and Texas, they're going to have to get the boarders secured and their illegal population under some sort of control or the strain they would put on a Universal Healthcare system may break it. I've talked to many people who lived in Cali back before th 80s who said that much of it's "liberalism" started to diminished when so many illegal immigrant started taking advantage of it's many social programs.

Well, I'm waiting! Lol.... When I was younger I was at the mall one day and an older woman told me to never keep a lady waiting. I smiled at her, grabbed my crotch, and asked her had she ever have anything WORTH waiting for???

Dr J let's travel this road most are interested....we want change.... Most people want CHANGE, but most people don't want to do the work in coming up with and implimenting the solutions. This demands lot of careful thinking, disposable time, and patience as well as courage....a combination most people don't come equipped with. Troy There has been a lot of press lately on the rise in suicides over that past 20 years. I believe the largest increase is among middle aged white men. During the same period the icde rates for Black men has actually gone down. Some feel that the increase in white suicide is a reaction to the loss of white privilege. While this is devastating to white folks reality, this is par for the course for Black folks--arguably an improvement. I came across those articles a few days ago. I'm not sure how Black men compare with other demographics but I DO believe that a lot more Black men are suicidal than the numbers probably lead us to believe. I believe a lot of these police shootings are actually "suicide by cop" from hopless brothers purposefully putting themselves in fatal situations with the law. Del I'm going to seriously consider to begin to looking outside the US I echo Sara's sentiments.....don't go bro. We need more brothers like you to stay here and as Lauryn Hill would say help "reverse the hypnosis" Besides, CD Burns doesn't have his passport so if something goes down, somebody has to stay here with our brother......lol. Mel The family structure that would "win" out, if it was necessary for family to have a main structure, would be "community". Living in close-knit communities is the one structure that allowed us to grow a "healthy" civilization for the last 3 millennia. We've been moving away from that structure and we're suffering. That's exactly what I'm talking about....mini-communities in the form of group families. Say a group of about 4 men and 5 women get together and form a unit, an actual "entity" in and of itself made up of individual members but not reliant on any one of them. They have children in that group and that group helps to raise the children. As the children grow up some members leave that group, others join. But this acts as a more stable environment because it pretty much secures a feminine and masculine presence, financial support, a home, and other necessities for the well being of children. Atleast more so than the nuclear or single parent family structure would. Plus it works better for the adults involved by not putting too much pressure on one individual to be the primary bread-winner, disciplinarian, or homemaker.

But NOT thinking can be quite costly....in time, money, and even your freedom. There are a lot of impulsive men and women in prision who made moves without thinking them out carefully. However I've come to believe that people who sit around and think "too much" are often to stagnant and inactive.

Sara Well, since I ain't skeered o' you, I ain't acarin' 'bout yo "good" side so will say what I want! Well...... Since you ain't scare......I'm sorry. Might as well apologize to you since intimidation didn't work....lol.

I understand the demographics and population distribution of states like New York and Pennsylvania. What gets me is how so many people born and raised in Northern States around big eastcoast cosmopolitan cities like New York and Philadelphia can STILL have such conserative right-wing and in many cases "red neck" political and social views like I found in Pennsylvania. I think I saw more Confederate flags driving around mid-Pennyslvania than I saw all over the south. Pennsylvania produced Taylor Swift who does a lot of country music. Why would a girl born and raised in a mid-Atlantic state promote "country"? How can people just a few miles away have views so different from their urban counterparts. You find the same thing in Illinois with people from Southern, Central and even parts of Northern Illinois having vastly different political and social beliefs than those in the Chicago area. Something is going on around the nation that is driving the more rural populations outside of the cities to be of similar mindsets...I believe it's TALK RADIO.

Sara Euuuu.... somebody don't like it when others don't take their insults lying down.... and fling 'em right back at'em! That's right. Standing up to bullies don't always work, sometimes it gets you in MORE trouble with them....lol. Sometimes it's best to just agree with them and do as they say to stay on their good side....lol.

Sara "I found definitions of both that I find plausible, to wit: http://www.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_ghost_and_spirits " Sad. Just sad. Well, I can't say the person who extrapolated their definition of ghosts and spirits is WRONG. We are human beings trying to use the very young and very limited English language to describe ANCIENT spititual concepts that often go beyond our underdstanding. Spirit originally meant "breath" so because of this I choose to keep the world "spirit" associated with the life-force or chi...or the individual rather than their actual essence.