Pioneer1 Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 race noun (PEOPLE) C1 [ C ] one of the main groups to which people are often considered to belong, based on physical characteristics that they are perceived to share such as skin color, eye shape, etc.: [ U ] the idea that people can be divided into different groups based on physical characteristics that they are perceived to share such as skin color, eye shape, etc., or the dividing of people in this way: RACE | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary -Race and racial categories exist and this has been established.
Troy Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 Note the use of the words "perceived to share" and "the idea that people can be divided" Obviously the "idea" of race exists. The point is that just that and idea without basis in science. As a result, it is subject to human whim. 1
Pioneer1 Posted June 8 Author Report Posted June 8 6 minutes ago, Troy said: The point is that just that and idea without basis in science. As a result, it is subject to human whim. That's not THE point....that's A point....that you and frankser like to focus on. Since you can no longer say that race or different races "don't exist"....because I've provided the clear definition that they do as well as multiple scientific articles proving that they do and are accepted...now yall resort to simply calling it a "social construct" not based in science. You can call it a "social construct" all day long. I'll give you that. But it still exists....and that's MY point.
Pioneer1 Posted June 8 Author Report Posted June 8 8 minutes ago, Troy said: @Pioneer1, is Homer Plessy a white or Black man? Neither one. He's BEEN expired. .....come on bro, go get a late pass....lol.
Troy Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 Here you go again dodging questions @Pioneer1 The fact of the matter is that you would consider Homer a white man. The Federal government considered him a Black man. The ruling of the SCOTUS is not more irrational than yours.
ProfD Posted June 9 Report Posted June 9 5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: You can call it a "social construct" all day long. I'll give you that. But it still exists....and that's MY point. Your point was made all along to the extent that race and racial classifications have been defined. Race exists because we accept and use it to classify ourselves. The funny thing is mostly Black and white people identify themselves by color. Every now and then, I'll hear someone refer to themselves as brown. I never hear someone refer to themselves as red or yellow. Of course, many folks will claim their nationality and/or ethnicity as defined too. 1
Pioneer1 Posted June 9 Author Report Posted June 9 Troy The fact of the matter is that you would consider Homer a white man. Well, if THIS is Homer Plessy....then he IS a White man, regardless as to what he was "classified" as or "called". Fuck THEIR opinions and judgements, I go by nature and sight. ProfD Your point was made all along to the extent that race and racial classifications have been defined. Thank you! I thought the point was quite obvious, especially when I'm constantly posting dictionary definitions over and over again and they're being ignored...lol. Race exists because we accept and use it to classify ourselves. The funny thing is mostly Black and white people identify themselves by color. And I'm glad we do. White people may use it as a way to separate themselves from us and claim their superiority but WE can use it to unite ourselves and distinguish ourselves so that we can recognize eachother and rally around this. How many times have you went into a mostly or nearly all White area and LOOKED for another Black person to "relate" to just to feel a little more safe or comfortable. Yall make eye contact or even say "whaddup" and give a little head nod just to acknowledge eachother. The baddest and most stuck up sista in the world...if there are NO other Black folks around...will often give you extra eye contact and gravitate near you for social protection out of instinct, lol. People tend to naturally unite with and gravitate with those they look like.
ProfD Posted June 9 Report Posted June 9 8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Thank you! I thought the point was quite obvious, especially when I'm constantly posting dictionary definitions over and over again and they're being ignored...lol. The definition of race and racial classification has been around for a few hundred years now. The sticking point in the debate you're having with others is the difference between how race has been defined and scientific reality (genetic). 8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Race exists because we accept and use it to classify ourselves. The funny thing is mostly Black and white people identify themselves by color. And I'm glad we do. White people may use it as a way to separate themselves from us and claim their superiority but WE can use it to unite ourselves and distinguish ourselves so that we can recognize eachother and rally around this. Right. This is why I'm perfectly fine with tribes as brotha @richardmurray calls them i.e. people grouping themselves by race, ethnicity, nationality, etc. A very long time ago, white folks decided they were going to dominate the planet. They created the system of racism white supremacy. The system has been used against Black people in one way or another for 100s of years. 1
Troy Posted June 9 Report Posted June 9 8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Well, if THIS is Homer Plessy....then he IS a White man, regardless as to what he was "classified" as or "called". Fuck THEIR opinions and judgements, I go by nature and sight. Yeah, but they are the ones who created the racial categories that you hold onto so tightly. You reject some of the absurdity but accept parts of it. 8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The baddest and most stuck up sista in the world...if there are NO other Black folks around...will often give you extra eye contact and gravitate near you for social protection out of instinct, lol. These are just your ideas and have nothing to do with race. 16 minutes ago, ProfD said: A very long time ago, white folks decided they were going to dominate the planet. They created the system of racism white supremacy. right, but we support this buy into their scheme by continuing to buy into the unfounded idea.
ProfD Posted June 9 Report Posted June 9 11 minutes ago, Troy said: right, but we support this buy into their scheme by continuing to buy into the unfounded idea. The scheme they came up with 100s of years ago has been an ongoing *reality* with which Black folks and others have to do deal. Surely, Black folks could bury their heads in the sand and pretend the unfounded idea doesn't exist. I don't believe that will do us any good either. There is only one reason that Black folks are on the lowest rung of the social ladder. It starts with race.
Pioneer1 Posted June 9 Author Report Posted June 9 ProfD The sticking point in the debate you're having with others is the difference between how race has been defined and scientific reality (genetic). They MADE that their argument when I left them with no choice BUT to accept multiple races as a socially accepted reality...lol. The system has been used against Black people in one way or another for 100s of years. Facts. Denying who we are IN that system...or atleast what we're labeled as...isn't going to dismantle it; any more than denying the fact that a person is lactose intolerant will stop them from farting after a glass of milk...lol. Deny it all you want.....lol...keep drinking it and see what happens. Troy Yeah, but they are the ones who created the racial categories that you hold onto so tightly. A lot of it comes from the fact that they were the ones who went around exploring and meddling in other's affairs so they were EXPOSED to different races. A lot of Native Americans ONLY knew about Native Americans, so there was no need for them to come up with the concept of "race". A lot of Africans ONLY knew about other Africans, so there was no need for them to come up with the concept of "race" either. When White people went around the globe seeing different people who didn't look like them....or eachother...they came up with a way to classify them into groups. right, but we support this buy into their scheme by continuing to buy into the unfounded idea. What's the viable alternative?
ProfD Posted June 10 Report Posted June 10 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Denying who we are IN that system...or atleast what we're labeled as...isn't going to dismantle it; any more than denying the fact that a person is lactose intolerant will stop them from farting after a glass of milk...lol. Deny it all you want.....lol...keep drinking it and see what happens. Even worse when that fart turns into a messy accident called a shart. 1
Troy Posted June 10 Report Posted June 10 5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: A lot of Africans ONLY knew about other Africans, so there was no need for them to come up with the concept of "race" either. this is simply historically, inaccurate, white people and Black people and Asian people were trading with each other long before the concept of race was invented. 5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: What's the viable alternative? there are 1 million ways to group people we can do it on religion, geography, family, ethnicity whatever. Why the preoccupation with lumping people into different categories anyway? Do you (anybody) believe that racial differences give rise to differences and characteristics like in intelligence? 8 hours ago, ProfD said: There is only one reason that Black folks are on the lowest rung of the social ladder. Who says Black people are on the lowest rung on the social ladder? Where does that come from?
ProfD Posted June 10 Report Posted June 10 1 hour ago, Troy said: Who says Black people are on the lowest rung on the social ladder? Where does that come from? Take it with a grain of hyperbole. Even if white folks don't mention race they're still cognizant of it. That's why they don't want certain groups of people in their countries, neighborhoods, companies, organizations, schools, etc.
Troy Posted June 10 Report Posted June 10 7 hours ago, ProfD said: That's why they don't want certain groups of people in their countries, neighborhoods, companies, organizations, schools, etc. yes, and many of those people were other white people including European Jews, Italians, Irish, … Intellectually even Pioneer knows these, so-called white people weren’t even considered white When large numbers of them came to this country.
ProfD Posted June 10 Report Posted June 10 39 minutes ago, Troy said: yes, and many of those people were other white people including European Jews, Italians, Irish, … Intellectually even Pioneer knows these, so-called white people weren’t even considered white When large numbers of them came to this country. Historically, we also know those same white people went from subdividing by ethnicity to considering themselves white for the purpose of US census and consolidation of power. They still had and have their white ethnic enclaves all over the country. Instead of keeping each other out, they discriminate against Black folks and other non-whites. To this day, there are policies in place that prevent Black folks from moving into certain places. There's no policy to keep white folks regardless of ethnicity or socioeconomic status from moving to any place they can afford in this country. A hillbilly from Western Virginia can clean himself up and move into the most affluent part of this country. No questions asked, shade, judgement or cross burning in his front yard. Black folks pretending that race and racism doesn't exist or trying to ignore it has been a coping mechanism in the prison of white supremacy for a long time.
frankster Posted June 10 Report Posted June 10 On 6/8/2025 at 4:42 PM, Pioneer1 said: race noun (PEOPLE) C1 [ C ] one of the main groups to which people are often considered to belong, based on physical characteristics that they are perceived to share such as skin color, eye shape, etc.: [ U ] the idea that people can be divided into different groups based on physical characteristics that they are perceived to share such as skin color, eye shape, etc., or the dividing of people in this way: RACE | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary -Race and racial categories exist and this has been established. Why leave out the following that further defines the word Race....no mention is made of Biology or Genetics. Race only exist as a Social and or Political Construct Invention Convention or Agreement.... a group of people who share the same language, history, characteristics, etc.: The British are an island race. any social group into which humans can be divided according to perceived similarities in their physical characteristics: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/race
Pioneer1 Posted June 11 Author Report Posted June 11 Troy this is simply historically, inaccurate, white people and Black people and Asian people were trading with each other long before the concept of race was invented. So when I said "A lot of Africans ONLY knew about other Africans," This...to you...is " simply historically inaccurate"??? So all Africans knew about other races of people, I guess??? None of them were isolated to the point that they didn't see Europeans, Asians, or Arabs, I guess??? there are 1 million ways to group people we can do it on religion, geography, family, ethnicity whatever. And it's often done. Why the preoccupation with lumping people into different categories anyway? For the same reason FOOD is lumped into different categories. CARS are lumped into different categories. FLOWERS are lumped into different categories. SEASONS are lumped into different categories. If we we didn't have any categories for the seasons and just called everything "weather"??? What time of the year is this? "Ah nigga you already know what it is! It's WEATHER TIME !!!" ....lol. People have analytical minds and like categorizing things for accuracy and convenience. Do you (anybody) believe that racial differences give rise to differences and characteristics like in intelligence? No. frankster Why leave out the following that further defines the word Race....no mention is made of Biology or Genetics. Quote any social group into which humans can be divided according to perceived similarities in their physical characteristics ....because biology and genetics doesn't HAVE to be mentioned by name. It's IMPLIED when it says people can be grouped by PHYSICAL characteristics. PHYSICAL TRAITS fall under biology and genetics because skin color, hair texture, etc....all a product of the genes.
frankster Posted June 12 Report Posted June 12 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Why leave out the following that further defines the word Race....no mention is made of Biology or Genetics. ....because biology and genetics doesn't HAVE to be mentioned by name. It's IMPLIED when it says people can be grouped by PHYSICAL characteristics. PHYSICAL TRAITS fall under biology and genetics because skin color, hair texture, etc....all a product of the genes. Not true it specifically mentions ....any social group into which humans can be divided according to perceived similarities in their physical characteristics: The dictionary even gave you an example....The British are an island race.
Troy Posted June 14 Report Posted June 14 On 6/9/2025 at 1:38 AM, Pioneer1 said: but WE can use it to unite ourselves and distinguish ourselves so that we can recognize eachother and rally around this. how can this happen when you summarily decide to boot Black people from the so-called race because you don’t like their skin color. On 6/10/2025 at 5:49 AM, ProfD said: Black folks pretending that race and racism doesn't exist again, here you go confusing the two words, race and racism are too completely different things. Racism obviously exists. In fact people who think like you perpetuate it. On 6/9/2025 at 10:11 AM, ProfD said: A very long time ago, white folks decided they were going to dominate the planet. They created the system of racism white supremacy. here too, grouping an entire people together based upon their skin color, then assigning them responsibility for the activities of a few is what this whole notion of racism has created. Most white people did not own slaves. Indeed, the standard of living of white people was lowered because of the institution of slavery, wealthy white people who were a minority created the system of white racism to enrich themselves. The white masses brought into the system because they were diluted and were striving to be wealthy. Even Black people brought into this with colorism the brown bag test, skin lightning creams… On 6/11/2025 at 3:15 PM, Pioneer1 said: For the same reason FOOD is lumped into different categories. CARS are lumped into different categories. you said that you do not believe bumping people into different racial buckets does not imply differences in intelligence. So what difference is are inherent to these groups that you’ve created in your mind? So what is the purpose of the racial buckets that you’ve created? What are the distinguishing factors that make the people different? Is it just skin color? Again, America’s definition of black is different than yours because you don’t like to put light skinned people in the black category.
ProfD Posted June 14 Report Posted June 14 5 minutes ago, Troy said: again, here you go confusing the two words, race and racism are too completely different things. Racism obviously exists. In fact people who think like you perpetuate it. No confusion. Racism cannot exist without race. Racism is the subjugation of people based on their skin color (race). 5 minutes ago, Troy said: here too, grouping an entire people together based upon their skin color, then assigning them responsibility for the activities of a few is what this whole notion of racism has created. Yep. All white people are guilty of maintaining the system of racism white supremacy. White folks don't pick and choose which Black folks to discriminate against. 5 minutes ago, Troy said: Most white people did not own slaves. Indeed, the standard of living of white people was lowered because of the institution of slavery, wealthy white people who were a minority created the system of white racism to enrich themselves. The white masses brought into the system because they were diluted and were striving to be wealthy. That didn't stop white folks from benefitting from the institution of slavery directly or indirectly. Same thing goes for the system of racism white supremacy. White folks have no desire or incentive to dismantle it because their white privileges are attached to it. 5 minutes ago, Troy said: Even Black people brought into this with colorism the brown bag test, skin lightning creams… Another demoralizing aspect of racism is that it conditions many people to h8te themselves. That's why, as race is constructed, Black people have do whatever it takes to protect themselves from the system of racism white supremacy. One aspect of the next 3.5 years under the current administration is the reinforcement of white power. That way, any Black people who are confused about race will learn 1) what racism white supremacy is and 2) how it operates. RIP Mr. Neely Fuller Jr. 1
Chevdove Posted June 14 Report Posted June 14 On 6/8/2025 at 4:58 PM, Pioneer1 said: Since you can no longer say that race or different races "don't exist"....because I've provided the clear definition that they do as well as multiple scientific articles proving that they do and are accepted...now yall resort to simply calling it a "social construct" not based in science. Yes, whether it is defined as a social construct or not, it is still 'partially' based on science and that is the problem in that it is 'partially' based on science. On 6/9/2025 at 1:11 PM, ProfD said: The sticking point in the debate you're having with others is the difference between how race has been defined and scientific reality (genetic). Exactly!
Chevdove Posted June 15 Report Posted June 15 On 6/10/2025 at 8:49 AM, ProfD said: Black folks pretending that race and racism doesn't exist or trying to ignore it has been a coping mechanism in the prison of white supremacy for a long time. Depressing
Pioneer1 Posted June 15 Author Report Posted June 15 frankster Not true it specifically mentions ....any social group into which humans can be divided according to perceived similarities in their physical characteristics: Ok.... So how does this make MY statement "not true" in your opinion? Troy how can this happen when you summarily decide to boot Black people from the so-called race because you don’t like their skin color. Who does this? again, here you go confusing the two words, race and racism are too completely different things. Racism obviously exists. Racism exists because OF racial differences. If there were no racial differences, racism itself wouldn't exist because it would have no basis. you said that you do not believe bumping people into different racial buckets does not imply differences in intelligence. Correct. So what difference is are inherent to these groups that you’ve created in your mind? None. I created none of them in my mind. So what is the purpose of the racial buckets that you’ve created? I didn't create any. What are the distinguishing factors that make the people different? Is it just skin color? No. It could be a number of things; like skin color, eye shape, nose shape, hair texture, etc... See the definition. Again, America’s definition of black is different than yours because you don’t like to put light skinned people in the black category. Correct. But I still do from time to time because there are few other viable alternatives. ProfD No confusion. Racism cannot exist without race. Exactly! Chev Yes, whether it is defined as a social construct or not, it is still 'partially' based on science and that is the problem in that it is 'partially' based on science. I agree. According to the definition, it could be based on ANY perceivable (phenotypical) difference in groups of people so science (genetics) plays a huge role in defining a person's racial category.
frankster Posted June 15 Report Posted June 15 5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Not true it specifically mentions ....any social group into which humans can be divided according to perceived similarities in their physical characteristics: Ok.... So how does this make MY statement "not true" in your opinion? Yes.....it does make your statement untrue.. As opposed to implying biology or genetics - it specifically states "social groups"
Pioneer1 Posted June 15 Author Report Posted June 15 1 hour ago, frankster said: Yes.....it does make your statement untrue.. As opposed to implying biology or genetics - it specifically states "social groups" The definition CLEARLY STATES: Quote race noun (PEOPLE) C1 [ C ] one of the main groups to which people are often considered to belong, based on physical characteristics that they are perceived to share such as skin color, eye shape, etc.: And where do we get PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS from? Well....huh.....let's go back to the dictionary! Quote Genetics B2 the study of how, in all living things, the characteristics and qualities of parents are given to their children by their genes GENETICS | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary ....What more proof do you NEED to understand that race definitely DOES have a genetic component to it????
frankster Posted June 15 Report Posted June 15 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: The definition CLEARLY STATES: race noun (PEOPLE) C1 [ C ] one of the main groups to which people are often considered to belong, based on physical characteristics that they are perceived to share such as skin color, eye shape, etc.: Yes and it clearly States: Social groups. Social Groups are a Categorization of human beings....a category is not a living being but system of differentiating. Any and everything can be categories along varying criteria..... The Concept of Race is loosely based on appearance...and not genes as brothers and sisters of the same egg and sperm will differ. Social Groups are not biological entities....As such they do not have Genes.....instead they have Memes and Organizational Memories ....any social group into which humans can be divided according to perceived similarities in their physical characteristics: 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: And where do we get PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS from? Well....huh.....let's go back to the dictionary! the study of how, in all living things, the characteristics and qualities of parents are given to their children by their genes Yes.... Physical Characteristic is derived from Genes....Social groups are not. Social Groupings are Politically or Culturally derived....not genetically The Same Gene can be Expressed in different ways....for instance one twin white and the other black In other words....it is the same genes that are responsible for all human differentiation and - no gene can be tied to any specific human trait exclusive of all other human traits. 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: ....What more proof do you NEED to understand that race definitely DOES have a genetic component to it???? All official genetic scientists will attest to the known fact that Race is not Genetic.... You have proved nothing....but that you are delusional
Pioneer1 Posted June 15 Author Report Posted June 15 frankster Yes and it clearly States: Social groups. Social Groups are a Categorization of human beings....a category is not a living being but system of differentiating. Yes. Race is a classification OF human beings. Any and everything can be categories along varying criteria..... Almost everything can be classified, but not as "races". Racial classifications are for human beings. The Concept of Race is loosely based on appearance...and not genes as brothers and sisters of the same egg and sperm will differ. Social Groups are not biological entities What are you talking about? They are MULTIPLE biological entities...lol. Yes.... Physical Characteristic is derived from Genes....Social groups are not. Social Groupings are Politically or Culturally derived....not genetically The Same Gene can be Expressed in different ways....for instance one twin white and the other black In other words....it is the same genes that are responsible for all human differentiation and - no gene can be tied to any specific human trait exclusive of all other human traits. Thank you. It's about time we agree that I'm right! All official genetic scientists will attest to the known fact that Race is not Genetic.... And the dictionaries and official SOCIAL scientists will attest to the fact that races DO exist and can be based ON genetic differences.
frankster Posted June 16 Report Posted June 16 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Yes and it clearly States: Social groups. Social Groups are a Categorization of human beings....a category is not a living being but system of differentiating. Yes. Race is a classification OF human beings. Thank you 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Any and everything can be categories along varying criteria..... Almost everything can be classified, but not as "races". Racial classifications are for human beings. Wrong again race do not have to be human beings See below 2 a : a group of living things considered as a category … countless asters, … tansies, golden-rods, and the whole race of yellow flowers …—Henry David Thoreau … full many a man loves his dog better than the rest of mankind, and so the devotion of the race of dogs finds return and recompense.—Wardon Allan Curtis https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/race 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The Concept of Race is loosely based on appearance...and not genes as brothers and sisters of the same egg and sperm will differ. Social Groups are not biological entities What are you talking about? They are MULTIPLE biological entities...lol. Yes.... Physical Characteristic is derived from Genes....Social groups are not. Social Groupings are Politically or Culturally derived....not genetically The Same Gene can be Expressed in different ways....for instance one twin white and the other black In other words....it is the same genes that are responsible for all human differentiation and - no gene can be tied to any specific human trait exclusive of all other human traits. Thank you. It's about time we agree that I'm right! Race is not derived from genes but from politics and society Characteristics are derived from genes....politics use those characteristic to create a lie called race - so it appears genetic. You have been fooled by these political liars. 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: All official genetic scientists will attest to the known fact that Race is not Genetic.... And the dictionaries and official SOCIAL scientists will attest to the fact that races DO exist and can be based ON genetic differences. The Dictionaries already let you know that race is a Social phenomena and not genetic one
Pioneer1 Posted June 16 Author Report Posted June 16 frankster Race is not derived from genes but from politics and society It may not be derived from genes but can be BASED on genes. Characteristics are derived from genes....politics use those characteristic to create a lie called race - so it appears genetic. What about skin color, eye color, hair texture and other PHYSICAL characteristics derived from genes? How does THOSE characteristics factor in "the lie"???? You have been fooled by these political liars. Lol.... You smoke weed you buy from the dispensary, but want to call OTHER people "fooled"???? The Dictionaries already let you know that race is a Social phenomena and not genetic one But it can be BASED ON genetics.
frankster Posted June 17 Report Posted June 17 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Race is not derived from genes but from politics and society It may not be derived from genes but can be BASED on genes. Race is not based on genes 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Characteristics are derived from genes....politics use those characteristic to create a lie called race - so it appears genetic. What about skin color, eye color, hair texture and other PHYSICAL characteristics derived from genes? How does THOSE characteristics factor in "the lie"???? All human beings no matter what Ethinic group exhibit those characteristics in the form of traits 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: You have been fooled by these political liars. Lol.... You smoke weed you buy from the dispensary, but want to call OTHER people "fooled"???? I will neither deny or confirm 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The Dictionaries already let you know that race is a Social phenomena and not genetic one But it can be BASED ON genetics. Race as a social concept has no genetic connection.... Race is based on politics...
Pioneer1 Posted June 22 Author Report Posted June 22 frankster Race is not based on genes Race CAN be based on physical traits, which ARE based on genes. All human beings no matter what Ethinic group exhibit those characteristics in the form of traits All human beings don't exhibit the SAME traits. I will neither deny or confirm Lol.... Race is based on politics... ....among other things.
frankster Posted June 22 Report Posted June 22 5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Race is not based on genes Race CAN be based on physical traits, which ARE based on genes. All ethnicities share in all human traits and genes....especially Africans 5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: All human beings no matter what Ethinic group exhibit those characteristics in the form of traits All human beings don't exhibit the SAME traits. They do only to different degrees 5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I will neither deny or confirm Lol.... That info has no bearing on the issues we are discussion beyond - encouraging ad hominem responses which are not conducive to learning and sharing. 5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Race is based on politics... ....among other things. All other claimed derivations...such as based on or in - are purely fictitious and have no basis in fact or reality
Pioneer1 Posted June 22 Author Report Posted June 22 frankster All ethnicities share in all human traits and genes....especially Africans All people have SKIN. Is it the SAME SKIN??? All people have HAIR. Is it the SAME HAIR??? What are you implying by constantly claiming "all ethnicties" share "all traits and genes"???? And why say "especially Africans"? Especially for WHAT???? If "all" people share human traits and genes then there is no "especially" Africans. Everybody...period. They do only to different degrees I'm not sure what that means. Either they're the SAME or they're not. If they are the SAME then there ARE NO "different degrees". If the "degree" is different, then it's NOT the same. All other claimed derivations...such as based on or in - are purely fictitious and have no basis in fact or reality You yourself admitted that by it's definition....race can be based on any of a number of things. So why would basing it on something then make it "fictitious" having no basis in reality????
frankster Posted June 23 Report Posted June 23 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster All ethnicities share in all human traits and genes....especially Africans All people have SKIN. Is it the SAME SKIN??? All people have HAIR. Is it the SAME HAIR??? What are you implying by constantly claiming "all ethnicties" share "all traits and genes"???? And why say "especially Africans"? Especially for WHAT???? If "all" people share human traits and genes then there is no "especially" Africans. Everybody...period. Africans are the source/original gene 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: They do only to different degrees I'm not sure what that means. Either they're the SAME or they're not. If they are the SAME then there ARE NO "different degrees". If the "degree" is different, then it's NOT the same. Example you and your siblings of the same parents share the same gene....but you and your sibling are not exact copies of each other. 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: All other claimed derivations...such as based on or in - are purely fictitious and have no basis in fact or reality You yourself admitted that by it's definition....race can be based on any of a number of things. So why would basing it on something then make it "fictitious" having no basis in reality???? Race is political and social......all other claims as to its basis is fictitious.
Pioneer1 Posted June 24 Author Report Posted June 24 frankster Africans are the source/original gene That wasn't the question I asked. I didn't ask you who the "source" was. I asked you....since you love to talk about the traits and genes "all" ethnicities share....do ALL people have the same skin and hair? Example you and your siblings of the same parents share the same gene....but you and your sibling are not exact copies of each other. This is because we share only SOME of the same genes. Other genes we don't. Race is political and social......all other claims as to its basis is fictitious. I believe the POSITION you're taking on this issue is "fictitious"....lol.
frankster Posted June 24 Report Posted June 24 19 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Africans are the source/original gene That wasn't the question I asked. I didn't ask you who the "source" was. I asked you....since you love to talk about the traits and genes "all" ethnicities share....do ALL people have the same skin and hair? All human differences are a long a line of gradations from the source or original....No two human beings are exactly the same. All humans have skin and hair No two people share the same skin or hair....except they be biological conjoined together In which case the question becomes are they two or one. 19 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Example you and your siblings of the same parents share the same gene....but you and your sibling are not exact copies of each other. This is because we share only SOME of the same genes. Other genes we don't. We share in the same genes....but we do not express those genes to the same extent. Our genes come from the same source pool of genes....African Ethnicities. 19 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Race is political and social......all other claims as to its basis is fictitious. I believe the POSITION you're taking on this issue is "fictitious"....lol. You can believe whatever you like..
Troy Posted June 25 Report Posted June 25 On 6/16/2025 at 5:11 PM, Pioneer1 said: It may not be derived from genes but can be BASED on genes. No. It has already been established that the is more genetic diversity within a so-called race that between them. In other words, @Pioneer1 you are genetically closer to a garden variety white boy than you are to any given Brother. You may reject this, but it is a fact. On 6/15/2025 at 6:51 AM, Pioneer1 said: how can this happen when you summarily decide to boot Black people from the so-called race because you don’t like their skin color. Who does this? You do this all the time. Recently you said Homer Plessey wasn't Black. The supreme court said he was Blac and could not sit in the same train car as good white people, but you say he is not Black. You also said Walter White wasn't Black. He says he was Black and he ran the NAACP for 2 decades. On 6/15/2025 at 6:51 AM, Pioneer1 said: If there were no racial differences, racism itself wouldn't exist because it would have no basis. This is why racism is so stupid for it has no basis in science -- it is purely arbitrary. On 6/15/2025 at 6:51 AM, Pioneer1 said: What are the distinguishing factors that make the people different? Is it just skin color? No. It could be a number of things; like skin color, eye shape, nose shape, hair texture, etc... Are there standard for all of these? Do you need all od the characteristics, some of them or just one? Supposed you are a dark-skinned person with a narrow nose, straight hair, and rounds eyes are these people Black? On 6/14/2025 at 11:51 AM, ProfD said: No confusion. Racism cannot exist without race. They just call it something else. So called white people have discriminated and persecuted other so called white people for any number of nonsensical reasons. "Race" is just another stupid reason in a long line of stupid reasons...
ProfD Posted June 25 Report Posted June 25 33 minutes ago, Troy said: They just call it something else. So called white people have discriminated and persecuted other so called white people for any number of nonsensical reasons. "Race" is just another stupid reason in a long line of stupid reasons... Regardless of the reasons, race is something we have to acknowledge and deal with under the system of racism white supremacy. The fact that they have to make laws in order to *correct* racial discrimination and prosecute race-based crimes makes it a real thing.
Troy Posted June 25 Report Posted June 25 Agreed with some edits: Regardless of the reasons, race racism is something we have to acknowledge and deal with under the system of racism white supremacy. The fact that they have to make laws in order to *correct* racial discrimination and prosecute race-based crimes makes it a real thing.
ProfD Posted June 25 Report Posted June 25 5 hours ago, Troy said: Regardless of the reasons, race racism is something we have to acknowledge and deal with under the system of racism white supremacy. Race cannot be separate from racism. 5 hours ago, Troy said: The fact that they have to make laws in order to *correct* racial discrimination and prosecute race-based crimes makes it a real thing. There are laws on the books that disproportionately affect Black people. Same goes for sentencing guidelines. The world has not reached that idyllic point where race is a non-issue. 1
Troy Posted June 25 Report Posted June 25 Racism can only persist in the world that embraces race. I’m not in favor of laws that have different sentencing guidelines based upon the so-called race of the perpetrator or the victim. You rape somebody you get charged for rape you murder somebody you get charged for murder the whole idea of a “hate” crime never made sense to me. We can’t even agree on who’s Black and who’s white no we’re supposed to have different sentences based upon the idea of race.
ProfD Posted June 25 Report Posted June 25 45 minutes ago, Troy said: Racism can only persist in the world that embraces race. Even in my eternal optimism, I don't believe that will ever change. The maintenance of power and wealth is inextricably tied to racism. 45 minutes ago, Troy said: I’m not in favor of laws that have different sentencing guidelines based upon the so-called race of the perpetrator or the victim. Same here. I believe everything should be based on a system of justice as defined by fairness and impartiality. Not a system of laws that benefit certain groups of people while harming others based on race, class, creed, orientation, etc. 45 minutes ago, Troy said: We can’t even agree on who’s Black and who’s white no we’re supposed to have different sentences based upon the idea of race. The people who enforce the laws don't seem to be confused about race. Idealistically, human beings need to do a better job of taking care of each other. It looks like we have a long way to go in that regard.
Troy Posted June 25 Report Posted June 25 19 minutes ago, ProfD said: I don't believe that will ever change. The maintenance of power and wealth is inextricably tied to racism. Of course it will change. Power and wealth tied to racism is relatively new and is already on it's way out. 21 minutes ago, ProfD said: The people who enforce the laws don't seem to be confused about race. Sure, they are. Anyone who buys into the notion of race is confused by definition. Think about the practice of "passing." You saw Sinners the question "What are you?" illustrates our level of confusion.
Pioneer1 Posted June 28 Author Report Posted June 28 frankster All human differences are a long a line of gradations from the source or original....No two human beings are exactly the same. All humans have skin and hair No two people share the same skin or hair Correct, so how can "all" people share the same genes? We share in the same genes....but we do not express those genes to the same extent. People share SOME genes and SOME are different. Nobody shares the same genes except twins. And even THEY are different if they LOOK different. Troy It has already been established that the is more genetic diversity within a so-called race that between them. Yes. Especially depending on how race is defined. You do this all the time. When have I said I "didn't like" somebody's skin color???? Recently you said Homer Plessey wasn't Black. He's not, as far as I'M concerned. You also said Walter White wasn't Black. He says he was Black and he ran the NAACP for 2 decades. A man can SAY he's a "woman" and open a women's club....that still doesn't make him one. This is why racism is so stupid for it has no basis in science -- it is purely arbitrary. Racism may be evil and wicked, but it's not stupid. Entire nations, kingdoms, and civilizations were built off of it. Nobility practices it around the globe. Are there standard for all of these? Do you need all od the characteristics, some of them or just one? Again, depends on the society and what they agree on. As frankster and you constantly point out...it's a SOCIAL CONSTRUCT. So whatever society decides to STRUCTURE racial categories as, those are the features they will revolve around. Supposed you are a dark-skinned person with a narrow nose, straight hair, and rounds eyes are these people Black? If society decides to include them in the Black category...yes. The United States does. But another society may call those same people "White" or "Caucasian" like they do the Ethiopians or South Indians with those very same features. the whole idea of a “hate” crime never made sense to me. It's a type of "over kill" promoted by social justice activists to try and ensure that proper justice is served to those who commit crimes based on hatred of a "protected" group. Kind of like how the cops who were found not guilty for the beating of Rodney King were later charged by the Federal government for violating his civil rights. I don't think there were "hate crime" charges available at that time but being charged with violating a person's civil rights was "back up plan" the Federal prosecutors could use to go after somebody they knew were guilty as sin but for some reason "got off". Civil rights leaders hoped that by adding these extra layers of laws to the charge...it would prevent racists from getting off scott free on technicalities or being found not guilty by racist jurors.
frankster Posted June 28 Report Posted June 28 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster All human differences are a long a line of gradations from the source or original....No two human beings are exactly the same. All humans have skin and hair No two people share the same skin or hair Correct, so how can "all" people share the same genes? Environment Diet Geography Culture and Behavior influences and informs gene expression - epigenetics Those epigenetic factors result in gene plasticity.....The same gene expressing differently 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: We share in the same genes....but we do not express those genes to the same extent. People share SOME genes and SOME are different. Nobody shares the same genes except twins. And even THEY are different if they LOOK different. People share the same genes....the genes are expressed differently
Pioneer1 Posted June 30 Author Report Posted June 30 frankster Environment Diet Geography Culture and Behavior influences and informs gene expression - epigenetics While this is true, it does NOT mean that we all have the same genes. Those epigenetic factors result in gene plasticity.....The same gene expressing differently Again, this is true but people STILL have different actual genes regardless as to how they are expressed. People share the same genes....the genes are expressed differently Again, SOME are shared...some are not. If what you saying were true.....everybody living in....say....ALABAMA...growing up in the same environment and eating the same foods would LOOK the same. There wouldn't be any differences in skin color, hair texture, facial features, etc....... Same environment eating the same foods, so there shouldn't be much if any difference.
frankster Posted July 1 Report Posted July 1 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Environment Diet Geography Culture and Behavior influences and informs gene expression - epigenetics While this is true, it does NOT mean that we all have the same genes. We all share from the the same gene pool... If you can find a gene that one human have and another does not please share??? 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Those epigenetic factors result in gene plasticity.....The same gene expressing differently Again, this is true but people STILL have different actual genes regardless as to how they are expressed. No...as far as I know they are the same genes express to varying degrees. 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: People share the same genes....the genes are expressed differently Again, SOME are shared...some are not. If what you saying were true.....everybody living in....say....ALABAMA...growing up in the same environment and eating the same foods would LOOK the same. There wouldn't be any differences in skin color, hair texture, facial features, etc....... Same environment eating the same foods, so there shouldn't be much if any difference. No....you and your siblings have same parents and same food yet you are different. Same gene express more or less in each individual
Delano Posted July 1 Report Posted July 1 On 6/9/2025 at 6:53 AM, Troy said: Note the use of the words "perceived to share" and "the idea that people can be divided" Obviously the "idea" of race exists. The point is that just that and idea without basis in science. As a result, it is subject to human whim. Just like unicorns
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