Pioneer1

He did HIS job. He can't save everybody. For over 50 years he's been showing brothers and sisters the right way to form and raise families, get off drugs, stay out of trouble and prison, and live productive and for the most part successful lives. THOUSANDS of Black men and women can attest to this and are very thankful for his efforts. Infact back in 1995 he called over a million Black men to show up to D.C. and told them to go back home, take care of their families, leave the drugs alone, become leaders in their communities, and BUILD. How many of them followed that advice? Like any minister, if he gives you the word...it's up to YOU to listen to it and follow the advice. Now if YOU choose not to do that....that's more of a reflection of YOU and not HIM.

frankster Lol.. There's a reason why they kept putting the term "little brain" in quotes. It is figurative. So it's not taken seriously; especially by people like YOU. Notice how they would speak of the "little brain" but when it came to the ACTUAL brain they say "like the neurons in THE brain". Meaning the ACTUAL brain....the REAL brain. Not this "play-tend" or "make believe" brain we're figuratively speaking of. Pubmed and the doctors did it for me. They were being figurative, thus the quotes. I think you know that. Atleast I hope you do. Thats up to you....call it what you want I'm gonna call it "a wrap" for THIS particular issue...lol. Troy Sounds like he was hallucinating. What if he wasn't? What if he actually saw and heard what he claimed? People don't hallucinate entire scenarios in crystal clear imagery like he did. ProfD Folks who claim NDE is so great and beautiful never seem to be in a rush to make it permanent. Actually many if not most of them do! Most people who have had vivid NDE's have said that they were depressed when they came back to this world and all they could think about for a long time was how beautiful it was on the other side and just going back. For many of them, the only thing that kept them FROM committing suicide to go back over there was knowing that their time in THIS world was limited....would be up soon anyway...and that their life was given to them as a gift and they didn't want to disappoint Who gave them that gift; so they spend the rest of this life looking forward to the reward of going back "home".

.....and how do you PROTECT that reserve once you attain it? This is why we need a COMMUNITY of people who are organized and willing to look out for eachothers best interests. Good examples of this are the various Jewish communities in New York with their own schools, ambulances, and policing services. And the Mormons in Utah.

Dr. Clarke was a very brilliant brother, but in this particular case he was WRONG. He literally contradicted himself by saying that there was no such thing as race THEN went on to talk about how man invented races and racial classifications!!!! According to the Cambridge dictionary, race DOES exist: race noun (PEOPLE) C1 [ C ] one of the main groups to which people are often considered to belong, based on physical characteristics that they are perceived to share such as skin color, eye shape, etc.: People of many different races were living side by side RACE | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary That entry from the dictionary is clear proof of the existence of not only race but MULTIPLE races as a way of categorizing people. If it didn't exist, there would be no need to define it.

Troy Again, those articles were addressed and @frankster I believe even provided you with information to explain why. The only thing frankster did was...like you...DEFLECT from the point of those articles. The point was that science/medicine DID recognize race and multiple races. frankster The Article deals with race as a Social Construct... And? It would support your ideas and lend credibility.... My credibility with who??? I've already said that multiple races are real and they exist. You said you didn't accept it. So I provided dictionary definitions as well as scientific journals PROVING to you that they do. Yet you still argue with me or deflect by calling it a "social construct"...as if that is supposed to absolve you of your error. Do you know what a social construct is? Does it matter? It's a reality whatever it is. Caught you.... Lol...I wasn't running anywhere TO be caught. I truly don't recall discussing the concept of "race" with you in depth. Yes it is sexism What's your definition of "sexism"??? Yes....they are hated for their sexual behavior They are often hated for their sexual ORIENTATION regardless of their behavior. They could be gay virgins...and still be hated and seen as queer. Not sure what you are saying here I'm saying that a man who has sex with a woman would NOT be hated. Which means a gay man isn't hated because he's a MAN, because if that were the case straight men would be hated as well. He's hated because of his sexual ORIENTATION...being gay. Usually male who have sexual relationships with other males are hated as a class/group. Yes. This isn't sexism. Other members of the same sex are NOT hated. It is sexism I think you are confusing Mysogyny and Sexism... I think you are.....confused, lol.

ProfD I've already read about NDEs. Didn't change my mind any more than hearing someone prophesizing or speaking in tongues. Well, if you have a half hour or so...check this brutha out: I understand most people have to believe in something. It provides meaning and/or a sense of purpose to their lives in the physical and spiritual realms. If this urge is in humans, perhaps it was given to us for a reason. frankster You missing the point You're missing MY point. MY point is you said that they found a "brain" in the heart. ....I did not set out to prove that the heart just has a brain Good, because you didn't...lol. If it pumps and the heart is also a pump....then it is a localized heart (as in a pump) So if a man uses his fingers to stimulate a woman sexually, is his finger now a "localized penis"???

ProfD That would make sense. If 20 years doesn't rehabilitate there's a deeper problem. This is my reasoning as well. It's about rehabilitation and deterrence. Agreed. If the crime warrants a death penalty, it should be carried out in short order. Similar to how the Germans applied it with the guillotine. Well not TOO quick...lol. Make sure the person is ACTUALLY guilty of their crime before putting them to death. So many people are on death row in the United States based on flimsy evidence, racist/biased juries and judges, and simply not being able to afford a good enough lawyer. Here and anywhere else where you have Black people living under White rule...I'd demand that a person almost CONFESS to their crime before sentencing them to death. Don't sleep on torture being a viable deterent. A lot of people aren't afraid of death and really don't care. They'd shoot up 100 people and welcome the death penalty with a smile. One quick death for a crime so massive and heinous??? No way. Make them pay a price for EVERY life they took and EVERY serious injury they inflicted. You said the Germans and the guillotine. I think it was the FRENCH who used the guillotines...lol. Later on the Germans didn't even waste time killing one person at a time-they started turning public showers into mass gas chambers and executing people by the hundreds at one time.

ProfD Black folks aren't going to punish them. Maybe not directly...unless some bruthaz get to them up in the pen'. I don't expect Black folks to. I'm speaking of them being prosecuted and punished for their crimes legally. But if a Black man a few cells down get a kite on what they did and wants to exact some of his own "justice" for our sista...I won't cry over it. That's not how radicalized individuals think. They believe in going the extra mile for the cause. Unafraid to sacrifice life and liberty for their beliefs. That's one of the reasons I left religion. I came to the conclusion that if I did believe in it...I would have to belive in it 100%. ..and I didn't. If you're willing to kill someone or sacrifice your own life for something, you better make good and sure it's TRUE before doing so. And if you're doing it for a religion, you might want to confirm that the Deity you believe in will have your back and keep your enemies from getting to you.

frankster Then why are you surprise by the stance he takes?? I'm not. If the evidence you provided is similar to the one you provided in this thread...then I know why it is not convincing. My point in providing those articles to him...as with you...is to offer PROOF that science accepts and deals with the concept of race as a Reality. That article and the others I've provided over the years accomplished that mission regardless as to how the information was accepted or rejected. Maybe you should try finding a scientific study on race specifically....that supports your point or opinion. Why? So you can work on your "denial skills" and find a way to dismiss THAT too? The name of YOUR game is "deny and deflect". DENY AND DEFLECT. First you deny something and when I present you with proof of it, you try to DEFLECT from it by pointing out something that has nothing to do with the actual proof I provided. Ok...I thought we had this discussion before Perhaps, but I don't recall it. This is a real life example being used to refute the idea that you have to be a different sex(male vs female) to be hated as in sexism Males hate males who engage in certain type of sex....where they play the role of a woman Then that's not sexism. If they are SPECIFYING the type of male they hate...then that means they don't hate males in general. So their hatred isn't geared towards a SEX but a PARTICUAL GROUP within that sex. What it shows is that you do not have to be a different sex to be hated because of your sex...as faux female are. As I said above, they aren't hated because of their sex but because of their behavior. A person of that same sex who assumes the role of a man and has sex with a woman will NOT be hated by that same person. One member of the male sex is hated. Another member of the male sex is accepted/loved. So it's not sexism, but something else factoring in. Troy Yeah, you simply can’t do it can you? You’re too young to be so rigid in your thinking. Man, what are you talking about....lol. I've shown you articles and given you definitions. If you're not convinced now that multiple races exist...you just don't want to be.

Trust me, the Nation of Islam gets on Black folks but in a positive and corrective way. Not in a way that reinforces the low self esteem that so many of our people already suffer from. They do it with CORRECTIVE criticism. They just don't do it in public....and they shouldn't. Family business stays IN the family. If your child steals something or lies, you don't drag them to the middle of the block and whoop them in front of the entire neighborhood. You take them behind closed doors, let them know what they did was wrong, and THEN you go to "work" on that ass -if need be (sometimes punishment isn't needed depending on the child) You don't go all over Youtube dissing your own people and calling them "no good niggaz" and "baby mamma makers" like Jesse Lee Peterson and Pastor Manning. When you love somebody you firmly but humanely point out their errors while at the same time offering them the correction and solution and a better way to talk and live. I don't think anybody else on here...atleast anyone who posts here on a regular basis...criticizes our people like I do, lol. But I do it HERE...among family. Like Malcolm X said...you get behind closed doors with your family and TALK SHOCK. I'll tell you QUICK that a lot of these niggaz are dumb as hell and ain't shit. But I don't go in White spaces saying that or talking about how silly and criminal minded a lot of our people are because it only benefits White folks who enjoy hearing it. Hearing and seeing the dysfunction of our people makes White folks feel better about themselves and superior. When you go to a NOI Temple/Mosque one of the first things they do is line you up and search you and your belongings from head to toe and even manhandle you if you resist. And then they'll explain to you WHY there's a search procedure because of the crime and vices and immorality in the community. They're trained to deal with the hard headedness and rebelliousness of our people.

ProfD I have no idea of what's going on in death. Maybe the playing field is level there. Study "Near Death Experiences" and perhaps they may change your mind. I don't see any reason Black folks should have to wait until they're dead in order to have peace and prosperity abundantly. Many don't. Much of it depends on how F/fortunate you are and how smart you are to make that happen for yourself. Even during Slavery some Black folks faired better than others. White folks are enjoying everything that life has to offer on this side. They're not waiting for an all expense paid trip to the other side of *glory*. Many White folks have enough sense (intelligence) to BUILD it for themselves instead of waiting on death or having faith in religion. Many of our people do to. The Nation of Islam teaches that there is no life after physical death and they encourage their members to NOT expect "a pie in the sky in the sweet bye-n-bye after they die" But to "get something SOUND on the GROUND why they're still around" I believe a person should strive for BOTH. Success in this physical life and even more importantly Success in the spiritual life or lives. How can you lose with all grounds covered? frankster The Ancients single out the heart as the most important organ in the body....their wisdom is not yet known by scientists - but they found a brain in the heart The exact quote is: First of all the article says the heart's neural network is OFTEN referred to as a "heart brain". That's not the same as finding an actual BRAIN in the heart. This is more colloquial talk in the medical field than actual accepted science. Kind of like how the calf muscle is casually referred to as the "second heart" because it helps pump blood back up into the rest of the body. It's not to be taken too seriously. Unless this "second heart" houses a "third brain"...lol.

ProfD That beautiful sista was definitely in the wrong place at the wrong time. The way I see it.... She was exactly where she was SUPPOSED to be...legally speaking. In HER country minding HER own business. They were the ones in the wrong place. But I understand the point you're making. Hopefully, those 6 illegal immigrants will be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Most likely, they will be deported under the current administration too. Nah....that's too damn easy. Deport them AFTER they get through being punished for our sista'z murder. If they are still alive. This clown overstayed his work visa. He tried to unalive the *wrong* people. Coming against Israel and Jews is a cardinal sin. Lol...... They're talking about deporting his whole family now. Homeboy made the entire block hot with his antics. Somebody should ask him who told him that HE needed to run around setting people on fire over Israel when you have a dozen Arab countries with plenty of sophisticated weapons who COULD come to the aid of the Palestinians. The murder of the Jewish couple 2 weeks ago and this latest situation could result in an uptick in mass deportations. Was that the double murder at some sort of monument or museum in Washington D.C.? I didn't follow the story too much.

ProfD I'm not sure if Mr.Hoover is actually going to get out because he's not only serving a Federal sentence but a State one two concurrently. Perhaps that's why his sentence was "commuted" instead of "pardoned" I don't support giving people "life" sentences in prison. No more than 20 years at the most. I believe if they commit a crime so bad that they need to be locked up the rest of their lives, perhaps it's best to just kill them out right. Or torture them for a certain amount of time, reform them, and let them go free. If they have a mental problem where they CAN'T be allowed to go free, then they should be institutionalized and properly treated.

Regardless as to how bad it may seem to be for Black people, 2 things to be kept in mind: This isn't the only Reality. Death exists for a reason.

Reported by Fox News, so take it for what it's worth: Six illegal immigrants, ages 13 through 21, charged in connection with a South Carolina mother's "random" murder earlier this month allegedly texted each other about the crime afterward. Lancaster County Sheriff’s Office deputies located Larisha Sharell Thompson, 40, deceased with a gunshot wound behind the wheel of her vehicle on Riverside Road in Lancaster, located about an hour south of Charlotte, North Carolina, on May 2. Six migrants charged in SC mom’s murder detailed crime in eerie messages: ‘Just the beginning’ Whether this is xenophobic propaganda or not: 2 things are strikingly clear: 1. This sista's murder was real. She was killed by people who had no damn business being in the country in the first place 2. Non-Black Latinos offer very little if any benefit to us as FBA/ADOS by being here in this country.

frankster Did you know that prior to this thread....that he had that opinion on race? Yes. I've known this for years. And no amount of evidence PROOF I've presented to him has convinced him otherwise. His dial is SET on that station...lol. You also knew that I shared that opinion on race? No I don't recall going in depth with you over it but I thought you actually DID believe in multiple races. Hindu scriptures... Can you provide a quote (or quotes) from Hindu scriptures that clearly assert that humans are millions of years old? Is this the quote: "Both Blacks and Whites did not know they were Black or White till they Arrive in the West...and became Aware of the 'Ideology of Racism that governs Western Society." The difference is Singular Historical Experience - Transatlantic/Triangular Slave Trade/Route and its effects and purposes." Yes, that's the quote. You clearly spoke in general terms claiming Whites didn't know they were White until they arrived in the West. It is based on sex....your own difinition just admitted to it It's based on sexual PRERENCE. Sex and Sexual Preference are 2 different concepts. They often overlap, but are still separate.

ProfD In Voodoo, Hoodoo, Santeria, Eastern Mystical traditions, and indigenous magic in general...blood, bones, nail clippings, and hair are all used in rituals and spells. It's commonly believed that these body parts...even when they have been separated from the individual for an extended period of time contain the "essence" or "print" of the person. To frankster's point, science today is just now catching up to this with the DNA codes and other individual markers of a person. Hell, it took them thousands of years to realize that nearly each individual had their own unique FINGERPRINT...lol. The human body has also been likened to a "hologram" in which each pixel is actually a representative of the entire PICTURE. But to you that all sounds like magical mumbo-jumbo....lol. frankster Yes it is evidence... Yes, at this point that's all it is...not proof. Every cell and organ is conscious.....according Ancients Knowledge I can agree with that. No need to single the heart out. Yes...not just the cell - down to the molecules I can dig that too. Look I cannot make it any clearer with out coming off as being condescending....Which you may interpete as an insult. Cool. I'm not gonna ask you again.

The part that is not true.

frankster If transplantation affects Personality and Behavior....it affects thoughts - be they good or evil.. I need provide no further proof... That study is evidence, not proof. It's not established science that thoughts and emotions actually come from the human heart and you know it. Although it's not proof of your assertion, I won't continue arguing against it because it would come too dangerously close to contradicting my own beliefs about the possibilities that different parts of the human body...especially the blood and DNA...contain a certain degree of consciousness, memory, personality, personal vibration, etc...OF that particular individual. In other words..... If the blood, the DNA, or each living cell contains some consciousness or essence of the person...that would INCLUDE the heart (as well as other organs) by default. No need.... You said: but it does affect you negatively if I mention your struggles with ignorance and confusion that you admitted to ? If you want a clear answer, you need to ask a clear question...lol.

frankster Cool...so you want him to go against his own opinion? That's his choice as is the case with anybody. I'll go against MY own opinion once clear knowledge and facts are introduced to me. How you EXPRESS that opinion...the timing and manner, is the issue. The Bible is one scripture.....every religion and culture have their scriptures - I find value in them all. So what scripture do you find value in that supports the idea that humans are millions of years old? Please post and link quote Back in May 10 in the 2nd page of this thread you said: Here you made a clear and blanket statement. You didn't say "some Whites" or "Most Europeans" but Whites. That covers them in general. ...and again, this isn't a true statement because European Caucasians acknowledged their Whiteness for decades if not centuries before coming to the Americas. Just as how the definition of race also told you that politicians are a race. And????? No.....your point was "You can't practice religious intolerance if only one religion exists." They are of the same religion yet the war on each other....so you do not need two religions - to experience "Religious intolerance" Correct, and I acknowledged that. You do not need two sexes to practice intolerance against against sex.... "You can't practice sexism, if only one sex exists." Homophobia is intolerance prejudice or discrimination based on sex ...especially same sex....sexism Homophobia isn't based on sex (the adjective not the verb). It's based on sexual ORIENTATION/PREFERENCE.

frankster The commendations I think are for posting and participating.....not as to whether or not your opinions are true accurate or good You don't get them simply for participating, lol. You get them from people who like what you have to say and generally agree with it. Or in some cases to show empathy or confusion. So you are asking him to play....Judge? Well, he's doing that anyway whether I ask him or not....lol. or are you asking that he tries to play fair when he knows you are wrong/inaccurate? That is an illogical question because he doesn't "know" that I'm wrong or inaccurate. He...like you...don't like the idea of multiple races and refuses to accept them as a Reality. It's not "wrong"; it's simply a position that he...again like YOU...vehemently disagrees with. 3 + 3 =17 is WRONG Acceptance or rejection of multiple races is a disagreement What about if Troy does not believe or totally disagree with what you are saying - should he hide or deny his own feelings and opinions? If he does it with YOU then yes...he should do it with me also. Again...if. Perhaps he agrees with everything you've said though. If that's the case, then my criticisms are unwarranted. It is my opinion that anyone can participate to the level they want or do not want.. It's my opinion likewise. However there's a difference between what people CAN do and what people SHOULD do. I support the fact that people CAN participate whenever and however they please but they SHOULD be fair and unbiased in how they do so. I have not been wrong.....and I am sure Troy will and would if he thought I was wrong You've contradicted yourself several times. One of those positions HAD to be the wrong one...lol. In another thread you entertain the idea of humans living with dinosaurs and this involves time periods MILLIONS of years ago...yet you claim to believe in scriptures and those scriptures date man no longer than 10,000 years old. If that's not a contradiction I don't know what else is...lol. That is a historical fact that many europeans historians have stated.... Most Europeans did not know they were white until they came to America....prior to that they thought of themselves in terms of nationals or ethnicities....most having never seeing Africans before coming here. You didn't say anything about "most Europeans" you made a straight statement that Whites DID NOT KNOW they were White until coming West. That was clearly wrong. Think about it.... if I keep telling you - your ego will force you to take offense and you will become defensive. So try and figure it out. It's not some trick question; I seriously want to know. What societies USED TO BE racist but are now no longer racist? Ok... The article said the disparities are a result of access.... That's not the point of my presenting the article. It's just the point you're DWELLING on to try and deny the obvious. The point is the fact that medicine recognized these women were of various races. Something you said that science does NOT recognize. Yes....so you create races based on natural differences between groups of people. Facts. It's about time you "got" it...lol. Different christian sects have been fighting and killing each other for yrs. Good point. See! See how easy it is to admit when someone made a good point??? Homophobia is an example of same sex bias prejudice or discrimination. Huh?????? I'm talking about SEXISM...not same sex discrimination.

frankster Thoughts flow from both the heart and mind/brain Well, on a similar note.... How do we know the mind is located in the brain? Lol, why not associate the mind with the heart too since you want to associate thinking and emotions with it? None that I know of... But there is a case where in the heart recipient was able to describe the killer of the donor... Hmmm.... Interesting, if true. However it does NOT provide the proof of your assertion that I've repeatedly asked for. but it does affect you negatively if I mention your struggles with ignorance and confusion that you admitted to ? I don't understand the question. Perhaps you can rephrase it.

frankster True....you are here longer and contribute a lot more than I do Well the reason I brought it up was..... If I weren't making good points in general, I wouldn't receive so many commendations. So why would I all of a sudden start falling off in THIS discussion? Why would I all of a sudden stop making sense and not making good points in this particular discussion? So is it that I'm not making good points in this discussion, or are the good points being IGNORED? So for you it is about Loyalty and payback ......not Truth For THIS discussion, no. Although I'm a very strong supporter and promoter of loyalty, that wasn't what my criticism was about. You are expecting Troy to defend and support you....even when you are wrong? Lol... I need no defense nor support from Troy or anybody else on this site. But what I DO expect from Troy...as well as anybody else...is a measure of fairness when it comes to commenting on and participating in discussions that are primarily between you and I. If you're going to sit back and watch....sit back and watch. If you're going to participate...participate. However if you're going to jump in and participate, I would like it if you're fair to BOTH of us. If you're going to call out where I'm wrong...call out where YOU'RE wrong. Don't just snuggle up with YOU and start giggling and pointing the finger at ME over a position you PERCEIVE to be erroneous like the multiple race issue but totally ignore the outlandish shit YOU be saying through out the discussion, lol. For example, when you said: That's not only wrong but down right silly in light of historical fact, yet who called you out on that statement? I don't expect unconditional support from anybody on this site, but I don't expect unconditional opposition either. Yes...Race exist as a social construct - especially in racist and former racist societies What are "former racist" societies? And can you give me an example of one? The study you link provided proof that the disparities in health outcome are a result of Access to treatment intervention tools and insurance etc.....not biology but racism I agree that racism is a major cause in those disparities. Different outcomes for the different RACES of women. In order to practice racism...that means MORE than one race must exist. You can't practice sexism, if only one sex exists. You can't practice religious intolerance if only one religion exists.

frankster Of course it is not on par with his proof.....his proof is based in denial and misunderstanding of the use and context of words. No, my proof usually consists of direct quotations and providing the links to back up my claims.

frankster I'm not going to wrestle with you for 10 weeks over this article as some sort of "proof" that thinking comes from the heart. Let me know when you've found some scientific articles that confirm that wicked thoughts, adultery, theft, and murder come from the HEARTS of men as that scripture you produced claims. If this is true, I wonder are there any articles confirming that some people have become serial killers or adulterers as a result of heart transplants??? Unless you choose to continue with this line of ad hominem/personal attacks...then its On If you didn't want to subject yourself to personal attacks, you wouldn't have admitted to being a weed head...lol. It is something you ignored... I've also "ignored" the color background of the discussion board, doesn't mean I deny it or believe it's a different color than they greyish color that it is. I tend to focus on more important things. Proverbs 27:7 Ok? What's your point in bringing up this scripture?