Pioneer1

ProfD Even if the unemployment sample set only consists of USA citizens, many groups of people don't need to be counted i.e. kids, retirees, rich folks, inmates, etc. I agree that kids and retirees shouldn't be counted. I WOULD count rich people....who aren't business owners...and inmates who weren't working, though. Owning a business is "working" as far as I'm concerned. Statisticians use several methods for data collection and analysis. There's really no reason for them manipulate or misrepresent unemployment data. There's no reason to slap a sucker out of the mouth of a stranger or kick an old lady down a flight of stair either, but some people still do it...because they can. Just like some people misrepresent and manipulate data and figures for no other reason besides the fact that they can. Troy That is just factually inaccurate. But it’s hard to convince people who have this belief to believe otherwise. How often do the eyes of MOST normal people actually deceive them? Indeed, there is no poll that even attempts to include all Americans. Nor do I expect for there to be or ask for one. Delano You are making assumptions about something that I know about and you do not. I find information in numbers. I was a statistics tutor in University in both the Mathematics and Business school. Plus I have been paid to do statistical work. At the end of the day, those statistics and figures you put so much trust and confidence in were generated by PEOPLE. I didn't need to go to college or business school to realize that PEOPLE OFTEN LIE. Did you???? In statistics you are trying to convert data into information. Accuracy is more important than precision.p Ok. So what's the difference BETWEEN accuracy and precision? Again it is useful to have some knowledge about the subject your discussing in order to have an informed position. So if we're in a ship and there's a hole in it filling the vessel up with water....I shouldn't speak up about it because I'm not a nautical engineering expert?

Yeah it is...... I was overly conflating the two a little bit.

Not that I agreed or disagreed with the ban....it wasn't my business or call to make. But if my memory serves me correctly, you banned her because she used the term "nigger bitch" which didn't sit right with you (or me either because of the hard "er"). I'm one of those people who believe that "nigger" and "nigga" are actually 2 different words because WE made that distinction. We didn't wait on White folks to sanction it. That being said..... When you call somebody a "nigger" with a hard "er" that smells of redneck racism and it's hard to believe another FBA Black person would see that as an acceptable insult.

There's no such think as an "independent" politician. If you become a political figure you're GOING to be beholden to and dependent on somebody....even if it's just those who voted you in. Unless you're in an executive position (like Trump and his "executive orders"), your only power comes from your influence over the people and your ability to sway them.

It's funny how both "coasts" seem to have a different word for similar establishments. Now in New York you'll call a jazzed up convenience store that offers a variety of goods and services a "bodega". But in Los Angeles you can have the same thing and they'll call them "swap meets"....lol.

Troy, I'm quite serious when I wonder why I have been singled out by the gods to be the target of a human gnat. @piognat: People: Now yall see? See how she gets if you get a few "over" on her and she doesn't have much of a come back???? See how she starts crying about being "singled out" and "targeted". Go on Cynique.... Go watch your Black Boule televison show....what is it again??? "Niggaz Beyond Their Means"????.....or something??? Go on 'head and finish day dreaming (or nightmaring) about your alternative life, where post offices don't exist....lol. I won't "pick on" you anymore....tonight....lol. Troy That's why I said it's fun and games on "my end" Cynique ain't playing most of the time. Being onery and combative is part of her personality and she can't help herself...lol. I know of that one person you were talking about. I think she was dealing with some issues but I do remember telling Cynique to stop poking at her and she just wouldn't do it. Day and night trading insults back and forth and following eachother around from thread to thread with the business. I remember...lol And when that girl reached her tipping point...booooooy she really went crazy and got in that ass....lol. If you HADN'T banned her she'd STILL be whooping on Cynique's ass.

Troy I had a row house in Harlem and the people walking by was never a problem as you mentioned. Right. Not only does the first floor in most New York rowhouses sit up higher but most of them have basements where a portion of the room itself is ABOVE the ground level...lol. You can stand down in the basement and look out of a window near the ceiling of it and see people walking by...lol. New York was built with style. Philly and Baltimore weren't, and it shows in the architecture and housing infrastructure. Another difference that most New York row houses have elaborate STAIR CASES leading up from the side walk to the front door. Most row houses in Philly and Baltimore DON'T. The first floor sits flat on the ground with front door either on the ground or on the stoop which is only a few steps high. Cheaply made compared to NYC. Most of the bodegas are owned by people of Middle Eastern descent. Ok.... I only been in a few and didn't really communicate with the workers/attendants like that to inquire their nationality. When I first heard the word "bodega"...I thought "Latino" or Puerto Rican so before my cousins took me in one I thought it was a place where Puerto Ricans go to get their beans and rice, lol. when I was a kid, Black people did own grocery stores but those days are over. my neighborhood grocery store was owned by a black man back in the day he sold pickles out of a barrel in the floor was wooden was saw dust on top of it. He tabulated what you owed by adding everything up on the paper bag with the pencil. Well...that's a little TOO far back for me. But I do remember the "change over" in Detroit and it seemed like it happened overnight. Detroit had a nice "sweet period" from about 1970 to 1982 where MOST of the small businesses in the neighborhoods were Black owned. The riots had just ran most of the Whites out so Black businessmen took advantage of the vacuum. I was a kid during that time and like you I remember going to the corner store for candy and there were Black men or Black women running it....often times with aprons on. Soul Food restaurants on every block. Black folks owned the gas stations too! Then it seemed like one Saturday morning back in 1982....I walked down to the corner store and instead of seeing the older Black man with a bald head and red apron who used to call me (every Black boy really...lol) "young blood"....instead of seeing HIM I saw "whitish" looking dude with a nappy beard and one of those flowered Hawaian shirts on behind the counter counting money with some fat hairy arms. He was too busy counting money to pay attention to me but I wandered around the store and saw a couple other dudes who looked like him and they were yelling at eachother in their own language. But somehow he knew how to talk "Black talk" and greeted me, took the money, and finished what he was doing. That was the beginning of the next 40 years of Middle Easterners taking control of the stores in Detroit's neighborhoods. Yeah, the Schomburg is worth checking out, but don’t have high expectations is mainly a research library so unless you’re going there to see something specific… They have a book fair every year and have some good programming so I will wait for that if you’re planning a visit. I'll check it out for sure. That's been on my list for a while. Academic libraries are MY TYPE of libraries because they tend to have more research and historical books and less "fluff". When I lived near universities, I would spend some Saturdays and Sundays with a cup of coffee RELAXING by hiding in the "stacks" and reading books.

I have relatives in both New York (not in Harlem though) AND D.C. Both of them have an abundance of rowhouses. One thing about the rowhouses....I'm sorry..."Brownstones"....lol....in Harlem. Atleast the front windows are high enough off the street that you usually don't see the heads of people walking past. In D.C and Philly....many of the rowhouses sit so low on the ground that when you're sitting in the living room chilling with somebody all you see is heads bobbling back and forth across the front window and occasionally one of those head will turn around and LOOK AT YOU or peak into the room....lol.

frankster OI see no real difference between one being less intolerant and the other being more tolerant....this is splitting hairs. No, it's not about splitting hairs but about telling the truth. Either Africa is a place of tolerance or it's not. If there's war and religious/political persecution going on around the continent...then it's NOT a place of tolerance where differences are welcomed and the people get along amicably as you claim. Its not only about current wars....to show levels of intolerance a history of wars is also necessary - and the article states that Africa is #5 among the 7 continents. The Mapuche wars in Chile.. The Farc/ELN wars in Columbia... Chiapas conflict in Mexico.... See, now you're reaching....as I knew you would. Unlike Africa with SEVERAL military conflicts going on around the continent...you can't say that about South America unless you dig down deep into the past. Just admit you were in error comparing Africa with South America, and move on....lol. What is the current state of affairs.....you cannt prove citizenship. You can ABSOLUTELY prove citizenship in most cases. Not in all, but in most. If you cannot prove that you are a citizen in actuality you will be treated as alien....until proof is provided. Again, just because you're not TREATED like a citizen doesn't mean you're NOT a citizen. Going by your logic...if a person isn't TREATED like a human being, does that mean they're NOT a human being?????

I'm no fan of Trump's but I'm glad he made the charges go away. Or HELPED make them go away in whatever capacity he was involved. Why? Because it serves as a lesson for other Black people and especially Black politicians that if you're GOING to align yourself with White people, do it with the White people who actually will help you and have your back. Don't just be loyal to a name or party, but align yourself with whoever is serving YOUR best interests and the best interests of your people. ....and in the case of Trump. Even if it's not in the best interests of your people, if it's in YOUR best interests atleast.

-Funny. I don't remember saying all of that shit at the bottom of her quote. Cynique You can't even use the "quote" function properly, talking about some "bring it on". Girl if you don't QUIT and get yourself some much needed rest...lol. I'm glad your eye surgery went well. Now go watch your "Boule Behind The Gates" soap opera or whatever it's called...lol....and finish day dreaming about what you WOULD have done if you had gotten yourself a decent education, lol. Or better yet, go watch some porn and REMINISCE....lol.

Delano I have found statistics and numbers to be more informative than personal observations. If approached with minimal bias numerical analysis is illuminating. You ASSUME it's "informative" because you trust what you're being given. It could be that most of the stats you've actually received...when placed under close examination...were actually flawed and inaccurate. There are certain rules or parameters that have to be met or followed when gathering data. If certain criteria is met you have a biased sample that doesn't represent the population being analysed. Exactly. That's the point I was making earlier with the "sample" of the 7 course meal. The cool thing about statics is even if you don't have a normal sample set you can still perform analysis of the data. Averages Medians and Modes can be quite infomative. "Quite informative" and "exact" are not synonymous terms. In addition looking at data graphically can show you some trends. However they may only apply to you have collected, if it is not a representative sample. It depends on WHO'S collecting and presenting the data and for what purpose. Troy Using your reasoning, there is no truth. Do you believe the census figures to be 100% accurate. No. But again, I think they are CLOSER to accurate than the unemployment figures. We all know we can’t possibly be 100% accurate does that make the figures a lie, not the truth? I wouldn't call EVERY case of inaccuracy a "lie" implying deliberate deception; but if they aren't accurate....they certainly aren't the truth UNLESS the words "close to" or "about" or "approximately" are included in those figures, lol. That’s right and the type of samples one collects is important. It would be like trying to call a presidential election by only pulling people in New York City. You need a sufficiently diverse sample set, whether it’s your fictional meal or the voting population. And how do we know we're getting that with most statistics? If you’re not being asked your opinion about something, there might be a reason for it Yea.... When you found out they were planning to contact me, YOU probably told them not to waste their time, lol. unless the poll includes everyone, the data is a lie, and he is more inclined to trust his own intuition and observations. Did I describe your position accurately No. As I said before, I don't expect EVERYONE to be contacted when it comes to most polls. However I do expect a wide variety that represents ALL of America to be and I also pay attention to WHO is doing the polling. If it's being done by those with a history of bias and political deception like Fox News, then those figures should be dismissed anyway. However in theory, if they claim "such and such percent of Americans are this or that" then that poll actually SHOULD include ALL Americans. I know this is very very improbable which is why I said "in theory"....but it WOULD be closer to the actual truth.

ProfD Some police officers are parked in neighborhoods or driveways away from where they live. They'll be in someone's home eating a meal or getting a massage and a happy ending or laying up. This is true...I've OBSERVED this personally. But ofcourse it's only anecdotal, so don't expect to find any studies or official stats on how many cops are screwing citizens and eating free food while on duty...lol. Yep. I beiieve there's complicity among law enforcement allowing dysfunction to play out in communities It's almost common knowledge. Almost as commonly known as them bringing dope in to destabilize the community. Troy The Afro newspaper publishes the weekly murder rates for both DC and Baltimore on the front page. I always wondered about that because I know people are betting on this. Not sure about DC and Baltimore but among certain circles in Western Michigan it's just like playing the regular lottery. They'll bet on the EXACT number of official homicides over the weekend. They'll also bet on "close to" the number. They'll bet on how many got shot and both died AND lived. They do this in work spaces AND in bars. It's mostly White dudes doing it but what's even crazier is some silly Black folks will even get in on those bets even though it's at the expense of the destruction of their own.

Troy What did you like or dislike about Harlem? I like the culture and convenience of Harlem. Not only inside of Harlem itself but being in Manhattan proper you're only minutes away from "the world". And like you said about Spanish Harlem and other parts of Uptown with their own cultures and flavors. Also, like Los Angeles and even Atlanta to a lesser degree when you go to New York you often get to meet celebrities and famous people on the street from time to time...lol. I met the rapper Mase (Mr. pie flippa nigga...crooked "I" sippa )* and Wesley Snipes on different occasions in Harlem! I also like how you can walk down 125 and see Black folks from all over the globe selling shit and WILLING to engage in a conversation with you...lol. The same Africans and Caribbeans who...in Chicago or L.A. wouldn't talk to you...when they're in Harlem: "Hey my bruda! How you doing my bruda! I love to see my brudaz and sistren doing well in America!" Ain't no tethers allowed in Harlem....unless they're driving a taxi and just picking up and dropping off people. Better not step out of it bad mouthing Black Americans...lol. I guess the bruthaz in Harlem MAKE Black immigrants ACT like they got some sense and get some "get right" when they operate among us....lol. But I'm talking Harlem in specific. I can't say the same for the rest of Uptown and New York in general where tethers talk shit about Black Americans all day long with impunity. What I DON'T like about Harlem, is that...like most of New York City it's old and dirty and smells like sewage, lol. Also, it seems in the past 20 years or so more and more of those Latino ran "bodegas" have popped up all over the neighborhoods taking away most of the established Black American businesses. When I first went to Harlem in the 90s...and it was changing then...but it seemed like you had more FBA Black owned businesses in the area and if you DID have a Latino business it was a BLACK Latino. I haven't been to New York in over 10 years but when I was there it seemed like a lot of LIGHT SKINNED Latinos were moving in to that space. More Mexicans, Columbians, and light skinned Puerto Ricans. And it seems as if the Puerto Ricans in New York are getting "whiter" and "whiter" too, but that's a different subject...lol. Next time I go back I want to check out that Schomburg library I hear so much about. *Harlem slang for selling kilos of cocaine and drinking St.Ides liquor....lol

Troy Please define unemployed, that would be a start. An able bodied adult UNDER retirement age who is NOT working or running a business. Period. Simple and easy to understand. Whether they are in between jobs, homeless, incarcerated, stay-at-home spouses/parents....as long as they are able bodied and NOT working then they are counted. The government obviously DOESN'T count most of these people. How old do you have to be to be considered unemployed if you are a 17-year-old who recently graduated from high school and not working are you unemployed? No. Because they aren't an adult. I can understand the argument for wanting to count 16 and 17 year olds, but a line must be drawn somewhere and in my opinion that line should be adulthood. How about a 15-year-old dropout? No, same reasoning. How about a 16-year-old with a child? No, same reasoning. how about the handicapped? No, they have to be able bodied. If they are handicapped adults, they should be getting SSI Although it should be noted that a lot of handicapped people DO work and run businesses. How about the elderly at what age do you stop counting people? Retirement age. 62/65/67 range Do you count the incarcerate, the ones working for slave wages. Yes, unless they're receiving a wage...any type of wage, no matter how unfair. Yes The larger question is how do you define a workforce? Irrelevant. I don't start from the productivity end (who was recently working and lost their job)....I start from the able-bodied adult end and deduce from there. Focusing on the active workforce itself to determine who is and isn't employed in society is like focusing on a prison to determine who is and isn't a criminal in a given society. Your scope is too limited. Come out of the bubble and place the entire society under examination. Again, we know that the department of labor statistics definition does not mesh with your definition. Or an accurate definition period. The question becomes what information would you gather from your stat that will be substantially different from the governments? Then factoring the time cost an energyof collecting the information. Time and cost are irrelevant to the truth. Either it IS or it ISN'T....regardless as to how much it costs or how long it takes to find out. It's a governmental organization and the government literally prints money out of thin air so money shouldn't be an object. As far as time and manpower goes....I can see those being legitimate issues. However we can't used that as an excuse to put out false and inaccurate figures. @Pioneer1 there is a field of math that addresses the issue off sample sizes, margin of error, conference level, sampling method when it comes to collecting data. When it comes to a population as diverse and spread out as the United States..."samples" are a poor representation of the whole. Remember we're dealing with PEOPLE and COMMUNITIES; not holograms where every pixel is a miniature of the whole image. A good illustration would be "sampling" a 7 course meal. If your only "sample" were the braised string beans....that wouldn't be a good representation of the entire meal. Not the potatoes, or the meat, or the gravy, or the drinks. if there’s 340 million people in the United States and you wanna figure out if they’re going to vote or not and which candidate they will choose, you do not need to ask all 340 million people you only need a very small percentage of them to an answer very close to if you asked everyone. If you try to poll everyone, the election would be over before you even collected the data. I understand your point. Similarly, if it took even a year to collect and compile unemployment data, it would have no value because the number would have changed by the time it was reported the monthly number is good enough. I agree. However the fact remains that the weekly/monthly numbers compiled by the methods being used right now are still GROSSLY inaccurate regardless of how difficult or time consuming getting more accurate numbers would be. They need a new and more accurate method. I don't expect perfection, but when it's CLEARLY deceptive...that's where I draw the line and don't accept it. As far as the election and political polls....that's an entire different story all together. I believe many of these "poll numbers" are made-up propaganda put out TO sway the public to vote a certain way or influence candidates to support certain beliefs and avoid others. For example..... 90% of the population could support Universal Healthcare; but during a Presidential Debate Fox News can PUT OUT a bogus "poll" claiming 77% of Americans are against it and this will do a couple things: 1. If the candidates are dumb enough to believe this poll and not question it, they will NOT support Univeral Healthcare with the fear of not getting votes. 2. It will make most of those watching who DO support Universal Healthcare less enthused about their support feeling that they are in the minority when they actually are in the majority. What's really sad is that few people will question this bogus poll or where it came from. This is why I keep asking you and ProfD when was the last time YALL were contacted by a "poll" for something. If every other day or every week a new "poll" comes out for one thing or another whether it's political, social, economic, what-have-you....it seems to me that ALL of us would be getting contacted atleast once a month. Unless there is a group of 200 people sitting on a mountain somewhere who's ONLY job is to respond to polls and represent the American people and instead of contacting the general public....every poll agency simply contacts this secretive 200...lol.

What's even funnier is the fact (anecdotal truth?) that I'm actually TAKING IT EASY on the high yella heifa, lol. I mean....yeah...I thump her upside the head every now and then but I don't really be trying to hurt her like that. It's really just fun and games on my end. Because...I could really have her sitting somewhere with her arms folded rocking back and forth CRYING....if I really wanted to. -But I don't want to DO that to her....lol. I'm not sure if you have but Troy has seen me get down FOR REAL with a couple people who no longer post on this site.

If the police and criminal justice system actually DID THEIR JOBS...there would be no need for a teenage curfew. For example...... Most people of a community KNOW where kids and young adults like to hang out and party and act a fool. The police presence should already BE there or very close to intercept problems before they get out of hand. But instead of being where the crowds are, you'll find most police cruisers sitting in some parking lot of a fast food joint miles away in a quiet neighborhood WAITING on a call. Every Memorial Day weekend the national media focuses on Chicago and how many homicides they anticipate. It's become a national ritual. Infact, in many private circles BETS are taken over how many people are killed and how many shooting (non-fatal) will occur over the weekend. They're not trying increase the safety of the public. They're LETTING it happen.

Troy Yes sir, several times...lol. Speaking of which..... I wouldn't have been surprised at a Kresge or Woolworth's being in Harlem but I WOULD be surprised if they opened up a Walmart in Harlem. Most stores like K-Mart and Wal-Mart and Costco like to open up stores by building their own buildings from scratch and Manhattan is far too dense and expensive for them to do that unless they turned it into a "Walmart sky scraper"....lol.

You didn't have to look it up....I told you that already. But you didn't trust my "anecdotal" information that I arrived at by personal experiences and observation....and instead went with "official" sources....lol.

ProfD Nothing stops us from doing our own research and data collection. I was eventually heading in that direction. I was taking the more "scenic route" with my questioning who is collecting the information and why to illustrate why so many of our people shouldn't be blindly trusting it. Eventually WE need to be collecting the information and compiling the data we need and use. Troy This is why often your arguments become flawed, no one is talking about arbitrary figures stop setting up straw men. In many situations, they may as well be. Let me ask you a question..... Every day on the news there's a new poll out claiming "this" or "that" for things from politics, to religion, to food, to television shows and ratings, to thoughts on the economy, to race relations, etc... When was the last time YOU were contacted for a survey? Besides richardmurray's....lol. Again, you’re arguing semantics. Your definition of unemployment is not the same as the numbers released by the government because of all the things that you described. There are a variety of reasons why they count the number of unemployed people the way that they do. I know. And ONE of those reasons is to DECEIVE and CONFUSE the public about how high the unemployment rate is and convince the public that the economy isn't as bad as it really is. still, we are left with the fact that you have no idea what the percentage of unemployed people are the best you can do is used to date that you have available account for any discrepancies that you feel are in the data than come up with the rough estimate, but again without the data all you can do is pull numbers out of your ass You don't have to go to EITHER extreme....make up numbers or LIMIT the actual figures. Simply count...as best you can....those adults who are ACTUALLY unemployed. It's not perfect, but atleast it would be MORE accurate. For example, you have no clue based upon your personal observations how many people are in the United States right now. In fact, no one knows exactly how many people are here. There’s a census taken every 10 years and that gives us a pretty good estimate. far better than any of us could Divine from walking around and making our own observations. no one not even the US government asserts that that census data are 100% accurate. Using your logic then it’s false and let’s just throw it out because it’s not a fact. But the reality is the number is good enough to do what we need to do with it in most cases. I agree that simply walking around and looking wouldn't give us an accurate estimate of the people in the U.S. I also think the Census method....though not perfect...is MORE accurate than the method for attaining the unemployment rate.

I think you already know the answer to those questions, stop playing....lol.

That CAN'T be me..... I graduated from the "ole school" and we keep our fingernail game MUCH tighter than that joker's....lol.

It won't help because just like "laws" don't stop career criminals from breaking them....curfews won't stop juvenile delinquents from ignoring them. The "good" kids will obey them and stay at home. The rowdy kids will carry on business as usual. Infact, a imposing a curfew on them will ENCOURAGE them to challenge it to show eachother how "bad" they are. What kind of lame ass nigga go stay at home on a hot summer night anyway...lol. "Hey girl, what you doing?" ---------- "No, I'm at home." ------------- "Yeah....I'm....yeah...no...I'm at the crib". ------------- "Ah girl you KNOW I want to but the news said that if you're under 17 you have to be -HELLO???? HELLO???" ((dial her back)) "Hey, did you hang up on m-HELLO????? HELLO???"

I'm not sure if they were everywhere in the nation but in the Detroit area we had a cheap store called Kresge's. It turned eventually turned into K-mart which IS nationwide. But I remember the Kresge's as a kid where you could go inside and not only shop but dine. Every store had a little hamburger stand where you could order burgers, fries, hot dogs, salads and other lunch foods. Maybe it's because I was just a kid but I LOVED their cheap ass burgers...lol. And this particular store used to put RELISH on their hamburgers instead of pickles...and I LOVED that shit, lol.

frankster Same difference.. It ain't the "same difference" man...lol. Less violent isn't the same as TOLERANT and AMICABLE, any more than less than 2 months pregnant with no "baby bump" showing, is the same as NOT pregnant at all. I did not say they are more violent....just that they are more conflicts battles and wars in S. America than in Africa. Help a brutha out.... What war is going on in South America? What determines Actuality?? It's current state of "being". If it BE/IS now...it's actual. Surprisingly we agree....maybe not for the same reasons - or Listen, as long as we agree...I'll take THAT, lol. Who care what roads we took, as long as we arrived at the same destination.