Pioneer1

Perhaps we should invent (perhaps one already exists) a NEW WORD that encapsulates the knowledge and the methods used to arrive at this knowledge by human beings both modern and ancient which would INCLUDE "science" and the scientific method but would also include much much more. Again, to call what the Africans and Native Americans did and how they did it "science" would be like going up to a Jewish or Buddhist and asking them about their "church". What they have isn't called that. And what the Africans and Native Americans had wasn't called "science". But if people want to continue to use that term for lack of a better one until a new one is invented or revived....I understand.

I don't know why I was disappointed in this thread..... A thread that was advertised as a CONFESSIONAL but turned out to be a verbalized DAY DREAM. But given the pattern, I guess I should have KNOWN better.....lol.

Troy I know facts, no matter how compellingly presented, have not moved you to change your opinion on a subject in the past. Lol, have you considered using the SCIENTIFIC METHOD? Do an experiment............. Instead of lamenting and shaking your head over why I simple don't abandon my beliefs, fall in line, and agree like a Trump supporter....lol.....why not try actually presenting some FACTS to me that clearly deny the existence of race, and approaching me with logic and rationality. Then we'll SEE if I reject it.

And here I was expecting to open up the thread and read REAL ACTUAL CONFESSIONS to some sort of inappropriateness or possibly criminal behavior of the past....lol.

What continues to amaze me is how Communist and presumable mostly atheist nations like China and North Korea produce people with such uptight conservative and supposedly moralist values. For example.......... Most of the Chinese I know are strict on studying, are serous about marriage and monogamy, and are quite loyal to their families. Although I don't DISAGREE with these attributes, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me how a person who doesn't believe in The Supreme Being nor a life after physical death will be so disciplined and moral. I've even pulled many Chinese and Koreans to the side and asked them these questions! "If you don't believe in God or any afterlife why are you wasting time working hard and getting married? If you're gonna die like an animal why not just have as much fun as you can right now before you go?" Most of the time they'll sit there looking at me with pleasant looks on their faces or talk some nonsense about "family expectations". I admit that many of them are clearly successful, but the motives and behavior of some of these people just doesn't make a lot of sense to me given what they claim to believe or not believe. On a similar note, I still don't know why atheists....especially atheist men....get married, lol.

Troy Lol..... I might pick up a copy and browse through it if I remember to do so when I'm out and about BUT....what difference should a magazine article make to me? I've been studying and pondering the issue of race for over 30 years and the conclusions are all over the map; why should ONE ARTICLE from the National Geographic give me some sort of epiphany? Pioneer asserts that his opinion is factually correct despite ample evidence to counter it. Exactly what opinion have I asserted as factually correct and what was the evidence to counter it? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't YOU YOURSELF say a while back you didn't have the time nor the evidence to actually refute my beliefs that more than one race exists? So how can you be so cock-sure that your beliefs on the issue are infallible?

Troy Pioneer, equating science to the "west" is like equating religion or spirituality to the west. Don't get caught up in western language and constructs. African the cultures that predated western civilization engaged in what we might call science and religion. I'm inclined to agree with you on religion because the definition of what constitutes a "religion" is so vague that many of the practices around the world from past to present can be labled as religion or religious. But again, calling the knowledge ancient cultures "science"....while I understand what you MEAN when you say "science".....I have to go back to the fact that what they knew did not fall under the technical concept of "science" as it is known in the West. Again.............. Don't confuse KNOWLEDGE with SCIENCE For it to be "science" it has to be derived from a strictly specified type of method that simply didn't exist back then. Del What's te difference between Eastern and Western Science. @Troy Great question!

Even the Arabs are getting on the Black Panther train! https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/‘black-panther’-to-break-saudi-arabia’s-35-year-cinema-ban/ar-AAvuNGe?OCID=ansmsnnews11 They're breaking rules in their own countries just to see this movie.

It's weird how America makes you feel. I remember going to Belgium and while I was at the airport a woman I didn't know walked up to me very close handed me an expensive camera and asked me to take a picture of her and her friends. I stood there stunned for about 5 seconds before she apologized thinking she may have been bothering me. I apologized myself and took the picture and explained to her why I reacted the way I did.....lol. This is why I constantly encourage Black people to get out and visit other parts of the planet from time to time just to experience a different type of reality. Sometime as simple as just sitting on a park bench and having a complete stranger who is White or Arab sit down next to you and start a conversation with you is common in Canada but almost unheard of (unless he's gay) in the United States....lol. Del I heard they banned Hip Hop in China. Is it true? Are they showing any rap music on the television over there? Any hiphop magazines? Obviously you can use the internet, but are there some sites that you're restricted from using?

While I'm not against it, I would much rather Black people focus on getting the government (federal, state, and local) to DO THEIR JOBS and adequately fund these schools so that they don't have to rely on charity and philanthropic donations to meet their needs! The government has BILLIONS of dollars to invest in education....if they really wanted to. They don't need Disney's little 2 or 3 million. I love seeing girls in bikinis. But seeing public school girls running around in bikinis washing cars just to raise money for their softball or basketball team???? Seriously?????? Boys going door to door begging people to buy candy bars just to raise money for their football equipment??????? What happened to all of his lottery money that they claimed would go to help the schools?

I always find it interesting how people try to separate "religion" from "a way of life". A religion IS a way of life. Or atleast that is what it's supposed to and designed to be. The problem is most people in the West don't practice the religions that they preach or claim to believe in so many grow up believing that "religion" is merely something that you do one or two days out of the week rather than 24/7. Also, the author....like most people....is equating KNOWLEDGE with SCIENCE. The two are pretty much synonymous in today's colloquial conversation. But technically.......Native Americans and Africans didn't practice "science". They had their own sets of knowledge, beliefs, procedures, and other concepts. But "science" in it's most literal sense actually belongs to the West because "science" involves a particular and specific set of procedures in order for it to be accepted. So to call the knowledge of ancient Africans and Native Americans "science" would be like calling their ancient places of worship "churches".

Being able to buy liquor and get into bars at an earlier age was one of the main reasons I started going to Canada! But after finding out how much Canadian women loved Black men, me and my friends stopped going to bars and clubs there and just started haning out at the malls for free....lol. In Detroit the two most popular ways of going to Canada was either on the Ambassador bridge or through the Windsor tunnel and when I was a kid most Black people would tell you stay away from the tunnel and take the bridge. Back in the day, the Ambassador Bridge was owned by the Queen of England and they rarely searched you and your car or gave you a hard time when you went across. No hassles. But things are different now, especially since 9/11. Now people of color.....Black, Latino, and Arab....get hassled left and right either by bridge or by tunnel. Black men get stopped by Border Patrol Agents and get asked all types of crazy and personal questions....and you STILL are subject to being pulled over and searched for 2 hours. Meanwhile, a car full of drunk White teenagers with their feet hanging out the window gets to pass on through with no problems.

Troy Now you freely admit that you have no clue how the builders of the Pyramids acquired the knowledge to construct. Given you lack of knowledge on the subject how can you be so positive how they were not constructed? By a rational process of elimination. The "scientific method" is a relatively recent concept that was developed by Western scientists well within the past 500 years. The pyramids were constructed over 10,000 years ago! So whatever method they used to construct the pyramids it COULDN'T have been the "scientific method" that didn't exist at the time. It is interesting that you mentioned experimenting as a possibility. You said you understood the scientific method. If you do then you'd also know that experimentation is part of that process. Now I'm not saying the process was called "science" 5 thousand years ago, but likely the practice was the same -- and certainly more plausible than anything else you come up with. Regardless of whatever similarities may have been shared between the ancient pyramid builders and modern scientists.....the "scientific method" was NOT used to construct the pyramid. It would be like saying Alexander Graham Bell used the Android cell phone to design his newly invented telephone.

Yes. I've been to dozens, but I only "frequently" post on maybe 3 or 4.....including yours. But I can't give you any names because I don't want to risk "cross contamination"......lol. If I logged on to one of them one day and found CYNIQUE all up on there cheesing and opinionating......there's no telling what I'd do, lol. To be honest, I'd much rather deal with people in real life than on the internet, especially after knowing them a while. This is one of the reasons I don't care too much for facebook or twitter. The computer doesn't carry the same type of "spirit" or energy as actually hearing a person's voice or seeing their expression in person.

Man, you two brothers sure do get around.....lol. I love to hear about Black men traveling the globe. If I had the money I would too. Some of the brothers and sisters I've worked with over the years who have good corporate jobs are always talking about their travels to Brazil, Hong Kong, Singapore, South Africa, ect....... When they do I often sit there dreaming and wondering what would have happend if I had focused more on my grades in school and tried harder to get through college, lol. Most of the Black boys in the schools I went to were focused on basketball, girls, and smoking weed....lol. I encourage Black men to get out of the United States from time to time just to see how other people live and how they're treated abroad so they can recognize the difference and compare it when they get back home. Especially how the women treat them. When I actually lived in Detroit I used to go to Canada every weekend and just going right across the border I saw a huge difference in how the people behaved and how they treated me.

Even if you and I combined all of our anecdotes, on the subject, this would not be proof, no matter how good it made us feel or how right we feel we are. Are a stack of research papers from Duke University supposed to suffice as "proof"????? The only REAL proof for a person is to either experience or witnessing whatever is being said to them. And because of this, if you really take it for what it's worth - so-called "scientific data" being presented to the individual is no more valid than anecdotes being presented to them. After all, BOTH are just second-hand narratives about a particular experience. -Grandma sitting at her kitchen table telling you what she knows about collard greens. -A White man in a white coat and glasses is standing there with a folder telling you what HE has concluded about greens. Which one do we go with? Who should we trust for our information? Personally, I believe that anecdotes from RELIABLE people are more trustworthy than "data" from dubious sources.

Now Troy, you know I'm not a scholar like you. Instead of making me dig up the article and read it....why don't you just give me a summary? I can believe that both girls are biological sisters. However instead of the cover reading "Black and White" it should read: GREY and White.....lol. Because the girl on the right CLEARLY isn't Black. She's mixed race. Furthermore...... Because I believe the the determining factors of race are predominately phenotypical (the way you look) I believe that even siblings from the same parents can actually be of different races! In other words: Regardless of you ancestry, as far as I'm concerned.... If you LOOK White....you ARE White! If you LOOK Black....you ARE Black! Your race is what YOU are, not what your ancestors or even your parents are.

I used to post on LSA but I kind of eased off and it's been a while since I've been back there. Perhaps I'm being a little too judgmental but to me Lipstick Alley was too heavily moderated and a bit "anti-male". Most of the posters and moderators are female which isn't a problem EXCEPT for my noticing that most females seem to like HEAVILY moderated sites where they can "flag" posts they don't like and call them offensive. Instead of ignoring a post that they don't like, many will go running to the moderator to "tattle tale" and get it erased. As far as it being anti-male, I just noticed that giving a man's point of view on certain things was often seen as offensive and you definitately couldn't criticize homosexuality and gay men. Some of the posters were calling eachother "trolls" and "agents" over the slightest disagreements. When I look at sites like that..... It's sad that after all the discrimination and injustice Black people face from so many other groups that too often they'll turn around and be unjust and intolerate of eachother's opinions ot the point that they'll try to get eachother in trouble.

Troy When you said "we already saw this movie", what exactly did you mean? As far as experiencing things....... I'm talking strictly about movies and other forms of media, not everything. And again, unless there is a direct threat of hypnotic suggestion or subliminal messaging, I fail to see the HARM in those who are psychologically balanced viewing movies and other forms of media they may or may not agree with so that they can atleast dissect it. Now if a person is prone to hallucinations and delusions and believe what they're seeing is REAL, then perhaps they should be protected from viewing certain films....for their own saftey and perhaps the safety of those around them. But for most people, besides boredom....what harm would it be to drop $10 or $15 at your local theater and check the flick out so you can ATLEAST know what you're talking about when you criticize it. Some of these online review critics and all of their conspiracy theories about the film that only THEY seem to have picked upon sound more like propagandists than the film itself.....lol.

Troy You'll also notice a precipitous drop on the number of Black American-nonbiracial-straight-male novelists who promoted to a wide audience. I don't have firm numbers, but........ Ahhh..... It seems to me you're begining to recognize the convenience of ANECDOTAL examples.....lol. Cynique SMH. No - stop doing that honey. That MIGHT be causing your problem.....lol. Like many of our people, you seem to have this erroneous notion that Booker T. Washington's goal was to condition Black people to be good passive workers for White folks; when in all acuality what Washington wanted was for Black people to be as INDEPENDENT of White people as possible. He wanted the newly freed AfroAmericans to be SELF-RELIANT so that they wouldn't have to go around begging White people do feed, clothe, and shelter them....as many are doing today. Washington didn't object to Black people going to college in the least. But he...like me...recognized that MOST of our people weren't going to go to college or become professionals (no matter how much you push for it) so he advocated for most of our people learning necessary life skills that would allow them to build communities and support themselves.

Lol, the backing of most White liberals is one of the major reasons why it will NOT be effective. Franklin Roosevelt was a wealthy White liberal who was a blessing to this nation, but since the 70s I'd say over 90% of so-called White liberals in the United States fall into 2 categories: 1. Double agents who only PRETEND to support progressive causes but simply seek to gather intelligence and relay it back to right wing organizations like the Republican party and the NRA. Or..... 2. Actually sincere people who are kind hearted and have a decent since of justice but because of their lack of assertiveness are generally too ineffective in actually changing policies or social conditions. This type will get out and march and protest with Black Lives Matter all year long but when it comes to confronting their racist brother-in-law during ThanksGiving and asking him to give up his guns.....they remain silent. Nor will they confront the racist manager at their job. In other words, all they can do is feel sorry and lend an empathetic ear but can't or won't really do anything. I learned this a while back, which is why most of the success I've had dealing with White people were with those I would call moderate and even conservative. I knew that atleast they COULD grant me what I asked for whether they would or not. And I also got along with them much better because I knew the boundaries.

Troy You're absolutely right. But analogies were meant to be taken on FACE VALUE....lol.

Troy Maybe, but you friend has a point @Pioneer1; sometimes not exposing yourself to propaganda is the best defense. In my thinking, this is EXACTLY what he did when he listened to critics and pretty much let THEM decide whether or not the movie was worth seeing.....instead of seeing it for himself. Some movies are propaganda. But sometimes the propaganda is actually in the CRITIQUE of the movie by critics with an agenda to besmirch it. So I get it when some people actively avoid seeing the film and refuse to expose themselves to Disney's propaganda. There is a part of me that wished I had not paid to see the film. But I'm not going to beat myself up over it, because I'm not nearly as susceptible to the hype as most seem to be. So it is not always best to see things for yourself. There are other ways to acquire knowledge, reading is one. We can probably both agree that even reading the TRANSCRIPTS of a movie carries only a fraction of the effect on an individual than of actually watching it. How much less of an effect would reading the writings....not of the movie....but simply of people discussion it, be? And how much DISTORTION from the actual film itself is produced in the minds of those who have never seen the film but get their only information on it from 2nd and 3rd hand sources? The only reasonable excuse for a person not to actually watch a film is if they suspect some SUBLIMINAL programing going on in the film (seriously). Outside of that danger...... I don't see any harm in an intellectually well balanced individual subjecting themselves to movies that may have had negative reviews in order to atleast make an educated and informed decision. In some cases, the best thing to do IS to see a film that is supposedly harmful and part of a larger propaganda machine in order to study and dismantle it. In most professional endeavors people are taught to study their opponents to not only learn about them but to come up with the best strategies to counter them.

White kids marching will have the same affect as White women marching...... NONE AT ALL. Because the powers that be know that after all that marching and shouting and fist pumping, at the end of the day both the White woman and the White child are still coming home to THEM. The only time mass numbers of citizens change social or political policy is when BLACK CITIZENS changed it.

Troy I think one of the biggest reasons so many wealthy Black people DO NOT support eachother is because the fear pissing off their White benefactors. I've seen this even among some of the well to do AfroAmericans in my community. Most Blacks of wealth aren't generating their wealth on their own, they're getting it FROM White people to perform a service. And they're afraid that if they unite with other Black people and their White support sees this.....it may "spook" them into fearing some sort of Black uprise and cause them to yank their support away. So they figure it's best to stay away from eachother and I also recognize the world has moved on to "diversity." which basically means everyone except healthy, heterosexual, white men. One COULD argue that after the year 2000 there's been a sort of NEO-diversity being promoted in schools and in the corporate world that accepts everyone except HETEROSEXUAL BLACK MEN. 　 　 　 K2 AALBC, participation for me is personal, not economical; offering me insight into in the State of African American affairs level of interest in African American interest in Black literary and related information. As an organization, I believe it can be vital importance to our community. I don't know how long you've been out the country but..... AALBC and the conversations here DO NOT represent the interests and state of affairs of typical African Americans....lol. 　 Cynique To me, this advocacy harks back to Booker T. Washington who made white people extremely happy by supporting the idea that blacks should restrict their aspirations to excelling at manual labor, and the tilling of the soil. Nooooooo. That's a rather simplistic and frankly MISREPRESENTATION of Booker T. Washington's philosophy of independence and Black self reliance. Would a man who advocated restricting Blacks to manual labor produce great Black scientists like George Washington Carver?????