Tell Me: What's Wrong With This Story And Picture?

[Pioneer1]

A Black Trans Woman Was Killed in Her Home in Greece

Story by Samantha Riedel • Yesterday 3:24 PM

 

 

Anna Ivankova, a Black transgender woman from Cuba who was also known as Anna Hernández and Ivanka, was found dead in her apartment in Athens, Greece earlier this week. She was 46 years old.

According to information released by Greek police, Ivankova’s body was discovered by her landlord, who had come to collect the rent. She had been repeatedly stabbed with a sharp object and died of hemorrhagic shock early in the morning on Monday, July 10. Her death is being investigated as a homicide.

 

 

 

 

Although police referred to Ivankova as a “person” in their news releases, the Athens News Agency misgendered her as a “man” in initial coverage — a mistake other Greek news outlets copied, spreading misinformation about her identity and death, according to reporting by the independent Greek fact-checking organization Ellinika Hoaxes.

 

“Anna was a trans woman with multiple vulnerabilities as, in addition to her gender identity, she was a refugee, Black, and occasionally [a] sex worker,” wrote the Transgender Support Association, a Greek trans advocacy group, in a press release translated from Greek. Ivankova had joined the association in 2017, they wrote, after fleeing her native Cuba and seeking asylum in Greece; activists with the group had been assisting Ivankova with her claim.

 

“She was active in the artistic field of the LGBTI+ community,” the release continued, “while in recent years she worked as a dancer-performer.” Many LGBTQ+ Athenians knew Ivankova from the popular nightclub and drag venue Koukles, where she regularly took the stage, per her Instagram.

Organizers added that, to their knowledge, Ivankova's death was “the first recorded murder of a trans woman refugee and sex worker in our country.”

Ivankova’s friends remember her as a “passionate, proud woman who never gave up,” according to El País. As the outlet reported, she left Cuba after being arrested multiple times by transphobic police, fleeing first to Russia, then to Serbia, Macedonia, and finally landing in Greece. But Greece itself is a deeply conservative country, with voters sending a concerning slate of anti-LGBTQ+ politicians to parliament in last month’s elections. “We’ve already detected an increase in attacks after the elections,” said Sofía Zachariadi, co-founder of the LGBTQ+ refugee advocacy group Emantes. “It’s a very hard blow that completely changes our agenda compared to when we started in 2016.”

 

 

 

Police have charged a man Jacob Williamson met through the internet with first-degree murder.

Greece scored just 52 out of 100 possible points for LGBTQ+ equality in a 2022 ranking of EU nations published by IGLA-Europe, an independent LGBTQ+ advocacy group.

 

On Tuesday, the day after Ivankova’s murder, El País reported that thousands of people assembled in the square of Agios Panteleimonas, the district where Ivankova lived. The tone was a mixture of grief and fury, especially directed at the Greek far right. Protestors carried signs with slogans like “Anger and rage, we miss Anna,” “Anna lives, let’s hang the Nazis,” and “for every machista and transphobe, there’s a hottie with a tire iron.” Organizers say more protests are on the way, hopefully bringing change to the streets of Greece.

 

“Until now the queer movement has been mainly white,” Zachariadi added. “We want to [support] the refugee population, [so that they can] participate with force and have greater representation.”

 

A Black Trans Woman Was Killed in Her Home in Greece (msn.com)

 

[Pioneer1]

Ok....I'll give you a hint.........

The person in the photo....in the words of Joe Biden:  AIN'T BLACK.


I told you this was where the "identity politics" of trans-genderism was heading.

If they can get you to call a man a woman simply because he "identifies" as one.....soon you'll have to call White folks "Black" simply because they "identify" as such.
 

[ProfD]

No surprise how they're trying to spin this non-story. I'm sure the killer won't get as much press.

[Troy]

How do you come to learn of this story @Pioneer1?  I looked the call letters are from a station in Charlotte, NC

 

Again, just because you say they are not Black is a matter of your opinion.

 

On 7/15/2023 at 1:18 PM, Pioneer1 said:

soon you'll have to call White folks "Black" simply because they "identify" as such

 

Dude, all of these designations are completely arbitrary (there is no genetic test for Black).  If someone you define as white wants to identify as Black there is really nothing you can do about it.  

 

@Pioneer1 (anyone) Is Rock Newman Black?

 

[ProfD]

36 minutes ago, Troy said:

 (anyone) Is Rock Newman Black?

Yep.  Rock Newman is a Black man. 

[Troy]

@ProfD, lets see what @Pioneer1 has to say about it

 

[frankster]

 

 

Remember Rachel or was it Nkechi....

[Troy]

The fact she got away with it, running a NAACP chapter, ought to tell you how arbitrary race is...

 

Then there is Walter White;

 

"I am a Negro. My skin is white, my eyes are blue, my hair is blond. The traits of my race are nowhere visible upon me." 

 

[ProfD]

Until race is no longer being used to murder, maim or marginalize and cause other types of harm, pain and suffering to Black people, we should remain vigilant in whom we trust and who we allow to be amongst us.

 

While race may be considered an arbitrary construct, the system of racism white supremacy and its tethers are very real.

 

 

[richardmurray]

@Troy

The phenotypical range is human craft but genes do influence melanin levels, if someone was to judge my said genes that would be as close to a test of skin color based on melanin that one can create. Will it solve everything ? no. Fredi Washington who played peola in the original "immitation of life" was a true peola. Any measure stick of her melanin gene production will place her out of a black/non black divide cause to accept her melanin production in will be to then say all humans are black. But, Freid Washington in terms of her like was true to being black whereas many black people who would have no trouble passing a melanin gene production test have actions that are detrimental or worse to black people en masse. 

So, a melanin test could be something deemed adequate or as some like to say very ignorantly, based on science, but it wouldn't be functional to the communal need that most  racial tests fail but all racial  are trying to achieve. Cause some human in their actions always goes against racial definitions, sooner or later. 

[Troy]

@richardmurray If a Black couple has an albino child would they be "Black" or white? 

 

All normal humans produce melanin, so then we would be forced to looking at the degree of one's melanin production (as you've defined it) to determine racial categories.

 

Does Melanin production change over time?  Can people be white at birth become Black in adulthood.  How does melanin production change based upon environment.  If a white person in the northern hemisphere moved close to the equator, can they slip into Blackness?

 

I don't know the science of genetics of melanin production, but I'm pretty confident like most human characteristics that there is not a single gene that defines this and that There probably epigenic factors as well.  Do you really want to go down this road with @Pioneer1 

 

Now that you mention it, it would be more accurate to describe humanity as "Black" rather that dividing us into to the completely arbitrarily-subjective racist defined colors like Black, white, red, and yellow.

 

18 hours ago, ProfD said:

While race may be considered an arbitrary construct, the system of racism white supremacy and its tethers are very real.

 

Absolutely (race is factually an arbitrary construct BTW). 

 

How then do we end racism?  Surely, it can't be by perpetuating the concept of race?

[ProfD]

22 minutes ago, Troy said:

Absolutely (race is factually an arbitrary construct BTW). 

 

How then do we end racism?  Surely, it can't be by perpetuating the concept of race?

IMO, even if it wasn't by race (color), human beings would still group themselves by some other common traits (ethnicity ) and sub-divide by differences (tribes).   

 

I believe it was by divine design that we have difference races (colors) and groups of people. 

 

However, all human beings should respect each other despite their differences.

 

Racism is a problem in that race (color) is used to subjugate and/or destroy others.

[richardmurray]

@Troy

 you asked questions so I will answer

you asked

Quote

If a Black couple has an albino child would they be "Black" or white? 

 

+

Quote

Does Melanin production change over time?  Can people be white at birth become Black in adulthood?  How does melanin production change based upon environment? If a white person in the northern hemisphere moved close to the equator, can they slip into Blackness?

 

based on what I said

Quote

The phenotypical range is human craft but genes do influence melanin levels, if someone was to judge my said genes that would be as close to a test of skin color based on melanin that one can create. Will it solve everything ? no. Fredi Washington who played peola in the original "immitation of life" was a true peola. Any measure stick of her melanin gene production will place her out of a black/non black divide cause to accept her melanin production in will be to then say all humans are black. But, Freid Washington in terms of her like was true to being black whereas many black people who would have no trouble passing a melanin gene production test have actions that are detrimental or worse to black people en masse. 

So, a melanin test could be something deemed adequate or as some like to say very ignorantly, based on science, but it wouldn't be functional to the communal need that most  racial tests fail but all racial  are trying to achieve. Cause some human in their actions always goes against racial definitions, sooner or later. 

the question is, if someone decides to use melanin production as a determining factor on phenotypical race< race of appearance> then what happens with

Albinos?

changes in melanin production as a person ages?

changes in melanin production based on environment?

 

I will answer in order, based on the system quoted above   for the record, I am not suggesting I support or desire said system, but my point is only to prove a system can be utilized to determine phenotype not based on the eyes but on something that can be applied to all humans. ... 

To Albinos, some , some suggest albinism is an error gene, so albinos can be considered a separate class altogether. Melanated<blacks/whites> + Albinos

To changes as people age, all genetic factors change as humans age, bone production < calcium> color of hair or eyes or skin <melanin> semen quality< prostate > and all others and an assessment of genetic activity can be made to assess how it works. So as human beings reach maturity their melanin production changes and based on the system above an assessment of melanin production as a child or before maturity  can be used to assess thus any changes in time can be negated as factors. 

To changes based on environment, again melanin production can be studied and even though I don't support this system I can easily see a percent increase or decrease given for environment, that puts those with a certain ceiling in melanin production non black and those with a certain floor in melanin production black. 

 

Yes, deoxyribonucleicacid isn't like a old computer with the dotted cards, but it is a controller or manipulator within the context of a complex cellular environment which all living things are. It isn't that one sequence determines all but it is a controller a manipulator. Other sequences have a role to play as well, but genetics studies have already shown genetics can be used to assess melanin production as a determinant of race. And that is my simple point. It's false to say phenotypical race can not be assessed in a way that suits the european scientific method. And I repeat, I am not suggesting I support said system , just that it can be done.  

 

so I am not riding with @Pioneer1

[Pioneer1]

On 7/17/2023 at 9:20 AM, Troy said:

How do you come to learn of this story @Pioneer1?  I looked the call letters are from a station in Charlotte, NC

 

Again, just because you say they are not Black is a matter of your opinion.

 

 

Dude, all of these designations are completely arbitrary (there is no genetic test for Black).  If someone you define as white wants to identify as Black there is really nothing you can do about it.  

 

@Pioneer1 (anyone) Is Rock Newman Black?

 

 

 

Well, first of all......SCIENCE isn't based on "my opinion"....but on BIOLOGICAL FACTS.

Because race is a scientific category....it's supported by BIOLOGICAL FACTS.

Just like the difference between MALES and FEMALES are based on BIOLOGICAL FACTS, not opinions or political correctness.

This "anybody can be of any race" mess is nothing but a scheme for White youth to steal the Black identity and get their Reparations money later.

But to answer your question: NO

Rock Newman OBVIOUSLY isn't "Black" racially.....regardless of his ancestry/background.
However he IS an AfroAmerican.

AfroAmerican is his ethnicity and cultural heritage.

As far as Walter White.....that's a STRAIGHT UP White man.
I don't give a damn what he "calls" himself, lol.

As long as people have mouths or can write....they can call themselves whatever they want.
But those in authority with knowledge and good sense will continue to enforce biological identity.

[Troy]

12 hours ago, ProfD said:

IMO, even if it wasn't by race (color), human beings would still group themselves by some other common traits (ethnicity ) and sub-divide by differences (tribes).   

Of course.  History tells us this. 
 

10 hours ago, richardmurray said:

genetics studies have already shown genetics can be used to assess melanin production as a determinant of race.

Please provide a link to one such study.

 

5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Because race is a scientific category....it's supported by BIOLOGICAL FACTS.

please provide a source that says “race” Is a scientific category or fact.

 

5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Rock Newman OBVIOUSLY isn't "Black" racially.....regardless of his ancestry/background.
However he IS an AfroAmerican.

Wait, so works Rock Newman qualify for reparations?

 

 @Pioneer1  Is Barack Obama Black? Is he an AfroAmerican?

[richardmurray]

@Troy

I will provide my attempt at an answer to your question. But I want you to answer mine first.  

Here is my preface to my question. Race comes in many forms. Two forms are gender + phenotype <appearance>
Now in my life many, not most or all, black people in my offline life, have spoken as you and said:  Phenotypical race can't be proven. But I  don't even comprehend that statement. Gender race is based on the same system  that phenotypical race is. The biomolecular system in living organisms, based on cells working with DNA + RNA. Your brain, your phenotype <what you call race> your gender all based on said system. What needs to be proven? Now,  Phenotypical race doesn't suggest a leap outside of a species. In my attempt to comprehend, maybe you side other blacks seem to confuse phenotypical race as a pathway to an ahumanization, meaning a thing making something human outside humanity. But while I call myself Black and other humans white I don't think white people are inhuman. So I don't comprehend what you side other black people's real goal is. Do you want black people to stop calling themselves black, or white people to stop calling themselves white? Do you want to stop those, white or black,  who want to use phenotype to suggest a species split? Do you want want human beings to stop being human, it is in human nature to love plus hate? I don't comprehend what you side black people who share your need to have some mythological grand proof of phenotypical race truly want. I admit ignorance. I don't get what you really want in the discourse, cause no study in the world to anything is faultless or perfect. 

Now to my attempt at an answer, but I must repeat beforehand, no study in the world to anything is without fair refute, it is the nature of philosophy or knowledge to have refute. That is why in arithmetic, every algorithm has the unknown constant, even when not written. 
Anyway, 
I quote, this is from the introduction but I took these statements specifically cause they refer to past studies not the study of the article.

"Several genome-wide association studies for pigmentation have now been conducted and identified single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) markers in known, TYR, TYRP1, OCA2, SLC45A2, SLC24A5, MC1R, ASIP, KITLG and previously unknown SLC24A4, IRF4, TPCN2, candidate genes. The contribution of SNP polymorphisms present in populations from South Asia have been tested and alleles found at TYR, SLC45A2 and SLC24A5 can largely account for differences between those of darkest and lightest skin reflectance using a simple additive model. Skin and hair colour associations in Europeans are found within a range of pigmentation gene alleles, whereas blue-brown eye colour can be explained by a single SNP proposed to regulate OCA2 expression. Functional testing of variant alleles has begun to connect phenotype correlations with biological differences. Variant MC1R alleles show direct correlations between the biochemical signalling properties of the encoded receptor and the red-hair fair skin pigmentation phenotype. Direct testing of a range of clonal melanocyte cultures derived from donor skin tissue characterized for three causal SNPs within SLC45A2, SLC24A5 and OCA2 has assessed their impact on melanin content and tyrosinase enzyme activity. From a culmination of genetic and functional studies, it is apparent that a number of genes impacting melanosome biogenesis or the melanin biosynthetic pathway are candidates to explain the diversity seen in human pigmentation."

https://academic.oup.com/hmg/article/18/R1/R9/2901093

 

I read one of your questions to Pioneer. 

 

Based on how I define, Black, Mulatto, African American, Black American, DOS, I say the following. Please ask for my definition of said terms as they are not universally adopted. Barack Obama is Black, Mulattto, African American,  Black American . He isn't a DOSer though. He is a DOW descended of the willing, meaning black people who willingly immigrated to the usa, which is the comparative label to DOSer in the black community in the usa. 

[Pioneer1]

18 hours ago, Troy said:

Of course.  History tells us this. 
 

Please provide a link to one such study.

 

please provide a source that says “race” Is a scientific category or fact.

 

Wait, so works Rock Newman qualify for reparations?

 

 @Pioneer1  Is Barack Obama Black? Is he an AfroAmerican?

No Obama isn't Black and Yes he's AfroAmerican.

So.......
If I provide links to prove that science supports "race"....will you finally change your position to accept that there are multiple races?

Do I have your word you'll do this?

If not....what's the point in going through all of the trouble for you to only rehash this argument again a few months later....lol.

[Troy]

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

If I provide links to prove that science supports "race"....will you finally change your position to accept that there are multiple races?

Of course!  What is holding you up? We’ve been at this for more than a decade. 

 

So Kamala Harris and Malcolm X are not Black, according to @Pioneer1  as they both pass the brown bag test. Malcolm even have red hair putting him firmly in the white  race, right Pioneer?

 

2 hours ago, richardmurray said:

What needs to be proven?

what you are saying is based upon what your eyes tell you, not what our genes say. Genetically we are essentially identical. There is no test for race. For this reason. 

[ProfD]

2 hours ago, Troy said:

Genetically we are essentially identical. There is no test for race. For this reason.

True that.

 

The reason a man and woman from any race can procreate is because human beings are 99.9% similar genetically. 

 

The racial designation (black, white, yellow, red and brown) gets sorted like laundry once that zygote shows up on the set as a person.

 

Since race has been used to build and maintain the system of racism white supremacy, it's the hand we've been dealt and must deal with in order to dismantle it.

[richardmurray]

@Troy

In my reply I quoted researchers at oxford who clearly stated genes are behind appearance, in particular melanin production. So why can't melanin production be used to dictate phenotypical race? 

 

But I do comprehend the problem. You and others seem to think phenotypical race is or can be substituted for biological race. Again, each type of race has rules. Gender race <male/female/hermaphrodite>isn't based on the air. it is based on sexual organs within members of the same species. biological race<human/cro magnon/bluejay/tigershark/fern> isn't based on the sea. it is based on the variance of the dna molecule between species. phenotypical race<black/white> isn't based on the stars, it is based on appearance which is derived from elements of the dna sequence... between members of the same species. Linguistic race<anglo/latin/sino/bantu> isn't based on fire. it is based on the language someone speaks most effectively. Geographic race < african/european/asian> isn't based on the sun. It is based on the geography of where one's ancestry comes from. 

You and others seem to think, very erroneously, that discussion or concepts around phenotypical race can justify or prove that members of the same species are not members of the same species.  Who told you that? 

Yes , white europeans have tried to use and still try to use and do legalize to suggest or had laws stop that suggest phenotypical race or geographic race can can lead to a determination of a different species for humans with an appearance other than white or a geographic root other than european. But, that is merely a false conclusion that they used their military power to instill.  But that doesn't mean that any two  members of the same species are the same.   They are not. Similar? yes. Identical or essentially identical or near identical? 100% no. 

 

I want to say , I will always refute 100% that genetics makes any two members of the same species essentially identical or near identical or functionally identical or identical. My comprehension of chemistry or biology or cellular activity or the delicacy that is biocellular activity does not allow for such a position to be deemed true. 

[ProfD]

8 hours ago, richardmurray said:

But that doesn't mean that any two  members of the same species are the same.   They are not. Similar? yes. Identical or essentially identical or near identical? 100% no. 

Sure. No two members of a species are the same. Even identical twins have distinguishable differences too.

 

However, genomes and reproductivity separates one species from another. That makes the difference between a human being and a killer whale. 

[richardmurray]

@ProfD I quote myself

Quote

biological race<human/cro magnon/bluejay/tigershark/fern> isn't based on the sea. it is based on the variance of the dna molecule between species.

when did I say that biological race didn't exist or that humans shared the same biological race with the killer whale? 

[ProfD]

52 minutes ago, richardmurray said:

@ProfD I quote myself

when did I say that biological race didn't exist or that humans shared the same biological race with the killer whale? 

The 2nd half of my post wasn't directed at your quote specifically. Just context within the discussion.

[Chevdove]

On 7/15/2023 at 1:18 PM, Pioneer1 said:

.I'll give you a hint.........

The person in the photo....in the words of Joe Biden:  AIN'T BLACK.


I told you this was where the "identity politics" of trans-genderism was heading.

If they can get you to call a man a woman simply because he "identifies" as one.....soon you'll have to call White folks "Black" simply because they "identify" as such.

 

 

WHOA!!! That is crazy! 

That person is NOT Black! 

 

Now, that is my first reaction, but in all truth, I do realize that, it depends on other factors why reports say that a person is considered Black or White or other.

Culture is a huge factor on why someone would be defined to be of a certain 'race'. 

And, what I mean is that, for example, if a person is White and of the European culture at birth but adopted by let's say someone from India and then raised in that culture, then that person may be defined as being 'Indian' in India or either 'a European Indian', but the issue of color may not be part of the category. However, the rules may change in another country. If a child born in India of Indian parents are adopted by a European family at birth and raised in Europe grows up. that person may choose to be defined as being WHITE in Europe. But if that same person would travel back to India, they may be rejected for that kind of identity. People in India may view that person as an Indian no matter their being cultured as a European. This world is crazy.

 

I believe that there should be a standard that we humans should stem from and that person in that photo, seems suspect to be defined as being Black, unless he/she/they was indeed raised in a Black Cuban culture before going to Greece. 

 

 

On 7/17/2023 at 3:30 PM, ProfD said:

 

 

While race may be considered an arbitrary construct, the system of racism white supremacy and its tethers are very real.

 

 

Yes, absolutely.

 

[Pioneer1]

19 hours ago, Troy said:

Of course!  What is holding you up? We’ve been at this for more than a decade. 

 

So Kamala Harris and Malcolm X are not Black, according to @Pioneer1  as they both pass the brown bag test. Malcolm even have red hair putting him firmly in the white  race, right Pioneer?

 

what you are saying is based upon what your eyes tell you, not what our genes say. Genetically we are essentially identical. There is no test for race. For this reason. 

Nobody said ANYTHING about Kamala Harris or Malcolm X in this thread until YOU brought them up, but I have you quoted as saying "of course".....which I take to mean you agree to CHANGE your position on race if I prove to you that science accepts that multiple races exist.

Well........we'll see.
 

 

Disparities in the Prevalence of Diabetes: Is it Race/Ethnicity or Socioeconomic Status? Results from the Boston Area Community Health (BACH) Survey

 

Major federal agencies (like the National Institutes of Health and the Centers for Disease Control) and professional organization (like the American Diabetes Association) continue to identify race/ethnicity as a major determinant of the prevalence of diabetes in the United States^1–3. This has spawned a well-intentioned search for underlying genetic and bio-physiologic explanations, eventually leading to identification of promising biomedical interventions to reduce race/ethnic disparities in diabetes. In contrast, social epidemiologists continue to find that socioeconomic status may be a more important determinant of diabetes prevalence, even accounting for much of the widely accepted race/ethnic effect^4–10. Such findings suggest markedly different explanations (in social circumstances, and environmental and neighborhood influences) and precipitate different types of primary, secondary, and upstream policy interventions. In the United States and many other countries, race/ethnic minorities are more likely to be poorer and less well educated than the majority white population. This has caused researchers to repeatedly ask the question which motivates this paper: is the widely accepted disparity in the prevalence of diabetes really attributable to race/ethnicity (which is considered non-modifiable), or is it due to socioeconomic status (which is potentially modifiable through upstream social policy interventions)? This question has important implications for clinicians, health services researchers, and policy makers. We attempt to answer it using data from a community-based epidemiologic survey of Boston, Massachusetts residents.

 

 

Disparities in the Prevalence of Diabetes: Is it Race/Ethnicity or Socioeconomic Status? Results from the Boston Area Community Health (BACH) Survey - PMC (nih.gov)

 

 

 

 

Study explores race differences of lung cancer risk

 

 

Vanderbilt research scientist Melinda Aldrich, Ph.D., MPH, has been awarded a National Institutes of Health Academic Career Award to investigate some of the genetic secrets behind a greater risk of lung cancer among African-Americans compared with other racial and ethnic groups.

 

 

Study explores race differences of lung cancer risk | VUMC Reporter | Vanderbilt University

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RACE, ETHNICITY, AND NIH RESEARCH AWARDS

 

 

 

We hypothesized that scientists of different races and ethnicities with similar research records and affiliations would have similar likelihoods of being awarded research grants. To test this, we used data from the NIH IMPAC II (Information for Management, Planning, Analysis, and Coordination) grants data system consisting of application and investigator data for Research Project Grants (RPGs) submitted between FY 2000 and FY 2006 (5, 6). During the application process, investigators self-identified their race and ethnicity. Our analysis sample contains (Type 1) R01 grant applications; the R01 is the oldest and most widely used investigator-initiated research project grant. Our sample is limited to Ph.D. investigators at U.S. institutions and includes 83,188 applications with data available for most of the explanatory variables. Because investigators can submit multiple grants for different projects, this represents 40,069 unique investigators.

 

 

RACE, ETHNICITY, AND NIH RESEARCH AWARDS - PMC

 

 

 

 

[Pioneer1]

Chev

 

I believe that there should be a standard that we humans should stem from and that person in that photo, seems suspect to be defined as being Black, unless he/she/they was indeed raised in a Black Cuban culture before going to Greece. 

EXACTLY
 

I've been saying this for years, infact.
That there should be a STANDARD by which most of us can agree on to determine who is Black, who is White, who is Female, who is Male.
That way we cut down on the deception and confusion.

If there is no standard, what's to stop some blonde haired blue eyed White boy who loves Whitney Houston to run around calling himself a BLACK WOMAN and talking about he got "Black girl magic" as he runs in and out of female restrooms?

There must be standards.
And White folks DO have standards.....they push that "anybody can be anybody" shit on Black folks silly enough to believe it.
At the end of the day they recognize that THEY are White and in charge.

For those who doubt this, consider this........

A white man can run around all day long claiming to be "Black" and the Black community will often embrace him and take him in as one of our own.....but how many BLACK men who are obviously BLACK phenotypically can run around claiming to be "White" and be accepted by White folks and embraced by them as such?
Why does it only seem to work in ONE DIRECTION??????

 

 

"I know I LOOK Black....but I'm really one of you guys!"

 

 

[ProfD]

@Pioneer1, considering that Black folks aren't always blessed and highly favored, white folks and no other race of people for that matter, stand to gain much pretending to be Black. In fact, if they run across the *wrong* white folks, they might get killed.

 

OTOH, a Black person *passing* for white could possibly take advantage of their privileges.

 

IMO, the number of people pretending and passing for a different race or gender is so small that coming up with a standard would be an exercise in futility especially for Black folks. We've got bigger issues to tackle.

[Troy]

22 hours ago, richardmurray said:

So why can't melanin production be used to dictate phenotypical race?

because race is not solely function of the capacity to produce melanin.  I’m sure sure even pioneer would are with that.

 

7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Nobody said ANYTHING about Kamala Harris or Malcolm X in this thread until YOU brought them up,

Yes because i went to know if they are Black in your book. Are they?

 

 You done this before @Pioneer1 the passages quoted are not providing a scientific basis for race. However you will notice that the word ethnicity is joined with the word race. Ethnicity is more accurate but people are so used to using race they put race in there. 

here is an article that might help. Try teasing reading it it helps explain the point i was trying to make in great detail:  https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/race-is-a-social-construct-scientists-argue/

 

i don’t expect you to change your  mind @Pioneer1 (you never do), but it may help clarify things for others with open minds.

[richardmurray]

@Troy

Why don't you ever say phenotypical race? I notice you never say that. You say race when I say phenotypical race. Melanin has nothing to do with assessing gender race or linguistical race or age race, or geographic race,  or cultural race or financial race , but in phenotypical race, melanin is a dictater to the color of skin and sequentially, appearance, which is another word for phenotype. 

I am not trying to be insulting, but to suggest melanin production can't be used to determine phenotypical race which is appearance is an illogic. 

You basically said the factor that dictates the color of skin, the epidermis that covers most of the body is not good enough to determine how people look. Can you explain more how people's skin can't be used to determine their difference of appearance? 

[Pioneer1]

ProfD

 

 

considering that Black folks aren't always blessed and highly favored, white folks and no other race of people for that matter, stand to gain much pretending to be Black. 

 

Lol....apparently Rachel Dolezal did.
An if the Reparations Act is passed, you'll see a lot more White folks popping up who all of a sudden see a major gain in being "Black".

 

 

 

IMO, the number of people pretending and passing for a different race or gender is so small that coming up with a standard would be an exercise in futility especially for Black folks. We've got bigger issues to tackle.

 

True.
However as others have said, we DO need to establish a set standard.
Not this wishy washy "anybody can identify as anybody" nonsense where people can simply claim any race or sex they feel like.

 

In the words of the late great Rev. K.C. Price:
That bird won't fly.
That fish won't swim.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Troy

 

because race is not solely function of the capacity to produce melanin.  I’m sure sure even pioneer would are with that.

 

Actually I believe the melanin content is A factor in determining race!
It's not the only factor, but it's a major one.

 

 

 

Yes because i went to know if they are Black in your book. Are they?

 

Both Kamala Harris and Malcolm X are AfroAmericans.

Troy, you PROMISED that you would change your position when I posted you the articles that clearly show science recognizes different races.

I presented them as clear as day.
 

[ProfD]

15 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Lol....apparently Rachel Dolezal did.
An if the Reparations Act is passed, you'll see a lot more White folks popping up who all of a sudden see a major gain in being "Black".

She's an example of the insignificant number of folks pretending to be Black. I don't think she gained much. She could have been a good spy for white folks though. 

 

AfroAmericans have to be on code before we get reparations. At that point, standards will be set and have to be met in order to qualify. A white boy with dreadlocks won't pass muster. 

[Pioneer1]

21 hours ago, ProfD said:

She's an example of the insignificant number of folks pretending to be Black. I don't think she gained much. She could have been a good spy for white folks though. 

 

AfroAmericans have to be on code before we get reparations. At that point, standards will be set and have to be met in order to qualify. A white boy with dreadlocks won't pass muster. 

As a community, we should be setting the standards NOW before the big money starts coming in.

I actually believe the Reparations WILL come, and I mean in OUR lifetime.
The question is will they give us enough?

Proper Reparations would consist of ATLEAST over $50,000  a year in annual payments as well as free healthcare and some land and tax breaks and other benefits.
Again, that's just a start.
However I believe that the U.S. government will try to give us something to SATISFY us because the demand is growing and will be too great for them to resist soon.

It may come like those stimulus payments came back in 2020 where we get thousands in a direct check.....maybe.
So we need to have our house somewhat in order first to determine who gets what.