Pioneer1

Tanny Should white society make some effort to repay some of the trillions of dollars of labor stolen from black people since the founding of the country? Yes again. Yes to both, that's my vote How would you go about ISOLATING a payment from White society only? Aside from the obvious resistance from many if not most of those who ARE White, one of the first steps would be IDENTIFYING who is "White" (and who is not) in this society.....lol.

Some people believe that only another Black person can really know and understand the problems Black people suffer from in the United States. I happen to believe that there is atleast one group of people who know and understand the problem MUCH more than Black people.........THE WHITE SUPREMACISTS WHO ARE ENGINEERED THE PROBLEM. Infact, they know more about the problems (and the solutions) that Black America face more so than Black people themselves who are often clueless as to what's going on in their own communities. Up in Flint, the White employees who worked in the state building knew the water was toxic for weeks before the residents did and kept it a secret among themselves. I don't think you're going to "reveal" much to White people that they don't already know. Many of these townhall meetings and heart-to-heart talks trying to get people to undertand your pain when 20% of the audience sitting there smiling at you and clapping for you are card carrying members of the KKK and are plotting your death is futile and a waste of time.

Eventually, AfroAmericans will need their OWN financial institutions....banks and credit unions. Because no matter how much money you make, if it's stored in a White owned bank....they can cut off your access to it anytime they get ready and force you to sue them to get it back. Or they can sell your personal information or use your money without your permission. There are enough Black people in the United States that we can have a Black credit union in every major urban area. Ofcourse as long as you're in America the federal government (FDIC) has final say so over your money and can seize it......BUT the fewwer hands you have in your pockets the better.

Ofcourse. He didn't get to be a billionaire being a fool.....lol. He knows people and what makes them tick and how to push their buttons.

Troy Like you I thought Tanny was much younger, like in her 20s. Which is why I asked her what her age was in another thread but she probably didn't see the question. You don't hear a lot of people over 40 speaking so confident and optimistically about a plan to right the wrongs of society. I consider myself a VISIONARY and know a lot of positive changes can be made because I've worked with others and have made them myself, but I also consider myself a pragmatist who considers the LIKELIHOOD of such changes and to what degree the change can occur. We have lost so much that younger people don't even realize it, because as far as they know the internet has always been controlled by a handful of large corporations and Black people have only made money due to the largess of these sites. Generation X (ages 35-60) and the Millenials (ages 15-35) through ignorance and indifference are threatening to lose all of the rights and reverse all of the progress that the Baby Boomers (ages 60-75) fought the establishment for and gave us in the 60s.

I think Beyonce is talented.......but I have a problem with her. She promotes "White beauty standards" with her long blonde hair look. The fact that she's light skinned isn't a problem because many of our people are. I'm not the darkest person myself. However the fact that she's light skinned AND chooses to wear so many long straight weaves tells me a lot about her psychological make-up along with her intentions of actually trying to look like a white woman while singing and acting Black. Mariah Carey is doing the same thing with all of the blonde highlights. I'm going to assume that Beyonce doesn't know the tremendous psychological damage she's causing for so many brown skinned and dark skinned Black girls who admire her and want to be like her by making herself looks as much UN-ALIKE these girls as she possibly can. And another problem I have with her and some of these other artists like and Nicki Minaj and Cardi B is all these funny "ugly" faces they're making in their videos. You don't see White or Asian girls doing this. When they make their videos they try to portray themselves as sweet, innocent, and or vulnerable with passive non-aggressive face. But a lot of Black female artists are scowling and scrounging up their faces and flashing a mad or crazy look through out their videos which looks down right freakish if not demonic.

Whether Trump is actually crazy or not, his behavior is clearly welcomed in many circles because it's a CATHARSIS for much of White America. Under the guise of "telling it like it is" or being "too crazy to know any better" he's doing things and saying things that a lot of White people want to do and say but fear the consequences.

K2 I'm still shocked by how much algebra and Arabic have in common in terms of everyday communications about anything, everything! One of the reasons is because both Algerbra and Arabic heavily influenced the forming of modern Western civilization. When the Moors and Arabs went into Europe under the banner of Islam they brought a lot of Arabic based knowledge with them that helped to educate and progress European civilization. Even today, the numbers we used are called ARABIC NUMERALS. And if you look at a style of writing called "short hand" it looks like ARABIC.

K2 I've considered the different options and have settled on the term AFRO-AMERICAN to describe most of our people here in the United States as opposed to "Black" or "African American". AFROAMERICAN isn't a race....it's an ethnic group. And that's just what we are, an ethnic group. Many of us...a larger percentage....aren't racially Black. We have been mixed with too many Whites and Native Americans to be considered actually Black or African but the vast majority of us share the same culture and sub-culture and history so that ties us together as an ethnic group. I feel the term AFRICAN AMERICAN should be reserved for the immigrants from the various African nations who come to America and become residents or citizens. There is power in words and I like to be PRECISE in my wording. Infact, one of the tricks of racism is to CAUSE CONFUSION among Black people over who and what they are by constantly having you call yourself something you aren't so that the doubt in your mind slows down your thinking and actions. That's why I believe our people (Americans of African descent) need to start taking their own identity into our own hands instead of letting other people classify us. See, a man will use his physical strength to survive, a woman will use her beauty and body to survive. Each will do whatever it takes to get what he/she wants. True dat. And today a lot of men are using THEIR beauty by becoming gigoloes and a lot of women are using THEIR physical strength by becoming butch type lesbians. Desparate people do desprate things, and so do people with no scruples.

Tanny 　 I framed my proposal in the context of education because that's something most whites can support. An education voucher tends to shift the focus of reparations from "pay for your crimes!" to "let's educate the nation". In the first case whites are painted as villains, in the later they can see themselves playing the role of hero. My argument here is tactical, not moral. I know exactly what you're saying. You're looking for something tangible that you think White America can hold it's nose and swallow to help Black people. However it's going to be hard to "out smart" racist right wing politicians who can smell any type of attempt toward social justice 5 miles away. As soon as you can come up with ideas to right the wrongs of society they'll come up with ideas to counter them. When Black people came up with the idea of leaving the South to come North and work in the factories to make good money, they shipped the factories overseas and destroyed the inner cities. You come up with a plan to give all Black people free eduation at all universities....in 20 years they'll SHIP THE UNIVERSITIES OVERSEAS to Europe...lol. Then you'll have to travel to Paris or London or Berlin to attend a university.....which means you'll have to get a pass port and be allowed in the country and then you'll need a sponsor and someone to take you in as a border....so the discrimination will start all over again, lol. I'm not saying all of this to discourage you, I'm saying it so that you will think ahead and be prepared.

Tanny This would be true if we were talking level playing field. But that's never existed in America. Blacks have been systemically denied the resources necessary to educate themselves with their own institutions, in the way you seem to be implying. You're right to a certain extent. But there have been so many examples of Blacks who have defied the odds and have built their own institutions to educate their children in a more productive way.....Marcus Garvey, Elijah Muhammad, and hundreds of other individuals......and were successful with it SHOULD HAVE inspired more Black people to work themselves out of this plight. But it hasn't...and that's a bit depressing. 　 My suggestion has been to go to white people and ask them to return at least some of the money that's been stolen from blacks. Again, 20% of Americans own 90% of America's wealth. We still live in a plantation system, it's just become far more sophisticated than the old days. If you're talking about your educational initiative, I think it would be more effective, more fair, and even more popular among the vast majority of people if you sought this money from the GOVERNMENT of the United States rather than wealthy White individuals (whether you're asking for it in grants or by some sort of progressive tax). The federal government has more than enough money to fund any type of educational program without running the risk of pissing off rich White people by burdening them with someone else's responsibility. Wealth is better of being GENERATED rather than RE-DISTRIBUTED. K2 Yes, and no, Pioneer1, independent living by a separate code does not mean "doing as the romans." In fact, I can mean just the opposite. We don't to adopt White ways of living. We did just fine before we were brought here; we can do it again. Only this time there's more competition for State power and less will power. If America lived up to the Constitution it established, we would be able to freely do this. But today there are so many laws and codes and restrictions telling people what they can and can't do that it's hard for a people to govern themselves with their own basic social and economic codes. For example..... We know that our children were much better behaved and respectful when parent and teachers were allowed to give them whoopings from time to time; but now that has been outlawed and many of these children have gone buck wild as a result. Another example is polygamy..... I believe the Black family would repair itself in one or two generations if responsible and qualified Black men were allowed to take on multiple wives to support them and the children they produced.....but it's illegal. Black men are forced into monogamy against their nature and are pretty much forced to sleep around and cheat and lie on their wives and girlfriends....make more chaos in the Black community. But these are examples of how the laws of this society prevent Black folks from organizing codes that would give us a very strong community.

K2 I have to be careful not to say ALL Black women or even Black women in general when I make certain statments and focus my subject on AFROAMERICAN women in specific. I've noticed that AFRICAN women from the continent of Africa tend to be totally different. I've dated a few African women (if you want to call it that....lol) and they seem to love it when a man makes the money and takes charge and even seem to expect it. What do I want to see changed? People, all of them; female, male, Black, White, young old, whatever gender get what they need for their survival. I want to see that too. However the question is WHO WILL THE GET IT FROM? In other words......... Everyone needs housing, but not everyone can build their own house! Everyone needs food, but not everyone can grow and prepare their own food! Everyone needs clothing, but not everyone knows how to make their own clothes! Everyone needs medical care from timt to time, but not everyone knows medicine! The people who have the knowledge to PROVIDE these things are the ones who will be in power whether we like this or not.

I would like it if all of the poor and working class in every race could work together to solve the problems of poverty and other economic injustices, but it's been my observation over the years that many POOR White people are content being poor as long as they are allowed to practice racism. In other words, it doesn't matter if they're living in a trailer park with no healthcare and no teeth in their mouth and can barely eat......... As long as there are no Black people or Mexicans around, they're happy as hell and see no need to complain. Many poor White people and especially poor White men feel this way. This may sound ridiculous to you but it's very true in a lot of cases. Their biggest fear isn't poverty or not being able to pay for an operation they need to save their life.....it's a Black man sleeping with their wife or daughter, lol. Another thing I've noticed is that a lot of poor and working class Whites have a "it's my duty to be poor and not complain about it" mentality. I've worked around poor White men who wore raggedy tennis shoes and only had one pair of pants and t-shirt and the only thing they lived for was to smoke cigarettes, drink beer, and work. If you talked to them about demanding higher wages or better healthcare they'd get angry with you and accuse you of being a Communist or Socialist....lol. They felt it was just the "right thing to do" to be poor, work their ass off, and not complain. Many took pride in it and would berate eachother for complaining about anything. "Oh stop yer bitchin' and yer moanin' and be a man!!!" It's hard trying to reason with people with that type of mentality and it took me years to discover how many actually exist who think like this. This is one of the reasons Trump got elected. They didn't vote for him for what he would DO FOR THEM. They knew he wouldn't do anything for them. They voted for him for what he promised to DO TO OTHERS (lock them up, deport them, ect....)!!

K2 Somebody's been doing their homework!! True, Pioneer1, but the "blushing man" ...or "White man" are just part of a larger meaning. "Pure man," is generally accepted as the actual meaning, not an interpretation or translation. But one must understand the language and usage. True, I'm still learning, but learning nonetheless. I haven't heard the "pure man" interpretation but I both the Hebrew and Arabic word for blood is "dam". The word "A-dam" means "show-blood" another term for BLUSHING. Perhaps "pure" is translated from a word similar to "transparent". When your skin is devoid of melanin it becomes transparent and you can see through it and see the blood. The Hebrew, Arabic meaning for White is an illness, deceased. Although, the modern day interpretation of white is also purity, white wedding dress, etc. e.g., Moses frighten Pharoh when he placed his hand in his garment and took it out white, etc. I've heard that the disease translated as "leprosy" in the Bible is actually VITILIGO...the skin disease that turns your skin and hair white. That could be the case. Ofcourse this society will consider Whiteness a sign of purity because of who dominates it. Malcolm X was introduced to this concept when he was in prison and started reading the dictionary and noticed that all of the good wonderful qualities were associated with Whiteness but when it came to bad qualities they were described as Black, dark, gloomy, ect...lol. I remember reading about a tribe in Africa where when someone died and the village mourned.....they didn't wear Black like people do in the West....they were White and paint their faces White as a sign of mourning because they believe White is the color of death.

Tanny I don't see how smart has anything to do with it. In America there have always been more whites than blacks. And that numerical advantage was used to create an economic system designed to steal black labor and Indian land. In both cases it wasn't because whites were smarter, it was because they had more people and more guns. Whites didn't always have the numbers. The Indians had the land AND the numbers but the White men still came in and literally TOOK both. And it's not like the Indians (Native Americans) were too peaceful to wage war or fight back.....many did....but still lost. So some would argue that it's an example of Whites being smarter. White folks HAD guns because they INVENTED the guns, lol. ...and the cannons and tanks and other things they were able to use to defeat their opposition in America and parts of Africa. Their technological advances.....in my opinion...was in part a result of intelligence. 　 If you took ANY population and denied them education and opportunity for centuries, then sure, there will be some in that population who essentially give up. That's not a black thing, that's a human thing. As example, there are plenty of poor whites who have given up and made peace with living on welfare in the trailer park. I hear exactly what you're saying and I'm inclinded to agree with you except......... If Black people were as smart as they should be they wouldn't have to RELY on White people to provide education to them, we'd simply educate OURSELVES with OUR OWN institutions. Russians can produce their own food, make their own clothes, and build houses for themselves.....they don't have to rely on America or England to GIVE them money or provide them with an education to help them.......so why do so many Black people around the world do? The fact that you have to GO TO White people and ask them to educate you means they have knowledge that you don't have. Now how did they GET that knowledge? Keep in mind..... I'm not trying to justify INJUSTICE, nor am I trying to play devil's advocate. But at this stage in my life and looking at what I'm seeing with Black people all over the world, I must atleast try to see things AS THEY ACTUALLY ARE rather than just how I would like them to be. Ofcourse Divine assistance is priority, but Black people need to figure out how to make themselves smarter

K2 Every society of every age have practiced male dominance over females. The question is, can that ever be changed? To ANSWER your question..... I don't think so because by our very natures men have more testosterone and this makes us more aggressive and more dominant. Estrogen makes women more nurturing and submissive. This is just basic biology so unless the chemistry of human beings change, I doubt the roles will. However I believe that women can and should BE TREATED MUCH BETTER in this world than they have been and currrently are. However to pose ANOTHER question...... I would ask you, do we really want it to change? Based on my interactions with MOST women....I don't think most of them really WANT to be in a leadership or ruling position. They just don't want to be abused. Most of them seem to have an innate nature of wanted to be "taken care of" and protected by a man. Not all....but most.

K2 Not because they are White, wealthy, nor even more intelligent; they will rule because there's no concern for consequences; they will do whatever it takes to survive. While we Black folk are limited only by our own failure to be independent and develop our own code of conduct. Unfortunately some may say...... The reason why Black folks are limited by their own failures to be independent and develop their own codes is just another example of WHAT MAKES White people more intelligent. Some may say that if we were as SMART as they were then we'd be DOING it ike they were.

You can start with the Book of Genesis and the deceptive way it was translated. The Hebrew word "Adam" actually means "blushing man"....or White man.

K2 Maybe, Pioneer1, I don't believe Obama would have enacted or pushed for such legislation even with diligent lobbying. He's politician and even his party would have treated him like shit had he considered it. Believe or not, most Black professionals are against reparations too. Obama had the intelligence and charisma to push anything he wanted to. He CHOSE not to push for anything of substance that would benefit the Black community and Black people CHOSE not to push him into doing so...so both are at fault. Most Black professionals are against reparations because: 1. They don't really need it so they don't care about those who do. 2. Many got to where they are because they feel they are exceptionally smart or talented and they feel reparations may put too many "undeserving" people on their level. I think I mentioned on this site before "The Hidden Curriculum" program that teaches Black children to be servants while prepping White children to be managers and leaders. Yeah. They are called "Montessori schools". These schools teach mostly White children how to be independant thinkers while the public schools teach you how to fall in line and obey orders. Tanny 1) What's the price tag on that? A serious study would have to be done to figure this out. 　 2) Who pays? Every government and institution that ever participated or benefited from it. 3) How about American Indians? AfroAmerican reparations would have to be done SEPERATELY from them, but they definately need to get a PROPER form of reparations for what they went through. Some would argue that what the Native Americans went through was actually worse than what the African went through. But again, their issue would have to be done seperately. 　 4) If reparations were paid to your satisfaction, are blacks willing to then drop complaints against whites? Lol, ofcourse not..... That's like saying once a murder is solved, we should close down the police department and not complain or call them for any other problems......everything is solved, lol. Racism is an ON-GOING human behavior of which slavery was just an extreme form of. But racism didn't end when slavery or Jim Crow ended. And nor should it's confrontation. Troy The liberal arts including history are treat like a waste of time I agree. I actually think it's just an excuse for universities to make more money by keeping students at their institution a couple years longer.

　 Tanny This may not be a peaceful process. There are a minority of whites who will resist with enthusiasm, including violence. They will be afraid that blacks and browns will do to them what whites have long done to blacks and browns. The idea that America is a white country is deeply rooted in white culture. Whatever happens the future is not going to be like the past. Whites will not continue to dominate while gradually extending rights and benefits to minorities, that model is coming to an end. 　 Because America is going to be majority people of color, I think what many Whites are preparing to to is RULE AS A MINORITY. When you rule as a majority you can be a little lax and easy going because you have such overwhelming numers, but when you're a minority you have to be more aggressive with the people you plan on ruling over because you don't have enough numbers to be "nice". So if you look at Whites in South Africa or the White minority that rules many countries in Latin America.....yes they rule by keeping the people under them divided. In South Africa the White minority ruled by keeping the "coloureds" divided from the Zulu. In Latin America the small Spanish Whites rule by keeping the Indians separate from the Meztizo and Mulatto. Keep them all fighting eachother over limited resources and compete with eachother over who can get closest to the White ruler to enjoy some wealth and power.

I'm not saying that the women are innocent and clean. And ofcourse White men do what Bill has done and MUCH WORSE on a regular basis. Harvey Weinstein and the rest of those Hollywood men being accused have YET to stand trial for their alleged crimes. But Bill Cosby is NOT White. And if he KNOWS he's not White and knows he will not be able to get away with what they do....then why even try it? It's like a Black kid selling dope and when he get's caught and arrested he's yellling and shouting, "See....see....dat ain't right cuz' dem White boys sell all types of acid and meth and shit but yall ain't arrestin' dem!!!" .....and he's saying it as he's being handcuffed and they're pushing his nappy head down into the back of the police cruiser. Wrong is wrong. You can't justify the wrong you're doing by pointing the finger at White folks and what they're allowed to get away with. Bill Cosby was a multi-millionaire through out most of his life. He had more than enough money to fly around this planet and BRING BACK all the women he wanted to have sex with without breaking any type of law and he would have been well within his rights to do so. Instead he chose to get tricky with these White women and now has to give them half his money. It's the same with Tiger Woods and all the foolishness he's been through. If the man was a sex addict, why in the hell would he get married in the first place? He had millions of dollars to fly around the world and have sex with as many women as he chose without the liablitity of marriage and divorce; yet for some dumb reason he felt compelled to marry a White woman who was cleaning his house and let her make a fool out of him by divorcing him and now SHE'S got half his money. It's that WHITE WOMAN MAGIC that drives some of these negroes stone damn crazy to the point the lose all common sense!! And Serena Williams is gonna end up making the same mistake.

If what I read was the review, I'm not sure why any Black person would be "offended" by it. It basically gives a brief on the troubled background of one of BLM's co-founders. Now me personally, I am a bit EMBARASSED by the book itself because it appears to be just another portrayal of a severely dysfunctional and immoral Black family and Black neighborhood in America. Something we really don't need right now. I would think that if she put this book out about how dysfunctional her childhood was and how anti-social and immoral many of the people in her family and community are with all of their dysfunctions and vices......she should realize how it probably could be used by the police to JUSTIFY the treatment of so many Black people. In other words...... If Ms Cullors puts out a book telling the world how stupid and crazy and criminal the Black people in her family and drug-infested neighborhood was growing up......then don't get too angry at the police for gunning down and locking up so many of the people IN that community.

Excellent question...... Which is why I'm not too crazy about running to Cosby's defense. This may indeed be a set up and conspiracy to take advantage of him and break him financially and otherwise; however IF (and I say "if" because I wasn't there) it's true that he drugged women to sexually abuse or assault them, then that would make him a rapist and adulterer and I can't really get behind somebody like that. All I can say about the issue is I hope the entire truth comes out and then I can form a more educated opinion on the matter.

K2 Yeah, say what you like, but a human being will survive, by any means necessary. Even if it takes destroying his own. I am not optimist about the future of America or of Black folk. Though I do wish we would come to our senses and live the opposite of White folks. The first step in realizing this dream is to have the DESIRE. Most Black people in America don't have the DESIRE to live independently. Most rely on White people for their food, clothing, shelter, and medical care......and they like it that way. As much as Chinese and other East Asians skin and grin at White people, they spend their time LEARNING from them so that they can live independently FROM them. Most Black folks do the opposite: Cry and complain about how White people are treating them but take no steps to separate and build something of their own. Because many have been made MENTALLY LAZY. Tanny Republicans will soon start trying to divide blacks from Hispanics because that will be the only way they can continue to rule. If you don't already know, I have a little news for you.....lol. Republicans don't have to TRY to separate Blacks from Hispanics, because most non-Black Hispanics have done a pretty good job of doing that ALREADY. If you look around this nation, except for a few enclaves on the East Coast that have a large Afro-Latino population......for the most part Hispanics live in seperate communities from AfroAmericans and have little to do with us socially, politically, and economically. The sad fact is, most non-Black groups in this nation are focused on THEMSELVES and not really interested in true unity and friendship with other people of color.

The Nation of Islam has it's issues but I see more positive effects from them than I see from BLM. If you want to look at it from a conservative point of view. While BLM protests the treatment of Black people by the police, the Nation of Islam tries to condition them morally and socially so that they will not have to encounter the police to begin with. In other words....... If Devonte is out at 2 am in the morning drinking and acting a fool with his friends and ends up getting shot 40 times by racist cops who thought his cell phone was a gun.....THEN Black Lives Matter comes out to protest his unjust killing. But the Nation of Islam will try to get Devonte to stop drinking and hanging out late at night so that the racist cops won't have an excuse to kill him in the first place.