Pioneer1

What makes Frazier's move so much more impressive and effective in MY opinion are the two different industries they're taking their stands in. The sports industry and the business world. Being rebellious and bucking authority is often seen as a badge of honor among most young people and especially when it's being done by athletes in the sports industry. It thrives off of controversy and shake-ups. The sports worlds is FULL of young men who strut around showing the world how strong and brave they are...bravado and cockiness is just part of sports. But in the more conservative business world, what Mr Frazier did was considered VERY bold and unusual. Especially to a fellow businessman like Trump who cares so much more weight in the business world than he does in the general public. Love or hate his policies, Trump is still praised for his business savviness. So for a fellow businessman and CEO to take this stand and take it in public in such a conservative and reserved industry......that talks balls the size of basketballs.

Don't run around believing all of this talk about White people "going extinct". They've been saying this for decades and White people are still here. Just like they've been saying that blonde people or blue eyed people will be extinct by the year 2020 or some other year. Look at all the pregnant White women you see walking around. Look at all the White women you see walking around pushing baby carriages with 4 and 5 kids in them. White women are having children by the LITTERS! You keep hearing about White women having triplets and quadruplets....when was the last time you saw a Black woman with 3 or 4 babies that she had at one time? You can't go into a restaurant and eat in peace without seeing a White woman with her titty out feeding one of her babies daring you to say something about it, with 2 or 3 other kids bouncing around and squealing.....lol. This is nothing more than "dog whistles" used to alarm White people and especially White racists and whip them up into a frenzy to try and harm more people of color. If they believe they're going to go extinct then they start taking steps to INCREASE their population while DECIMATING the population of people of color through AIDS, warfare, crime, poverty, ect...... It's the BLACK POPULATION you better worry about.

Yep, both Dick Gregory and Jerry Lewis left about the same time. May our elder Dick Gregory have a lasting peace and tranquility.

Troy Your time is valuable and you two can be doing anything else, but you have decided to provide this forum with the benefit of your insight and perspectives. Why? I'm here to keep an eye on Cynique. If she goes to far, someone has to be here to rein her in. Mel 　 The majority (73%) of black people in the inner cities of America and the majority (80%) of black people in the suburbs are living above the poverty line. Lol @ "above the poverty line". So THAT'S your definition of "success"???? Lol....above some arbitrary "poverty line" that usually crunches a family of 4 people into about $20,000 a year or some other ridiculous figure that no human being could possibly suppot themselves on in this nation. You mentioned nothing about quality of life, health care, family relations, legal issue, and other factors of real success in society. But as long as nearly 3 quarters of negroes aren't living in squalor (according to The Atlantic)....most Black folks are doing great?? ((shakes head)) Thank you nicely kindly for atleast answering my question, but I might as well end this conversation right here. Del Troy what in your experience helps you understand. That Black Women should be cheerleaders to Black Men and have sex with them to encourage them in the struggle. Man, how could you grow up in New York or any urban community and NOT understand this? You can understand Wall Street, the stock market, and what influences IT......... But do you mean to sit up and tell me that you can't understand how Black women and sex can be used to influence Black men????

Troy Most people, even racists, view and treat celebrities as if they are superior to other humans. But this of course has nothing to do with the person. If I'm a white racist and I don't happen to know you are a celebrity you are just another nigger to me... With some White people, infact a LOT of White people.....being a celebrity or just being very successful in general makes White people hate you even WORSE. If you notice, a lot of White people seem to LOVE Black people they CLEARLY feel they're superior to. They love to see homeless Black folks out begging, they'll even give them money and a hug or take a picture of them and put it in a publication for a story. Why? Because it re-enforces the belief that Black people are poor and need their help. Meanwhile they'll hate on the wealthy Black entertainer or athlete and talk about all the money they have or spread rumors about some sex scandal or vice they're involved with. Truth be told...... I believe this is one of the reasons so many athletes find themselves in trouble with the law and in court. You have poorer White police officers and other public officials with less money and fame who are angry and jealous and they make it a point to "go after" wealthy Black entertainers to teach them not to get too "uppity" and forget their status. I used to work with a White dude who would grab the paper every morning and read it aloud just to antagonize his co-workers and one of the things he liked doing is talking about all the money these football players or basketball players were getting. Xeon I could not bring myself to argue with the idea that an artist who is extremely popular should be criticized because their attractiveness makes girls who are less attractive feel bad about themselves It's not the physical attraction of these artists that is the problem, it's the fact that they only seem to find attractive artists who LOOK ALMOST WHITE. You have attractive and unattractive people in every race, but they'll disregard the dark skinned attractive man or woman to promote the one who looks nearly White in order to promote "white beauty" among Black people. That’s like me saying the guys in the NBA or NFL make me feel bad about myself because I do not possess the level of athleticism they do. If your self esteem and feelings of self worth are so low that an entertainer makes you question your own self worth and self-perception of attractiveness –I think that says it all. The sheer absurdity of such thinking is ridiculous. You clearly don't understand SOCIAL ENGINEERING and how it operates. Everything you believe about beauty has been TAUGHT to you.

A lot of rumors are being intentionally spread also. One young White dude I talk with from time to time but suspect of being a white racist at a local restaurant told me of a local KKK rally they were having a few miles away. But when I checked up on it.....nothing. Now I'm thinking why would he tell me that? Was he just trying to scare me or see my reaction? Yesterday I was going to a Walgreens drug store and I see a truck parked in the lot with a big confederate flag license plate and 2 people inside eating. I look around to see if any other Black people are seeing what I'm seeing and I see a couple of young Black couple on their cell phones just jabbering and texting away. I look at the truck, and I look at the Black man and woman. So I go up to them and try to get their attention in a way that doesn't alert the occupants of the nearby truck. The girl doesn't eve get off the phone, but atleast the young man stops texting and looks at me. I point out the truck and confederate flag to them. The boy covers his mouth like a girl and says "Oh shnapp...." Not exactly the response I was expecting from a young man, but atleast it was a response. The girl glances over and say something along the lines of, "I don't know girl, some racist ass truck in the parking lot of something....anyway....". ......and kept talking and laughing over something silly. Me and the young man had a brief conversation about Charlottseville and I told him to be careful and went on inside. But I felt sorry for him and his being put in a position of having to defend a woman like that who doesn't seem to understand or care about the potential danger she may be in. It goes back to what I was saying about Black men needing support from the women in the community. It's hard to fight for someone who doesn't care. It makes you feel like giving up and letting "whatever" happen to them in order to teach them some sort of lesson of how to show respect and support.

Happy Birthday! I always knew you were in your own little bubble.....lol.

Troy Religions are all man made, but most I imagine started out attempting to enlighten people I used to think this. Now I'm beginning to believe that most religions in the past started off the same way most businesses are started today.....and for the same reasons. One man either gets an idea of how to make some money, or he gets jealous of another man he's working with/for.....and he decides to branch off and do his own thing. It's the same with most religions. One man (usually a man for some reason....lol) gets an idea in his head and goes off to convincing others that it was divinely inspirted. Or he's already a part of a religion and recognizes the racket going on and decides to branch off and do his OWN thing. Either way, the man who starts the religion usually ends up with a lot of wealth, fame, and his share of women. If you study many ancient societies........ Look at the priests in these societies and how they didn't have to do hard labor or risk death fighting like other men did. All they had to do is sit up in cool temples studying and eating foods that people gave them. The God we seek is within each of us, all matter, and all time. I think we have to be careful with this line of thinking. It's similar to what Del and Mel were saying in the other thread about everyone having a talent or everyone can be great and exceptional if they work hard enough or put their minds to it. After years of observing people, I just can't say that this is the case with EVERYONE. Some people are just mediocre and others are simply below average and we have to accept them as that and most importantly they have to ACCEPT THEMSELVES as that. There is a young man in my neighborhood right now who is below average in intelligence and has had all types of special education help in school and medication for his ADD and now he somehow made it in a community college and his family keeps urging him to get a degree and do this and that.....but he is clearly unhappy and having a hard time keeping up. He's constantly coming to me for advice and I give him the best advice I can without hurting his feelings, but I'm on the verge of telling him to drop out and just get a simple job he can handle and don't have children because he won't be able to take care of them anyway. But if I was to tell the boy something like that his mother and family probably never would forgive me and it may even hurt him more than he's being hurt now as he struggles to do something clearly beyond his capacity to do. People should be taught how to be happy and satisfied with their own abilities no matter how limited. Del Most people that are religious or spiritual suspend logic. I don't know about spiritual people, but I believe this is true with many if not most religious people to a certain extent. If your religion teaches you that all you have to do to be successful in life is do "a b and c" and you do it and are NOT successful.....then you have to play mind games and explain why the method your religion prescribed isn't working. You force yourself to believe in things you know in your heart aren't true. You go into a state of what's called "cognative dissonance" believing contradicting ideas.

Mel 　 ... I don't run away from jury duty. I get called regularly because I VOTE in every election. Well, I vote regularly too...for candidates I actually like...and so far I have YET to be called to jury duty. One of the things that has bothered me about the legal system is how they claim you're supposed to be judge by a jury of your PEERS. Yet they pick jury members from a list of local registered voters. Most of these are educated middle class people with good jobs and clean criminal records. How are they "peers" to most people in the ghetto or living in poverty? If a man convicted of a crime happens to be unemployed, poor, and Black.....then his PEERS are also unemployed, poor, Black...and male....so THAT'S who should make up the jury pool! Oh, and I'm never nice. I don't waste my time on it. Well if you have children you MUST have been nice to some man or men....lol. Now are you going to answer my question: Do you believe that the majority of Black people in the United States are NOT successful? Troy Black or white, male or female, we all should be doing a better job of supporting each other. I believe the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT is the ultimate human entity that bears the responsibility in making sure all members of this society have their material needs supported. They should be the one who makes sure no one goes without food, clothing, shelter, or healthcare. I don't have enough trust in individual human beings being nice or charitable enough to provide support for those who really need it. Mel's statments about people being lazy or only the strong surviving is a great example of the thinking of a lot of people and why we shouldn't rely on "good will" or expect a sympathetic population to step in and help those who are the most vulnerable. You have people with all type of philosophies and moral points of view. Some believe that poor people are poor because of moral issues and they deserve it. Other's feel that poor people were born with "bad karma". Others believe poor and sick people are "defective" and that they should be allowed to die so as not to spread their "defective genes".....like the Nazis used to believe. You have ALL TYPES of views and judgements about poverty, some are rational and others irrational. So you must have a government welfare system that by-passes all the opinions and moral judgements and just support the BASIC NEEDS of people who are not able to do it for themselves for whatever reason. Just the basics....and if they have the talents or the smarts to do MORE then by all means do it. It's the same with the sick..... Some people believe those who are sick are sick because of poor decisions like drinking too much or smoking cigarettes.....and THEY believe those people should suffer from the consequences of those decisions while not realizing how cruel and torturing it is to make someone suffer and die from lung cancer simply because of a stupid decision they made as kids. Again, others believe people get sick because of a genetic defect and that they should be allowed to die off. We can't rely on support from individuals like this or even expect sympathy from them. You have UNIVERSAL health care provided by the government to by-pass all of that foolish thinking and just help people who need help when they need it without judging them. Xeon Oh really? Can you tell me exactly how STRONG Black men are locked up for displaying strength and bravery? Please give details. And please also tell me what "culture or society praises and encourages men to be weak and passive". I know of no culture like that. More details please…… Look at all the gang members inside prison. Most of these men are young, physically strong, and brave with a propensity toward violence. 1000 years ago in more traditional socities where violence and bravery were characteristics highly prized in men by other men as well as the women of that society.....these same men would have been HIGHLY respected and would receive honorary social status in those societies. Most of these young men in prison are probably highly sexed and brag about all the women they were having sex with on the outside....another highly prized trait in the ANCIENT WORLD. So the typical "ganster" in prison may be strong, brave, and violent....meaning he's willing to take action...and a sex machine which means he virile and potent. NATURE MADE HIM STRONG.....but this society demonizes him. In this society he is imprisoned for his behavior which is frowned upon and seen as barbaric and immature. Now goofy nerdy men like Bill Gates and other techies are considered high in social status. They may be weak and cowardly but in this artificial world THEY now have the wealth and the women are taught to go for them instead of the strong, violent, "thug" on the street who could give her many babies and actually protect her from harm. Much of what is natural for humanity has been turned upside down in this artificial society. But I suppose you believe that type of thinking is "twisted".....lol.

I first came into contact with NOI teachings through PUBLIC ENEMY. I was always conscious and racial....even as a little child. So they did samples of Malcolm and Farrakhan and then I started studying both and I would go to Black book stores and read books by Chancellor Williams, Ivan Van Sertima, and ofcourse Elijah Muhammad. But the books by Elijah and the NOI were more "readable" to me because they didn't have that scholarly feel like other more educated Black writers had. But more important than the literature and doctrine alone, it was the RESULTS I saw in the men in the community that made me take more notice in the Nation of Islam. Unlike many churches and neighborhood programs, I would see GENUINE CHANGE in most Black men who went to the Nation of Islam mosques. They'd go in and out of jail gangster as hell but in a few months their skin would be shining, they'd be dressed up, and they'd be holding doors open for women and smiling at other Black men calling them brother.....lol. Not all scientists are white. Indeed many will argue the first scientist were Black. In any case, white people do not own science. In my mind saying "You can put your faith in White science if you want to." is the same thing as saying "talking white" or "school is for white people." Not all scientists are White, but MOST of them are eiter White or Asian. Only a small percentage of them are Black or Native American and that only has me suspicious of the "scientific community". My suspicion of what I call "White science" isn't based on incompitence or believing that they are in error. My suspicion is based on my belief that they are decieving the public. I suspect there are very smart White scientists who are covering up a lot of truth and only letting SOME of it come out whether it has to do with health, history, ect.... For example, I believe the cure for cancer and AIDS not only exist but is known among SOME scientists but that knowledge is being held from the most of the public. In my mind saying "You can put your faith in White science if you want to." is the same thing as saying "talking white" or "school is for white people." Well, BOTH statements would be correct. The "science" of this society IS White because it was founded by and for White people to advance themselves with. And the school system was also founded by and for White people to advance themselves with. Most of the discoveries were by White people or by Black people living INSIDE White societies using White tools and methods. So whateve benefit those discoveries have.....White society still gets the credit. We had our own methods of what would be called science today.....voodoo and other traditional religions are an example of this ancient science and medical system we practices since before recorded history. We also have schools in which we passed along those traditions....and still do in some cases. But it doesn't seem to be as sophisticated and developed as Western/White science.

Got a chance to see the movie the other day...... I have to say that it was an EXCELLENT movie. Much of it took me back to my childhood growing up in Detroit in the 70s and how Black people looked and carried themselves at that time. Kathryn did a good job. It could have been considered a "Black movie" easily because the main characters were Black and the movie is basically told from a Black experience so I'm not sure what the critics are talking about. The movie touches on: Police brutality Black criminality Racism on the police department The history of Black people leaving the South to work in the industrialized North Damn..... It even showed a history of The Dramatics singing group!!! It reminded me a little of American Gangster the way it took you back to Black life during that time period in detail. I kept thinking about my Father, Uncles, and friends of the family and other Black men who I grew up with at that time who are no longer around who would have LOVED this movie. I don't know about the national audience but there were scenes in that movie that that really hit home to me and other Black people around my age who grew up hearing older adults tell us how it was back in that time period.....and now we see it on screen. Especially how the police behaved and how White prostitutes would come in Black neighborhoods and get Black men in trouble. In my opinion it took too long to make this movie, it should have been made 20 or 30 years ago. I still believe a BLACK director should have made it...but hey....it was so good it really didn't matter. Well....yes it did because I saw a few racial subliminal messages in the film...lol. But overall to me it was a good LONG film. I personally think it was better than Get Out....about as good as Django Unchained.

They should have used a HOT AIR balloon instead of a sail...lol.

Cynique unlike Kenneth Frazier, Colin didn't wait for a specific event to prod him into taking a public stand Or....... One could look at it as Kenneth Frazier being an older mature and intelligent man DIDN'T NEED several incidents to motivate him to take a stand like Colin who decided to act only after YEARS of seeing injustice. With Mr. Frazier, after ONE negative incident that tested his metal....he rose to the occasion and publically rebuked the President of the United States in the name of honor and principle. What's-his-name is just a member of the bandwagon everybody is jumping on Yeah but Mr Frazier was the FIRST to jump on the wagon. BEFORE it started moving.....LOL. Troy As Cynique implied it was not exactly a tough decision or big sacrifice for Frazier to step down. I don't think it was a tough decision either, he's a chief EXECUTIVE officer and the brother knows how to come to the right decision and quickly. It was a BRAVE decision though because to dismiss and break ties with a narcissist and egoist like Trump in a public manner takes a lot of courage as everyone knows how he likes to get down with his enemies. Sacrifice? Not likely.....but who says you have to sacrifice yourself to be successful or even take a stand? I'm not a religious man so I don't necessarily see value in the act of self-sacrifice. I see value in AFFIRMATIVE ACTIONS that directly influence the accomplishment of a particular goal. If you can get the same things accomplished without suffering.....I say go for it.

One of America's most prominent black CEOs quit President Trump's manufacturing council on Monday over Trump's initial failure to condemn white supremacists. Kenneth Frazier of Merck (MRK) said in a statement: "America's leaders must honor our fundamental values by clearly rejecting expressions of hatred, bigotry and group supremacy." http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/14/investing/merck-ceo-trump-charlottesville/ _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Now THIS is a great example of a Black man who stands up for what he believes in and shows an act of courage and bravery. What he said and did had CLEAR MEANING. People want to get behind Colin Kaepernick and praise him for bowing down on one knee during the national anthem which is a vague statement with no clear goals to be accomplish. But here's a Black man who made a direct impact with the bold statment he made against racism. I think the Black community should not only rally behind this brother and other brothers and sisters who perform similar acts of courage, but we should also MONITOR the outcome and consequences of their actions to make sure they aren't retaliated against for this. Sometimes when Black folks take actions like this in public, racists don't retaliate against him immediately. They'll wait a few weeks or even a few months when they think things have cooled down and then hit him with some sort of sexual harassment charge to get rid of him. So we have to stay on cases like this. This is what I mean by supporting POSITIVE Black men (and women) and supporting and encouraging positive behavior. Invite him on Black shows. Give him rewards. Even raise money to give him.....yes.....I said GIVE HIM MONEY. If other Black people in positions of power see him take this stand and see that he's protected and rewarded for standing up for his principles, then others will follow suit and feel more free and embolden to stand up too.

I don't think we come from different world. I think we just have different PERSPECTIVES of the same world. Del Should men shoot some cash to single mothers and service them. Since they seem to be raising more kids on their own than single Black men If the mother is doing a good job and being a good mother....ofcourse. Hell, how did you think WELFARE got started? Instead of individuals giving money to women with children, the government just started doing it to maintain them. I have no comment after the post Mel sent me from Pioneer. I'm not sure what comment she sent YOU, but I've sent NO comments to her. Mel So, when Democratic Presidential candidate Obama, another one in the minority of those above-the-average folks, who came after the dotcom bust and its resurgence, gently told those in attendance, those jobs are not coming back, did they not believe him? I believed him. Because I knew that he.....like most of the presidents who came before him...wasn't gonna do a damn thing to BRING them back. I'm beginning to wonder if Troy wasn't right after all about you not understanding or comprehending everything I'm saying. When you repeatedly make statements like: -"those who chose to pull themselves out of the "average" pool" -"or you can look to the people living in the same society under the same conditions and follow their lead to success" -"those too lazy to educate themselves about their own talents and innate power" -"Ain't nobody got to time to for those whom won't help himself" .....tells me that you still believe high achievement and being exceptional is a CHOICE for most people. You can't conceive of the fact that some people don't have the intelligence or energy to accomplish what you or some of those in your circle have....and you seek to punish them for it. Calling poor or even average peope who fall on hard times "lazy" or incinuating that they are in their condition because of personal choices or moral shortcoming is one of the oldest tricks that corporatists and conservatives use to DEFLECT from the socio-economic injustices they have created in society that have caused these problems. Ofcourse everyone makes bad decisions from time to time, but again....is EVERYONE wrong? Look, could you do me this favor? Could you just answer this question to see if we're on the same page or even in the same "world": Do you believe the MAJORITY of Black people in the United States are NOT successful? When I say successful I mean it in the generally understood sense of being healthy, financially independent, with stable families and homes. I'm not asking you for reasons for their condition, I'm just simply asking do you believe that MOST Black people in the United States today have or have NOT achieved atleast that basic level of success? BTW..... Don't think those little slick remarks about me exploiting people in my community are getting by me....lol. I see you. I might be nice and let it go once or twice, but keep on........

You saw the militia walking down the street, you would have thought they were an army … (They) had better equipment than our state police had," McAuliffe was quoted as saying. And that statement SHOWS you how ignorant and unprepared those in law enforcement were....or pretended to be. A "militia" IS AN ARMY. It's a paramilitary force that operates outside of direct government control. And that's what the police around this nation have been letting these racist get away with for decades. Stocking up weapons and gear and forming their own little armies. Troy I'm a "cliquish" type of brother...... I've found out that as long as I have other like-minded people I can work with and are willing to work with me, I can not only survive but thrive and prosper. Maybe that's why I'm accused of being in my "own world" so much....lol. I love to surround myself with people who share my interests or atleast my love of knowledge and politics. It's for that reason and the fact that even if less than 10% of Black people have enough sense to appreciate an intelligent highly informative Black owned television news network, that would still mean 3-5 million strong supporting it! Infact, I feel the 3-5 million intelligent Black people would be far more successful buying and maintaining their television programming than 50 million fools would be trying to maintain the garbage and filth they like to feed off of. are more likely to buy and maintain the informative programming they like than would 50 million Black fools would be able to keep that garbage and filthy they like on the air 3-5 million intelligent Black folks are far more effective than 50 million Black fools who feed their minds on garbage and filth. Which is why I don't see World Start Hiphop lasting too much longer. I'm sure intelligent positive Black people could come up with SOMETHING if they sat down to figure it out. Right here in Detroit the WORD network is one of the largest Black owned broadcasting stations in the nation....but it's Christian/gospel based so much of their programming comes from a religious slant.

I don't agree with everything the man taught but I'll tell you this much....... I've gotten more wisdom and have truth from his teachings that has been VERIFIED and PROVEN to my satisfaction than I've gotten from text books of White so-called "science". Elijah Muhammad was teaching back in the 30s that the White race were genetically weaker than Black people years before White scientists either knew or admitted to such with thier recessive genes and alleles. He also taught that the story of Moses found in the Bible didn't actualy happen but that the REAL Moses had an entirely different history. He was teaching this back in the 1930s. And sure enough in the late 40s Sigmund Freud comes along and writes "Moses and Monotheism" which basically says that the story of Moses in the Bible was indeed false. He taught that the Black man was BILLIONS of years old during a time when most people still believed in The Flood and thought humanity was less than 6000 years old. Again, I don't agree with everything he taught....but I certainly have found no fault in most of it. You can put your faith in White science if you want to. They can't even cure a damn cold but can tell you the origins of man....LOL.

Mel Cynique is right, men and women certainly ARE wired differently and think differently. And most women tend to do just what you're doing right now.... Using EXCEPTIONS as examples to prove her points instead of accepting the GENERAL RULES that we both should see in this society as it relates to Black people especially Black men. 　 You talk about the successful professional Black people you're surrounded by and when I point out the fact that these people are exceptions to the norm in which most people are of AVERAGE intelligence with AVERAGE abilities (as opposed to talents) then you switch it up and say....well....then.....those "average" people (who make up the majority) should ASPIRE to be like the exceptional people by working harder at success. Talking to you is like talking to Obama.....lol. When he was still a candidate he came to Michigan and we had an opportunity to ask him questions and a member of my group asked him what plans did he have to bring back good paying jobs to the inner cities for those without college education. Instead of answering the question, he spent 7 minutes telling us about how he plans to make college affordable to ALL children despite their economic background and how he planned to create the atmosphere to produce more high tech jobs for the rust belt cities. Let me make my points clear and concise: 1. Both men AND women should support eachother. But MOST men need support and encouragement from the women in their community (family, friends, co-workers, ect....) to better themselves and excel in life. Most men...not exceptional men.....but most men need an incentive that gives them a reason to do better and be better in life. For most men those incentives come in the form of pleasures like sex, money, power, ect.... Expecting most men to be successful or try to better themselves for nothing or without the hope of a rewards is like telling someone to be good without promising them a heaven to go to. 2. I haven't met EVERYONE....and I'm willing to wager that neither have you. So I'm not qualified to make the statement that EVERYONE has gifts and talents I can only speak of the people that I've met, lived with/around and worked with/around. Most of them were of average intelligence and of average abilities....although I HAVE met plenty of exceptionally talented people in my life. But again, they are the EXCEPTION and not the rule so I don't base my perceptions of life and what society has to offer on how successful THEY are. What's my point? Listen to me..... My point is AVERAGE Black men will do just fine in a NORMAL society where they don't have so many pressures against them and obstacles in their way. But in THIS society that is heavily influenced by racism both overt and institutional....AVERAGE Black men often end up losing and often times only the most EXCEPTIONAL Black men succeed. In a system of racism that is designed to fail AVERAGE Black children, the exceptionally intelligent will often still succeed. ....but look what the system did to the majority of Black students!!! In a system of racism that is designed to lock up the AVERAGE Black man, the exceptionally smart and law abiding Black man will remain free. ......but look how many averge Black men are locked up behind bars for doing the exact same thing average White men are doing but not being prosecuted for! When you talk about the Black CEOs and business owners you know or who are in your family, you're talking about a MINORITY of Black people who are doing well because of talents, gifts, blessings, or an exceptionally good work ethic. I get it.....I acknowledge that and their efforts. However they are still a MINORITY of Black people who are doing well, which means that in this society the MAJORITY aren't doing well. Why is that? How can the majority of ANY population be wrong???? Would you go to a hospital where the MAJORITY of people end up worse than they were when they came in? Would you start blaming the patients for their terrible condition and start pointing at the few patients who survive and do well as an example of who they should emulate? Or would you investigate the HOSPITAL and STAFF to figure out what the hell THEY are doing wrong to produce such a high casualty rate in a place that is suppose to heal people and make them well? If the majority of a given population (that majority being average) aren't doing well in a particular society, then I believe that something is wrong.....not with that population...but with that SOCIETY and it's infrastructure. Black people are living in a society that has been designed to be against our progress and yes a few EXCEPTIONAL people manage to find success but that doesn't mean we should focus on them instead of trying to change the injustices that are keeping the majority of our people locked out of success. ....and that's how we MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, right Cynique !

Del I worked with a lack woman accountant and our White Male Supervisior, would ignore her and take her ideas as his own. I verified to her that she was not in fact losing her mind. Sometimes you have to be plain with people or else they won't see what you see. Many Black people, especially a lot of Black women just refuse to accept that White people will steal your ideas and incorporate them as their own. They grow up really believing in White people and seeing them as morally upright and generally "good" people and refuse to believe in the obvious. I said before....most Black women aren't taught to beware of White men....they're taught not to trust BLACK MEN. I ttook Black people nearly 20 years to wake up to the fact that White folks were STEALING Hiphop and R&B and trying to incorporate the art as their own. They just refused to believe it. Part of the reason is because many of our people are in love with White people and see them as so benevolent and righteous that they can't fathom that they'd do something so blatantly wrong and disrespectful. On the other hand they have no problem believing a Black person would steal their ideas and often go around accusing eachother of being jealous and "hating" all day long. Cynique With Pioneer, he is constantly thanking me for making his argument, an argument he hasn't even articulated and, in fact, has to have Troy translate what he is trying to say. The reason I constantly thank you for making my arguments is because you tend to be SO argumentative that in the course of our disagreements if I just veer off of my original point to to make another you'll OPPOSE that new one also....which often times leads to you inadvertingly supporting my ORIGINAL POINT.....lol. As a hypothetical example...... I say that men should be incharge and protect and provide for their families. Then you turn around and argue that both should provide for themselves and a woman shouldn't rely on her husband to provide for her. But during the course of the argument I'll make the point that there aren't enough good paying jobs for men today and most of the good paying jobs are occupied by women. Then you'll turn around and say how silly and weak that excuse is and how the men you remember while growing up took care of their families and made no excuses for their short comings. And that's where I would thank you for making my argument....lol. Just like you can look for a broken clock to eventuallly be right some times...... You disagree with me SO much that I can almost always count on you eventually saying SOMETHING that agrees with whatever point I made in the PAST that you.....at that time...refused to acknowledge....lol.

Ahh, I remember Carmen Jones..... And I still remember her in that black bra and zebra panties. Del, what you said reminds me of that scene in Do The Right Thing when Mookie and Pino were discussing race and when Mookie (Spike Lee's character) asks Pino (the Italian racist) why he's so racist and calls Black people "niggers" when his favorite entertainers are Black like Prince and Magic Johnson.....Pino responds by saying that Prince and other celebrities aren't "niggers", they're "different". I thought that was a brilliant scene by Spike because it illustrates the distorted thinking of a lot of White people who see THEIR FAVORITE Black person as different than the OTHER Black people of society in general that they may see more negatively.

Troy Once again you've managed to articulate my point better than I have....lol. Although I have to be honest, I didn't get the impression that Mel was MISUNDERSTANDING the point I was trying to make. She was basically doing the same thing Cynique does from time to time....play games of DENIAL or ACT like she doesn't understand or can't relate to what I'm talking about, lol. A lot of sisters, when they are in the "argumentative mode" will refuse to acknowledge any good or valid points you make or pretend they don't understand them just to dwell on the disagreements. Like you I also prefered jobs where I could use my mind to produce more so than sweating my way through it. I've alway had imaginary VISION and could see things from the beginning to the end. The problem is when it came to the more complex academic studies of my senior year in high school and college, the subjects became a little too difficult for me to keep focus so I dropped out. When it comes to solving PRACTICAL problems or doing PRACTICAL projects...hands on projects where I work directly with people....I shine brilliantly, but when it comes to academics of studying text books and trying to remember what I read and getting quized and tested on it my performance was often dismal. 　 Now I know brothers that get up and go to jobs they hate. They can't "work from home." If they miss a day they lose a days wages. They work to pay bills that can barely afford. They don't travel abroad. take vacations, or even live in very nice place the prospects for the future are not bright. One of the reasons they hate their jobs is because they aren't getting paid enough for them. Ofcourse you always have cats who want the GLAMOROUS jobs where they can dress up and avoid sweating.....but I tell brothers all the time, mopping floors from the rest of your life or driving a school bus or washing dishes....these jobs in and of themselves AREN'T BAD. It's the pay that the problem. If they payed about $20 or $30 an hour....a wage that would be comparable to what Black men were getting 60 years ago when they did these unskilled labor jobs....they could hold them down for the rest of their lives and live decently and even raise a family on them. Somebody has to mop the floors and take out the garbage, but how much are you getting paid to do these jobs....that's the problem. These Brothers need the support of their women. Look, all of us do. It is just that the rich, smart, successful Brothers can compensate for it very easily, because they have far more options that the average man. The average Black man is just more vulnerable. ...and of course Black men should support Black women. The more vulnerable we are the more we need to support each other. Seemingly the more vulnerable you are the less likely you are to get the support you need... This often is the case and I think it's because women have learned to not respect a "needy" man. I understand this to a certain extent, but the problem I have with so many Black women taking this position in this particular society is that they seemingly refuse to accept the role racism has played in denying Black men decent jobs with decent pay. I guess that's what got me so heated about that Nicki Minaj video. Seeing her walk past a group of Black men being beaten up by the police and walks by singing and smiling as if to say, "Fuck them niggas....I ain't thinking about them. That's what they get". It's this cold blooded no longer caring about what is being systematically done to Black men attitude that is disturbing. As if some sisters are more than willing to just capitulate and willingly join on to White male racism and sexism and leave Black men behind if it makes getting a few extra dollars. Cynique My comment would be that we are talking about a very basic tenet. Life is a survival of the fittest, where the strong thrive. Cynique, now come on you know that's not true about the STRONGEST surviving. Look at all these goofy weak and nerdy men walking around with lap top computers and cell phones who are millionaires and billionaires. Look at Bill Gates or Zuckerberg....these guys are physically WEAK and nerdy as hell. No, THIS society has been designed BY weak men FOR weak men to not only survive but thrive because it's based....not on jobs that require strength and physical agility and skill....but the ability to sit still for hours upon hours and play with computers and cell phones. Things that not only DO NOT require a lot of strenth and energy but actually works against those who DO have too much energy and strength to tolerate that sedintery lifestyle. Look how many STRONG Black men who are locked up behind bars because they displayed strength and bravery in a society where being weak and passive is often more prized in men. In past societies they would be rewarded and admired for being muscular, tough, brave, good at phsycial combat...as they often are in the neighborhoods they come from. But in this ARTIFICIAL SOCIETY....the weak nerdy man with fertility problems who can't fight to save his own life is rewarded with a clean criminal record and a good job. Mel Not sure what type of men lean on women but I'm thankful to have missed them. You were born and raised in Brooklyn but now you're gonna sit up here and tell me you "missed" all the brothers who lived off of women or couldn't make it in life. I don't hang out in New York but I've been there on several occasions and know it has it's fair share of dead beats and knuckleheads. But just to be argumentative, you're gonna sit up here and basically tell me all the men YOU'VE known growing up shoveled snow, took care of their elders, and were good men who treated women with respect and never depended on women for any type of support....lol. OK Mel.....lol. Remaining "average" is a choice. As Cynique mentioned "cream rises to the top" . High achievement is a choice Statements like these lets me KNOW that you are not only out of touch with the average Black man/woman in society and don't seem to have a firm grasp on basic human nature. Being average is only a "choice" to GIFTED people who have ABOVE NORMAL qualities but choose not to exercise them. But to the AVERAGE person with normal average qualities....being average isn't a choice but a natural fact of life based on the limited options they were born with. High achievement s a choice ONLY with those who have the ABILITY to achieve If you are gifted with high intelligence....you can use it to achieve greatness or be lazy and choose not to. If you are of average intelligence....you or capacity to learn will be limited no matter how hard you try; which is why so many people end up dropping out of college with tons of student loans. If you are a gifted singer with an angelic voice....yes you have a CHOICE to develop your talent and be the next Mariah Carey or be lazy and neglect your gift. But if you are average with an average Now some people believe EVERYONE is born with some sort of gift or talent. I don't know that this is true. I've dealt with enough people who...although they weren't retarded or deformed....didn't seem to display any sort of extraordinary talent or intelligence in ANYTHING. And these type of people were the majority of the people I've met and do you know what their biggest complaints were? One of the biggest complaints of AVERAGE NORMAL people are the pressures and stresses they get from those at their job or in their family who often tend to be HIGH ACHIEVERS and are always pressuring them to do things they didn't have the physical or mental ability to do. Again, stop making the mistkae of believing everyone can do what YOU can do. This is one of the main reasons many of the problems in our community and in society in general remain unsolved. The solutions are being designed on boards and committees by gifted people of high intelligence or talents that the average person doesn't have and so the programs and solutions are so difficult for the average person on the street to put them into practice they remain ineffective. Anyway, I posed this question to my three daughters. Two of my daughters are dating black men and one is single. So far, two gave thumbs down to the idea black women should support "good" black men. One of my daughters dates a young black man who owns a car repair shop in Cincinnati. He's looking to open up a few more. He doesn't have a college degree but owns his property including the repair shop and he also employs other young black men. He is in his 20s... I'm glad your daughters are dating Black men. Too often the Black girls I'm seeing today, especially those on college campuses are going in two directions: 1. Either they're dating and marrying White men 2. Or they're lesbian I don't know where it's coming from or what's sparking it but I've noticed those two things have become VERY popular among young Black women all over the nation from Seattle to Miami.

I actually take some of what I said back. Upon looking at another video of the incident I do see where some in the crowd actually did mob the car and tried to get the dude. In real life situations like that, there's not too much more you can ask of people. I'm still trying to figure out where the police were while all this fighting and car ramming was going on. Troy Regarding the network it has to be paid for. Unless the government takes the money from us, the way they fund defense, we would never subsidize a network like this on our own. It would take billions to launch a network like CNN. But what's stopping various Black commuities around the nation from starting independent news programs featuring uncensored news through local community access channels? After a dozen of so of them get off the ground, perhaps in a decade or two they can pool their resources together to form a major network. It would be a little difficult, but not impossible. I remember as a kid you had a group of people in the area called Chaldeans who were basically Christians from Iraq who hadn't been in the Detroit area for 10 years before they had 2 of their own community access channels on cable featuring all types of news programs and entertainment shows. Black folks had been in the area for over 100 years and didn't have as much. I think it takes more than money, it takes DESIRE backed up by a strong will. You have BET and TV One and Oprah's network and none of them have an actual an accredited journalistic news team to go around America and stand guard on the front lines of racial incidents like the one in Charlottesville.

Cynique Apes and humans probably share a common ancestor but somewhere along the evolutionary process, they veered off into separate species. Homo Sapiens and Simians may be cousins. But so what? I was actually going to mention this but you beat me to it. The "theory" of evolution teaches that both humans and apes broke off from the same species some time ago. If that is the case, why is it so hard for so many people to believe that apes came from those early humans? 　 　 　 　 Troy Where did you get the idea that apes evolved from man anyway? Since being a kid and just looking at the similarities between humans and apes, especially chimps and gorillas and seeing the smaller tailed monkeys....apes pretty much look like a CROSS BREED between the two...lol. Later as I got older and was introduced to the teachings of Elijah Muhammad, he also taught that apes came from human beings. There used to be an old saying among White men and I'm sure you remember it, "Well I'll be a monkey's uncle". I'm not sure where they got that phrase from but there's probably more truth to that than we'll ever know...lol. Man, it's just a consideration or a mild belief. I'm not standing on the corner preaching it, but if I had to put money on who came from what....I'd put my money more on apes coming from a humans perhaps from some sort of ancient technological experiment with human DNA being cross bred with monkey DNA. But again, I don't push it as fact because I simply don't know.

Mel Lol..... And you call working for a Black man who was a state Secretary for Tax and Revenue an example of "being in touch" with the common man? We're not talking about women who LEAN on men. Nor are we talking about pimps and gigilos who use women as a means of financial support and wealth. We're talking about the AVERAGE man and what the AVERAGE man wants in life. Most heterosexual men want wealth and a satifactory sex life. Even at advanced ages you find men in their 70s and 80s taking pills and trying various techniques to improve their sex life and make themselves more attractive. hi Next to wealth (and sometimes even before wealth) a healthy sexual relationship and social validation by women is the most important material aspect of manhood to the AVERAGE man. Now if a man is ABOVE average (your millionaires, CEOs, gifted artists, ect.....) then their high intelligence and talents may focus them on higher callings and other purposes in life. But again, these aren't your normal or average men.....they make up less than 10% of the population so we shouldn't use them as an example of how men should behave any more than we should point to gay men as an example of how to control yourself around women. I told you before, you sound like a high achiever and for much of your professional life you've been surrounded by other high achievers. Now this isn't necessarily a BAD thing, prosperity and success is good. But one of the problems is it gives you a warped view of what other people are going through because: 1. High achievers tend to only hang around OTHER high achievers and soon begin to only see the reality that exists in their small gifted circle, and 2. Too often high achievers feel that other people can and should be able to do what THEY do and as easily as they do it without understanding the limited abilities of others.

Cynique The anti-protestors did follow your suggestion and descended upon West Virginia to fight back and this just fueled the flames and resulted in death and injury! You win some, you lose some......but atleast that crowd of protestors CONFRONTED the racists instead of runnning away as the NAACP advises. Infact, I was more White people out there fighting these racists than BLACK people! Again, I blame it on the "can't we all just get along" mentality of the NAACP that makes fools out of Black people who beg to get along with and live with their open enemies. The crowd should have surrounded that car and beat the shit out of that driver BEFORE the police got a chance to arrest him. In Black neighborhoods, how many Black men have gotten beaten up or shot by other Black people just for hitting one person BY ACCIDENT? I'm not the toughest man in the world but, you mean to tell me this dude and driver over and hit 35 people and safely sit in the ride until the police come to escort him to safety? Come on......... Troy I'm all for taking a few billion from the defense budget and using it to fund a news agency to free from commercial influence. I've often day dreamed about Black people starting the first mainstream UNCENSORED news network that features nearly unedited stories with the profanity and violence that often accompanies real life events without the blurs and beeps. Perhaps a commercial free network would be the best means of going about this because you wouldn't have to worry about sponsors dropping your programs over disagreements with the content.