Pioneer1

What up bro. ...even the part about more expressive races? Troy Obviously you're not sure about YOLO because no one who truly believes they only live once would risk that one life sky-diving, lol. I'm an Aries BTW.

I don't support the aiding and abetting of violent crime, however in most cases I understand the "no snitch" policy as a matter of good old-fashioned common sense. Hell, the police couldn't (or wouldn't) protect that dude laying in the street with his blood making designs all over the sidewalk. What FOOL is going to walk up to the police in broad open public and start pointing out people and where they live and what they saw to police officers who are probably going to be gone and out of sight within 2 hours leaving them at home all alone without police protection? Most people aren't stupid. If you see the majority of people in a given community engaging in a particular pattern of behavior there's usually a reason WHY.

Not to excuse Jackson's behavior because I abhor adultery and think it should be a felony by law for the pain and damage it causes to most families. However, 2 points should be made: 1. I see this as part of a larger smear campaign to tarnish the image of our revered Civil Rights leaders. ((holds both hands up to calm the women down)) I know...I know...I know..... No ofcourse no one MADE Jesse bang another woman and cheat on his wife. I - know - that. But the fact that the vast majority of White politicians inside and outside of Washington have done and are doing the very same thing but the media keeps THEIR adulterious behavior a well guarded secret while broadcasting every bit of info the can get on Jackson and his son is futher evidence of an agenda going on. But there's another point to be made.... 2. Things like this just support my belief that Black men are living in a society that was not designed by them or for them and until they decide to get together and intelligently plan a society of their own with rules and ethics are established or atleast allowed....many of our leaders will continue to embarass the community with situations like this. This also shows us the importance of having an independant Black media where we can decide on the information our people get and how it's presented.

This was a tragedy.....anytime innocent people are killed it's a tragedy. However Hadiyah wasn't the only innocent girl to get killed since the Newtown massacre, dozens have been killed by accident and probably on purpose since. Why the media is focusing on HER and are just now focusing on the gang problem in Chicago is very suspicious to me. I look at this constant dissing of Chicago and "the gang bangers in the hood" along with the media posting so many videos of Black men engaging in criminal acts like that beating in Jersey and I see an agenda being formulated. "Black on Black crime" is only a small part of the problem. White people engage in the same behavior with eachother when put under the same circumstances. The real problems are poverty and lack of adequate law enforcement. Social scientists KNOW what causes increased robberies, assaults, and murders...they know. You take away the ability of the "average" person to make a living for themselves in a given community, dump those suffering from mental illnesses in that same community, and deplete the police department of officers and you have a skyrocketing violent crime rate. It doesn't take a genius to figure out WHAT is going on, the question is WHY?

Oh shhhnap!! Watch out Delano...... I agree that some ethnicities are more expressive than others and I do believe Black people tend to favor bass in their music but Troy, may have a problem with you "stereotyping" entire groups of people unless you've met every single one of them personally.....lol.

Thanx for pointing out the racism of the Arabs. I'm not sure about the Arabs of the past but many Arabs today are more violently racist than a lot of Europeans! And many of them bring there racist ways of thinking to America where they target Black neighborhoods selling rotten food, engage in gas-gouging, and have even shot and killed Black customers in thier establishments. BTW, I thought the famous library of Timbuktu was actually built by Muslims (Black African) during the old Mali Empire?

Glad to find this thread...... Remembered it and actually went back looking for it after having a conversation about this not too long ago today. Not only are a lot of so-called "Black sites" actually White owned, but I believe they're using White people posing as AfroAmericans to post on these sites to inject certain views and ideas. I've seen so-called "Black" people posting strange things and taking funny positions that I never heard Black people utter in real life. ((rubs chin and ponders))) .....ooohkaaaay....how many Black people brag about having sex with gerbils and hamsters???? One of the reasons a lot of these sites are no longer owned by Blacks is for the same reasons a lot of the television stations aren't owned by Blacks anymore, because a lot of our people lack the discipline to properly run thier own sites. I have a very small site and I've operated larger sites of my own and it takes time, discipline, and a good sense of FAIRNESS to manage a website. You have to keep an eye on everyone and what they post making sure it's safe and legal. You have to be careful not to let your emotions get in the way and play favorites. You can't be hitting on all the women who post on your forums. It costs money and time to get a domain, find a design, and other things necessary to get and operate the site. A lot of our people don't like "managing" things, nor do they like monitoring the behavior of people which is why even in real life on jobs a lot of Black people actually turn down management positions....then turn around and get mad when someone else takes it, lol.

Damn......lol. It ain't THAT....... bad is it? What's up with all the Chicago bashing in the news lately? Chicago isn't the only place people are getting shot and killed; try L.A., Atlanta, and Philly. Also, I've been to Chicago on many occasions and I've seen so many Mexican and Puerto Rican gangs there who fight eachother on a regular basis. Am I to believe they never get hurt or killed? Something very strange is going on. Just like when Bush was in office "Texas" magically became the symbol of conservatism.... It seems that not that Obama is in office "Chicago" is being held as the symbol of liberalsim.....

((unfolds the red tie and lays out the Brooks Brothers suit)) This is the more conservative side of me speaking.............. I'm beginning to understand that inequality isn't necessarily a "bad" thing. As long as there is relatively EQUAL OPPORTUNITY (education, healthcare, application of the law) for all then that's a pretty decent society. It may not be the nicest thing in the world to say but the truth is some people are to various degrees - stupid, lazy, and just plain no damn good and that's what causes a lot of inequality. Usually the same people who are always broke and begging/borrowing money are people who have substance abuse problems. I don't know anyone who doesn't smoke or drink who is poor.

The hostage situation in Alabama is over and they're STILL not talking about what his demands were. I'm telling you, when it comes out he was probably ranting about Obama and gun control. Rightwing conservatives will probably try to make another "Waco" situation out of this and attempt to make this man a hero who was "attacked" by the government....watch for it.

Yes the list you provided were facts but: a) They are "irrelevant" facts that had little to do with the argument any more than reminding me that water boils at 212 degrees b )They were facts that no one disputed in the first place. Nothing in that list you provided disproved my position nor supported yours. But to answer your questions: 1. Do you believe that Black people are dumber that white people due to selective breeding? No. 2. Do you believe Blacks are stronger than whites due to "selective" breeding during our prior of enslavement prior to 1865? I believe Black Americans IN GENERAL are naturally stronger when all other environmental factors (access to decent food, healthcare, ect...) are the same. Ofcourse there are many Whites who are stronger genetically than many Black Americans, but I don't believe this is the normal or average. But I take issue with you asking are my answers "still yes". That seems to imply that they were "yes" all along and I DID NOT say that Blacks were dumber than Whites due to selective breeding. We were talking about masculine/sexual differences, not mental differences. ------------------------ Along with the media trying to make young people think that immorality and dysfunctional families are somehow "normal".....I believe most of this behavior comes from not having fathers in the home to properly enforce rules. Although most mothers and fathers tend to think similarly about what's best for thier children (i.e. safety and a good education); they tend to ENFORCE those rules differently. Most mothers will tolerate thier children (especially thier sons) dressing inappropriately, hanging with the wrong friends, dropping out ot school, or living at home well past the age of 25 while not working. Oh sure, they'll nag and argue with their sons over it, but in the end MOST (not all) love thier sons so much that they would tolerate it in the home rather than see him out on the street. Most fathers won't. Most fathers tend to demand more from thier sons and will often become violent if disobeyed over certain things and eventually kick them out of the house. As much as fathers love thier sons, many will actually kill them if the disrespect goes too far. A few years ago in Detroit there was an incident where a Black father found out his son was molesting his own sister and took him out to a vacant lot and shot him. I doubt any mother would have done that. When there are 2 or more grown men under one roof whether they're related or not there is often a power struggle as one doesn't like the other telling him what to do. This is one of the reasons poly-andry (having more than one husand) usually doesn't work. Plus most sons tend to want to make thier fathers proud of them and this alone encourages high achievement. Having a decent father (not just some man screwing the mother) in the home tends to solve many of the problems that currently exist in the Black community. --------------------------- This is true. This society doesn't have many outlets for young men to establish thier manhood and the typical "heirarchy" that is so important in order for young men to know where they stand in the world. When it comes to men acting more feminine today I have a "dual" take on this issue: 1. First of all I may as well make it clear and it will probably come as no surprise given my other views that I see see homosexuality as an abnormality and sexual perversion. However I don't believe in hurting or harassing people simply because they are gay. However having said that......... There is a difference between homosexuality and the behavior of a lot of Black and AfroLatino males who tend to were a lot of cologne, loud colors, jewelry, and braided hair with earring. Actually, I see this as something called "ATAVISM" which is a sort of racial memory embedded in a person. Like I said in other posts that people of African decent whether they are AfroAmerican, Latino, Arab, or even some Italians seem to have certain traits in common like liking bass in the music, loud bright colors, ect......that is almost genetically imbedded. Since America was founded by Northern Europeans, much of the traditional American culture reflects that dull colored cold conservatism found in Germany and England where people didn't dress too colorfully or believe in a lot of flash and flamboyancy. So when Blacks, Latinos, and others are finally free to express their "true" nature (ATAVISM), often times it clashes with the traditional one and may be seen as not very masculine. 2. One of the reason so many men aren't dressing or acting as masculine as they did in the past is because there is no need for them to., a) Most men live in urban environments where they don't have to know how to hunt or fight to protect their women and children from wild animals and provide for the family like times in the past. b )Because almost every part of this nation has a police department you can call if you are in trouble there is no demand that boys be taught how to fight off other males who may try to take their property or their women. c) The job situation today is different. When you have a job in an office working around women where the environment is more "delicate" then you tend to dress in softer clothes and speak in a softer and less vulgar manor. There aren't as many jobs that require hard manual labor today as there were in the past. One of the things I push for is more manufacturing jobs and skilled trade jobs like plumbing, carpentry, and electricians where a person without a college degree can earn a decent living. Everyone can't or won't go to college and even fewer will get jobs that require college degrees, so we must find a way where millions of men and women who don't have a college education can make a DECENT living for themselves.

The list you provided was not evidence to support your assertion that the testosterone level between Black Americans and White Americans are the same. It was a list of opinions and "feel good" general facts that no one disputes. Ofcourse humans aren't dogs. Ofcourse strength is improved with training., No one denies any of these facts, but all the training in the world won't turn Justin into Mike, his bones and chemistry are just different. Justin Beiber is nearly 20 years old and still looks like a teenage girl, you KNOW that boy couldn't get a body like Tyson from just working out, lol He'd have to take a lot of steroid and growth hormones to even come close.....lol. I believe too many Black men in America have been tricked into being ashamed of thier masculinity. It starts in the classroom where teachers make young Black boys feel uncomfortable when their voices start changing during puberty and it makes them want to drop out of school and drop out of society. While on one end of the spectrum you have those who are trying to make Black men deny thier masculinity, on the other end of the same spectrum you have forces working to encourage homosexuality and femininity among Black males. White men make fun of homosexuality on television and in the movies all day long, let a Black actor or athlete do it and all types of pressure comes on him to apologize. This sends a message to other Black males that they better not speak their mind or there might be consequences, just take the money and go along with "the program". ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Many Black Muslims are strict on not just Black conciousness but on the importance of MORALITY and the role it plays in your success in life. I didn't understand it's importance when I was younger but as I got older and saw what was going on in my city and the nation in general the more I see that immorality and unethical behavior seem to be the biggest enemies of Black people.....not racism coming from Whites. I know from not just observation but experience that if you try to live a righteous and moral life, you tend to be successful and nothing negative (racism, crime, poverty, ect....) seems to affect you like it will those who have no moral foundation.

Troy No one is denying that we are all humans...lol. But we all know that humans vary from one end of the spectrum to the other. Some men are more masculine than other men, some women are more feminine than other women, and some people are split down the middle to the point you can't really categorize them in either gender. Now again, it is a known scientific fact (whether you want to acknowledge it or not) that Black men in America have more testosterone than White men. A fact that I have provided evidence to support; and a fact that you disagree with but haven't provided any evidence to the contrary. Sure a person can get stronger by exercise, but I doubt all the training in the world will turn a popular ball of hair, eye liner, and grease (otherwise known as Justin Beiber) into a Mike Tyson. The genetics just aren't there! Selective breeding and using genetics to achieve a better result is nothing new, the Greeks were practicing it thousands of years ago by saving only the healthiest babies and throwing those with deformities into pits to die. You don't have to know HOW something works to realize that it works. Slavers may have been as illiterate as they were immoral but they still knew what they were doing when they would take a big strong slave from one plantation to the next to have sex with slave women and produce strong children. I think we should also examine why you and many other Black men feel the need to downplay the well known and often celebrated sexuality/masculinity of the American Black male. Is it natural for a man to deny the virility of his particular group? Or have Black men been "tricked" into denying thier own power through feminism and the subconscious fear of what White men may think of them and even do to them by examples in history? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not suggesting that adulters be imprisoned for cheating. Jail time wouldn't be a very good punishment anyway because if the offender is the main financial supporter of the family and they are imprisoned then that means the family's means of support would come to an abrupt end. But given the importance of a stable family and especially with regard to children....I do think there should be some sort of legal punishment for those who break their social/civil contracts with their spouses. Justice has a way of establishing itself. Despite the fact that there are no enforced laws against cheating on your spouse in the United States, do you know how many murders and other acts of violence occur as a result of infidelity? Probably a quarter of all murders in America take place from people who suspected their partners were unfaithful to them. If you want a secular society where people are told there is no "divine retribution" for what they do, then the law should step in to enforce certain moral standards to maintain peace. While I believe in a society where people should have the relative freedom to do and believe in what they wish as long as it doesn't encroach on the rights of others; I DO believe their should be some universal agreement on certain principles, ethics, and morals in society. The Nation of Islam is a good example of moral clarity and discipline for the Black community. I've studied the teachings of the Nation of Islam extensively, both the original Nation of Islam under Elijah Muhammad and the current one under Minister Farrakhan. I even attend lectures at Mosque #1 in Detroit and other cities I lived in every now and then. I think they should have a more prominent role in reforming the Black community as well as other religious and non-religious groups. However I personally can't agree with all White people being "devils"....lol...or the belief that there is no life after physical death, both of which seem to among their central beliefs. I don't have to tell you this, but we must be careful when trying to introduce rules from a religious ideaological source because a lot of people will be offended and turned off because of the source regardless as to how beneficial a particular idea may be. For example, when you go into a meeting by the Nation of Islam, the men and women are separated so that the men can concentrate on the speaker instead of focusing on the woman sitting next to him. This is an excellent idea that I think works in schools when it comes to teaching young boys, but if people knew it came from "them mooslums" some may reject it.

Admin There is a difference between something being your FAULT and something being your RESPONSIBILITY. The high unemployment rate is certainly not Mr.Obama's fault because he didn't cause it nor did he intend it, however as the national leader it IS his responsibility to bring it down. Improving the economy is one of the reasons he was elected. During the economic debate over how to create more jobs, with an Democrat House and Senate he had an opportunity to do the Roosevelt thing and bypass the local governments and private sector to establish federally backed jobs all over America and quickly get millions of unskilled and lowskilled unemployed back to work on infrastructure building projects. Instead, he signed in some half-assed plan that gave billions of dollars to private businesses and the state governments and charged THEM with the responsibility to do the hiring. Did I mention that many of these states are ran by corrupt right-wing governors who'd do anything to see Obama fail? And as most people who were against this approach in the first place predicted, the plan (of which nearly half of it consisted of tax cuts) FAILED. After giving jobs to a handful of their trusted cronies, most of the billions that these governors received ended up unaccounted for and the unemployment rate either remained the same or increased leaving millions of people still unemployed and now even angrier and more distrustful of anything coming out of the federal government. Get ready for another "well known secret" of the Black community.........lol. Outside of the fact that too many Black men have felony records that give discriminatory employers an excuse not to even consider them in the first place......one of the MAIN reasons the Black unememployment rate is so high today is because many young Black men simply no longer have an incentive to work. Even if jobs become available. Good, easy, well paying jobs...... A large percentage of our brothers won't apply for them because they have no incentive to get out and work. They have women who are more than willing to take care of them. If there mothers aren't taking care of them, they have wives and girlfriends who are feeding, clothing, and sheltering them plus giving them all the sex they want. This is why you no longer see young Black men engaging in riots and protests over mass unemployment and job discrimination like you see among young men in Asia and even parts of Europe today. In past generations, when Black men were charged with the responsibility for supporting not only themselves but thier wives and children, they didn't tolerate being unemployed to well, lol. They were hungry and desparate and something had to be done. But hell, if you have several women fighting eachother to make you thier "man" and take care of you then why get out in the street and risk getting a lick upside the head by a billclub fighting for a job you really don't want in the first place. May as well stay at home sitting in your robe smoking weed and eating Cap'n Crunch. In an indirect way the Obama Administration is responsible for this as well. Just like the healthcare debate where instead of demanding Universal Healthcare he started off compromising and wouldn't even consider a Public Option......he's lukewarm and wishy-washy on this issue. Rather than starting off with a plan to ban assault weapons and giving himself some room to compromise, he starts off with a mild "....uh can we atleat get a national background check please'sir " position. 23 executive orders.....none of which actually bans anything or makes any real impact. But just enough to further piss off right-wing gun nuts who didn't trust him to begin with and gives them more evidence to support thier suspicions. If I were a betting man, I'd bet the man down in Alabama holding that little boy hostage is one of those nuts who is against Obama and believes the government is coming for his guns. If you notice, the media talks a lot about his background but is being very silent on his "list of demands". Cynique Now that was a terrible thing to say to man. 'talking about you don' t want to be in his harem. ((shakes head)) I'll tell ya.....I'd really like an apology. But I suppose I won't get one from YOU will I?

It's because of incidents like THIS that I suggested AfroAmericans establish a Literary/Academic Center. Currently, most nations in Africa and Asia are too unstable to keep priceless material like that safe. Who knows how much history has been lost from fighting, neglect, and selling off artifacts for a quick buck.

Like most New Yorkers, you seem to only be calling Manhattan itself NYC and not including the other boroughs which have large middleclass neighborhoods. But you're right about the cost of living there. From what I see New York does't have the "comfortable working class" that the upper Midwest has where a person can work at a Home Depot or be a city bus driver and if their partner works too they can work on buying a house. The service industry there gets paid peanuts comparably if you factor in the cost of living. But again, that "struggle" seems to bring out the best and highest quality of service in many people. I'm not sure about the public vrs private schools in New York, but in the Detroit area the vast majority of the private schools (really parochial schools)....academically speaking.....are no better than the public schools. When you send you children to these private Catholic based parochial schools, the only thing you're really paying for is safety and a smaller class size. They cost anywhere between $5,000 - $20,000 a year and will take just about anybody who can pay. You give them the money and they'll slap a uniform on your kid and shuffle them into the next class available. But the REAL private schools where you get the most excellent education generally aren't found in any urban area but are tucked away in the woods and they cost over $50,000 a year (unless it's a boarding school) and are very discriminating in who they accept. It would be much easier if people of like-minds got together and concentrated thier efforts instead of doing everything individually. But then again, that would be a matter of trust. Black people who share similar values should live near eachother and pool their resources to manifest what they desire for themselves and their children. Living around people who don't want to do anything...and even worse don't want YOU to do anything, is very stressful.

Why do you ask...lol.Are you planning on auditioning to become a member? If you promise not to make any trouble, I'll give you some balloon pants, a top, and put you in my personal harem.

1. As Troy already suggested, the unemployment figures are GROSSLY underestimated. But this didn't start with Obama, it actually started with Ronald Reagan. Before he took office they actually counted every ablebodied adult who didn't have a job as unemployed.....and the rate was around 8%. When Reagan took office he oversaw the shutting down of many of the manufacturing jobs that were in the cities with most of them moving out into rural areas or out of the country all together and the urban unemployment rate skyrocketed to well over 20% where it remains. However the stats didn't reflect this because under his administration people in jail, in prison, or people who gave up and stopped looking for work were no longer included in the statistics. Which brings me to my next point........ 2. I really believe that the unemployment rate today IS higher than it was when Bush was in office; because when Obama won the election most of the corporations started laying off people in massive numbers. Now THIS wasn't Obama's fault. Corporate executives are conservative and don't like regulations. They anticipated a Democrat would bring more regulations so they decided to dump thier losses and hold thier money until they figure Republicans get back in power. Where I DO blame Obama is in how he's handling the unemployment situation. Instead of creating a Federal jobs program like Roosevelt did during the Depression to give everyone a job who wants one......he is putting too much of the responsibility on the states and private firms to hire people. By the grace of God I hope to have a huge firm in the near future. It's not my responsibility to help bring down the unemployment rate needlessly hiring hundres of people just to give them a pay check and benefits! It's my responsibility to MAKE MONEY and hire the people I need to help me do that and pay them a decent wage. It's the GOVERNMENT'S responsibility to make sure the people's needs are taking care of (jobs, healthcare, housing, ect....) and they shouldn't force that responsibility on others.

I'm not a Christian, nor do I see the Bible (as a whole atleast) as the inspired word of God; however our people need to come out of this inferiority mindset that everytime history talks about slavery they automatically assume it's talking about THEM. Little know history reveals Black Africans and Arabs out of Northern Africa collectively known as Saracens enslaved thousands if not millions of Europeans when Muslims controled much of Southern Europe. One of the reason Greeks, Italians, and Spaniards often have such dark skin, curly hair, and can dance and sing as well as they do, LOL * And Arabs had been enslaving Eastern Europeans from the Baltic region for nearly a thousand years even before then. Infact, so many Europeans were enslaved that the word "slave" came out of the word "Slavic". I'm not justifying slavery by any means, but just putting it in perspective so that Black folks don't freak out and fall on the ground and start wallowing and crying everytime they hear the term "slave" in history.

I really think some of you need to consider moving to the state of Michigan to establish a concentration of AfroAmerican writers. Instead of hanging around White publishers and movie studios in New York and Los Angeles begging them to recognize your work and often having to write stereotypical degrading material just to make money.....why not build a literary center of OUR OWN? The Black community is in desparate need of a contemporary INTELLIGENCIA. Where are the Black philosophers? Where are the Black publishing houses? Do we really need more pimp/playa ghetto garbage novels aimed at twisting the minds of our young girls to make them see every Black male as an adversary they shouldn't trust? Do we really need more movie scripts that portray Black men as dope dealing criminals, childish buffoons, moral degenerates, and now flamboyant effeminates? We need those who are gifted in the art of imagination to help us draw the blueprints for a New America.

Mercy killing??? I have no fear of someone so egostical and shallow that even when they KNOW they are in error -instead of exiting on a peaceful note- would rather resort to pulling juvenile diversionary tactics to try to get the last word in. People like that usually end up tripping over their own words; as you apparently have several times, lol. I need to brush up on my defensive skillz anyway. ((eyebrows raised and head tilted to the side)) Come on wit' it..........

Fate of Timbuktu manuscripts uncertain as library burns The fate of tens of thousands ancient manuscripts in Mali remained uncertain Monday as French troops liberated the city of Timbuktu from Islamic insurgents who were said to have set fire to the library there. Timbuktu is the last major city occupied by the insurgents, who have held sway there for 10 months, imposing the strict Islamic version of religious law, including carrying out public executions and amputations for crimes. The city, a UNESCO World Heritage Site, was an especially vibrant center of Islamic thought in the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries. As the Guardian explains in a retrospective article today, the manuscripts collected in the city “cover areas such as medicine and astronomy, as well as poetry, literature and Islamic law. Many were kept for centuries in private family libraries, passed down through the generations.” In recent years, some 20,000 of these manuscripts were collected in the new Ahmed Baba Institute of Higher Islamic Studies and Research. When the insurgent army occupied Timbuktu last year, they used the 50,000 square-foot complex as a sleeping quarters. On Monday, Timbuktu mayor Hallé Ousmani Cissé told the Guardian that on Saturday the militants torched two buildings containing the manuscripts. “"This is terrible news,” he said. “The manuscripts were a part not only of Mali's heritage but the world's heritage. By destroying them they threaten the world.” The mayor spoke to the Guardian by phone and was not in Timbuktu but in the Malian capital of Bamako. And it is not yet known how much damage was done to the library, which had also been in the process of digitizing many of the documents. Many of the documents were stored in underground vaults. Most are in Arabic, but there are many in other languages, including Songhai, Tamashek, Bambara, Turkish and Hebrew. The oldest dates from the year 1204. A Wikipedia entry on the Timbuktu manuscripts contains several beautiful images of the documents. http://www.latimes.com/features/books/jacketcopy/la-et-jc-fate-of-timbuktu-manuscripts-uncertain-as-library-burns-20130128,0,5367392.story

Troy ((Pioneer looks at Troy....looks at the audience...then raises his brows in amazement)) I thought it was almost universal knowledge among most educated Black people that slaves were selectively bred for health and strength. You haven't heard of Black men and women being examined on the auction block for muscularity, healthy, size of hands for doing manual labor, ect...? You haven't heard of the "studs" who were taken from one plantation to the next to have sex with the women and produce healthy strong children? What Black people went through was called "peculiar institution" because of the unusual circumstances they went through in the process of making slaves that was different from anything practiced anywhere else in the world. If you aren't familiar with the process by which a free and independant people from Africa were taken and transformed into a submissive labor force I suggest you start by reading a book called. 64 Years To Make A Negro By Alfred Ali It's quite detailed on the process on how Black people directly from Africa were "bred" in the Carribean islands before being brought to the mainlands of North and South America.. Like any social institution, marriage is as strong as the laws that enforce it. How many people go to jail over adultery in America? How many people are threatened with a physical punishment for abandoning or neglecting their responsibilities to the children they produce? I'm not proposing that draconian measures be instituted in Black America to ensure the family stays in tact, but I do think the penalties for destructive acts that lead to broken families be a bit more harsh than they are. In most African and Asian nations today, the penalty for cheating on a spouse or abandoning/neglecting your responsibilities as a parent are much much harsher than in the West. Say what you will about those societies, but Africans are just as "Black" as Black Americans but aren't suffering from nearly the same level of broken families and fatherless children even during times of famine and warfare. So that should tell you it's not the PEOPLE (Black people) who are the problem but the ENVIRONMENT those people find themselves in that create the problems.

Troy You may have asked that question in a spirit of sarcasm but it's actually has some truth to it Just like suppressed energy seeks an outlet in ways that are sometimes destructive, sexual energy and power that is improperly managed often expresses itself in perverted and destructive ways. As I've said before, AfroAmerican men (who are known to have a very high sexual/masculine energy by most social and medical scientists) live and are forced to function in a society that was not designed by or for them. Unlike the ancient African societies that brought young males through a "rites of passage" to properly educate them on thier masculinity; young Black males in modern America are not given the proper knowledge or discipline to know what to do with thier powerful energy. I suspect this is the reason so many Black and Brown children are diagnosed with behavioral problem like ADD and ADHD in school. Compared to less energetic White children, ofcourse young Black and Latino children would be considered unusually hyper and active. See, there's a difference between a "man" and a "gentleman". ((where is Cynique now...lol)) A man is any male who reaches the state of sexual/physical maturity. He's capable of making babies with women, inflicting damage in society due to the increased muscular strength and aggression that testosterone gives him. But a gentleman is a man who is refined and has the knowledge and values to be a productive member of the society he resides in through the PROPER use of his masculine powers. Having a lot of children by different women isn't necessarily a bad thing in and of itself, it depends on how those children are raised. According to the Bible Jacob had 12 sons by several different "baby mamas" and those sons eventually founded a nation.

Admin You apparently forgot when I told you: "I personally think it's a mixture of both. Some things about our selves we can control, others we have no control over." How you got "an intelligent being pulling all the strings" from that is beyond me. As far as this thread is concerned......lol.....progress will begin when you accurately understand my position that I believe SOME things are predetermined and SOME things are a matter of personal choice outside of any predestined factors that may affect our thinking. Delano Instinct is a very subjective term, but drive and ambition I would categorize as emotions.