Pioneer1

　 Troy It is fascinating to see how malleable your thought process is. Rather that just concede that you now agree with what I've been saying all along you have the balls to write; "The fact is, race is a CONCEPT.....an idea" and make it seem like you are making a revelation?! Man what are you talking about? Since day one I have AGREED with you that race was a human construct! Infact, if you look at the FIRST PAGE OF THIS VERY THREAD I all abut said this very thing when I told you: "Just because it's a human construct, doesn't mean it doesn't exist." https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/4850-actually-troy/?page=1 　 I've NEVER denied that the concept of race was a human construct. So are the concepts of "sex" and "gender". I said that race was a way of CATEGORIZING PEOPLE and all categories are human constructs. At any rate, given that statement, one you've seemly integrated, unconsciously, that idea that race is just an idea without basis in genetics. Again, I've NEVER denied that race was a human construct. What I said WAS NOT a "human construct" were the PHENOTYPICAL FEATURES (skin color, eye color, hair color and texture, nose/lip shape) that the racial categories are based upon. Those are physical genetically based features. Just like SEX is a human construct, but the PENIS and VAGINA that the construct of sex is based upon is NOT. I also told you that just because something is a human construct, doesn't mean it has no validity. Literacy is a human construct.....but it's valid and useful. Counting is a human construct....but it's valid and useful. Medicine and health care are human constructs.....but they are valid and useful. Cynique This is yet another example of how you CHANGE your position just to oppose me, lol. We know that you AGREE with my idea that various races exist....yet you pretend that you're agreeing with Troy.

Zaji If we build a Utopia, it has to be built based on BLACK THOUGHT or the way the BLACK PSYCHE operates. Bellamy's work was entertaining, but it's impractical for Black people because what motivates White people to behave a certain way aren't necessarily the same things that will motivate Black people. This is one of the reasons that the type of Communism and Socialism that Marx and Engles promoted didn't produce the results among Black societies who tried it the way it did for Europeans societies. The societies of color where it DID work....China, Cuba, North Korea....it had to be modified from it's original doctrine. One of the major reason for this is despite Communism's atheistic approach....because of it's European origins...it's basic social morals are is still rooted in the Judeo-Christian moral ethic that so dominates the psyche of most Europeans. Meaning, even those who call themselves ATHEIST still believe in Christian priciples of morality. So for example.......... The EUROPEAN vision of a Utopia would still hold up the NUCLEAR FAMILY as ideal and probably still ban prostitution and sexual liberation; however we know that for Black people the EXTENDED FAMILY is best and we also know that sexual oppression and suppression is one of the major reasons there is NOT a Utopia on the planet currently. So the very principles OF those who claim they want a Utopia are the very principles that will CANCEL OUT that Utopia for others.

Troy {deep sigh} @Pioneer1, Racism is real. The claims being made by so called Black people are perfectly valid. However, the foundation for the claims made by racist, like white superiority, are baseless. Lol........ See, this is what Del is talking about when he refers to you and Cynique having "emotional" reactions to what I say instead of meeting me on a strictly logical level. Instead of sighing and groaning and talking about how baseless and silly the argument is, why not just DISPROVE it? The fact is, race is a CONCEPT.....an idea And it's very hard and next to impossible to invalidate a CONCEPT. Zaji Yes. I agree. It is irrelevant whether race is real or not real in this context. Racism is real because it is a behavior based on a belief. If a psycho BELIEVES that I am a demon and that all demons sent by Satan should be killed, he/she will ACT based on this erroneous belief. Am I a demon? Maybe. Maybe not. But it won't matter to the psycho who has power over me and thinks I'm a demon, and, who might even be hallucinating and physically seeing me as a demon. He will try to kill me based on what HE sees, NOT what I see and believe I know to be true about myself. Absolutely, and to add on to what you said...... One of the problems with trying to deny the existence of race is the fact that racists are RUNNING much of the society we live in! Whether TROY believe in the concept of race or not: The DOCTOR he goes to see might. The POLICE OFFICER who stops him on the street might. The PRESIDENT who lead the nation he's living in might. The STAFF of his place of employement may have individuals who DO see race. And if THESE people not only believe in the concept of race but also see THEIR race as superior and TROY'S as inferior then this will pose very real problems for him. So it would be wise to understand and accept the concept of race whether one thinks it's valid or not.

Bottom line, 99% of what we know we get from methods we cannot personally confirm. It's a sad truth I really think we should pay closer attention to this fact and the reasons behind it. Why is it that so much of the information that we as AfroAmericans put our trust in and shape our lives around come from OUTSIDE of our community? Malcolm X said if a man won't TREAT you right, what makes you think he'll TEACH you right. I also believe RELIGION in general plays a major role in conditioning our minds to just "accept" certain things as true whether we have verified them or not.

**revisit**

Troy of course the "claims" of racists are fictitious; that does not mean racism does not exist. Are you deliberately being obtuse? I didn't say the claims of "racists" are ficticious; I said that IF the concept of race is fiction.....as you say....then that means that the concept of RACISM and all the CLAIMS OF RACISM would also be ficticious. In other words....... If race doesn't exist....then that would mean that the claims that so-called Black people make about being racially discriminated against because of their race are a bunch of nonsense.

Zaji I actually JUST edited my post to address something you wrote, I'm not sure if you saw it yet.

Zaji and Mel You two are talking way over my head.....lol. 　 　 Sssneak I often wondered why they didn't show up and side with him. Because zaji is invariably in lock step with him, i now have my suspicions, and while she is watching me, i am watching her Lol.....sssneaky As for that other crap you wrote up there, You have an absolutely INSANE imagination.....lol. 　

Zaji Without some sort of currency or monetary system, what incentive would there be for MOST people to work or atleast do enough to keep the society functioning? I say "most" because ofcourse you have some people who would do things for free for the good of the community, but I don't think most people would. Delano If Black people worried about getting killed by White people everytime you generated wealth or makd money then you wouldn't have Oprah, Bill Cosby, and countless other wealthy Black people known and unknown. It's NOT HAVING money that is more likely to get you killed. When you're broke and desperate on the street you're more likely to commit crimes that will get you either killed by other Blacks, by the police, or just get you incarcerated. Elijah Muhammad and his followers called White people "devils" to their faces and amassed a multi-million dollar empire....lol. Black people are the original owners and rulers of this planet bro. Collectively we get what we WANT to get when we make up our minds to get it. I've seen this personally on multiple occasions. The main reason Black people in America (and quite possibly around the world) are in the condition they're in today is because most are too lazy to think for themselves and would rather do the easy thing which is beg White people to take care of them. In other words..... Instead of investing the effort to learn how to build a car for themselves and doing it.....they'd rather beg one White man for a job and take the money they earned to BUY a car from another White man. But don't worry.... Trump is putting an end to that, lol.

Rayane I didn't feel that I was belonging, that I was accepted When you said you didn't feel like you belonged or were accepted, my questions are: You didn't feel like you belonged WHERE? And you didn't feel like you were accepted by WHO? Could you be very specific about the settings of the "where" and describe the people of the "who" in as much detail as possible.

Perhaps the problem isn't words but the mis-education behind the real meaning OF those words. Most Americans and especially poor and working class people who went to public schools are INTENTIALLY poorly educated, especially when it comes to grammar. I'm not sure about other languages but the average usage of words in everyday American life is EXTREMELY limited. Out of the possibly tens if not hundreds of thousands of words in the English language, probably less than a 1000 are used by most people. You can read older documents like the Federalist Papers and the U.S. Constitution and the vocabulary they used when writing them to see how far the language of the United States has "devolved"....lol. So although speech and words are limited, it wouldn't hurt to atleast KNOW ALL of them and begin putting them into use. Also........ As African people our minds....our psyche....seem to process and produce information differently than the European mind. Because of this, no matter where you go whether it's in Haiti, Jamaica, Brazil or Nigeria, Senegal and South Africa....the Black people have MODIFIED the European language they were forced to speak to fit their own syntax and psyche. It's often called "slang", "ebonics", or "broken English"....but whatever European language was imposed upon them wasn't sophisticated enough to capture the intent, style, swag, and depth of most African minds. Zaji This culture is focused on the words in a dictionary and keeping us trapped in that. When in many old world cultures, meaning was what was primary This is true. Even in this society despite the fact that we speak a form of English, when interacting with eachtother most Black folks focus far more on what we MEAN than by our actual words. If you're out with your husband....you can tell by how another woman says "hello" to him whether or not she's greeting him or means something else, lol. Antoine Fischer.....who's life a movie was based on....said that his foster mother used to call him and his brothers "nigga" on a regular basis but they could all tell which one she was calling by the TONE she said it in....lol.

Troy Race is fiction. Racism is real. Come on man....lol. If RACE is fiction then it logically follows that all claims of RACE-ISM are also ficticious.

Cynique Let's make a deal. Quit responding to my posts, and i'll do the same to yours. I don't make "deals with the devil".....lol. So how about I just respond to whatever I like and you ignore it? As for Zaji....... Perhaps she's just part of my "composite" that Mel was speaking of, lol. Be careful.... There might be an entire REGIMENT of "Pioneers" somewhere in a computer lab taking turns trying to teach YOUR ass some sense....lol. If you can't handle Pioneer1........what are you going to do when Pioneer2, Pioneer3, and Pioneers 4-89 show up????

Zaji Excellent topic. Delano has seen more of this world than I have so probably he's better qualified to answer your question but let me just say............... I believe based on my observations that with a few exceptions like East Asians....most people of color around the world are doing quite poorly economically speaking. Slavery and colonialism have stripped them of their ORIGINAL KNOWLEDGE and replaced it with Western civilization. Because of this 2 problems have arose: 1. Most communities of color around the world no longer know how to provide the basic necessities for themselves in the amount necessary to sustain themselves independently. 2. Also important is that fact that Western civilization has change the VALUE SYSTEM of people of color around the world so that what they value NOW isn't necessarily what they valued hundreds of years before contact with European powers. You mentioned the monetary system, however TRUE wealth is: Health.....knowledge of medicine and the body Land...to build shelter and grow food Knowledge.....not simply going to a university in a Western country just to get a useless degree and beg for a job with Amazon, but REAL knowledge that allows you to do whatever you need and desire to do. Family.....proper marriage and mating customs that produce harmony between the sexes Money is just a means of exchange, all of the money in the world is useless unless you have secured the above mentioned. People of color need to RE-PRIORITIZE their values and recognize that they have the ability to produce an abundance of REAL WEALTH right where they stand.....and they don't need "money" to do it. All they need is a real desire to re-build their civilizations and break their love affair with Western civilization, then their own creativity will take over. But to answer your question more directly....yes we DO have leverage, especially those of us here in the United States. The United States is in a unique position of being a very wealthy nation but with far fewer financial regulations than most other wealthy nations; which means it's easier for Black people in the United States to accumulate money and play around with it than in most other parts of the world where either they DON'T have the money available to them OR they have it but it's all tied up in red tape and their ability to use their money is restricted.

Troy I can't entertain stereotypes -- indeed they are racist. If RACE doesn't exist....how can RACISM and RACIST stereotypes exist? It would be like me calling the Easter Bunny a buck-tooth fool and you getting upset and saying I shouldn't insult the Easter Bunny that way. If there is no White race or Black race then how can any talk of them be considered racist?

I noticed this even as a teenager working for and with White people on jobs. White people would do everything the hard way and insist on everyone else following their lead. Even if I found an easier and better way to mop a floor or sort papers.....they'd often times either refuse to do it that way and TRY to force me not to either OR they'd take the easy way and MAKE it hard by increasing the production.....lol. In other words............. If a worker had to clearn atleast one floor of an office building every night and this would take them the entire night only to go home tired- If you found a way to get the entire project done in half the time and go home feeling fine, those bastards would try to FORCE you to either stop doing it that way OR force you to do TWO FLOORS in one night!! As much as I critize the Asians, one thing I notice about them is when there are NO White people around and they're running their own businesses their way....it runs much smoother and far more effiencent.

Troy The pyramids are an excellent example of BLACK SCIENCE and what we can accomplish when we employ it.

I think traveling to other lands and meeting different people's is one of the best things you can do to educate yourself. Believe it or not, in my brief visits to Europe I learned a lot more about AMERICA. I would look at the buildings in Europe and recognize that THIS is probably what they were trying to build in Philadelphia or Chicago....but didn't have the patience to do so....lol. I found out that White Europeans tended to have a different mentality on certain things than White Americans. I always encourage AfroAmericans to travel. Get a passport and get out of the country every now and then to see other possibilities and other ways of thinking and doing things. But at the end of the day, America is where it's at...... THIS IS OUR HOME. If Black people don't learn some sense and settle down here and get some land, business, and a proper knowledge of themselves and the world HERE...it's useless to pack their backs and go running off anywhere else. If you're a fool in Los Angeles....you're gonna be a fool in Lagos or Capetown or Berlin or Shang Hai. With the right knowledge....Black people can turn Haiti into Fantasy Island.

Zaji Originally we didn't need written laws. Our very nature was that of righteousness. You only have to tell someone NOT to sleep with animals if they were. You only have to tell someone NOT to sacrifice their children to a big wooden statue if they actually doing these things. You have to tell them what to eat and how to eat to keep them from getting sick. Religion....especially scripted religion was made for Caucasians in order to GIVE them a framework to build their civilizations on. The original belief system of people of color around the planet is what some would call ANCESTRAL WORSHIP or ANCESTRAL VENERATION where you are reunited with your ancestors and relatives when you die.

I know that Black people invented science and I know there are Black scientists. Knowledge is knowledge. Truth is truth. It doesn't have a color or race to it....... BUT THOSE PRESENTING THAT KNOWELDGE AND TRUTH TO US DO HAVE A RACE/COLOR TO THEM! And if those who are presenting that knowledge are racist with evil ulterior motives then they will skew that knowledge, hide it, and corrupt it. And every other scientist THAT FOLLOW in their footsteps through that same scientific methods they practice will be just as confused and corrupted as they are....either wittingly or unwittingly. Which is the problem I have with many of these so-called Black scientists who get their training from Western academic institutions. They are just getting hand-me-down knowledge from smarter even more educated White folks. But much of that knowledge has been skewed and corrupted. I consider George Washington Carver a Black scientist who practiced Black or neutral science. He had his own laboratory where he went directly into nature HIMSELF and actually talked to the plants and studied them up close with his own hands and arrived at his OWN conclusions. And invented over 300 product just from the peanut alone. When Black people practice science in OUR OWN way using OUR OWN methods un-encumbered by the restrictions of the typical Western scientific format....we excell at phenomenal levels. It's the same way.....not just with science....but with everything else. When Black folks freed themselves from the restrictions of Western music and made our own....we produced JAZZ, MOTOWN, RAP. We had the entire world bouncing and rocking to what we produced.....because we did it OUR WAY, not their way. If we'd only practice science OUR WAY...we could cure the planet and everyone on it.

Zaji We need to go back to OUR science and stop following behind them. They are nothing more than intellectual thieves who have bastardized the discoveries and inventions of others. I'm glad you said they stole it AND bastardized it. It's one thing to steal someone's idea and claim it as your own....that's bad enough; but to steal it and change the original meaning of it! Most authors, poets, and singers tell those who steal their work say, "If you're gonna steal my work...you should atleast sing it right!" "If you're gonna steal my quotes....atleast put the original meaning on it". A lot of the times when Whites steal original Black knowledge they corrupt it to the point that it no longer has any real meaning and is utterly confusing and useless. I suspect that where most of these crazy religions come from.....ancient Black knowledge that was corrupted and mythologized to the point of being irrecognizable. The 42 Laws of Maat turns into the 10 Commandments.....for people who routinely break all 10 of them. The fasting of the ancients meant to cleanse and rejuvenate the body turns into a religious ritual where people begrudglingly starve themselves or abstain from eating meat totally ignorant as to WHY they're doing it and assuming it has some "spiritual" meaning behind it. Anyhoo, I continue to research melanin. And I see the game they are playing with race/phenotype/melanin. We also know that there are different TYPES of Melanin. The melanin in most Caucasians and many East Asians is different than the melanin in Blacks and true Native Americans. We have "eumelanin" which is Black.....they have mostly "pheomelanin" which is red. This is why sometimes when you're looking at a picture of White people you see a red dot in their eyes in the photo. 　 　 　 Cynique Well , i always ask what do white people have to gain by abandoning the idea of different races? It is to their advantage to keep their artificial construct since, as everybody agrees, this allows them maintain white supremacy. It helps them to acknowledge race as long as they are in the majority..... But when they become a MINORITY in any nation/community then they try to erase the idea of race so as to CONFUSE the masses of the people. One of the reasons why there wasn't a major Civil Rights movement in Latin America like it was in the United States is because most of the Black people in Latino nations think they're everything BUT Black. White Latinos who control Latin America tell them they aren't Black but Cuban, Brazilian, Mexican, Columbian, ect..... They tell them we're all the same race...."Latino race"....to fool them. And because they don't see race or see themselves as Black they don't know how to explain why they are poor and being exploited by the White Brazilians, Mexicans, ect... Leonce 　 　 That aside, define who, then, is black? Is is 30% African blood? Is it 51%. Does the person with 49% African ancestry then qualify as white? 　 To me, in order to actually still be considered African/Black you would have to be atleast 3/4 African/Black or if you have a non-Black parent but you LOOK like a complete African/Black person I'd still consider you African/Black. I know that figure is kind of high, but I think it's reasonable because if you start accepting EVERYBODY with any African ancestry as Black you run the risk of watering down the entire race and replacing it with another. However this is why I refer to ETHNICITY and call our people "AfroAmericans". This terms encompasses EVERYONE of African ancestry in the Americas regardless of how much or how little African blood runs through their veins. Troy Man you are just mumbling and grumbling to yourself, but you aren't actually ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS me and others have posed to you. And you seem to be overlooking the answers to the very questions YOU asked of us. You keep talking about how stupid it is to continue to believe in different races and how science disproves it.....but without offering any real concrete evidence.

Troy Not only are the racial differences manifested PHENOTYPICALLY but also PSYCHOLOGICALLY. Different races tend to "think" or see the world differently on a bio-chemical level......which is why Black Americans and White Americans can live in the same country yet see things so much differently and practice different cultures. Like Zaji said, the racists are playing one big GAME with you. There is no scientific "consensus"..... These scientists will play up racial differences when it suits their purposes and then the erase the differences and pretend they don't exist when THAT suits their purposes. If science doesn't see race why do we read about the differnces between Black and White IQ scores? Why do we hear so much about Black women getting breast cancer as compared to White women? Race and racial differences are acknowledged in every field of science from medicine, to social issues, to politics, to anthropology. You said there is no gene for race but white anthropologists and paleontologists can determine if a bone they found belongs to an African or a Caucasian simply by the structure and mineral content. You can deny racial difference all you want or call it by another name. Call it color, class, breed, caste, ect..... But whatever you call it....the people who are now classified as White will still know who THEY are and know who YOU are and will see themselves as different and better than you. 　 Zaji Dang girl, you are absolutely right about so much, where do I start..........lol. First you are right about their being so many phenotypical difference between just Africans ALONE, even when you leave out other races. I've heard many times that Africa both linguistically and cultural is the most diverse continent on the planet. Perhaps there are TOO MANY differences and this is what made her so easy to conquer from the outside. Second, you're right about not trusting Ancestry-.-com. You never know WHO is handling the dna samples you're sending in or what they may really be used for. Dr Umar Johnson said that you send a sample of your hair or saliva to these people and next thing you know the police may be at your door claiming your DNA was found at a murder scene way on the other side of the country. The old folks who knew magic and how to work with roots KNEW the power you could have over a person if you got some of their hair or nail clippings.....don't think the scientists of today have slept on this either. They change based on something they want. And now, since their numbers might now be lower than the 10% they seem to be on the planet compared to melanin rich peoples, they must boost their numbers by pushing interracial relationships. Easiest way to do this??? Tell everyone that the scientific/biological races (and yes, it has been based on science for over 100 years) are no longer true. How convenient that this new "science" has surfaced. Just in time to save their race. I have an entire book dedicated to the various races. Written around the early 1900s, maybe late 1800s. Over 200 pages of the various races and a breakdown of various aspects of said races. They're also "training" the Asians with their massive numbers to be the new standard bearers who will continue carrying the torch of white supremacy so that it doesn't burn out. If you notice, most north east Asians practice Western civilization and morality better and more precise than even White people do....lol. I clearly see where caucasians are making stuff up and where they have truly discovered something (or most likely unlocked a cabinet in the Vatican so they can pretend they made a new discovery after reading our ancient knowledge). Yes, proper DISCERNMENT is key to getting the truth without falling victim to the lies. You have to know how to read between the lines and decode the "coded" language. Neely Fuller Jr said that racists will give you a meal that may be 90% poison and 10% nutrition, and you have to know how to pull the nutrition out and accept it while rejecting the poison. You dropped a lot of knowledge, I'm still reading. To Be Continued...... 　

Troy We, all people, MUST rely on the knowledge of others. This is the very thing that has allowed humanity to advance I didn't say we didn't have to rely on the knowledge of others. My point is BLACK PEOPLE need to make up a substantial number of those "others"; instead of constantly soley relying on the information that White people relay to us. If you look at much of the technology of the world, it's not "humanity" advancing, it's White people advancing and Black folks just going along for the ride....lol. How many Black people are actually down in South America studying the ecology of the Amazon, or building rockets to go to Mars, or spicing genes and making clones??? We let White people do it......then run to the university or go to youtube and let THEM tell US what they found. This is not only lazy, but silly. We need DIRECT KNOWLEDGE that we gain from our own expriments and reasoning that we can use to benefit ourselves instead of expecting that some balding White man with a grey pony tail and glasses will give us all the information we need. Zaji I like you too! I believe you mentioned something about being from Jamaica. I have yet to meet a Carrribean woman I DIDN'T like...lol. Cynique Objective people tend to be curious and flexible and consider all views, gravitating toward those which extensive studies and experiments have proven to be reliable and authentic. Sounds to me like THESE type of people would rather believe what other people tell them rather than what they've seen with their own two eyes....lol.

Troy Pioneer there are degrees to everything -- including marriage. People locked up in SuperMax prisons are less free than people who live in Australia. True there are degrees, but I still think that "freedom" is one of those things that are absolute. Either you're free or you're not. Perhaps you should flip it and talk about degrees of RESTRICTION rather than freedom. 　 I agree there can't be a completely free society, but you can get pretty close which is makes the trade off worth it. I agree that we can't have a completely free society, nor would I want one. I believe the fewwer unnecessary rules...the better; because it allows for one to express one's self and creativity to flourish.

Zaji Bottom line, 99% of what we know we get from methods we cannot personally confirm. This is one of the reasons that if I were to operate a school one of the subjects I would NOT teach is "history". Not only can't most things that occured prior to 150 years ago actually be proven (by human beings atleast)....but every time you turn around "new facts" are coming out about events in ancient history. Everytime you open up Time magazine you're sure to find an article where some White man with glasses has "discovered" some new interesting fact about an ancient civilization. It makes you wonder if he's making it all up. ....or if it's true, how long he's beeing sitting on and hiding this knowledge before he DECIDED to release it. Del Yes along those same lines I want to thank @Pioneer1. You're more than welcome bro. Cynique Del is ACTUALLY trying to be objective.....something you only preach about. He's trying to take emotion out of his views and look at things from a more logical way so that they aren't colored with emotion and self-interest which too often contaminates the conclusions people come to and force them to reject TRUTHS that they would ordinarily accept. Which is why i can't resist taking pot shots at Pioneer. i guess i should congratulate him on acquiring 2 new choir members for his preaching. Meanwhile, i await his next post, ever ready to disagree, - if he shows up. I KNOW you can't resist.....lol. That's what I kept trying to tell you in the other thread. You THRIVE off of the energy you get from my giving you attention, negative or positive. Now be a good girl, stop attacking people just because they agree with me, and run along- .....before I call up your 72 year old boy toy and tell him to stop "lighting your fire", lol.