Pioneer1

Troy I don't think they're trying to mislead people, I think they're TRYING to inform people. But the question I have is, exactly WHO is their audience that they're trying to reach? Given that I'm not the smartest person in the world and my ability to comprehend that article is limited....from MY perspective too much of the article is redundant and seems use graphs and statistics and multiple paragraphs to explain the same basic points over and over again. Certainly this article wasn't written for the average person to understand because it's far too complex and scientifically detailed. Which explains why it was found in a scientific publication. However the question then becomes...... Does an audience smart enough to understand this article and has a mind analytical enough to follow it all the way through really NEED to be told over and over again in great detail...as this article does....that they should be careful and not believe everything they read or hear on social media????? Another problem I have with the article is it's suggeting that all conspiracy theories are "misinformation". It lumps conspiracy NEWS, conspiracy RUMORS, and conspiracy THEORIES all in the same category as if all three terms mean the same thing. So in a sense it does seem as if they are attempting to persuade people not so much with "facts" but how they're wording certain things.

Sara Well even if you WERE sucking up to me, I don't think "sucking up" or "kissing ass" is necessarily a bad thing....lol. I wouldn't mind "sucking up" to Cynique, you, or Troy....if I thought I could get something of value out of it like money or massive promoting or a good position in some firm. Part of thinking outside of the box is putting me ego and pride to the side when it comes to seeking to achieve certain objectives. I could have been in a cussing match with somebody last night and wouldn't think twice about coming to them the next morning apologizing and trying to make up with them if they hold the key to my success for a given goal. CD Ok, I see what you're saying now....... But again, I'm not accusing Black actresses who play loud obnoxious ghetto types of CREATING the perception.....I'm accusing them of PERPETUATING it. They didn't start the fire but they're keeping it going. Similar to how the people alive today didn't start America's economic system. It was started centuries ago, but people today are playing their respective roles in keeping it rolling along. That's how the perceptions of Black inferiority work. Black people who have accepted this belief and their roles in it keep it going. Ofcourse the mode or stereotype of the vulgar obnoxious Black woman who tended not to be as "gentle" or "refined" as the White woman has existed for decades....centuries probably. But actresses like Leslie come along and accept roles that keep this negative perception going; usually with an excuse of trying to "make a living" or "get their foot in the door". Black actors and actresses in Hollywood tend not to be as versatile as their White counterparts and are more likely to be TYPECASTED into certain roles that the public expects to see them in because of their phenotype. Vighn Rhames is a good example of what I'm talking about. You'll never see that brother play a professor or doctor because the "public" doesn't expect a Black man who looks like that to be intelligent enough to pass it off. As Cynique said, we (or I rather) have beat up on Leslie enough.....no need to stomp her out. But we shouldn't underestimate the power and influence a woman who has weekly role on a major network like NBC has over: 1. Young Black females who naturally absorb images they see of other Black females in the media and get their cues on how to behave from them. 2. White people who religiously watch SNL and who may already have ideas of Black dysfunctionality raging in their minds and now the skits being perform....while not having INITIATED those racist ideas....certainly fuels them.

Cynique "You seem incapable of doing anything other than suckin up to Pioneer, pathetically seeking him as an ally. LMAO" Lol....why don't you give her some competition! I personally don't have a problem with the concept of a Black "elite" as long as it's not based on superficial things like complexion and religious affiliation. I like the idea that like everyone else, we can also have nobility and a system of heirarchy that demands high achievement, high social standards, and other positive attributes. to aspire to. I just don't like how the traditional Black elite society have traditionally based their success on nearness to Whites in terms of behavior and even looks. But we should have our own standards, traditions of success, and systems that are unique to us. 　 CD I'm not sure I understand your point clearly enough, can you restate it differently or perhaps make it more simplitic? . Sara "They have NO power to effect changes in the lives of others, and only personal power to effect the course of their own.... unlike white "Elites." You're right. With the exception of actual BUSINESS OWNERS, most of the Black elite I've met have very little real power. They are well educated and have money, but outside of property few have real wealth or power/authority to change things either on their jobs or in society in general. They tend to have TITLES....but no authority behind the title. Most Black people of high positions don't even have the power to keep their own children out of trouble or provide jobs for them inside the company or government in which they operate. For example, a Black fire chief can't get his sons in the fire department or on the police department like most White chiefs or other White officials can and have traditionally done. Hell, he can barely keep HIS OWN job and he's nervous as hell that if he farts too loud he'll be forced to resign from it! Even most Black business owners who have power inside their own businesses have very little power in the actual INDUSTRY their businesses operate in. The Black man who owns his own barber shop or the Black woman who owns her own beauty salon STILL has to go to the Korean beauty supply store for their equipment !

Much respect to Harry, This rant isn't directed toward him but it's more of a statement in general...... I haven't read anywhere in the Bible that say what color Adam was, however I will say that Black people spend too much time focusing on the Bible and trying to make the characters Black...of color...or line up with themselves and their condition. Go to the average ghetto and ask the young people what color Jesus is and over 75% of them will probably say "Black". But guess what? They're STILL in the ghetto even with that knowledge. Whether Adam, Moses, or Jesus was Black, White, or Yellow doesn't seem to be helping our condition today in 2016. No matter what color Adam or Jesus WAS or IS....if you are being beaten by a police officer or robbed by a thug and you call on him....if he doesn't help you what difference did it make? White folks went from painting Jesus and the other characters of the Bible White with European features to for the most part not even believing in them AT ALL today.....yet they're still ruling much of the world. We need to focus on the the present and the future and what is practical to improve our condition.

We can walk and chew gum at the same time. Black people can criticize the unjust treatment received by White police officers WHILE condemning the violence that occurs within their own communities. Much like a nation can fight a war with another nation and at the same time fight crime within it's own borders. It's not necessarily a matter of focusing on one or the other, you can focus on both.

What I like to do when I'm reading ANYTHING on-line or anywhere else is ask myself, "Who benefits?" Who benefits from this information being put out? What type of desired effect does whoever putting this information out want to achieve? We should also talk about the difference between MISinformation and DISinformation. Misinformation is just incorrect information. But disinformation is specifically designed to mislead people by putting out lies specifically designed to influence people or an outcome but wrapped up mostly in facts. Kind of like a Trojan Horse.

LOL @ the end of that other thread. Man...I LOVE women. Cynique I concur with your observations as best I can given my age and experience. Like most cities with large Black populations, Detroit had a strong Black Elite. But as society started pushing for more integration and wealthy Blacks started moving out to mingle with White folks (who often had less wealth and even less class), these societies and organizations became less relevant. My family wasn't very highly educated, we were more working class and lived in a working class neighborhood, but my father had a lot of friends in the Black clergy. Going over their homes was like visiting royalty. Seeing how their wives would handle silverware (real silver) with white gloves. Seeing paintings and sculptures decorating the house and China cabinets and funny rugs...lol. Children talking about how their parents "laid out" their clothes for school and then laid out another set for playing or going to "communion" because they were Catholic or Lutheran where as most of the children I grew up with were Baptist or Methodist. Negroes weren't born Catholic but converted just to be "different" from the other Black folk. Boys who had never been in a fist fight....lol. These kids were Black but I had less in common with them than some of the White kids I knew growing up. A common belief is that the Black elite were all mixed or very light skinned, but I saw quite a few dark skinned people in upper class Black neighborhoods; but they almost always have light skinned wives. Another thing that I found interesting as I got older was that although most of these men had light skinned wives, most had dark skinned mistresses....lol. Or there first wife was dark skinned but they ended up divorcing them and their second wife was very light. CD It's not my belief that Leslie is creating a NEW generation of loud and foul mouthed women any more than gangsta rap is creating a NEW generation of criminals. Ofcourse these things already existed in the Black community as it has in EVERY community since time immemorial. But movies like Precious, Menace 2 Society, obnoxious Black comedians, and gangsta rap are used to tap into that negative elements that already exists and PROMOTE it in the Black community and PROLONG it's negative effects in order to cause social instability. When you see Black men constantly engaging in criminal and shiftless behavior or Black women being obnoxious and shameful, t not only kills the respect others have for you... It kills the respect and regard our people have for themselves. . What woman wants a man she has been led to believe is a criminal? What man wants a loud mouth woman with a foul attitude for a wife? We no longer want to work and live around eachother and seek to get away from eachother and find comfort around those we deem more appealing. And this is how many Black communities fall apart. Those with ambition and a desire to improve themselves.....leave. Think of the culture of a people like the culture of bacteria in a glass of milk. That glass of milk contains dozens of types of bacteria....some good....some bad. ALL the bacteria may be present, but depending on which type of bacteria is PROMOTED....it can make the difference between that glass of milk being fresh and drinkable, spoiled, turn into cheese, or turn into yogurt. It's the same with any community. All communities have all types of people in them, but depending on which element you decide to promote you can turn that community into a stable environment where people handle their problems indoors....or a violent ghetto where everybody is out in the street cussing and fighting while a few of the good people are hiding inside waiting on the first opportunity to move out. The media seems to like promoting the negative "bacteria" in our community to create social instability and economic stagnation.

Sara So, Separatism, Black Nationalism, Afrocentricism. What are you advocating? Thank you, I appreciate that you can disagree with me but still respect my position and view me in a positive light over all. That is a very complex question because I'm seeing the first hand results of all 3 positions (actually more) being played out in the streets of Detroit in a way I hadn't seen in the past. I'm seeing things today being played out that I only read about sitting up as a teenager in the Shrine of Black Madonna book store. I read about the various Black political philosophies of the 60s and 70s but now I'm actually seeing them and the various results they're having on the thinking of the people in different communities and it's giving me a better idea of what works, what doesn't work, and what's actually self destructive. So what am I advocating? Lol.....right now I'm advocating that you start another thread with this topic so we can delve into more deeply because I don't want to further jack Troy's thread with my responses to it. Cynique I'm glad you noticed how erratic and "wild" Leslie behaves. Like Sara said....she's not funny at all to me. Most of her behavior is stereotypical and much of it is offensive and embarassing. 　 　 CD You don't come around this neighborhood (Cynique's Corner) much, I'm glad to keep you on the porch for a while....lol. Sure African women are loud and jovial. I found out not to long ago that most ASIANS tend to be loud and a fiesty in their own cultures when they feel White people aren't looking. And we know most Hispanics are as loud if not louder than Blacks Infact, MOST cultures period are loud and flamboyant when compare to the rather reserved and restrained northern European culture that dominates the United States. It's not the loudness and flamboyancy that's the issue, it's the negativity and inappropriate behavior attached to it that I have a problem with like the cussing and violent talk which you intuitively knew and referred to yourself. Look...... I support the right for women and men to behave as they wish as long as they don't hurt anyone else, even if that behavior is abnormal and doesn't fit with their sexual nature. Which is why I don't bash homosexuality or cross dressing anymore......it's their right as human beings to do that as far as I'm concerned. However, if you ask me is it the BEST behavior or is it behavior that should be PROMOTED and I'd have to say NO. I'd rather promote heterosexual behavior where the gender roles are in line with the sex. And it's the same with Leslie. I don't mind her being loud and outspoken and I don't mind her cussing a little like Monique. But guess what? Monique is still a lady...a woman. Her femininity has NEVER been questioned and she's probably never been called a gorilla or ape. She LOOKS like a woman and acts like one, and even those she may be a big girl...fat even....she's still made like a woman and her femininity isn't in question. With Leslie....she's made big and bulky like a man and she behaves on the hard masculine side and this is the difference between the two. I've been all over the United States, Canada, and parts of Europe and had an opportunity to see hundreds if not thousands of African women, and I've never seen ONE who LOOK AND ACT like Leslie Jones. They may be her complexion, and may have SOME of her facial features....but most aren't made in the shape she's made NOR will you find them behaving like she does. Just look at how she sat in the interview with her legs all open and on the edge of the chair like a dude....how many women do you know outside of the ghetto that sit like that???? 　 Isn't it time to stop worrying about what everybody else thinks and celebrate and focus on us? When Black people are able to provide full employment for themselves and don't have to rely on Whites and others for the majority of their income....THEN we can celebrate and stop worrying about what other people think of us. Until then, when Black actors like Leslie come on playing a crappy racist manager or Black people play theives and violent buffoons characters I have to worry about those images having an impact on the White managers and employers who refuse to hire Black people with those images as an excuse. When Black people provide security and law enforcement in their own communities and no long rely on a majority White police force to keep order and safety for our children....THEN we can celebrate and stop worrying about what other people think of us. Until then, when Black rappers brag about selling dope and killing people or play dope dealer roles exclusively I have to worry about how many White racist police officers are using that as an excuse to lable Black males as "animals" and dregs on society who they want to exterminate. When there are enough Black doctors, nurses, and hospitals to provide care for our people.....THEN we can celebrate and stop worrying about what others think of us. Until then, I have to worry and hope that the White, Asian, and Indian doctors and nurse who are working on Black patients have an open mind and don't believe that Black people are subhuman and not really important enough to keep healthy or alive based on the crap they see in the media or what they've been told growing up. In other words, when we live in our own society and are fully supporting ourselves and don't have to rely on anyone else....THEN we can stop worrying about what others think of us. Until then, we have to deal with this....... Those police officers said that Black people were prone to violence and USED that excuse as a justification for slinging our sister around like a rag doll. The characters that Leslie Jones plays FEEDS INTO those racist beliefs of the aggressive Black woman. I'm sure there are no stats on it, but I have to wonder how many Black women.....older Black women...have been hurt or killed by police officers who may have seen those "Ma'dea" Tyler Perry movies where he puts on a wig and dress and plays a crazy wild and hyper aggressive old Black woman who loves violence? Thanx to Tyler Perry, an entire generation has been influenced to lose respect and sensitivity to older Black women. They look at old White women and they see a sweet little old grandma who needs a hug. They look at old Black women and they see some feisty old cussing beast who needs to be man-handled because that's the only thing she understands. I'm not trying to take away Leslie's right to make a living or express herself, I'm just saying she and other Black comedians should be more aware of the impact their characters have on the greater community.....especially in this volatile political and social climate. Leslie Jones isn't the first Black woman to make SNL's cast BTW....there have been others. Actually, there's another sister on there right now who isn't getting much attention.

It appears that our dear father, healer, and teacher the honorable Dr. Sebi has made his transition. I hope that God's peace and blessings be upon this great man for the good that he has done and the knowledge that he has brought to our community. Dr Sebi

Lelie has a pretty smile and a nice set of teeth. There! No one can say I didn't say ANYTHING nice about our sister...lol. 　 　 CD We shouldn't confuse legality with ethics. Sure she has a right to get on television and clown and coon and fullfill every negative stereotype that White America has used to demean Black women since slavery..... But is it ethical? Is it right? You mean to tell me that she's allowed to disgrace her own people just to pay the bills? That's almost like saying since I don't pay the Bird Mayn's bills I have no right to criticize him selling dope in the community. Where does it end for those who promote non-productive and even self destructive behavior to our young people? Even in that interview where she is supposedly being "herself"....look how she's sitting and carrying herself. And then look at how most of the other women who come on talk shows sit and behave. Tell me if you DON'T notice a difference. Listen to how she said her friend called her a "bitch" while encouraging her. Black women didn't call eachother bitches as a term of endearment UNTIL one or two comediennes started saying it back in the 90s and now it's in style for Black women to just disrepect eachother....that's the influence people like her have. Now granted Black women in America and other women from around the world may come from different circumstances, but as one who was in the military and probably saw the effects that war and an already abusive culture....I seriously doubt that YOU would deny that WHATEVER circumstances Black women in the United States come from they probably pale in comparison to what women coming from in the Middle East or other parts of Asia have been through. Except for a psychiatric (chemical) explaination such as the water and the foods eat having some sort of chemical effect on their behavior....there is no reason for so many of our Black girls in the United States to maintain such loud, boisterous, and masculine (fighting, cussing, violent outbursts) dispositions except them learning it from people like Leslie. African women who come to America are Blacker than we are with no admixture but aren't found behaving in that manner. Something is going on with many of our women and Black actresses like Leslie are being used to "normalize" it and make it seem as if it's just normal for "a sista" to be loud and obnoxious. I observed this as far back as the 90s with the Spice Girls....the lone Black member of the group Melanie B was known as "Scary Spice". She took on the role as the "bad girl" or the evil one with the tough attitude. Just like there's a history of trying to effeminize and emasculate Black men in the West... There's year of history of trying to masculinize Black women in order to disrupt the natural harmony of our family and community life in the West. This is all the more reason that I say we as a people need STANDARDS. When you have standards and clearly defined social rules, then it makes unacceptable behavior easier to point out and correct and it also makes it harder for those form outside the community to manipulate our youth. Leslie is more than just a sista trying to catch a break. Saturday Night Live has for years been used as a tool of social engineering which is why so many politicians routinely pop up on the show as guests. She is just a pawn in a larger game of influencing negative and counter-productive behavior in the society by influencing Black girls to act other than themselves. This causes anger and chaos in the community because too many Black girls grow up trying to act agressive and confrontational like men and then can't understand why so many Black men leave them and seek women OUTISDE of the race who were raised to be comfortable in their femininity. I'm sure you've seen this frustration of young Black females in some of the students you teach.

Fred Sanford said................. "I'm gonna be one 'til I'm a dead old man!"

Sara I don't think we disagree. I think we're just placing our individual emphasis on different aspects of the solution. However I will say that encouraging our people to get more college education is like encouraging people to put more icing/frosting on the plate but there's no cake to go under it. Higher education was meant to refine and expand upon a foundation that already exists; but Black people in America barely have a foundation in social and civil matters with which to BUILD that higher education up on. How you gonna go to school to be a doctor when you haven't even mastered the basics of what diet is best for Black people? Or your administering medicine that not only doesn't work for your people but may make them worse? How you gonna be an engineer and help others build tall sky scrapers downtown when YOUR neighborhood is falling apart and you can't even build a house from the ground up? You have a doctorate in bio-engineering and want to run off and work for Monsanto, but don't even own land and if you did don't have sense enough to farm it to feed yourself and your family. See what I mean? There's a BASE that needs to be focused on first before we push our children off to help another man build up HIS world. 　 Troy I think social media is actually making people socially weaker....more shy and self-centered in their own little world. When I was a teenager, if me or my boys wanted to meet girls we met them on the bus, in the mall, at school, on the street, around the block, anywhere. Now, a lot of people have gotten so shy and self centered that they are afraid to start a conversation with the person sitting next to them. I can't remember when I last saw a young man try to strike up a conversation with a female out of the blue. If you see it, it's usually a man over 40. It's hard to get next to them today because even when they're alone, as soon as these girls sit down by themselves they whip out their celly and start texting and their eyes light up. The older generation of Black men used to tell us they felt sorry for us and I didn't understand what they meant, but now I feel sorry for the younger generation of Black men coming up. This "virtual world" of social media is in my opinion disrupting the natural order of things and giving people false courage on-line while making them more cowardly when it comes to social situations in real life. Those same people attacking Leslie on social media probably would NEVER say those things to her face to face. 　 　 Mr Burns Again, the crux of my argument is NOT how Leslie looks but how she behaves. It really doesn't matter than she is from Memphis because you'll find her type all over America. Big, loud, brash, shameless women who are angry because society in general doesn't accept them with their unnatural behavior. But let them tell it, THEY aren't the problem. They'll claim this society can't accept a "strong Black woman". When I lived in New Orleans I heard them say the same thing about New Orleans women, I grew up hearing the same thing about Detroit women, in Atlanta they say them "Georgia Peaches" will cut you to the bone if get out of line, the same in Chicago, Los Angeles, ect....... The fact is, all over the United States too many Black women in urban areas have gotten a reputation for being loud and vulgar and actresses like Leslie helps to perpetuate that image whether she's like that in REAL LIFE or not. We should be ASHAMED of that image, not glorify it or try to defend it as some sort of "defense". You say Leslie's brash and masculine behavior is a defense mechanism for men acting shitty and disrespectful? Look at places like Pakistan and Iraq where the women are thoroughly oppressed and abused by men. These are environments where girls grow up being beaten, abused, killed, see their entire families killed in front of them. They've experieced and observed extreme trauma far beyond anything we have imagined in the inner cities of the United States yet when they come to America how many of them do you see acting like Leslie Jones? How many do you see fighting eachother in the street, or walking up and down the street cussing and threating people to fights or getting up in peoples faces wobbling their heads and bucking their eyes? You probably have NEVER seen any of these women do this. They, like Asian, African and other women come right over and fit in with other NORMAL women who carry themselves like ladies. They keep their voices mild and maintain a shyness about them. If growing up in a violent and sexist environment makes women violent and obnoxious, why aren't THOSE women behaving like some of the women you see in our uban communities? I say it's the opposite. I say because so many Black men HAVEN'T checked their daughters and sisters for their loud and obnoxious...un-lady like.....behavior, it's actually encouraged more of it. It appears that the Black community has lost much of it's "standards" of behavior and what it will tolerate. People are using the fact that Black people shouldn't imitate White people or hold their standards up as ideal...which is legitimate because we need to be ourselves.....as an excuse not to have ANY standards at all and just allow our women and men to behave any kind of way and accept it. No, I don't expect Black or Asian or Latina women to LOOK or ACT like White women, but I do expect them to look and act like WOMEN and stop using excuses for such demeaning and obnoxious...and yes MASCULINE (loud, aggressive, boisterous, in your face, confrontational, cussing, ect...) behavior. Finally, the only reason we're talking about women is because this THREAD is about Leslie. But best believe the Black man is in worse shape and is more deserving of criticism than the Black woman. But let us not make the mistake that many in the Black consciousness community do of believing that the Black woman is somehow santimonious and beyond reproach. No one is above criticism.

Be careful Troy..... That sounded like some sort of sexual proposition, to me.

What I find interesting is how Trump and many of his supporters are talking of the elections being "rigged". I really find it intersting because it's coming from Republicans who essentially rigged the 2000 election while Black people and the Democrat Party failed to really take them to task on it. How did we get to a point in this nation to where the perpetrators are playing the victims, while the real victims are silent? If you hear the term "conspiracy theorist" today, chances are it's not describing a Black man in a dashiki hanging out at the local barbershop telling you what "they" are trying to do to you.....bure more likely a prominent Republican Senator or mainstream talk show host. The issue of election fraud and corruption in the system that Blacks and Democrats in general SHOULD be pointing out and raising sand over but won't because they don't want to look "silly"....are now being used by right-wing Republicans as a way to keep the media and everyone else on the defensive. If you practice FAIRNESS....they'll call foul and accuse you of corruption and bias.

Troy & Cynique There are millions of dumb people out there PERIOD, who don't have enough intelligence to properly discern the information they're taking in. Those who run the media KNOW this and constantly take advantage of it. Why do you think smoking cigarettes is so popular? The first time people try cigarettes they start coughing and gagging....they hate it. But the media has made it seem like the "cool" or "rebel" thing to do and most smokers were dumb enough to fall for it. Or dumb enough to let peer pressure force them into doing something they personally disliked. And they to keep doing it until they are physiologically addicted. Speaking of peer pressure, don't underestimate the mob mentality. A lot of people who are ordinarily smart will still TRY to play stupid just to fit in with their friends who are less intelligent but they still hold in high regard. I've seen plenty of smart people act stupid thinking it was "cool". But more to this subject...... One of the biggest problems I've found among very smart people in general whether they're highly educated or just gifted in a lot of mother-wit is they continue to make the mistake in assuming that everyone is as smart as they are or can pick up on things as easily as them. If I go before a city council or a county or state board....most of these bodies are made up of lawyers or highly educated professionals. I constantly remind them that when they sit around discussing various laws to make....be sure to make them simple enough so that those on the lower end of average intelligence can easily understand them. Just because you and those you hang around think a certain way or would never fall for something, doesn't mean others will be able to think so clearly. Growing up, it was amazing to see how easily so many slow and half-crazy Black people willingly allowed themselves to be taken advantage of for entertainment purposes by White people whether they were teachers at school or at work. They played class clown for the teachers amusement or they'd come to work telling all types of stories about how they lived in the 'hood and ghetto life and tell their White co-workers who would look at them and smirk then talk about how stupid they were when they were gone. They saw little shame in their stupidity. The only people embarrassed were the other more intelligent Black people. Republicans KNOW how dumb the average American is and they constantly play on their stupidity with irrational lies and emotionalism. Democrats, liberals, and just thinking people in general stand around scratching their heads as to why so many people still support them against their very own interests.......because they make the mistake of believing everyone has the power to think for themselves. Not to divert the thread with a long rant but to answer your question Cynique, I don't frequent social media much. I only go on facebook when I have to such as promoting an event or being interviewed, and I don't do twitter at all. It's not so much of a protest, I just don't find it interesting. I don't see the point in it. I see the point in using drugs, going to prostitutes, gambling, overeating ect.....lol. They may be vices, but atleast they provide physical pleasure. What do you get out of posting all of your pictures on facebook and going back and forth with people over foolishness. Websites like THIS I love because I can have intelligent exchanges with people at my pleasure. But Instagram????? Twitter??? 　 Sara When I made my statement about a lot of people not liking my position concerning Black people and academia, that thread you refered to was actually the furthest thing from my mind. I was speaking from years of experience dealing with Black people who mistakenly believe that "education" (specifically formal academic education) will solve all of our problems. Whether it will or not is not the point, the point is MOST people will not be able to get a college education for one reason or another anyway, so that shouldn't be the goal or some standard of "normal". It's called HIGHER education for a reason....because most people shouldn't be able to attain it. As for Black people being workers and peasants without higher education. I live in southeast Michigan where there are close to a million people of Middle Eastern descent. The vast majority of those men.....DO NOT have a college education. Infact, many of them came to America without the equivalent of a high school diploma, and many of the boys who are born and raised IN the United States end up getting kicked out of school for disciplinary problems. .....yet they own more businesses per capita than Whites, Blacks, and Latinos put together. They also own more businesses per capita than Asians, most of whom are highly educated. They make BIG MONEY....why? Because they have their OWN businesses with their OWN networks. They aren't worried about being peasants, serfs, and slaves in another man's kingdom because they are too busy building their OWN. When they DO go to school, it's not to work in a White institution but to help another Arab/Chaldean institution that needs their skill. If more Black people would focus on skilled trades, owning their own businesses, and even using the higher education they DO receive to build up their OWN communities instead of educating themselves in order to get a better position in somebody else's.....we would make far more progress.

Cynique Yes, I really believe that many Black people DON'T have enough sense to know when someone is subliminally making fun of them and being psychologically racist....so it must be pointed out. They must be educated on it or they will continue to be taken advantage of. Some people don't like it when I say that most Black people either can not or will not achieve college degrees so we should focus more on skilled trades and small businesses. But I believe it's the truth either it sounds sweet to the ears or not. AfroAmericans are in a vulnerable condition in this nation and we can't afford to assume As far as the stereotypical roles of Black women..... A) Sure there are a lot of attractive Black women in Hollywood, but like I said they aren't usually paired WITH White women. Most White women have enough pride and sense not to let herself be portrayed as inferior by being paired next to a better looking Black woman. But many Black women see no shame in acting right next to a White woman who may be considered more attractive.....they feel no embarassment by it because so many have been taught to see themselves in the inferior role anyway. The difference between the stereotypical roles that White and most Latina women play and those Black women play is the "dumb blonde" and "Latina spit-fire" roles still grant the White and Latina woman her sense of womanhood and femininity. Those roles still make them look "cute" and lady like....where as the ghetto tramp and hoodrat roles so many of our sisters play takes away their femininity and makes them look like freakish "he/shes" who's very gender is questionable. Just like Hollywood has a history of raising questions about Black men's manhood, they tend to raise the same questions about the Black woman's womanhood. And again, many of our people....I believe...do not have enough psychoanalytical knowledge to pick up on this, so it MUST be pointed out.

Cynique The Unted States has been divided for a long long time. The only difference today is thanks to Trump a lot of Black and Brown people are waking up to that reality. I'm glad Trump is saying what he's saying because for nearly 30 years Mexicans and Arabs have routinely voted against their own interests and supported the Republican party believing in their deceptive moral rhetoric. Now that the TRUTH is coming out about what Republicans really stand for and believe, Mexicans and Arabs are waking up cranky as hell. They're finally starting to feel that maybe Black people may have a point to all the "complaining" we do.

You all thought it was funny but I actually didn't find the skit funny in the least. I sort of took offense to it's demoralizing portrayl of urban Black women. The image Leslie seems to be an expert at potraying. Which is probably why she was hired by SNL in the first place. My little analysis of the skit was...... Here you got a White man who plays an "intelligent well spoken man" but has to pretend to talk like an uncouth ghetto Black woman (althought it's not actually called that)...just to keep his job. I was just waiting and waiting....because I knew it was coming....when Leslie's character was going to utter something racist just to give the audience the impression that urban Black people are not only rude and ghetto but racist against Whites...therefore justifying the racism that is practiced against them in REAL LIFE. And like clockwork-right at the end she has to mention his race and call him a "White so-n-so". Why did the writers feel the need to inject race into this skit which would have been just as "funny" without any racial remarks? And why did they choose...as SNL USUALLY DOES...to make the Black person the racist?? On top of the racial and cultural stereotypes, Leslie is portrayed as a verbally abusing boss who doesn't know how to speak to her employees, again.....which will subconciously justify the racist and unreasonable behavior of some White managers toward THEIR Black employees in REAL LIFE. People must understand that Leslie's behavior acts like a REVERSE catharsis, sort of like the original Birth of a Nation movie. Instead of giving racists an outlet for thier own racism by seeing it on television, it actually acts as a JUSTIFICATION by providing made up false scenarios that they can subconsciously point to and say, "Well look...they're rude, ghetto, and even racist themselves so I'm just given them a taste of their own medicine!". CD This has nothing to do with Leslie's skin color. There are women much darker than her....like Naomi Campbell and Lauryn Hill....who are very beautiful. 　 Also, I'm not the best looking brother in the world myself so I'm not beating up on Leslie because of the way she LOOKS. (although I must say that one of the tricks I've observed in the media is that many Whites love to contrast themselves with Black people in the way of taking an attractive White woman and featuring them in the same movie with an unattractive Black woman; or taking a wealthy intelligent White man and pair him with a broke ass idiotic Black man to give the audience an impression of White superiority) It's all about Leslies loud and manish behavior that makes her such a turn off. No, she's not the most attractive person....but she's not deformed or hideous either. If she'd just doll herself up and act like a lady both on and off camera, she wouldn't have so many problems. 　 　 Grace Jones ???? Come on brother....that woman is scary!

Lol....actually, Michael Moore thinks Trump will get in! He knows how misinformed and easily manipulated so many of the voters are and doesn't have a lot of confidence in them making the right decision. Being from Michigan, I'm sure he...like me...remembers the Reagan Democrats. Unionized and traditionally Democrat factory workers who deliberately voted for Ronald Reagan because they believed that he was going to protect them from "evil Communists". I think President Obama said something very powerful in his speech that if the Democrats really want to capture the "middle class" and White working class voters they'll continue to drill the point over and over again. He said that there is no need to MAKE America great.....America is ALREADY a great nation. All this time I've heard the Trump campaing use the term "Make America great again" and it wasn't until listening to the President's speech that I realize the irony in so many conservitive Republicans who claim America is the greatest nation on Earth going around basically insinuating that America isn't great anymore and has to be MADE great again.

Troy I understand your position clearly. I already recognize that there is more to making a woman appealing than just her looks. Many people think Serena Williams looks better than her sister Venus (I don't) but when it comes to cuffing her up and making her "wifey".....I and most of the brothers I know would take Venus in a heart beat OVER Serena because of her milder and a more shy personality which most find very feminine and more agreeable. But your point about personality is a MOOT one in this case because we KNOW what Leslie's personality is like...and it's not sweet. If you notice, Leslie's ATTITUDE....not her looks....have been the main focal point of my criticizm of her. So there is no need for hypotheticals and "what if's" in this case because I have enough facts to come to a sound conclusion regarding her over-all attractiveness IN MY OPINION. Add to that the fact that she routinely disgraces the Black community in general and Black women in particular on a weely basis with her obnoxious and almost hyper-masculine behavior broadcasting and re-enforcing negative stereotypes that so many around the world have about AfroAmerican women...... 　 ....and I'd say she must be auditioning for "Queen Coon of the Year" to the best of her abilities.

One of the things I noticed is that while she is beating and yelling at her daughter for putting revealing pictures of herself on-line.......SHE TOO is dressed in booty-shorts showing all of her legs and thighs. Her shorts are skimpier than her daughters! Children learn their roles in life by WATCHING adults, not necessarily listening to them. If she grows up watching her mother put on skimpy and sexy clothes to get attention, she's learning that she too should also do this to achieve the same effect. So the mother is angry at her daughter for showing her body on the internet, but SHE makes a video featuring herself in skimpy little shorts beating her daughter and puts that video on facebook....twisted logic. Like Juvenile said....she got it from her mamma.

Can you prove that Black Americans are descendants of Israel? And what about the other Africans on the continent.....are they also Hebrews or Israelites? According to the Bible the word "Israel" means "he who fights with God" after Jacob wrestle with an angel. Why would you want to claim descent from one who tries to fight with God or His angels?

Troy Damn....lol. That's a lot of hypotheticals. That's like asking, If you had a choice between being a slave who was well fed, well clothed, had the kindest master in the world, who never harmed you --or being a free man who was broke, hungry, living in the woods, and constantly on the run from slave traders who were trying to enslave you........which would you choose, slavery or freedom? Even in the hypothetical scenario you laid out above between the two women, it would be hard for me to choose Leslie because you neglected to include the gender qualifiers of beauty and femininity and they are the main traits that make a woman attractive to the opposite sex. Femininity and beauty go a long way. Even with the description you gave, to me Lupita looks more beautiful and more feminine and those particular traits COMPEL me to incline toward her over a more masculine and domineering Leslie despite her intellectual and social graces. The sexual aspect aside, I have plenty of MALE associates who are brilliant, know how to make money, and are great conversationalists to kick it with.....but I'm not trying to get with them. Because I'm not attracted to masculinity. Again, it's not JUST the way Leslie looks that I find unattractive...though she's not the best looking sista in the world. But I probably could even get past that IF she had a nice mild feminine attitude instead of being so "manish" and obnoxious as if she can FORCE people into accepting her as attractive. I want to feel sorry for her and what she's been going through, but part of me says when a woman carries herself in such a pushy and negatively stereotypical way....she needs to have a little sense cyber slapped into her. I just wish it was done by other Black women instead of racist White trolls who are just using this as an excuse to cloak their racism.

Thanx Sara!

Although it would be nice to have a woman president, initially I hadn't planned to vote for either one of them based on principle. But now it appears that unless Hillary wins by a landslide in November, we may just see a repeat of the 2000 fiasco where all types of games were being played with ballots and at polling stations. If Trump comes anywhere near 45% or even 40% of the actual vote, these Republican Governors and other operatives at the state and local level will do their damnedest to manipulate the results and try to get their guy in. Perhaps for the first time in a long time literally ALL votes will count in this one to make sure the victory is clear and indisputable.