Chevdove

@Mel Hopkins Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! "The one thing I do appreciate about scriptures, is it survived (although not without its edits) the dark ages - where for some reason we dumbed down... If “Mary” did have a virgin birth it was most likely a female... " Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! That is one of the most amazing aspects of this phenomenon to me, in that a female can become impregnated and produce a male offspring!--And I thought I presented enough references about this capability that some animals have when come types of asexual reproduction the 'GAMETOPHYTE' can produce either a sperm or egg cell and then if so, it becomes the HORMONES that takes it from this point. Some people have a hard time understanding that the hormones from the male organs is what causes the male body to have a distinction. So, in terms of a human female, her male offspring would probably look just like her until the stage of puberty kicks in. "If “Mary” did have a virgin birth it was most likely a female... and then made male for the convenience of patriarchy... kind like Asherah, the Shekinah , God’s wife was removed from scriptures (smh)" Yes, because IMO, it is impossible for some to believe that females are just as important and equal even in this realm! It is recorded that after a process of time AbraHam told Sarah, 'whatever you say--goes' and he did not even second guess her decision because he considered her as his equal. So, IMO, the PARTHENOGENESIS REPRODUCTION that Mary experienced in that she gave birth to A MALEFACTOR would be our connection to both a male and female 'Being' origin.

@Troy You gotta be kidding!!! Nevertheless, I deserve that rebuttal on Albert Einstein!--Man!--However, he absolutely contradicted himself in respect of my reference and your reference!!! But it doesn't surprise me, that a 'European Jew' would have problems with the contents of the Bible that correlates so much rhetoric in reference to the Black African presence. Yes, I thought I express clearly the scientific concept of theory in relation to this PARTHANOGENESIS ASEXUAL REPRODUCTION [ie virgin birth] that was also recorded about 700 years prior to the Roman Empire times by the prophet and author ISAIAH. They wrote about it 'going to happen' because it is a strange phenomena to occur for humans. But, in regards to the MODERN HUMAN being the highest form of reproduction on this planet, today, it would seem to me that if the animals like the KOMODO DRAGON do this switching between Asexual Reproduction and then Sexuality, then certainly the human body, at one point should have been able to do this or have that capability that Jesus spoke about in ST. MATTHEW CHAPTER 22. Nevertheless, I already read some of the comments after yours, and I am happy! LOL!

Sorry!--I wrote, LIKE, a book-- LOL! But anyway, you may or may not believe in what I write, but ----- HERE GOES . . . When it comes to RELIGION, I believe that some of the ancient religions are based on SCIENCE and without this basis, then the people are NOT following something concrete. If the book publications in the Bible cannot be marked scientifically in any manner, then I think it would be ridiculous to give any of the contents in the Bible credibility. Therefore, for me, the Bible must be based on Science in order to understand truth and any semblance of how religions were observed and practiced. In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah came Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon unto Jerusalem, and besieged it. … [3] And the king spake unto Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring certain of the children of Israel, and of the king's seed, and of the princes; [4] Children in whom was no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, … DANIEL 1: 1-4. Also, when it comes to science and scientific concepts, not all of it can be proven facts because of the time issue when it comes to the human lifespan today. So some SCIENTIFIC CONCEPTS are still THEORY [a thesis based on a set of scientific facts that can be measured] that have not been confirmed yet, still though, it would be SCIENCE. So when it comes to some of the questions that you pose, THAT would be the case. Furthermore, some Scientific concepts are completely confirmed but it may be that I or you or certain people just may not understand. Just because we or ‘you’ may not understand certain aspects of ancient publications in books compiled in what we know as ‘the Bible’ does not mean that it is not science for the mere fact that many scientific concepts today are not understood by many people unless they go to college and study a discipline under someone more learned than they are on certain subjects. For example, just because I don’t understand how to construct an airplane doesn’t mean that I don’t believe in them, however, I believe in them because of certain facts that are tangible, and there are credible reports about them. So with the Scientific Aspect of the Bible, it does come down to ones’ belief and hopefully due to ones’ OWN INDIVIDUAL RESEARCH and inquiry and by believing in credible, measurable and well documented accounts. That’s the best way I can explain for now, how Science and the Bible correlate. So although, It’s not my favorite approach to put a references that are from the Bible, I will do a little because of your questions, and also site some secular references briefly: [1] THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION Part of this ‘Scientific concept’ is based on references and topics that I have already touched upon in other context. Although the Pre-Modern HOMINIDS are an expression of A MUTATION, however, this sort of correlates to what the ancient scriptures are referencing in terms of the Virgin Mary becoming Impregnated without sexual intercourse from a man. This Scientific concept can only be a theory because today, it has not been repeatable, therefore we are not able to measure it or equate it to any other human. But it was written in prophecy long before it happened in the BOOK OF ISAIAH. He wrote that a virgin shall conceive. And then it was witnessed and written down what Jesus said, of which gives more light to this Scientific Concept: … [23] The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him, [24] Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. [25] Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother: [26] Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. [27] And last of all the woman died also. [28] Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her. [29] Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. [30] For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. ST MATTHEW 22:23-30. So, here it has been published about this concept of IMMACULATE CONCEPTION, but the average Black Christian does not even have any idea unless they understand certain concepts about science. ASEXUAL REPRODUCTION is what Jesus has revealed and this goes way back before the Neanderthals were ever MUTATED to become MUTATED INTERSEXED BEINGS of whom cannot produce MALE OFFSPRING. More specifically though, Asexual Reproduction there are many distinct kinds of Asexual Reproductions today and very distinct terminologies that defined the detailed aspects of these kinds of reproductions. This kind of reproduction has been measurable on earth in many other regards both in the plant and animal kingdoms. IN the Plant Kingdom, THE FIG TREE [ie. The BLACK BERRY TREE] would be a major example and would be why the Bible authors used it in many, many of their writings. Anyway, here are some secular references that may help to understand the many different aspects to this Asexual Reproduction: ==Parthenogenesis == (… from the Greek …, Parthenos, [virgin’ + … genesis, ‘creation’ [3]) is a natural form of asexual reproduction in which growth and development of embryos occur without fertilization. In animals, parthenogenesis means development of an embryo from an unfertilized egg cell. In plants parthenogenesis is a component process of apomixis. Parthenogenesis occurs naturally in some plants, some invertebrate animal species … and parasitic wasps) and a few vertebrates (such as some fish, [4] amphibian, reptiles [5][6] … https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis == Life history types == Some species reproduce exclusively by parthenogenesis (such as the Bdelloid rotifers), while others can switch between sexual reproduction and parthenogenesis. This is called facultative parthenogenesis (other terms are cyclical parthenogenesis, heterogamy [9][10] or heterogony [11][12]). They switch between sexuality and parthenogenesis in such species may be triggered by the season (aphid, some gall wasps), or by a lack of males or by conditions that favour rapid population growth (rotifers and cladocerans like daphnia)…. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis == Arrhenotoky == (from Greek … tokos “birth of-“ + arrhen “male person”), also known as arrhenotokous parthenogenesis, is a form of parthenogenesis in which unfertilized eggs develop into males. Typically, females are the offspring in parthenogenesis, hence the important distinction. In the most commonly used sense of the term, arrhenotoky is used synonymously with haploid arrhenotoky: the production of haploid males from unfertilized eggs in insects having a haplodiploid sex-determination system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhenotoky == Fig fruit and reproduction system == Fig plants can be monoecious (hermaphrodite) or gynodioecious (hermaphrodite and female). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ficus#Fig_fruit_and_reproduction_system But there are two more concepts that connect to this Immaculate Conception written about in ancient scriptures. [1] One is the description of ADAM. When it was written that Eve was CLONED from his bone, then that would be another hint at the potential that the human body does possess! So, in a way, Mary and about a thousand years earlier, BATHSHEBA become a marker for the presence of Adam’s Eve. Because of the concentration of Hebrew Israelites in that region and their generations, this phenomenon occurred. In other words, because Bathsheba was Black African typed, this phenomenon was able to happen because the Hebrews did not intermix on a wide scale with other foreigners in contrast and comparison to other people at that time. But as Jesus did say, this whole world has been intermixed, however, the Bible brings out the science and genetics about this issue. Solomon was rebuked for bonding with certain type of women due to worship of White Supremacy [ie the goddess ASHTEROTH], but even though he was defined as being, true-black-skinned, he was not pure-black in his generations due to his Great-grandmother Ruth, a White woman. Nevertheless, the Jews were not as intermixed as the Ten Tribes and many other people and therefore, both Bathsheba and later Mary become the genetic marker for this phenomenon to occur. Due to Solomon’s sin, the House of David was divided and Solomon’s brother Nathan became apart of the story of Mary and Joseph. Solomon continued the Y-DNA and the patrilineal line of Adam and David as was written in the Book of MATTHEW but, Mary came from the line of NATHAN, of which both Solomon and Nathan were the sons of Bathsheba. The lineage of Mary in the Book of ST LUKE shows the branch at the lifetime of Zerrubabbel and Salathiel during a time of captivity under the Chaldeans in Mesopotamia. Therefore, the presence of Jesus becomes directly related to the Matrilineal DNA and Jesus could perhaps be defined as a clone. Although Adam and Eve lost that ability, however, Mary becomes the marker that reveals the Modern Human connection to a Pre-Modern Hominid existence before the Neanderthals were mutated. But the more amazing description would be in this reference: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, … ST JOHN 3:16. This is the most important concept that correlates to the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION. It was written that Adam was Created in the Image of God, but Jesus is the ‘only Begotten SON!!!’ This reference reveals a huge insight into ASEXUAL REPRODUCTION!!! And most Black Christians have no idea! So, in contrast and comparison to Intersexed Beings that are born, Asexual reproduction becomes very a very unique process. Here are some other references: == Metagenesis ==- or == Alternation of Generations == Animals develop differently. They directly produce haploid gametes…. (Some insects have a sex-determining system whereby haploid males are produced from unfertilized eggs; however the females are diploid.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternation_of_generations == Heteromorphy == ...some plants have distinct egg-producing and sperm-producing gametophytes, … In the seed plants, the microgametophyte is called pollen. … https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gametophyte == Heterogamy == The production of two type of gametes is called heterogamy. … In reproductive biology, heterogamy is the alternation of differently organized generations, applied to the alternation between parthenogenetic and a sexual generation. [1][2] … https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterogamy Again, this would be one major reason why the Fig Tree becomes a symbolism in the Bible as well as the HONEY BEES. In the Animal Kingdom, there are certain types of fish that are asexual. But then there is another reference about this phenomenon; the description of a future tree written about in the BOOK OF REVELATION in that it bears 12 different kinds of fruit every year. The distinction about the MUTATION that led to Intersexed Neanderthals is that they can’t produce MALE OFFSPRING. Something happened to their Y-DNA. Yet another description of Intersexed Beings that correlates to this subject would be the snail. But I can’t remember the details. I think it represents ‘true Hermaphroditism and became a major symbol for the ancient Mayans. Now, to quickly conclude and complete a thought, IMO, and due to the account of a very violent time in the Pre-Modern Human world, Jesus perhaps was the Only Begotten Son but, He may not have been the only begotten . . . !!! I think that there was another very closely related Being to this story and that being correlates to the presence of a mutation that led to a mutated intersexed being. We today may not be able to grasp such a concept of HOMINIDS being ASEXUAL or INTERSEXED, but this is what surrounds the prophecy about the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION. All humans today, have to possess that capability within our chromosomes, IMO. It doesn’t seem that difficult to believe for me. [2] BEING DEAD 3 DAYS AND THEN RESURRECTED & AN ELUSIVE CREATOR I guess another term could be REGENERATION. And there is such a concept that can be equated with this scientific concept. Right off my thoughts, I kinda remember that certain SNAKES may have this presence. Today, we don’t think of DEATH as SLEEPING or being in a comatose state that can revive, and I don’t know too much right now, but that is what I believe can correlate to this theory about a human body going through DEATH and DECAY and then REGENERATION. The scripture redundantly term it as FROM THE DUST OF THE EARTH I CAME AND TO THE DUST I WILL RETURN… until Resurrection. Some other ancient civilizations term it as ‘THE PHEONIX RISING FROM THE ASHES’ [which is the same as DUST]. But nevertheless I will present some SECUALAR SCIENTIC IDEAS THAT MAY CORRELATE TO THIS CONCEPT OF RESURRECTION of the Human Body: Matter is neither created nor destroyed. In 1842, Julius Robert Mayer discovered the Law of Conservation of Energy. In its most compact form, it is now called the First Law of Thermodynamics: Energy is neither created nor destroyed. In 1907 (I think), Albert Einstein announced his discovery of the equation E=mc2 and, as a consequence, the two laws above were merged into the Law of Conservation of Mass-Energy: The total amount of mass and energy in the universe is constant. Generally, textbooks would add, as I am doing, that mass and energy can interconvert. https://www.chemteam.info/Thermochem/Law-Cons-Mass-Energy.html Okay, that’s it for now… LOL == Komodo Dragon == By Neil – self-made, CC BY-SA 3.0, A baby Komodo dragon, Varanus komodoensis, produced through parthenogenesis. Komodo dragons are an example of a species which can produce offspring both through sexual reproduction and parthenogenesis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis PARTHENOGENESIS means VIRGIN BIRTH

@Troy I think between the ages of 26 and 29 would be a good time to become a mother, but today, I think women are healthier and do have babies much later as you have said.

Okay, I will be on the the lookout. @Delano You think so? Well, I dunno, but I read somewhere that @Mel Hopkins says that she has measured high on 'Spatial Intelligence' and etc., and well, I had to look that term up! LOL. But she does fit what she is saying, IMO. She is amazing IMO. I only wish I could. But the problem with me is that, I think anyway, I am not that good at picking up deeper signals and messages immediately. It takes me a while. I think it may be because, I am second born in my family and my older sister clearly proved that she was much more smarter than me in certain ways such as in the areas of observation and intuition. She used to trick me all the time and I was slow at realizing it. She always ran circles around me, 'outhinking me'! She went on to do very well in her studies and became a Chemistry Major at a prestigious university. She, on the other hand did say that I was really sharp in other areas. She observed that I am highly intellectual in some areas. I think that I am too, and have become more wiser with age. I dunno; LOL I think you are completely underestimating @Cynique. She just perhaps, not choose to deal with certain topics, but IMO, It seems to me, that if she wants to 'Bring it' she can. LOL. Anyway, I think you are very deep and you go over my head a lot. LOL. but, what I like about you, is that you challenge me, and I like that!

I do too! I had to shut down my computer earlier because I suddenly had gotten sleepy and could not finish a thought. But I came back to this because it made me think. I believe that 18 is okay for some, but it's still young enough NOT to understand the deeper ramifications of what the outcome of having sexual relationships can mean. For example, a girl at 18 -- fast forward 20 years later-- to 38 years old, could have had to spend the 20 years hovering over her child as a single mother. But a guy even at that age of 18 also, could end up on the Maury Povich Show with his MOm trying to protect him from being attacked for abandoning a young girl who charged that he left her 'holding the bag', and if the dna test proved he was the father, well, his paycheck becomes depleted for the next 18 years. "but if you can die for your country in a war then for heaven's sake you should be allowed to have sex and buy a drink in bar." Man! That is crazy!!! "I would say 30 is a good age to consider getting married today and it is what I would tell my daughters." I dunno @Troy. In terms of 'women' have you thought about the Biological Clock' issue? The eggs? Some people think that a woman's eggs are stronger when they are younger than 30 and I think after 30, if a woman get pregnant for the first time, she has to undergo certain test for the possiblity of having a Down Syndrome birth which becomes a higher chance for this reason. I think some women start getting scared when they get close to 30 and have not had a child and then may look for potential fathers for their children. But that is another problematic subject IMO.

@Pioneer1 True! I never thought of it that way, but this is so true! @Troy LOL @Pioneer1 awesome video! ROFL!!! Hilarious! Can't stop laughing.

@Pioneer1 It's nothing deep. I just saw a lot of ongoing jabbing going on in the community and thought it would be a good idea to start this thread. But I really found what you said here very interesting. I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed this at work. Yes, I think people give our signals all the time directed at someone. IMO, there are too many different personalities on the internet today, and it is no telling what kind of atmosphere a community might develop, but I just try to 'monitor' myself and stay on the same purpose for why I come to sites like this one. in the first place. Self Control is good for me, but I also believe that the atmosphere can change, no matter who the manager is, male or female, and this can cause a negative atmosphere where people have veered off the topic. I try not to feed into this negative energy by 'remembering' that I came to the community for other things--Not to insult, belittle or attack someone deliberately. I don't believe anyone presently visiting this community actually came here to insult anyone, but it happened and I think it would be good if we try to have some respect because, it helps. Because there will be controversial topics that will always come up in a discussion forum, offenses are bound to happen, but it is good to stay on topic because, I know I can grow from these experiences.

@Delano Uh! LOL! I just responded because I thought the thread topics were very good, but so far, I have not 'read into, or thought about any underlying purpose' as to why the threads were posted. NOw, I'm thinking . . .

@Pioneer1 LOL. I'm pretty sure the answer is yes for most, but not with any Tom, Dick or Harry. But in light of this thread, a virgin would not neceassarily know what 'sweet talking' could lead to. yes that's it!-- But again, a virgin may not realize the outcome Yes!

@Cynique Really!? Didnot know that either! @Troy Thank you! Well said. True. But I don't think that is good due to the kind of world we live in right now.

LOL, yeah, Now, that would be obvious. That would be homosexual behavior and homosexuality. "I am sure you can find a YouTube clip of Bonobo chimps. It may change your mind." Well, I have googled again, and still don't see anything huge that differs from my other observations, specifically about the way this government has change their publications about this subject in order to re-define homosexuality. It seems to me the same-ole same-ole thing as it was thousands and thousands of years ago, only they are deceptive continually about certain facts. That is my problem with this issue, and what happened to Kevin Hart, brings it out. They want to take issue with him and mark it by dropping him from being the MC of the Oscars, but as Nick Cannon, pointed out, nothing was charged against the White women who had done the same thing! So, as I believe, this system is not trying to make a 'coexistence' neutral, but they are instigating SOMETHING and it is aimed against BLACKS and this is not new, IMO. So, in terms of the BONOBO, here is some things that come to my mind when I re-looked at some references: [1] Some of the research is about infant Bonobo behaviors, [2] it seems most, if not all, is based on Bonobos IN CAPTIVITY or some type of CONTROLLED RESERVE, [3] it is only a 20 year study that they are drawing conclusion on [4] Behavior vs relationship----- no lasting relationships with the same animal, meaning it is more like GROUP SEX, and last but more important [5] Most of the HOMOSEXUAL BEHAVIOR [HOMOSEXUALITY] is done by females!!! That means that this government is like--ENTRAPPING BLACK MALES to think that this phenomena is normal based on a study that involves FEMALE HIGHER ANIMALS!!! LOL What a trick! They are showing a MATRIARCHAL DOMINANT SOCIETY of PRimates! Here are some links: During World War II, when the Allies bombed Munich, the city’s zookeepers are said to have reported that the chimpanzees survived the trauma of the nearby destruction. The bonobos all died of heart attacks. Observing bonobos in captivity, Savage-Rumbaugh probably expected to find a violent social regime similar to the one made famous by Goodall. https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/animals/our-orgiastic-future?page=all https://www.livescience.com/44464-bonobo-homosexuality-natural.html This New World Government Order has changed the publications about homosexuality for specific reasons that they term as being normal, meanwhile, after our Black president has ushered in this law, legalizing homosexuality, somehow African Americans are being attacked on higher level that the recent past, and I believe there is a connection to both of these two significant current events. MOTIVATION & SOCIAL BEHAVIORS Homosexuality animals is seen as controversial by social conservatives because it asserts the naturalness of homosexuality in humans, while others counter that it has no implications and is nonsensical to equate natural animal behaviors to morality. [6][7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior So that is an interesting quote and here is why; Of all of the observations of this so-called natural MORAL animal homosexual behavior that is being associated to us humans today, and justifying homosexual behavior as ‘natural’ the authors have failed to also stress that these higher PRIMATE animals practice GROUP SEX of which commonly includes ADULT PRIMATES HAVING SEX WITH THEIR YOUNG [ie IMMATURE] and also SEX OCCURS BETWEEN THE YOUNG akin to CHILD SEX. LOL. So, I guess that will be our next law passed: By Melissa Hogen boom, 6 February 2015 … Junior bonobos may use sex to bond with more dominant group members, allowing them to climb the social ladder. … Even the young comfort each other with hugs and sex. http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150206-are-there-any-homosexual-animals But the other vital aspect of this correlating primate homosexual behaviors to human homosexuals today would be that the observations are mostly of FEMALE PRIMATE HOMOSEXUALS of whom engage in sexual copulation and etc. So far, the male primates have not been observed to respond as do the female primates. And again, unless we understand the existence of INTERSEXED HOMINIDS and their GENETIC MAKEUP in comparison and contrast to the Modern Hominids, the MATRIARCHAL ASPECT OF THE ANIMAL WORLD in comparison to Homo Sapiens as being the HIGHEST FORM OF ‘ANIMAL’ EXISTENCE will not be understood. I can understand observation and classification of social and sexual behaviors amongst the animal kingdoms of the world, but why in the world would modern humans turn around and regard primitive behaviors as being normal without the consideration of the distinct differences in the primitive hominid’s anatomy versus the modern human anatomy today? so now, this is funny, sort of: In the past, Black Africans were mocked and deemed justified to undergo the Slave Ship Trade System and the chattel slave system because we were acting like monkeys, swinging from trees, in other words, we were acting uncivilized—PRIMITIVE; Oh but now, it’s good to connect today’s homosexual behavior to our ‘cousins’ the GREAT APE FAMILY of PRIMITIVE PRIMATES. Now, it’s okay to associate homosexuals to being normal because, hey, the monkeys and gorillas and etc. do it. It is as if they are trying to encourage Black women to become dominant, but the problem won't be Black men, but we would be left vulnerable to being attached by White Supremacist--we would be called dogs and etc. and we'd be left without any coverage or defense from STRAIGHT BLACK AFRICAN MEN! Are Black feminist women being supported and defended by EFFIMIMANT or GAY BLACK AFRICAN MEN!? No, whether we are apart of the LBGT community or Straight, we seem to be addressing our being 'left unprotected' by Straight Black men! What a confusion! The Matriarchal system of apes vs the Matriarchal system of hominids. In my research, there are many healthy Matriarchal Systmes in ancient times, but they are not defined on the basis of homosexuality! But as far as people of African Descent, who have been suppressed and miseducated under a global Colonial government system, if they do not understand the deliberate miseducation about the presence of the INTERSEXED HOMONIDS THAT EXISTED prior to the MODERN HUMANS that are born ‘anatomically male or female’, they will continue to be exploited to further a cause and to put forth a law that goes against their presence, but more importantly, it will go against the well-being of our offspring. False propaganda has been put out about the past in that there was a peaceful coexistence that occurred in ancient times between intersexed Hominids and Anatomically male and female Hominids, but this would be a total lie. If that were so, then ask yourselves, why haven’t you been taught about this history!? The truth would be that, during these times, the most devastating outcome was that of the dark and suppressed victimization of little African children, especially Black African male babies. But hey, maybe history won’t repeat itself . . . For the first time, homosexual behaviour between female gorillas has been documented by UWA scientist Associate Professor Cyril Grueter. https://www.nationalgeographic.com.au/videos/other/homosexual-gorillas-4260.aspx Published online 2016 May 11. Doi; [10.1371/journal.pone.0154185], PMCID: PMC4864209, Pmid:27167861 Homosexual Behavior in Female Mountain Gorillas: Reflection of Dominance, Affiliation, Reconciliation or Arousal? Cyril C. Grueter1 and Tara S. Stoinski2, Elisabetta Palagi, Editor There have also been reports of same-sex sexual interactions between immature individuals and between adults and immatures [2, 13, 15]. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4864209/ BONOBOS The culture is a matriarchy where competition is redirected into a communitarian sexual appetite. https://psmag.com/environment/bonobos-have-sex-with-everyone-are-awesome-may-hold-key-to-our-past-59956 By Melissa Hogen boom, 6 February 2015 Males that have had a fight sometimes perform genital-to-genital touching, known as “penis fencing”, as a way of reducing tension. More rarely, they also kiss, perform fellatio and massage each other’s genitals. … All these species might be best described as “bisexual”. Like the Japanese macaques and the fruit flies, they switch easily between same-sex and opposite-sex behaviours. They don’t show a consistent sexual orientation. http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150206-are-there-any-homosexual-animals @Troy okay. I will look at what you wrote again. Do you mean 'Everybody here' or Everybody in the US or etc.? Absolutely!!!-- But I'll be back...

@Delano It depends. It depends on what concept I guess. I believe that some men can be smarter than the average woman if they have studied the uniqueness of our makeup 'in general' what makes us unique, and if a man has interacted with women enough to know 'a commonality' in what makes the average woman behave in the way 'we' do-- what is our motivation, aspirations, frustrations with our existence, etc., then a man could supercede the intellect of the average woman if the goal is to become spiritually connected to our being. That is my initial thought. In order to intellectually range higher than another persons's spirit, it would take a willingness and effort to match that spirit. I think men should try to at least do that, otherwise, we will never be understood and appreciated for our unique presence. Knowledge is a defining sort of power. I think, because women have been suppressed by mankind, we tend to have to 'out think' men in order to be free and so, that may be what makes us smarter, at times, than the average man -- in some things.

@Mel Hopkins That is a scary thought. But, I do agree. I think our transition into this system was terrible and indescribable, but as unfathomable as it was, I feel that under the system of Black kings, Black women had NO chance at all. I am hoping that in the future, we will be regarded as equal, but I don't think it will happen easily because of this system too, that seems to benefit from the gender conflicts. She's good! I think her term 'Intersectionality' is out-of-this-world brilliant! But then, She's a Black woman. Black women who strive to be professional and who are brave enough to stand up, are my constant reminders of true brilliance. She broke down how other issues always drown (us) out and our suppressions end up becoming completely invisible. It is insane. I was shocked to learn in this article that she was on the 'Anita Hill' case!!! I didn't know that! I remember that case so vividly. I watched every minute of it. I was completely BLOWN AWAY too, that Black women demonstrated against Anita Hill in support of Clarence Thomas. You gotta be kidding me! WOW! I can't imagine why? What in the world? I never heard any of that. She describes coming out of the Capitol to find it ringed by largely African American women “holding hands singing gospel songs in support of Clarence Thomas. It was like one of these moments where you literally feel that you have been kicked out of your community, all because you are trying to introduce and talk about the way that African American women have experienced sexual harassment and violence. It was a defining moment.” https://www.newstatesman.com/lifestyle/2014/04/kimberl-crenshaw-intersectionality-i-wanted-come-everyday-metaphor-anyone-could I never knew. I wonder why? IMO he was completely . . . Man!!!

@Delano I have to agree. But I try to keep in mind what @Cynique said too. . . It's is the internet . . . and like @Troy said, I try to shake it off and keep it movin. "You have never been dismissive." Thank you! But I'm gonna keep that a secret from my husband! "He is am Aries and I am a Scorpio. So he is Mars by day and I am Mars by night." Now I'm curious!

@Troy "Sometimes things can appear to get headed but you can't take any of it personally." Seriously though, thank you for the guidance. But, I think sometimes I can get ahead of myself and then when I look back over something that I am passionate about, I realize that it is hard to completely see everything on certain subjects I have researched and so, If it comes to my attention 'how small my mind is' It doesn't surprise me that I am sometimes wrong and need to address it, and make apologies and clarifications, if i can. I think people, especially me, sometimes do make offenses and overstep boundaries, thinking (we) know it all, but other people can and do always bring other perspectives that add so much more to ideas, thoughts, actions. When I share my views and research, I sometimes go into the discussion with so much confidence that I really got a full understanding only to find out, I didn't. "Sometimes you have to get to know folks. For example, I'd say things to Pioneer in a way that I would not with you -- simply because he is another dude with amazingly thick skin " LOL! Thank goodness for that!!! THIS IS YOU AND @Pioneer1 or YOU and @Delano: Seasons Greetings!!! HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!! ... Now I'm about to get into some deep topics over on the other thread . . . . YEAH, Imma say it . . .

LOL! They still have not respond to a certain question!!! LOL! What about if a boy was setting up house for a man, a boy in the 6th grade? *Male entitlement*

@Delano Yeah, 'going on a hiateus' I think sometimes is good for everyone, but I just hope that, we as Afro-Americans, in general, who come together for scholarly debate don't attack each other so viciously that we cause someone to feel that a permanent hiatus is the only solution. I have read that both Troy and you had an earlier friendship and, I'm like, WOW, I hope they don't fall out too bad. LOL! Then I see you and PIoneer1 going at it, and then I'm thinking, DANG! Is this a man thing. LOL. Some situation comedies portray that men seem to go to disagreements differently than women--I don't know. OH! Thank you, thank you, thank you! But I can take criticism like any adult, and I will try to stay in the right frame of respect, that I believe in, however, I try to always put a check on myself too. I try to always be ready to say, I apologize. My perception of you though, is high because it is easy to see past the personal jabs aimed against you, for me. @Cynique I believe that 'trying' is the best that we all can do at times especially as you said, 'respect is mutual'. For me, though, when you write about your being 'tired and old and impatient' in one aspect, I can understand, but your energy and expression, defies your 'being old' IMO. You are so unique to me. Your spirit defies your being old. I'm old(er) too! LOL--But I want my spirit to be strong, no matter. @Mel Hopkins LOL! That is easy for me to see! This sounds like one of my sons, viewpoint! Thank you for the reference of the Late Dr. Chancellor Williams!

@Cynique Thank you, thank you, thank you!-- for giving this consideration! @Delano yes, I can see the rhetoric about this species too, but the updated references seems to be such a contradiction amongst this scientific community on their breakdown of the terms 'homosexual behaviors' vs 'homosexuality'.

TROY, DISCUSSION & RESPECT I have an inquiry about this community, but firstly, I want to say this: I want to just say, thank you Troy for having and maintaining this site, a site that I have been able to come to and learn and also share. I have a lot of respect for you for what you are doing. I love to engage in a scholarly debate on topics that I think revolve around the African American Community and topics that affect me, but I do not want to be insulting or disrespectful to anyone whether African American or not. I hope to obtain confirmations on certain topics of my interest and also learn new things. I could not even imagine what it takes to manage such a community, but I thank you for allowing me to be here in the little time that I have been so far. But now, I have an inquiry based on the tone that I am sensing due to some of the recent postings and debating that has been going on in some of the threads. I think that European Americans come from a background where they have conflicted violently amongst each other and the World Wars may be a marker for this, but what I wonder though, is that are people of African descent pre-conditioned or inherently different from other cultures in our well-known type of Black-vs-Black hatred meted out towards each other. Does the idea of ‘respect’ become impossible to do when we attempt to communicate and discuss issues that we feel may be important? Are we conditioned to feel that we must dominate and control each other’s thoughts and beliefs? What if another Black person disagrees with another stance, does this kind of disagreement warrant a slight or personal insult aimed to strike down, demean, bully and control? When a person has been dealt a personal attack on their character then, how should they respond in a community designed for discussion and debate? As for me, I come to this community to share and to gain other perspectives, but should I disagree, I am making a statement now, that I am going to ‘check myself’. There are some topics that are controversial but that should not mean that there is intent to harm. If I have offended someone wrongfully and it is brought to my attention, then I will try to make amends because I believe that this Discussion Community should not be used for the purpose of insulting another person. Some topics start out ‘intense’ but then humor is added in such a way that the interchange becomes a sharing experience. My coming here is not to attempt to control anyone or demean anyone who does not agree with me by dealing out personal insults or striking down someone’s humanity, freedom of speech or religious beliefs or whatever. If I write, for example, that I like psychedelic leaders, and then another poster states in response ‘that psychedelic leaders are freaks and practice beastiality’, well then, I might initially believe this is a personal attack, even after seeing valid references. Nevertheless, I am still going to try to receive it as criticism, but if there is truly no personal attack intended, then would it be so impossible to at least offer a respectful statement as an act of peaceful interchange? I want to share my beliefs and my research in hopes that I can gain or win someone over to what I have concluded but I have no intentions of hating or disrespecting anyone because of not agreeing with me. I hope that, at least, my input will be read and considered. But Troy, if I sense the urging to back off and leave this community that you have set up, then I will. I have much respect for the brilliance that so many Black African Americans and other people can bring to the table. But Hey!--If I am considered to stupid and ignorant to be respected too or to be given at least, the benefit of the doubt, and have my input weighed in on topics, I will refrain. Again, thank you Troy, for your genius.

I know too, that many Black women have been hurt and abandoned. And, I believe for this reason, many of them have turned to other ways to gain that acknowledgement that they so deserve. This government has done so much damage to us. They have encouraged our gender conflicts because it gives them power over us. @Pioneer1 Number one, it's driven by the anger and hatred many AfroAmerican women have towards AfroAmerican men AS WELL as the ignorance many AfroAmerican women have about their own sexuality and African sexuality in general. Further, they see aligning themselves with Caucasian feminists as an opportunity to gain economic and political influence and power without realizing the tremendous toll it will take not only on them but the lives of future generations who will end up psychologically damaged and morally confused from their unwise alliances. I agree.

@Troy I read what you wrote about California. Wow! But did you read my references? I was under the understanding that this issue was still based on parental consent. Based on most of the laws in the US, I would believe that this has become an issue of a long process of looking at experiences of these 14 year old and younger children. I think it now has become an issue about DATA and not 'placing morals on others'. It seems to be a governmental issue, meaning the government has taken control due to what has happened in the past with such things as 'child labor' and etc. I'm sure there are still children being forced to work in sweat shops today, but it is not an issue of morals after so many hundreds of years of observation. It is not an issue of my belief anymore. Pedophilia is well defined, rape is well defined. The example you posed about Jerry lee lewis, you don't think that the massive response is suitable enough to show how the world views this issue, and since then, how the government has repsonded? Troy What about @Mel Hopkins statement; you would not have a problem with a boy in the 6 grade getting married to an adult male? You would call that love? @Pioneer1 Yes. thank you Pioneer, for emphasizing what your main focus has been on!!! I can see that for you and perhaps other men, your idea of 'physically forcing himself on a girl above puberty' seems okay. But I think that as a woman, especially due to being in a position where a man is 'sweet talking' and trying to take it to that next levely, we woman see from another point-of-view'. I think it may be, as the saying goes, 'men are from mars and women are from venus'. As a woman, I know that a lot of girls are tricked into going to the next level and have been railroaded, but men perhaps here these stories and still think and believe the man's view in that the girl consented. That is why I am so grateful for the laws about 'age of consent'! It helps, but on a little!!!!! Side Story: I remember when I was in high school in California and I was mesmerized by this guy. He had already graduated but he was pursuing me hard. He was drafted into the football team in Stanford. So, I gave in to him and agreed to meet with him . . . during school hours. Our school was easy to walk off with any problems. So, I 'skipped school that day'. I walked home as he instructed. Then, I was SO HOPING that he did not come and knock on that door! . . . but he did! OMG! I couldn't believe it! I panicked. But, I decided--NOOOOO!!! And I thought if I let him know that I am here and I open the door and let him in, I will be . . . So, I tip toed all the way back to my parents bedroom and sat on the floor, behind their bed... and listened to him knocking, what seemed like forever! LOL! He knocked for about 30 minutes! Finally, he left! WHEW! Close call. I was 16. Thank God for this country now, after slavery, and their age of consent. WHEW! I did not consent, but I'm sure he could have sweet talked me into . . .

If it is now admitted that scientifically, DNA shows Biological males are originated from the African man and the Bible states that the adversary is against the PREISTHOOD, than don't you think that this aim is against Black African men espeically and to get them to accept homosexual bonding as normal and this as being possibly part of the 'nefarious plan' and goal, that is to strike down mankind [all mankind] but especially the original mankind ultimately? I am not against homosexual man bonding for life, but I am against raping little boys, Black AFrican boys with the purpose of racism, domination and control. That is pure evil. That is so NOT true but can you give me an example, since you are so sure about that? That is so NOT true but can you give me an example, since you are so sure about that? I know i didn't get my science degree from a high college, but it was accredited, I have applied my education and contrasted and compared, so I beg to differ with you on that score. The Bible is ancient written and published works by many different human beings and it was based on science. @Troy This is so NOT true! But the best way that I can express this point is to ask you or anyone that believes that we modern humans are closer to Gorillas than Neanderthals would be these types of questions. Neanderthals are proven to speak intelligent languages and have other behaviors like making fire and etc. so: As of yet today, Have you seen any gorillas driving cars? Have you seen any gorillas building huts or houses? Have you seen any gorillas building camp fires? Has anyone been able to carry on a conversation, talking, with gorrillas? No, we are not as closely related to gorillas as White Supremacist would have you to believe.

@Cynique I mentioned this too. And I said that I noticed after 2006, the reports were deliberately changed from the earlier stances about homosexuality in the higher animals. So, I did google to refresh my memory and confirmed this trick. But even though statements are made to try and state a lie, NO SERIOUS SCIENTIST WILL SAY THAT PRIMATES ARE EXHIBITING HOMOSEXUALITY, they specifically say that 'many animals including the primates show HOMOSEXUAL BEHAVIORS!!!!!!! LOL. Scientist then go on to defind the difference between these terms 'homosexuality' vs 'homosexual behavior'. They admit that only humans have homosexual bonding relationships and as of yet NOT ANY OTHER ANIMAL DOES THIS.

@Troy I addressed that statement in my post. If scientist say that today many of us, especially Europeans, have Neanderthal DNA, then we today are expressing two different species or origin! Therefore, it should be obvious that the scientist are NOT summarizing the complete truth. If two species mate and have an offspring, and that offspring continues to reproduce then, both species are represented. As I said, the dominant presence is extinct but the recessive form is still here since we today still express this DNA continually through our reproduction. A mule is the offspring of a male donkey (jack) and a female horse (mare). [1][12] Horses and donkeys are different species, with different numbers of chromosomes. Of the two F1 (first generation hybrids) between these two species, a mule is easier to obtain than a hinny, which is the offspring of a female donkey (jenny) and a male horse (stallion) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule Still today, there are DONKEYS, and MARES and MULES and etc. being born and, therefore, the Mules shows that DONKEYS are not extinct and also MARES and not extinct. A MULES would be a hybrid of both and would not this mean that the mule is also part donkey and part horse? How can the horse or donkey be extinct then? Well considering the formation of this system in that it concentrated on dominating THE DARK CONTINENT, it would seem that it is a part of the White Supremacist Movement. I would find it hard to believe that in all of the victims of chattel slavery that homosexual acts was not committed. @Pioneer1 Thank you!!!!!! @Cynique I'm not an authority on this subject, but just sharing my research and opinion. But if white scientist are saying that the Biological Male that correlates to their Y-DNA HAPLOID grouping, BASAL A [basal Adam] that is in all Y-DNA CHROMOSOMES all originate from BLack Africa then, how is that advancing white supremacy?