Chevdove

https://www.nytimes.com/1987/11/03/us/19-children-of-muslim-leader-battle-a-bank-for-5.7-million.html WOW This is interesting. Now, I am wondering about questions that could possibly be directed towards @Pioneer1. So now, the repercussions of the leader in his actions to have sex and father childrne from young girls is passed off onto the NOI community that supported their leader and turned a deaf ear to these relationships. So they supported their leader seemingly unconditionally OH BUT NOW, it seems that some of these supporters don't want the 'Illigitemate' children to have a reasonable compensation from their father's earning??? Why not? Why would certain NOI members dislike these offspring for expecting to have substantial support from their father's earning? Just by the mere fact that they could have endured harship from others as a result of being born from young girls should dictate that they each receive compensation for being the leader's child, IMO. So now, if the NOI community don't want the offspring of this leader to receive fair compensation for the trouble their father caused them to be exposed to due to his actions, then the community should have confronted their leader. Am I looking at this the wrong way? I wonder if I have gotten something right.

@Troy Good Point. I think this term 'Illegitimate' is thrown around to loosely without considering the plight of many people who happen to be born from situations beyond their own control, and this can unfairly put a dark cloud over someone who deserves a fair chance at life and opportunity. Nevertheless, I understand what @Del is referring to regarding the conflict in the NOI that cause the organization to become divided.

yeah, that is too much for me. @Pioneer1 But, if that man was banging young girls and you had a young daughter, you expect me to believe that you would have no problem letting that contractor work on your house around your daughter in your absence? So, it wouldn't matter if he was banging your young daughter, --along with other young girls--just that he did a good job as a contractor working on your house?

@Pioneer1 LOL I think I could debate that with you! I partially agree to a point. Some of my co-workers from Nigeria are beautiful. They are thin and their skin glowed and they have bright eyes. But, Other Americans who have been to Nigeria say it is very, very poor country. And, some documentaries show that a lot of Nigerian woman are extremely large--Thick Madames-- and they consider it a quality to be 'Thick Madames'. LOL! You may need to look at the Olympics! And see who is winning percentage-wise! I think it is 50%-50% when all factors are taken into consideration.

Wow Yes.

@Pioneer1 Truth! @Troy I absolutely agree!

Baby Elephant Falls in Pool Rescued by Mom and Aunt I love to watch nature films and this one really amazes me. I watched it over and over again. The film captures the elephants’ reactions when the baby ‘calf’ accidentally fell into a pool. The older elephants immediately responded and became frantic. The Mommy elephant initially became paralyzed with fear and her sister, who was not even near the incident, sensed the danger and immediately and without any hesitation came running to help out. Do we as humans respond in this way if a child’s life becomes threatened? Well, I think for many people this would be the case but for me, it did not happen. My mother used to always say to me that ‘I was the Judah of my family’ and ‘that I was the scapegoat’, however, I wish she would never had said that. But yes, for some strange reason, I was the family idiot and many times came to the rescue of my family. But when I needed help, I was abandoned . . . until my uncle(s) came running to my rescue. I think that it is good to reflect on some animal behaviors because it may help to understand how we as humans have sometimes gotten off track in how we should relate one to another. I especially wanted to post this here in relation to some cases about THE BLACK AMERICAN CULTURE because I feel that at times, we have gotten off track here in America to some degree. And so, in addition to this video, I think it would be good to consider some of the strange decisions of some Black Mothers today with regards to the protection and welfare of their children. I think that some issues have become so common that many of us today, have become selective and choose not to recognize that there is a serious problem. And because many of us don’t think that there happens to be a problem, then no solution has been sought. For whatever reason, there are times when Black Mothers do abandon and abuse their children but why? Could it be because they need help and are not getting ADEQUATE SUPPORT from their husband, family members, or the government? Nevertheless, when I watch nature films like this, it makes me think about certain ills of our society. At any rate, this incident captured on video went viral and I think it was for a very good reason. The baby elephant was standing beside the mother and the edge of the pool ‘gave way’ and the baby fell into the pool and could not stay above the water. The mother panicked but, immediately and it seemed almost simultaneously, the Auntie who was a ways off sensed the danger and she came running! Auntie realized the Mommy was frantic and bewildered and so she, without any hesitation, ran on the far side of the Mommy. The Auntie shoved the Mommy so hard that the Auntie’s back legs actually slipped! LOL. She forced the Mommy into responding. Meanwhile, in the background, there was another elephant ‘freaking out’ about the incident. This elephant was prevented from being able to advance because of a fence. But the elephant immediately started pacing and running alongside the rope back and forth. But Auntie was able to get the Mommy to move. Then they both ran to the shallow entry into the pool side. The Auntie ran on one side of the desperate baby and the mother went to the other side and they both guided the baby over to the shallow edge of the pool and then the baby was able to walk out of the pool. ============================================================================================================================= Mother accused of drowning daughter in Tampa river had just been cleared in abuse investigation August 3, 2018, 3:25 PM A woman accused of drowning her screaming 4-year-old daughter in a Tampa river had been cleared this week by sheriff's child abuse investigators. The Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office issued a statement Friday saying its child protection unit had started an investigation of Shakayla Denson, 26, on June 19 about her treatment of her daughter, Je'Hyrah Daniels. The investigation was closed Tuesday after no evidence of maltreatment, abuse or neglect was found, the agency said. … … Tampa police say Denson stole a car Thursday afternoon from a sales lot and forced her daughter inside. As she drove away, she knocked over a bystander who tried to stop her. About 40 minutes later, the car pulled up to the Hillsborough River, which runs through Tampa. Witnesses told police that Denson dragged the screaming girl to the water, waded in until she was shoulder deep and pushed the girl into the current to float away. They said Denson then walked out of the water and away from the river. She was arrested nearby. https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-shakayla-denson-daughter-drowned-20180803-story.html Nov 14, 2018 … Family members informed officials that Daniels had autism and was non-verbal. According to the report, HSCO was originally involved in the case in June 2018 after they received a report concerning Denson's ability to properly supervise Je'hyrah. The report referred to an incident when Daniels got out of her great-grandmother's house and wandered to a park about six minutes away. https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/crime/final-welfare-report-showed-no-risk-of-harm-to-daughter-left-to-drown-in-hillsborough-river/67-614515126 My thoughts are; Could this have been prevented. I wish I knew the answer.

WOW Jare Ijalana ~ She’s Only 5 Years Old! Back in July, this news broke due to photos of this little girl from Nigeria. She’s been dubbed ‘the Most Beautiful Girl in the World’. A little girl from Nigeria named Jare Ijalana has earned the title of “The most beautiful girl in the world” after three of her pictures went viral on social media. The 5-year-old child was photographed by Mofe Bamuyiwa who revealed that she chose not to make Jare laugh or smile but instead wanted to create a natural moment…. https://www.blackpeopleforum.com/2018/07/26/jare-ijalana-nigerian-girl-5-is-called-the-most-beautiful-in-the-world_n_126.html =========================================================================================================== I hope she won’t be exploited. Children need to be children, that’s how I feel. There are a few reports that the viral photo shows her wearing a wig, nevertheless, there are other pictures taken of her with her mother and sister as well and they are all beautiful.

@Pioneer1 Well, in this case, I think the issue here was not exactly about them protecting their women, but as a whole, it was about them protecting all of their people and protecting themselves from outside invasion from the 'White American Christian Movement'. Firstly though, I want to say, that I feel sad for that man that was killed. He was so young, only 26 years old. But I can't believe that he was made to believe that he could go to these people like that!!! I can't believe that he would try to bring that form of 'Christianity' to these people. According to what I read, it was illegal for him to go there anyway.

@Pioneer1 Thank you. I am trying to get better. It's a long road. I'm on my way back to Florida for awhile and maybe the warm weather will help. It's cold where I am now, in Maryland. Milk--no chees--no chocolate . . . I'm pleading the 5th. lol! LOL... NOw, that's interesting.

@Pioneer1 Hey! I'm doing fine. Thank you! I've been sick with Bronchitis. LOL! You need to stop! I've been procrastinating a little, but you forced me to relook at some terms, and that is good! It only reinforced what I already researched. But I am very glad you did. Also, I think I've been sidetracking too, and gossiping.

@Troy LOL! Me too.

OH GOSH, so true!!! absolutely. Okay, so this is so complex to me, in that she is debating with Malcolm X, but I think he too, was not all that Pro-Black all of his life. We all have issues and need to work them out, but it is not easy trying to do this in America. Anyway, I don't think it is good to 'judge a book by its' cover'. We all have to contemplate how we have come to form our opinions regarding racism. So, this reminds me of something that happend to me years ago: Side Note: Years ago when my oldest child was a toddler and my younger child was an infant, I accused my husband of cheating on me with a White woman but the end result, was embarrassing for me. My next-door neighbor, a White American ‘German-type’ girl was my best friend at the time and I asked for her help in confronting my husband when he came home from work. I had checked our answering machine and ‘my heart fell through my stomach’ as I listened to what sounded like a White woman talking to my husband on the recorder. I immediately ran and knocked on my girlfriend’s door and had her come listen to the recording. She also said that it sounded like a White woman and she too, got angry. So both me and her came out into the foyer at the top of the second floor of our apartment building and waited for my husband, ‘that BLAM NEGRGO’ to get home. He climbed the stairs and then we confronted his ‘behind’. But, he paid us NO attention and he looked tired from work. He completely ‘blew us off’ as he opened the door, but we followed him down the hallway to our bedroom and we demanded that he listen to the voicemail. So, I hit the button with passion, and stood back by my girlfriend to see what he was gonna do when he saw that we busted his rass. . . . So, after he listened to the voicemail, he turned and looked at me and said, “[my nick name]”. He said, ‘Chev’, he paused; “THAT’S YOU.” OMG. My girlfriend and I looked at each other, in surprise, and then, I realized that it was me! OMG. DARN. We both grabbed each other, and slowly backed out of the room, then we ran down the hallway and out and ran into her apartment… and laughed till we cried. I had forgotten what I sounded like on recordings. My girlfriends at the HBCU always gave me a hard time about my speech pattern and I sometimes try to change it, but my siblings and cousins from Western Pennsylvania, we all sound very similar. So, the moral of this crazy experience would be for me, in that it’s not good always judge a book by it’s cover. The first impression may not be the complete person.

Wow. In a way, her speech pattern does sounld, to me anyway, like she is Black but then, she also sounds to me like she could be White [European] too. She can't pick that accent up from just being around White people or her husband, IMO. Nevertheless, regarding Malcolm X, WOW. I read a book about him and I was under the impression that he had a time in his life in which he dated White women!? [side note: But then, hey, my speech pattern has fooled a many of people] At any rate, I think that Interracial relationships between AfroAmerican Descendants of Slaves and White Europeans is not 'cut and dry'; It is wrong to categorize everyone with the same conclusion. I think that COLORISM doesn't help this cause either. But, again, in my experience, there are Black men who blatantly based their choice to date and marry White women based on their hatred of Black women and vice versa, and this is a serious problem. But then, there are also some Black men that I have come across that date White women, but they don't disrespect Black women and at times, they are very positive and address issues of racism against Black people. The late, Ivan Van Sertima, immediatly comes to my mind. He married a White woman, and this does not take away from his positivity as a Black man, IMO. I've also come across a number of AfroAmerican women scholars who are married to White men, and has done passionate work on bringing forth information about the Black presence in ancient civilizations and are very positive. But, I have a double standard too, when it comes to Black women who date White men. My take on this is not easy for me to explain or express on paper. I absolutely don't agree with anyone feeling they have to demean Black men as a basis for wanting White men, but I think there is a deepr level when it comes to Black women in this subject. I also think that celebrities should not be excluded and exempt from affecting the masses because they do reflect the whole. ONe of my favorite actresses is Whoopi Goldberg, and I realize she rubs some Blacks the wrong way. Another of my favorite celebrities is Alfre Woodard, and I was surprised to find out she married a White man, but nevertheless, I don't feel that the 'sold out their people', so I still appreciate their work. As for Evie, she rubs me the wrong way.

I dunno but I feel that if other pertinent issues are not addressed then this gender issue that other people keep highlight and exploiting to keep AfroAmericans divided will continue. It is as if we are still afraid to address this crucial issue . . . and it is more convenient and much safer to keep blaming this gender issue on Black men completely. . . as if we both don't play a role in this kind of mistreatment against Black women. In my upbringin and now, when I sit around my relatives, and hear how Black women obsess over light skinned Black men, and White men on soap operas and etc. it makes me sick. ONe of my sister-in-laws, married a very, very, dark skinned man and had 3 sons. She constantly talked at the table amongst her other sisters about how Black skiined her husband is... and she always stressed the word BLACK as if it was UGLY. Finally, one day, her brother, [my husband] told her to just STOP. When she dated him, her older sister, first saw this man, and she immediately told her baby sister, NO!!!-- She did this right in front of my brother-in-law. So he never liked that older sister. A few years later, the 'baby sister severely abused her sons, ran off with his 'cousin' and abandoned her sons... Another relative of mines had two little boys, but openly preferred the father over her sons because they were not as light skinned as their father and they had nappy hair like her. She preferred his Illegitimate son over her sons because he was light skinned and had 'good hair'. When her little boy at the age of 6, told her that he was being sexually molested, she did nothing. But when he told his father in the presence of his mother, the father flipped out, but the mother stated, "i was also molested" and downplayed the matter, ... and it was her own child. When the father came home and saw that both his son and daudhter were allowed to take baths together when they were about 6 years old, he abruptly stopped it and had to tell his wife, to not allow this. ......... So when I hear how Black men allow 'bad AfroAmerican or BLack women' the opportunity to oppress Black children, it makes me confused on how these issue are also not addressed when Black women want Black men to protect them from White racism. It makes me sick. I would never support NOrdism coming from Trump or anyone, but there are some serious issues that still exist amongst AFroAmericans that I will not ignore. Black women and little Black girls don't need bad role models from either adult genders, especially the mothers because they become our first nurturers in life. But if they become adults and mothers that repeat a pattern of self hate and act against their own children, that will not help at all to hide this issue and expect the Black race to cry that we don't want to be victims of racism.

@Troy One main source of ancient script that I refer to is The Book of Isaiah. He wrote about 'prisons' and 'captivity'. But then, I realize I did contradict myself; in rating which form of human sacrifice is worse. I think that this is the problem; rating which forms of human sacrifice si worse. I think that a penal system is crucial based on reality, but as a result, it has also been abused and used for human sacrifice. i think that for us today to rate Chattel slavery vs the prison system is a big mistake though, and as a result, we as African Americans have become 'the lukewarm wall' that keeps this flawed system moving onward in the worst way. HISTORY IS A WEAPON Slavery and Prison- Understanding the Connections By Kim Gilmore "I'M BEGINNING TO BELIEVE THAT `U.S.A.' STANDS FOR THE UNDERPRIVILEGED Slaves of America" (Esposito and Wood, 1982: 149), wrote a 20th-century prisoner from Mississippi in a letter detailing the daily violence he witnessed behind prison walls. His statement resounds with a long tradition of prisoners, particularly African-American prisoners, who have used the language and narrative of slavery to describe the conditions of their imprisonment. In the year 2000, as the punishment industry becomes a leading employer and producer for the U.S. "state," and as private prison and "security" corporations bargain to control the profits of this traffic in human unfreedom, the analogies between slavery and prison abound. This year the U.S. prison population cascaded past 2,000,000, 1 with millions more under the jurisdiction of the criminal justice system in local jails awaiting trial, in INS prisons awaiting deportation, or in their homes linked with criminal justice authorities through ankle bracelets that track their every move. Recent studies of the prison boom stress the persistent disparities in sentencing according to race -- prison populations continue to be disproportionately African American and Latino. With longer sentences being imposed for nonviolent drug offenses, with aggressive campaigns aimed at criminalizing young people, and with the growing number of children left orphaned by the criminal justice system, the carceral reach of the state and private corporations resonates with the history of slavery and marks a level of human bondage unparalleled in the 20th century. ... https://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/gilmoreprisonslavery.html "HUMAN BONDAGE" "Unparalleled in the 20th century." Michelle Alexander: More Black Men Are In Prison Today Than Were Enslaved In 1850 https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/12/michelle-alexander-more-black-men-in-prison-slaves-1850_n_1007368.html

I agree.

@Troy Wait! Let's back up a little . . . the ancient scripts written by ancient authors, human beings, all point to the PRISON SYSTEM 'today' . . . in the futre, . . as being much worse than slavery, but you just don't get it!? There are many forms of human sacrifice and various forms of captivity, enslavement, including chattel slavery, but still all scripts point to being imprisoned as being much worse than being enslaved, but Troy, you just don't get it!? . . . umh. . . My answer would be as follows: #3 1817 #3 1917 #3 2017 HERE IN THE US vs ANYWHERE IN THIS WORLD; my answer would be as follows; #1 There must be an overhaul of all global systems #2 THE US is not HEAVEN for everyone just a few select Democrats and REpublicans, so there must be an overhaul of the Amercian system #3 My husband and his father and his fathers are NATIVE AMERICANS so, I say there must be an overhaul of this bait and switch government Whether a person was killed during chattel slavery or during modern prison system should not be the basis of a survey of which times were the best under this White Supremacists and their government. @Troy White people are not all that good as you think, whether yesterday under their chattel slavery system or today under their prison system. However, their prison system is a step DOWN/UP from their chattel slavery system because they have refined it better to get people to accept them as being in charge. It would be good for Black African people to start thinking differently. We don't have to exist like this!

@Troy True! Yes, I absolutely do! Could it be perspective? Could it be that we have been conditioned and bombarded with methods to block out certain pertinent issues and have made to view them in a way that we don't realize is still a problem? @Troy Previously, in this thread, you mentioned slavery, then Jim Crow and then being profiled for not having a key fob to enter into our apts as if it is a progession of time that has improved for us AfroAmericans, but this is not how I view it. I am not speaking from fact but general belief for now, but I believe that we need to consider a bigger picture here, in terms of economy too. When we AfroAmericans exclude the prison system and how Black men and women have been criminalized, locked up, prevented from having adequate income as a result of legal actions and etc., today is not better but worse. Just because technology and other methods has railroaded Black people from not having a voice and being shut up in the system, waiting for a decent attorney or the Democratic Party to be fair, does not mean tht the most of us are better off than the slavery days. The prison systems is, for me, the elephant in the room. Being shackled during the mid-atlantic slave ship voyage, or being shut in a cell for days, months, years.... which is worse? And . . . I believe this is also due to a streamlined and approved educational system too. @Troy Maybe for a few, but you can't beleive this would be true for all? True!!

@Troy You mention the World Wars in terms of how White people have hate issues amongst each other, but I am wondering how far back do you believe that White-on-White hostilities go back?

@Pioneer1 I agree. And yet, these shows ran for a long time and then other shows were also produced. Go figure.

Wait, But @Troy My response is based on your earlier post. So, you quoted me below, however, this all started from what your response. And, your other response would connect to this issue, IMO:

@Troy absolutely. Racist people don't become racist because of the actions of a non-Black person, rather, racism and White Supremacy is based on something else and it is a conditioning. Her marrying a Black man has nothing to do with her being a racist or not. Well, racism and White Supremacy, does not make sense to me either, but it is prevalent. When women marry men of their own culture versus marrying outside of their culture, I think there is a distinction. Not when the police are called I guess I need to rephrase my questions because your answers erase all hints of issues that have plagued this world in terms of Colorism and economic basis. Can you give me an example of a White woman who 'wants' [ie meaning marry] a Black African American man who is NOT a bread winner? absolutely.

@Troy You already brought point up. LOL. I responded that her husband, who is her 'ex-husband' spoke against her actions. They had been separated for over a year and he was not living in that luxury apt. LOL true, but for more reasons than one! Do Black men want Black woman for marriage partners? Do Black women want Black men for marriage partners? Do White women want Black men that are without a substantial income? ...