White People Who Can Pass For Black, Brown, and Yellow.

[Pioneer1]

For those of you who believe race is ONLY a "social construct" with no genetic basis, or those of you who believe that just because a person "looks" White phenotypically....they could actually really be "Black", I have a question.....

We've seen plenty of so-called "Black" people who could obviously pass for White but the Black community accepts them and embraces them as Black despite their appearance.

Where are the White people who LOOK Black or Asian but actually are White and are recognized and embraced as fellow White people?

Show me the man or woman who LOOKS Black but actually is "White" and is fully accepted as such by the White community.

 

"I know I may LOOK Black, but I'm really one of you guys.
I was just passing."
 

[richardmurray]

I know everything involving the human body relates to dna in the complex cellular system that is in all humans or all other living organisms.

I also know that one's appearance or phenotype  doesn't determine one's allegiance to any group.

 

But, to me the issue is the war in the black community involving phenotypical race. 

From the free blacks who fought alongside white people who still supported slavery but wanted freedom from england versus the free blacks who fought alongside white people who still supported slavery but wanted revenge against some whites

From Frederick Douglass who was booed by a crowd of black people when he spoke his composite american speech versus Marcus Garvey who was insulted by WEB DUbois seeking Black unity.

To Barrack Obama elected primarily because of the black turnout who said he had to be president of all to Nelson Mandela who was willing to award qaddafi of libya for his help to black people in south africa. 

The Black community in the last 500 years globally has an internal  nonviolent battle over its self identity plus its relationship to the white community aside the constructs made by whites. 

This is complex for the Black community anywhere Pioneer. 

I will argue, if the tribes in the black community showed the violence to each other that white tribes did and do, this wouldn't be an issue. But the truth is, the black community , rightly or wrongly isn't as internally violent as many whites or blacks think or suggest. 

So, this complexity brews on. 

[Pioneer1]

But if phenotype is irrelevant and a person who LOOKS White but has a Black ancestor can be considered Black.....as has been the case historically in the United States with so many White looking people being embraced as "passing" Black folks -

Then my question is why doesn't it work in reverse?

Where are the "Black looking" White folks?
How are they treated in the White community?


 

Quote

But the truth is, the black community , rightly or wrongly isn't as internally violent as many whites or blacks think or suggest. 

 

I agree.
Also, a lot of the violence that goes on in the AfroAmerican community is JUSTIFIED violence.
I've mentioned many times that White racists in law enforcement and the medical industry have purposefully put CRAZY and VIOLENT Black people out on the street and especially in some Black neighborhoods to destabilize them and keep chaos going.
So if you're a decent Black man or woman trying to do the right thing and mind your own business....sometimes you might have to wind up going up side some "crazy nigga's" head or even killing them just to protect yourself and your family from the fool!
 

[ProfD]

As I mentioned in the other thread, the number of people pretending or passing for another race is insignificant. 

 

White folks don't stand to gain anything from pretending/passing for Black. I guess they could take advantage of Affirmative Action.

 

Pretending/passing could become an issue if/when reparations are on the table but we've got a long way to go in that regard.

[Troy]

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Then my question is why doesn't it work in reverse?

BECAUSE WE LIVE IN A WHITE RACIST SOCIETY, not a Black racist one.

 

There is no societal advantage for a so called white person passing for Black. Is this news to you?

 

 

[zeke1234]

         I preface this comment by saying that I am a Christian.  I have many life long  light skinned Black friends and relatives, who I would not trade for anyone else.  Universally generalizing on people because of their skin color, perhaps is not the best way to view the present or the past.  Having said all of that, history and the present gives witness that ‘some’ light skinned mulattoes thought themselves ‘better than’ phenotypical Blacks in history, even until today. 

      In my city ‘down South’,  the light skin mulattoes on the other  side of ‘Main Street’, have their own clubs, churches and cliques.  On the other hand, there  are many light skinned mulattoes on 'my side'  of ‘Main Street’, I don't know if they even care to be a part of that society.  Most light skinned mulattoes of my side of ‘Main Street’ married dark skinned spouses.  On the other side of ‘Main Street’, they maintain light skinned progeny. 

      We see the same types of divisions at Howard U.  in the District, and light skinned churches along Rhode Island Ave.  The same way that many light skinned mulattoes may be ‘fakin and shakin’ that they are ‘Black’, many more Blacks are ‘fakin and shakin that they are Black, but really want to be White,.  And  they are the main betrayers of the Black race.  No sense of race uplift, nor  of racial unity.  Can’t universally generalize on people.  Can’t universally condemn people.  

The most dangerous 'Negroes' are those  that repent to the Lord that they were born Black, (there must have been some mistake in Heaven),  and ask the Lord to wash them ‘White as snow’, like Tina Turner.  Who want to be buried in White graveyard in Europe,  away from all the other ‘dirty’ Negroes, praying to  a ‘White’ God for salvation.  Who see ‘whiteness in itself’’ as sanctimoniousness and truth.  Who don’t want to count Biden’s HIMARS systems and cluster bombs from the U.S. that are killing thousands of  Russian peasant prawns daily, that Putkin forces into his army.   Who pray to that White 'god'.   These are the most dangerous ‘Negroes’ on the Earth, who see ‘Whiteness’ as truth and godliness,  throughout the Black Baptist  church,  Negroes on ‘the other side’  of Eight Mile Road in Detroit, and those in the after-life clasping the hands of those of the Holy Roman Catholic Church (big  time slavery theologies). 

Watch the effect of Biden’s new student loan foregiveness plan, its effect on Social Security payments in the future.  Biden is dealing from the bottom of the deck, on student loan forgiveness.   Someone will have to pay for the amounts of debt not collected by SALLIE MAE  regarding these rich White people, who were just given a free education by Biden,  and it is being paid for by the blue collar working grunts.

The Black fellow named King who ran into North Korea a few days ago, the prodigal son, who needs our help and prayers.

Florida group telling Blacks what they can and can’t teach, is more White b___  s____.  

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, zeke1234 said:

Universally generalizing on people because of their skin color, perhaps is not the best way to view the present or the past.  Having said all of that, history and the present gives witness that ‘some’ light skinned mulattoes thought themselves ‘better than’ phenotypical Blacks in history,

Colorism exists within phenotypical races and ethnic groups with folks throwing shade one way or another.

 

Even greasy looking white folks get the side-eye treatment from the pale-skinned whites.

[frankster]

On 7/20/2023 at 6:36 PM, Pioneer1 said:

For those of you who believe race is ONLY a "social construct" with no genetic basis,

Yes to race as a Social Construct

 

On 7/20/2023 at 6:36 PM, Pioneer1 said:

 

or those of you who believe that just because a person "looks" White phenotypically....they could actually really be "Black", I have a question.....

As it is a social construct....it could be either given the expediency of the political nuances of the dominant class of the time.

 

On 7/20/2023 at 6:36 PM, Pioneer1 said:

We've seen plenty of so-called "Black" people who could obviously pass for White but the Black community accepts them and embraces them as Black despite their appearance.

The Dominant class dictates where you fall in the so called Racial Categorization....The Oppressed has no choice in the matter

 

On 7/20/2023 at 6:36 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Where are the White people who LOOK Black or Asian but actually are White and are recognized and embraced as fellow White people?

 Such individuals  will face questions from both sides...One side will be saying they are "sell outs" and the other will be the are "Honorable".

Do such individuals exist...Yes - though I would call them black according to my understanding of racial categorization which it must be understood is every changing according to politics of the time.

 

 

On 7/20/2023 at 6:36 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Show me the man or woman who LOOKS Black but actually is "White" and is fully accepted as such by the White community.

Whether or not some one is white or black is dictated by the dominant class....look no further than Enrico Tarrio ex leader of the the far right Proud Boys.

 

On 7/20/2023 at 6:36 PM, Pioneer1 said:

 

"I know I may LOOK Black, but I'm really one of you guys.
I was just passing."
 

True.

[Pioneer1]

frankster

 

 

Yes to race as a Social Construct

 

I believe that the CATEGORIES of race are social constructs that vary from one society to the next, but the FACT of race is not.

Race ITSELF is genetic and biological and the differences exists outside of the opinions or classifications of human beings.

 

 

The Dominant class dictates where you fall in the so called Racial Categorization....The Oppressed has no choice in the matter

 

For the most part, especially when we're talking about "official" categorizations.
However the oppressed as a community CAN and SHOULD discriminate between people and have their own standards to determine who belongs with  them and who doesn't regardless of what the dominant society says or tries to impose.

 

 

 

 

Whether or not some one is white or black is dictated by the dominant class....look no further than Enrico Tarrio ex leader of the the far right Proud Boys.

 

You're right.
But while this is true, again...it doesn't mean the oppressed can't educate themselves and then come up with their OWN classification systems to determine race.

They may not be able to enforce most of their codes, but they can certainly have them.
 

[richardmurray]

All I want to say is many of you confuse words meaning arranging based on some condition:  race/order/class/gender/ethnic and many others side a word that means acting favorably or disfavorably based on a condition. The word bias is the word many of you seem unable to use or don't know how to use, while using the following words falsely in the word bias place: race/ethnic/order/class or similar. 

Race isn't Bias. 

Applying a phenotypical label, black or white, is just an arrangement. 

A human being killing another human being cause they don't share the same phenotype is an act of bias. 

 

[Troy]

On 7/21/2023 at 1:17 PM, zeke1234 said:

Can’t universally generalize on people. 

No, we shouldn’t, but people do it all the time. Ignoring complexity makes the world easier to understand, but harder to navigate because of the simplistic reasoning.

 

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Race ITSELF is genetic and biological and the differences exists outside of the opinions or classifications of human beings.

you keep saying that, but it flys completely in the face of what we know about genetics. Did you read that article i shared?

 

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

it doesn't mean the oppressed can't educate themselves and then come up with their OWN classification systems to determine race.

this would be copying the flawed tactic of the racist. Why continue this? Clearly it is not a good idea.

 

 

 

[Cynique]

There are bi racial people who pass for black and many of them play in the NBA.  Stop using skin color as the only racial marker.  Hair texture is just as influential, not to mention  facial features such as noses and lips.   

 

    

[Pioneer1]

richardmurray

 

 

Race isn't Bias. 

Applying a phenotypical label, black or white, is just an arrangement. 

 

True.
It's a categorization which helps to identify and classify people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Troy

 

you keep saying that, but it flys completely in the face of what we know about genetics. 

 

Genetics determines phenotype.
Phenotype is the basis for racial classification.

 

this would be copying the flawed tactic of the racist. Why continue this?

Who said it was "flawed"?
It's been working for THEM for hundreds if not thousands of years, so perhaps it's not so flawed after all.

Maybe we SHOULD learn a lesson from them and take a few copies, lol.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cynique

 

 

  Stop using skin color as the only racial marker.  Hair texture is just as influential, not to mention  facial features such as noses and lips.  

 

Who said that skin color was the ONLY racial marker being used?

And from your comment....I take it that you support the belief that there are multiple races?
 

[Troy]

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Genetics determines phenotype.

Not exactly. There are epigenetic factors as well.

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Phenotype is the basis for racial classification.

OK, but obviously there is little agreement as you don’t consider Malcoim X or Barack Obama to be Black while others do. These racial classifications are far from objective.

 

 As @Cynique mention there are a variety of  arbitrary phenotypical characteristics that white racists have used to define different races including skull shape.

 

still your reasoning ignores the fact that there is no test for “race”  — indeed there cannot be one for all the reasons mentioned and more!

 

You ignore the science and instead cherry pick sloppy word choice in articles to make your point. Why? 
 

Does the fact that there is no genetic basis for race just throw your world view about what it means to be Black into disarray?

 

Blackness is about culture, shared experience — one’s ethnicity — not the shape of one’s skull or the thickness of their lips.

 

Forget about a genetic basis for race; every conclusion you derive from that   premise will be wrong.

We’ve seen how destructive this reasoning has been in the hands of racists over the last few hundred years. White people put millions of  other so called white people in gas chambers using this logic.

[Pioneer1]

Troy

 

Not exactly. There are epigenetic factors as well.

I didn't say it was the ONLY thing that determines phenotype.
It was the major factor.
But ofcourse one's diet and environment also are factors.
Perhaps I should have made that clear.

 

 

 

 

As @Cynique mention there are a variety of  arbitrary phenotypical characteristics that white racists have used to define different races including skull shape.

 

So do you agree with her that hair texture and facial features are also used as racial markers?

 

 

 

 

 

still your reasoning ignores the fact that there is no test for “race”  — indeed there cannot be one for all the reasons mentioned and more!

 

The problem isn't that  A test (only one) doesn't exist....the issue is that MULTIPLE tests exist, because there are MULTIPLE systems of classification for race.
It would be ideal if one "global" classification system existed for all the races to be classified under; but I'm not sure how likely that is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You ignore the science and instead cherry pick sloppy word choice to make your point. Why? 

 

What science have I ignored?
I've mentioned genetics and phenotype and have given you scientific article after scientific article.

  

 

 

 

 

Blackness is about culture, shared experience — one’s ethnicity — not the shape of one’s skull or the thickness of their lips.

 

If Blackness is about culture.....

Then does that mean that Africans who come to the United States from the continent and don't sure the AfroAmerican culture are not "Black"?

And on a different side of that same coin, does that mean that Eminem or one of the Kardshians who celebrate and share aspects of AfroAmerican culture and even get their hair braided and speak slang...CAN be considered "Black"?


Is this kid considered "Black" to you?
 

 

 

 

 

 

Enquiring minds want to know...lol.
 

[zeke1234]

To Troy  ----  you state,    

 

"you keep saying that, but it flys completely in the face of what we know about genetics. Did you read that article i shared? "  

 

Please respecify the title of the article.  I can't find it in any posting.   

[Cynique]

@Troy You wiil never change any minds here when it comes to race. Folks only believe what they want to believe . And, btw, the traits i spoke of are superficial ones;  variations on a prototype . 

 

In today's social climate,  try comparing race to sex, and the argument will be made that there are only 2 sexes; male and female  and  that the fluidity  claims of the LBGTQ crowd are bogus. But when it comes to advancing the argument that there is  only  one race, the human one, suddenly the argument  that there are numerous different races is considered a valid rebuttal. This is, indeed a societal issue. 

 

i don't have any trouble accepting  the current science on race, .  To me, its premise is simple. When it comes to Homo Sapiens  its population is considered  monolithic by virtue of its members being more alike than different, and  that factor constitutes   the  deciding qualification of  a single race.  

[Pioneer1]

Humanity isn't a "race"....it's more like a FAMILY or GENUS.
Race would be akin to a SPECIES

[Troy]

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

Race would be akin to a SPECIES

What?! Stop it.

@Pioneer1 someone in another conversation mentioned that reparations should be given to people are at 50% Black.
 

Since you believe in a genetic basis for race would you describe how we measure the degree of one’s Blackness?

 

 What is your percentage of blackness and how did you make that determination?

[Pioneer1]

5 minutes ago, Troy said:

What?! Stop it.

@Pioneer1 someone in another conversation mentioned that reparations should be given to people are at 50% Black.
 

Since you believe in a genetic basis for race would you describe how we measure the degree of one’s Blackness?

 

 What is your percentage of blackness and how did you make that determination?

Oh it gets deeper than that......lol.

In my opinion Reparations doesn't go to someone SIMPLY because they're Black or 50% Black....but only to AfroAmericans who are ADOS....descendants of Slaves.

If you're a mixed ADOS...I don't think you should be denied Reparations.
It's tricky...depending on how mixed you are....but in my opinion 50% is enough to qualify you because a lot of slaves themselves were mixed.

[Troy]

Again @Pioneer1 how do you measure that?  Consider the scenario:
 

A child has parent described as follows (1) Black Parent, descendant from an enslaved African who was raped by an overseer, and a white parent.  Their child presents as white. The child was reared in a white neighborhood and did the things that white kids do.  

 

Based upon everything you have written you would call this child "white" and take offense if they called themselves to be Black, simply because of the way that they looked. Should this child get reparations?

 

Of course, your mythical genetic test would fail to pick up on the child's "blackness," because there is obviously no genetic test for a social construct -- despite the fact your "flat-earther" mentality rejects this fact.

 

 

[Pioneer1]

3 hours ago, Troy said:

-- despite the fact your "flat-earther" mentality rejects this fact.

 

 

  See.....now, you're just TRYING to be obnoxious.

 

[Troy]

OK, sorry @Pioneer1.  I'm not trying to obnoxious; I'm just trying to make a point in terms that are crystal clear to you (didn't the smiley face help?).

 

Again, if you believe there is a genetic test for the social construct of race, then explain how a "mulatto" who looks like a white person could be tested to determine their 50% blackness?

[Pioneer1]

On 7/30/2023 at 5:57 PM, Troy said:

Again, if you believe there is a genetic test for the social construct of race, then explain how a "mulatto" who looks like a white person could be tested to determine their 50% blackness?

Well first of all, as far as I'm concerned.....if they LOOK like a White person....they are.

I don't care if their mother or father is Black.
I don't care if somehow BOTH of their parents were Black and they came out looking White (not talking about an albino).
If they LOOK like a White person, they ARE White....regardless of their ancestry.

So there is no Mulatto who "looks White".
They are a White person with some Black ancestry.

[nels]

On 7/20/2023 at 3:36 PM, Pioneer1 said:

but the Black community accepts them

The so-called black community of people who are obviously black by phenotype alone, tend to welcome almost anyone into their cauldron of blinding racial misery. Sad.

[Pioneer1]

On 8/14/2023 at 7:33 PM, nels said:

The so-called black community of people who are obviously black by phenotype alone, tend to welcome almost anyone into their cauldron of blinding racial misery. Sad.

The powerful tend to be EXCLUSIVE.
The oppressed tend to be INCLUSIVE.

[nels]

On 8/16/2023 at 4:19 PM, Pioneer1 said:

The oppressed tend to be INCLUSIVE.

One might easily wonder why black America spends so much time trying to unblack itself.

[Pioneer1]

We've improved over the decades.
I remember when a lot of girls were using BLEACHING crime and Black-n-White ointment trying to lighten up their skin.

I remember when dark skinned girls barely got ANY attention except for the occasional,  "You're cute for a dark skinned girl".
Now it seems as if dark skinned sistaz are getting as much game thrown as them as the lightest skinned ones.

Actually, when you think about it......it's the very OPPOSITE of what you said.

AfroAmericans are probably among the proudest most PRO-BLACK collective of Black people on the planet.
You don't find a lot of Africans and Caribbeans praising their Blackness and bragging about how dark and chocolate their skin is like you see in the U.S.

 

[nels]

23 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

AfroAmericans are probably among the proudest most PRO-BLACK collective of Black people on the planet.

That one deserves a big chuckle.

The problem isn't "White People Who Can Pass For Black, Brown, and Yellow.". The way I see it, it's "Black People Who Can't Pass For Anything Else". They seem stuck in the misery of their own self-hate.

[Pioneer1]

8 minutes ago, nels said:

That one deserves a big chuckle.

The problem isn't "White People Who Can Pass For Black, Brown, and Yellow.". The way I see it, it's "Black People Who Can't Pass For Anything Else". They seem stuck in the misery of their own self-hate.

Except for the occasional "We got a lot of Indian in our family, that's where we get all this pretty hair"....most Black Americans rather proud of their culture.

Ask the average Black American and he'll tell you......she'll tell you.....they wouldn't want to be anything else.
They may want certain FEATURES from other groups, like blonde hair, hazel eyes, wavy hair, some women even like to have slanted "Asian" eyes.
But they wouldn't want to BE them.

Kind of like White folks who lay out in the sun all day trying to get a tan, but wouldn't wish 1 week of actually BEING Black on their worst enemy....lol. 

[richardmurray]

@Pioneer1 

one of the problems for black people in the usa as a community is its positives or negatives are delicate in description, none are simple. I think many black or non black people who like to speak negatively toward black people in the usa in general tend to define the positives or negatives in simple terms. 

Yes the black community in the usa  doesn't have the financial wealth of whites in the usa. Yes the black community  in the usa isn't dominating the world populace like the whites from the usa. 

One of the most positive elements of the black community in the usa is after all of whites enslavement plus the black communities nonviolent path's challenges aside the whites who chose to abuse us after enslaving us, the black community in the usa is where it is at. 

Is it ideal? no. Is it the dream of the ancestors or forebears? hell no, far far from it. But, it is something rarely positive  that in a country that represents the height of white european global imperial power, the usa,  you have the second most abused community in said country, the first is the native american, having reached such a place as a community in such a non violent and supportive way to said country. 

it's delicate. It is not ideal. It is not the dream. And, many black people's true desires have died in this path. But,  through all the challenges the black community in the usa is still on a slow upswing and that is something, not simple to say like we're rich or powerful, but I think those black or non black people who like to or mostly speak ill to black people in the usa don't have the ability or desire or wisdom to articulate. 

[Pioneer1]

richardmurray

Yes, when it comes to culture and entertainment.....AfroAmerica leads and is the envy of the world.
We set the trends and the standards; and have been for decades.

One of the positives about being brought out of Africa hundreds of years ago and raised in the U.S. is that we DON'T have a set culture.
Which means we have more liberty to allow our Imaginations and Creativity to flourish.
No wonder we have invented so many styles of dress, dances, and music genres.....while many other communities around the planet have been dressing, singing, and dancing the same damn way for thousands of years.

[ProfD]

17 hours ago, richardmurray said:

One of the most positive elements of the black community in the usa is after all of whites enslavement plus the black communities nonviolent path's challenges aside the whites who chose to abuse us after enslaving us, the black community in the usa is where it is at. 

Absolutely.

 

Black folks need to do a better job of recognizing and embracing our natural abilities and talent to produce. 

 

More importantly, Black folks have to own and control their intellectual properties instead of selling ownership to outsiders. We need codification.

 

For example, Hip-Hop just turned 50 years old. The culture has generated a lot of money. Many Black folks have been able to eat very well from it. Imagine if Black folks owned every aspect of Hip-Hop. 

 

The NFL and NBA are two sports Black folks dominate. We bring every ounce of talent, flair and flavor to the games. Yet, we don't own a team. 

 

Working for someone else provides capital. Ownership produces wealth. We need to move away from gross consumerism and become more productive in providing and owning goods and services folks need/want.

 

Asians make 97% of their money in Black communities. They don't sell anything speculative. Every product and service sells itself.

 

Black folks need to do better in terms of entrepreneurship before they are replaced by immigrants and AI in the labor force.

[Troy]

I always imaged what would happen if every Black person simply left the NFL and formed their own league.  We would be open to letting anyone play for us, but we would be the owners. We would have the best tailgating, the best half time show, and obviously the best players. Sure, we would have to start small, but eventually we would grow and become very profitable.  We also won't rape the consumer with overpriced tickets a sport paraphernalia.

 

Sure, the NFL would continue without us, but ultimately their supe-bowl champion would have to play our championship team.  When the NFL's Superbowl champion team is routed by the new Black league, the NFL would have to deal with increasing irrelevancy, is it would be obvious to the public that they have an inferior product.

 

Again, our new league would not be a Black only league it would simply be owned by the people who are providing the most value. Even the fans who believe the NFL's "ice is colder," would have to recognize the superiority of our new league.

 

Obviously, this will never happen, because no player making millions of dollars year will leave the NFL to gamble on generating more wealth in the future.  

 

In my lifetime, NFL players often worked other jobs in the off season to make ends meet.  Those players, mostly white, were motivated to play for different reasons.... today the NFL is motivated by greed, but that is another story.

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, Troy said:

I always imaged what would happen if every Black person simply left the NFL and formed their own league.  

 

Sure, the NFL would continue without us...

 

When the NFL's Superbowl champion team is routed by the new Black league, the NFL would have to deal with increasing irrelevancy, is it would be obvious to the public that they have an inferior product.

 

Obviously, this will never happen, because no player making millions of dollars year will leave the NFL to gamble on generating more wealth in the future.  

The NFL would implode without Black athletes...plain and simple. 

 

The NFL without Black players would be similar to watching a football game between two Division III teams.

 

The NFL has crafted a well-oiled enterprise that feeds a lot of folks who don't suit up and play the games. 

 

College football is the NFL farm system.  They pay college coaches millions of dollars to showcase talent.

 

The TV rights and media deals are huge.  The broadcasting opportunities benefit failed and former athletes alike. 

 

Black players are paid just well enough to tow the line and do nothing to upset the apple cart. 

 

Because Black players won't buck the system, the NFL marches on making money and throwing shade at us in the process.

[richardmurray]

@Pioneer1

I will never say my forebears enslavement was positive in any way, cause it simply wasn't in any way, at least to me. I think too many black people word our ancestors recent past incorrectly like that. But,  one of the positives in our reply to being enslaved, which to me is the delicacy i was trying to explain, is that we have figured out how to be the kind of community you have to be in a multiracial community the usa suggests it is. It hasn't been easy. Our ancestors didn't have to choose that path and not all our ancestors or an overwhelming majority of our ancestors chose that path. I am not trying to suggest the black community in the usa has acted correctly or functionally but has positives. It's delicate pioneer, a delicate tale. If you tell it bluntly like you just did, you override the negativities in enslavement, you override the many black ancestors who in choosing other paths were in many ways betrayed by the black people who chose the non violent integration. 

As a sister said less than a six months ago, a representative in the california district where the black family, the bruce's got a financial owed money not reparations, the black family won , but the black community didn't

https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=2349&type=status

 

@ProfD 

Well, I was specific, and not by accident. Black people throughout humanity outside the usa shouldn't follow the black community in the usa. The black community in the usa is a community in a very unique negative circumstance that had to battle its own desires to reach this place of nonviolent growth in the most potent white empire in modernity. 

And to your query. When I think about frederick douglass's position which , rightly or wrongly, became and is the philosophical standard for majority of black leaders in the usa, then the desire for ownership you speak of is anti-usa/statian . 

https://aalbc.com/tc/blogs/entry/357-frederick-douglass-our-composite-nation/

The simple truth is, all the communities not white european panreligious <meaning those not white european christian/jews/muslims/other religions or their descendents >in the usa complain about impotency, all of them. But, they all miss what Frederick Douglass's point was, which is why black audiences booed the speech linked above when Douglass spoke it. The USA, if it is to be a integrated multiracial place can't be a place for your communities self empowerment. Yes, asians, you don't get representation in media or in government. Yes, Blacks you don't get to own everything in your community. Only the white european community gets all aspects in the usa, but that is the point. If you are not white european and want all powers, then you have to leave the usa. Please add to your financial assessment of asians in the usa three points: 1) asians < as well as white jews> have never been blockaded from owning business completely like blacks so asians have a larger history of generational wealth than blacks in the usa or the european colonies that preceded it 2)asians as willing immigrants have always linked financially to countries in asia while black DOSersunwillingly/forced to be into the usa had all links to africa or the caribbean or elsewhere severed completely, so black dosers don't have external countries to leverage financial activity like asians, who have in asia even more potent financial markets in modernity 3) black people never owned a majority of the land in any city in which they lived in the usa, black people didn't invite asians in black communities in NYC/ LA/ Chicago or other, the cities , meaning the white community in said cities, owned that land and asians opened their businesses through the city, not because black people invited asian owned business, so the black community in all geographic sectors of the usa never owned the land in lived on to dictate who does business where it lives, that is a resultant of enslavement. 

I am not saying your wrong but your position lacks all the details needed to explain it fairly concerning black people. Your position makes it seem like it was some even playing field and black people were stupid. That wasn't how today became.

 

@Troy

In your proposition you didn't mention lawsuits, you didn't mention fan reaction. If black players leave the NFL 100% which never happens in humanity anywhere. 100% of jews don't support israel or have issue with jews being disrespected in media. But if 100% of black players left the NFL, the owners of teams would perform legal action , let alone will fans react in support? The thing about these kind of sccenarios is the environment isn't just the players and how do you get the owners to not make it very hard, how do you get fans to support it? You dump the situation on the players lap. if only the players/coaches or the nfl did then the NFL would merely go on without the black players, the nfl owners wouldn't use legal actions , if only the nfl black employees did then fans will simply embrace two new leagues and the black league even under duress would financially survive. .. I Don't think so Troy. I think what you say needs the nfl owners , needs the usa government- especially legally, the fanbases which is also global to change and I see the changing slower than the players. The reason it will not happen is all those you didn't mention. 

 

 

[ProfD]

24 minutes ago, richardmurray said:

I am not saying your wrong but your position lacks all the details needed to explain it fairly concerning black people. Your position makes it seem like it was some even playing field and black people were stupid. That wasn't how today became.

Bro, nothing I write would suggest Black people are stupid maybe with the exception of being followers of certain political figures.

 

Despite the # of posts I generate on the discussion forum, I don't have time to deep dive into the historical aspects of why things happen. Rest assured that I do have the information in my pocket. 

 

Otherwise, I just try to be less verbose and long-winded.  I hope you can appreciate that.

[richardmurray]

fair enough @ProfD I have no problem to your communication style, I hope I remember it going forward but if I don't once or twice in the future you will comprehend:) 

[nels]

On 8/24/2023 at 3:26 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Kind of like White folks who lay out in the sun all day trying to get a tan, but wouldn't wish 1 week of actually BEING Black on their worst enemy....lol. 

Now that's a good one. And yes, many of today's descendants of black slaves from Africa and other places are indeed mixed with other physical races, which further diverge by culture, ethnicity, heritage and so forth. Unfortunately for a very wide swath of blacks in America, they seem to have a strong yearning to be something other than who they are. Though many won't address it, the erroneous 1/32 rule, plus colorism, outmarraige, nose jobs, lip reductions, cheekbone reconstruction, hair treatments / modifications and the like, can't change your DNA, genetic profile, long head (if you have one), propensity for adverse health conditions associated with certain types of black ancestry, and so forth. In the end, an individual's ability to accept who they are and the fact that they were even born does matter, as none of us had any say in our coming into existence and this world. 

6 hours ago, ProfD said:

nothing I write would suggest Black people are stupid maybe with the exception of being followers of certain political figures.

Perhaps that statement in of itself might seem to target the pro-Trump crowd. However, if it does, it's misdirected and lends itself to less credibility. And do remember, a lot of folks don't know the difference between being stupid and being crazy, but I'll challenge you to find a horse that will leap off a cliff.

[Pioneer1]

Nels

propensity for adverse health conditions associated with certain types of black ancestry

I don't believe there are actual health conditions associated with Black ancestry.
I think there are certain genes that Black people have that don't react well in environments that are "unnatural" to us and THAT is what causes the adverse health conditions, not the genes themselves.

For example.......
They claim that Black people tend to have high-blood pressure and it's genetic.
But most Africans don't have it....it's mostly AfroAmericans.
The two major causes of it have NOTHING to do with genetics but with the environment:  
1. Poor diet
2. Stress from racism

Get rid of those two factors, and the high blood pressure disappears despite the genetics remaining the same.

It's the same with obesity and many other so-called "genetic" problems.

[ProfD]

On 8/25/2023 at 9:33 PM, nels said:

Perhaps that statement in of itself might seem to target the pro-Trump crowd.

It applies to following any political figures who seek to serve and enrich themselves more than help the people.

[nels]

21 hours ago, ProfD said:

any political figures who seek to serve and enrich themselves

Seriously?