Pioneer1

Michel Montvert While I don't disagree with the points you made above.....and actually I think most of them are spot on....when people bring up Germany, Japan, the Netherlands, ect....as examples of safe, clean, well governed nations- Although it's true when comparing them to the United States, there are 2 major factors we have to take into consideration: 1. Nearly all of them are under U.S. military protection. Which means while much of OUR taxes and spending goes to Defense and military costs in the United States....THOSE nations don't have to spend nearly as much on defense because we're defending them. So their revenue can be put back into their respective nations in terms of infrastructure, education, ect.... 2. With the exception of Canada....most of those nations mentioned above are for the most part homogeneous. About 95% of the population of any of those countries are of the same race, so those in government in the legislative and executive roles don't have as strong of an "us against them" mentality when it comes to doing for it's citizens. Chances are those in Parliament or Congress or whatever legislative body is governing the nation see other citizens as their own fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, sons, daughters, ect....so when they craft laws and institute policies.....they usually have the best intentions in mind. I said USUALLY. They are looking to benefit their citizens because they can relate to them. However in the United States, whether it's state or federal government....you often have people of one race who look at their constituents who are of another race as "aliens" or even sub-humans. They see them as "subjects" more so than fellow citizens. This is the pervasive mentality many of our governing bodies. Having lived in different major cities across the United States, I notice that when you look at a subway station or some public structure....in many communities if some hoodlums come along and vandalize it the city or county will LEAVE it vandalized or tear it down all together. They may clean up the trash around it after a few days, but the spray paint and damage will remain for years. They have the mentality of "they destroyed their own property so let THEM live with it" But in both Belgium and Germany I've seen public structures like bus stops and subway stations get damaged and spray painted by youth and the governments will clean it up and restore it within a few days....and will often do this over and over again as many times as it's desecrated. Because in those nations they have the mentality of "WE have to fix up OUR property no matter how many times the hoodlums destroy it" Those nations have a different mind set where they care about ALL of their citizens, not just a select few.

Yes, I figured you probably were. But I thought I'd look out for you and bring it to your attention anyway.....just incase!

I think the proper word to use would be "HAVE" instead of "HAS", but we understand your point baby. I'm sure a lot of people are wondering the same thing.

Coggins If you want to know the truth, the REAL "Black baby genocide" isn't coming from abortion. It's coming from these thugs and hoodlums running around in the ghetto shooting children by accident and now on purpose. In the last couple years, so many Black children have been shot and killed on the streets it's unbelievable. Children have been killed by urban violence for decades, but since 2020 it's been unprecedented! Just 10 or 15 years ago if a child was shot and killed in the Black community on purpose it would make NATIONAL headlines. It would only happen nation wide every few months. I'm talking about if it happened on PURPOSE. Now it's happening in a lot of major cities on a WEEKLY basis.

Kenneth No, you don't sound like someone who hates Capitalism to me. But you DO sound like (and I may be wrong) someone who thinks Capitalism isn't good for our people or people in general and that perhaps Socialism would be a better economic system for us. Personally, I think we need a MIXTURE of both Capitalism and Socialism (with an inclination towards Capitalism) for a more balanced and effective economy for OUR people as AfroAmericans. Too much Capitalism will lead to violence and widespread poverty. Too much Socialism will make our people lazy and stagnate progress. We need balance. However whatever we do...WE (AfroAmericans) must decide and control our economic fate and not allow those from outside of our community to do so.

frankster Originally Woman was created to be man's help meet....that was the arrangement in the beginning. Genesis 2:18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And that's one way of looking at and understanding that scripture. However there is another way, especially when you read a more accurate translation. But let's take THIS translation that you posted: "It's not good that THE MAN should be alone" It didn't say that it wasn't good for "men" in general to be alone but it was talking about a SPECIFIC MAN. What am I getting at? The allegory of Adam and Eve refers not to all of humanity but to a specific group of humanity....namely White people or Caucasians (a term I tend to use more often). More so than that Indigenous races and cultures around the planet, Caucasian cultures in their various forms tend to be far more misogynistic and oppressive of women demanding absolute submission by them to their men. This scripture is a reflection of that. Caucasians have only started travelling the globe 800 - 1200 years ago.....Patriarchy been around 4000 to 12,000 yrs Caucasians have been traveling the planet by one method or another since about 2000 B.C. But I have a question for you... Is "male rule" the same as Patriarchy? I say one isn't necessarily the same as the other.

Michel Montvert Well you needn't debate with me as I don't find that what you say contradicts what I said Don't worry, he WON'T debate with you....lol. He only debates or disagrees with other Black people he thinks he's intellectually superior to. I was born with a reflective butt, that's all. Lol...there are many things I could do with that statement but not knowing whether you're male or female....I'll leave it alone! Lots said here. I'll address a few factual matters relative to anthropology, where I have some expertise. First, humans did not start farming upon leaving Africa. That occurred about 60k yrs ago, and agriculture only appeared within the past 11k yrs or so. Mostly even more recently that 11k. What drove the development of agriculture was climate change. In the early Holocene glaciers were melting, and then there was the Younger Dryas period which was a temporary reversion to cold conditions. All of this reduced the availability of large herd animals to hunt. Those people who remained hunter-gatherers changed their tactics considerably, concentrating on smaller game and a more diverse array of food sources. In the Mideast, along the Sahel, in India-SE Asia, in northern China, in Mesoamerica and in Carib-Andes food and animal domestication proceeded. Notice that one of those mega-domestication regions was in Africa. Africa was not entirely a cornupopia of easy pickings. In the Sahara cattle were domesticated to secure a large mammal food source, and aquatic and agricultural resources also were intensified and developed. One need not leave Africa to require adjustments to food procuring technology in the early-mid Holocene. Well, that is OFFICIAL history in Western academia, however it may or may not be true. I tend to AUTOMATICALLY not trust "official" Western history today because they are constantly coming out with "new" findings that change timelines and incidents that were once agreed upon and also I knew much of history is purposely covered up by Western scholars for various reasons. Also, as for "the West" not understanding about spiritual access enhanced by mind-altering substances... that is not true. Western culture as we understand it has 2 principle roots: Neolithic Europe and the Yamnaya (Indoeuropean) steppe culture. The former is less well known to us, but they did have an egalitarian society. women were generally in charge, and from the earth-based imagery in their art we can infer that they were very much involved with "nature spirits" and so on. As for the Yamnaya, they are known to have used in the steppes a concoction mentioned in the Rig Veda called "soma" ("houma" in Avestan) which it is believed consisted of a mixture of Cannabis, opium and Ephedra (ma huang). Evidence of Cannabis use among the Israelite priests has been found, and they had to have acquired this from Indoeuropeans, such as the Hurrians who were present in the Mideast even in Sumerian times. The term "Western" isn't necessarily synonymous with Indo-European or even Europeans period historically. When people say "The West" or "Western" they are usually talking about the Christian era North/Western European (especially England, France, Germany, U.S., Canada, Australia) culture and land base. The indigenous tribes of Europe...especially before the Caucasians moved in and settled there...are NOT considered "Western" or part of Western history. This along with a lot of culture with which we might be better off was expunged from Europe by Christian powers. The amount of culture wiped out by spreading Christianity in Europe is astonishing. Christian influence trashed much of Roman society, and the regional and local pagan cultures were decimated. The same problem exists elsewhere due to Islam. Those 2 religions have destroyed a lot of culture. Exactly. Because both religions were used by Caucasians who incorporated them to conquer and exploit the indigenous peoples in the lands they invaded. European Caucasians primarily used Christianity. Arab and other Asian Caucasians primarily used Islam. But this is why I said the pre-Christian Europe shouldn't be considered "Western". frankster To me it's more than just an allegory....calling it just an allegory people tend to miss it's importance and relevance. Not sure if Michel did, but you can't find ME referring to this stories as "just" allegories. They may be many other things besides allegories. However their other identities and purposes don't negate the fact that they ARE still allegories. It may be many things besides an allegory, however all of it's other identities and functions ma Prior to eating of the "tree of knowledge" they were in a animalistice stage (more Instinctive Gatherer than Hunter).. Are you sure about this? According to the Bible you believe in, before eating of the "tree of knowledge" Adam was charged with NAMING the animals and TAKING CARE of the Garden of Eden. More of a farmer or Garden tiller, not a hunter. Reputable sources??? Sources with a history of giving factual information and not lying. You say John and I say Juan....No one is lying. When you take the word "Helel" and change it into "Lucifer" than that IS lying. Names don't translate. They are what they are and shouldn't be modified except when there just is no other choice. John is John. That's what his mama named him, and that's what he should be called...lol. One is a translation and one is a transliteration...they are both accurate. The transliteration is accurate...but not the translation. However this is beyond argument. If you refuse to accept this, I won't waste time going back and forth with you over it. The Universal Constant of Change is fundamental to The Nature of Time.... Things may change, but the TRUTH of what they were at the time when it was stated remains the same. In other words..... If you asked me what time it was at 3pm... And I told you "3pm". Even at Midnight....THAT fact would remain the same! It may not be 3pm right now.... But the FACT that it was 3pm when you asked me remains the same, has not changed, and WILL NOT change! Like the biology books being used in schools.....that you also said had falsities in them? For them to get in schools some reputable sources must have recommended them... Perhaps in some cases, but in many other cases the books that end up in schools are the books that the school board, government, and other concerned interests APPROVE of for various purposes such as indoctrination of the population. It should be noted that while certain sources are "reputable" for providing truth. Certain other sources are "reputable" for providing propaganda...lol. You not sure is ....quite telling you are in danger of straddling the fence....or worst contradicting yourself My admitting that I' not sure is VERY telling. It tells you that I'm HONEST and don't claim to know that which I don't...lol. Sometimes it's BEST to straddle the fence if you don't know what's lurking around down on the ground on either side of you....lol "Stop straddling the fence! Come on down from there punk!" I keep telling you that the scriptures were written by inspired men....who are vain frail and do err Ok?? And?? Pornography is also produced by "inspired" men. Weapons are produced by "inspired" men. The questions are WHO or WHAT is inpiring them and for what purpose??? We are all part of the Divine.....we learn from each other Indirectly, yes...I believe this. And I KNOW we learn from each other!

Coggins And what should we charge Donald Trump with for failing to protect our troops under attack? If you'll remember.....back in 2019 Iran launched missile attacks against a U.S. military base in Iraq injury dozens of U.S. soldiers and he did NOTHING in retaliation.

1. AfroAmericans aren't free. Infact NOBODY in the United States is. 2. It wasn't "the Republicans" who "freed" Black Americans, it was A REPUBLICAN (only one) who Emancipated AfroAmericans and that was President Abraham Lincoln 3. Slavery wasn't ended. It was just modified. It STILL exists in the criminal justice system.

I agree that there has been a war (by the racists....not this nation) against Black families since the founding of this nation. Btw...some of the right-wing racists that YOU support politically are on the front lines of this war. I also agree with you that for decades White women have craftily influenced the minds of many AfroAmerican woman to hate men, not trust men, seek a more independent and anti-family life, and even experiment with homosexuality in many cases.....all in a plot and plan to destabilize and destroy the Black family. However...... I don't think abortion is the main culprit here. As ProfD said, abortion isn't the main form of birth control among Black women. Most AfroAmericans HAVE NO form of birth control that they use on a regular basis outside of condoms.....if they remember to use them. Most of our people tend to be VERY irresponsible when it comes to sexual activity and even bringing children into this world. A lot of people may not like what I'm about to say but I'd dare say a lot of children in the Black community SHOULD have been aborted instead of being brought into this world. I realize that The SUPREME BEING has the Ultimate Decision on who is born and who dies, however from a secular point of view so many of our people are screwed up mentally and physically that they probably would have been better off not being born. Religion and weird beliefs about life and abortion influences the mother to make irresponsible decisions about their pregnancies.

Personally I prefer more Black students get into "refined" sports like gymnastics and martial arts....than thuggish and brutal sports like football and wrestling

Michel Montvert And... the sad fact is that even many legitimate tribal members have plenty of white blood. Exactly, and that's part of the problem. Not only is it a matter of "identity theft" from Whites with only trace (and sometimes not even that) amounts of Native blood claiming tribal lineage....but even more disturbing it's a matter of self-hatred among Natives who WELCOME nearly White so-called members to represent them and their tribes in political and financial matters; feeling their White phenotype makes them more qualified to be successful. Then in the 60s Indians became hip and many whites wanted to be them. Some of the shenanigans which went on were extreme. Especially offensive was the habit of hippies who'd spent 2 weeks with some tribe then holding workshops at high prices to teach "Native Spiritual Ways" and so on. True. I didn't realize this until about 30 years ago. I still remember the late 70s and seeing Hippies on the streets begging for money, playing guitars, with long hair calling everybody "dude" and "brother"...lol. But I didn't realize the entire background of the movement until the 90s when the origin was broken down. I have a good perspective on that issue since I did for real live among Native people in Guatemala including studying with a chimán, or priest, but things are not as those hippies taking advantage would have it. One does not learn spiritual ways in a workshop from another white person. This is analogous to the whites presuming to speak politically for Indians. I was told, look, you have learned things. You could perform some of the functions of a chimán here, but you are not Mayan, and so you have no relevance to anyone and nobody would pay you any mind. Also, when you go back among the gringos, you will find that they won't listen to a word you say. On top of that..... It is my understanding that certain Spirits won't make contact with you UNLESS you are of a certain lineage. In this case: Mayan, Inca, or some other form of Native American. You really should do another thread about some of your experiences with the Shamans down there; I find these subjects very interesting. The dynamic is not the same at all. In Mexico, the average person, sometimes called a "mestizo", a Spanish speaker, considers themselves to have indigenous roots. is aware that much of their culture is indigenous, and does not see those who retain indigenous language and identity as "the other". "Somos todos mexicanos," one woman told me when I asked her about the ethnic variety in Mexico. And she was light-skinned and did not speak a native language. True. However among most Mexicans, even though they NOW acknowledge their indigenous ancestry....most of them still consciously and subconsciously "rank" themselves in order of superiority based on the amount of indigenous blood they have...especially as it relates to their phenotype and how it's expressed. In other words... Among many Meztizos it's ok to claim your ancestry.....as long as you "look" Spanish/White. P.S. Did y'all know that there are black people in Guatemala? They live on the eastern coast, including in the town of Livingston, and are of Garifuna culture, which also is found in adjacent Honduras.They speak a Native language, since they are essentially an indigenous group with whom so many Africans mixed that the are in appearance "black", I can't speak for others but I BEEN knew it...lol. There are indigenous Black populations all up and down the east coast of Latin America. They have various origins from escaped slaves who joined the Native Americans to Black workers who left the islands to form little work communities along the coasts decades ago....but the majority of "indigenous" Black groups in Latin America are descendants of Africans who had BEEN coming to the Americas CENTURIES before the Europeans even knew it existed settling among the indigenous for trade and various other activities.

Kenneth Thanks for the insightful posts that stimulate me to comment on....lol. Well I'll say something that may sound shocking but in THIS nation poor people....collectively...ARE primarily to blame for their condition. Yes they are being exploited and the wages are being kept low and they are being manipulated and hammered with one distraction after another but most of them don't seem to CARE even when these injustices are brought to them for their attention. In the old days, men used to get together and MARCH and PROTEST and even RIOT to demand hire wages. They'd be all over the streets demanding hire wages and more benefits. That's when it was a man's responsibility to take care of his wife and children....no excuses. But now when it's primarily women's responsibility to support themselves and any children they have and most men only contribute what they want or what the court ORDERS them to contribute....the pressure on them to earn more simply isn't there. If the average man in the lower socio-economic sector is getting (notice I didn't say "earning"....there's a good reason for that) just enough to keep his bills paid, some food in his stomach, and can maintain his supply of liquor to drink and weed to smoke -he thinks he's doing good. Who cares about a LIVING WAGE? Who cares about SAFE WORKING CONDITIONS? Who cares about a PENSION PLAN? Who cares about eliminating this "right to work" crap that is getting people fired all over the nation for the simplest of reasons by egotistical managers??? Until the POOR and WORKING CLASS people put their differences aside long enough to decide ENOUGH IS ENOUGH....don't expect much to change. Personally, I'm no longer riding for the poor. I'm working class and trying my best to GET OUT of that class and into the upper middle class and eventually WEALTHY class. Not only is it nicer but because the people tend to be more selfish...they actually CARE ABOUT THEMSELVES.

frankster I think we've conversed long enough that I'll stop using the quotes and go back to MY normal format of posting people's quotes in red. how do you verify a fact? Through direct observation or a reputable source. The Noah and the building of the Ark is about Trust and Faith when the whole World seems to be against you. Perhaps this is what YOU get out of it. I got disappointment from it because I realized it was most likely plagiarized from earlier sources. I don't get trust and faith from falsified documents. How does Helel help you? Knowing about him and his existence adds to my wealth of knowledge and information. What evidence of this do you have..... Look it up for yourself in the Hebrew transliteration of the text. Isaiah ch.14 vs 12 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/14.htm It says HELEL BEN SAHAR ("ben" means "son of"). It says NOTHING about some character named "Lucifer" in the Hebrew text. That term was FALSELY attributed in the translation .cannot the same doubts you have of scripture be said about this Helel son of sofar? No. Although I haven't verified EITHER....I trust the Hebrew transliteration more than the English translation because like we discussed earlier...it's closer to the original text. That's what I said....you using different words to arrive at the same conclusion. No. You said information is "pure data". Information isn't "pure" anything...it's a bunch of words and numbers. Data is FACTS Put another way..... All data is information but not all information is data. All Truths are but half Truth.....it is the fundamental nature of truth I don't understand this, could you explain it? If the story is based on facts....then there is Truth - seek it. Absolutely. However so as not to waste time seeking truth, don't go looking in places you KNOW contain falsehood....like the Bible. Look elsewhere to places or people with a better reputation for disseminating facts, lol. Do you think the Babylonian Captivity/conquest took place? I'm on the fence about that and simply am not sure. I believe the CONQUEST of Babylon by the Persians took place. But I'm not sure about the captivity of the Israelites. If not then your idea that the scriptures were influenced by Babylon is False How so? My premise about the scriptures being influenced by Babylon is backed up by the fact that many if not most of the books of the Old Testament were WRITTEN in Babylon! Jeremiah, Daniel, Amos, Isaiah, ect....were written in Babylon. You yourself stated that our books of Health Biology Law and Psychology have falsities and errors in them....yet we use them still. Correct. And the reasons why you CAN use them and use them properly is because you are seeing them in their proper perspective....as man-made books that can and often do contain errors. Most people who follow the Bible DO NOT see it as a man made book that can contain errors but see it as a pure and Holy book with no mistakes. And THAT is a big mistake. I only seek the truth Then you've come to the right place...lol. This is the Truth Depot! Michel Montvert The Adam & Eve story is so obviously allegory; it amazes me that Biblical literalists would believe it verbatim. Lol...that's why they're called Bible "literalists". They literally believe EVERYTHING in the Bible as the Divine Word. These 2 are created, and then experience the transition to farming! All in one lifetime! We now know that Homo sapiens is 300k yrs old, while farming is at most 12k years old. Humans had to "leave the garden" where food was available for the taking, to be forced to "earn their bread sweating and stooping over the earth." Yes, they began to farm because environmental changes reduced the wild food available. One could also look at it as symbolizing the shift from a hunter-gatherer society to a more agricultural society as they moved from Africa where it was warmer and food tended to grow more readily and plentiful to the more harsh desert and mountainous areas of the Middle East where vegetation was more scarce and you had to rely on hunting and actually farming and tilling the soil to make it more suitable for growth. There is an Israeli archaeologist who has examined every one of the events of Exodus, the plagues and so on, and found scientific explanations for all of it. Yes, it rained frogs, the water turned red, and a northern bit of the Red Sea went briefly dry, allowing people to walk across. The problem with an archaeologist attempting to "prove" that the events of the Bible had a more natural and less "super natural" explaination is that it feeds into the narrative of Bible thumpers of how "science" will go to extremes trying to attack and dismiss their faith. It would be better for the well educated to regulate the Bible to being a religious and dogmatic book of myths and allegories than to go on a MISSION to explain away each miracle or super natural event at a time as if they actually took place. It gives those events too much legitimacy and feeds into the conspiracy. If we read that an ancient person was "possessed by demons", do we believe or dismiss the assertion? What we know now is that person likely was schizophrenic or with some other mental disorder. So something there was real. Was it "demons"? Probably not. I'm not religious nor do I believe in the Bible obviously, however I personally think it could be BOTH. I don't believe in demons but I do believe in Spirits and believe they can possess people. I also believe that when people suffer from some bouts of mental illness just like being drunk or high...part of their psyche becomes more open and receptive to Spiritual contact and even Spiritual possession. This has been known and practiced for THOUSANDS if not MILLIONS of years however. It's nothing new around the planet.....only to the West. Delano 😏-So NOW you wanna get into the conversation huh...lol When a White person gets involved....NOW you see it as legitimate huh...lol

Delano A couple of hundred years ago there was a race for America. It still is. And guess who's doing the racing to buy up America? Asians. By the way, this is a good example of what I'm talking about.... Cynique said: And I agree 100%....with her STATEMENT. I've made the same observation about Family Dollar and Dollar General. They aren't true dollar stores like the Dollar Tree (used to be). Oh, she says absolutely wonderful things from time to time. Spot on! My problem isn't with what she says....lol..it's with HER. ...thus the ad hominem attacks, lol. ProfD It seems like 92% of everything in the USA is made in China or another part of Asia. Ofcourse. Because China actually cares about it's ENTIRE nation (to a certain extent anyway) and designed and economy where they have enough jobs for over 90% of it's population to qualify for. In the United States...especially after the Civil Rights Movement....they INTENTIONALLY demolished it's manufacturing base because too many Black men were making good money and living a good life from them. In Detroit, Black men were moving up from Down South by the HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS getting those good paying factory jobs in Ford, GM, and Chrysler and buying nice houses, nice cars, even funding their own small businesses. White men saw this and got ANGRY and JEALOUS and tried to break up the unions and just decided to ship those jobs overseas to Asia and Latin America. Where most of them still remain. In China the government designed an economy where BOTH the educated and uneducated can make a good living for themselves. It used to be that way here....until racism got the better of them. Michel Montvert The current Gov Justice is a billionaire coal mine owner. How many times have they been suckered? How many times have these coal politicians screwed them? Doesn't matter... they'll still vote for them. If they are like most White people in the United States then they aren't really being suckered. They are SACRIFICING themselves to be exploited in order to maintain the system of racism. They know what's happening is not only unethical and against their own self interests as poor and working class citizens. However as long as a Republican governor comes along and pushes the right-wing ideology that Reagan and Trump have become legendary for reviving....they'll get their support. It's not about the money....or atleast it's not their highest priority. It's about preserving the system of racism and protecting it from all threats. Most White Americans will willingly sacrifice themselves as individuals to do this.

Michel Montvert I was teaching about the Iroquois Plan of Peace and there were progressive white teachers hiding around the doorjamb spying on me and reporting to the principal. I found that beyond acknowledging their existence and establishing that they should not be maltreated, any content involving Native culture was problematic. Ofcourse. On top of what you just said about covering up true Native American culture, there is also a movement among many Whites to STEAL Native American culture and identity and this has been going on for decades. If you look at most of the people who claim to represent most of the Native American tribes in political, legal, and public relations issues....it's usually some White person with a feather in their ear and long hair. They may CLAIM Native American heritage but obviously look nothing like the actual original Native Americans they are claiming. ......BTW I think it's time for true Liberals to reform that word "Progressive" because it's been sky-jacked by almost everyone with an agenda that is NOT Progressive. It used to be pretty clear that the Liberal agenda was for AfroAmerican and women's rights, pro-union/labor, and supported programs to help the poor. That was pretty much it and if you supported those things you were Liberal. Then they changed it to "progressive" and are adding 2 or 3 special interests a year to the movement and forcing people to go along with it or be labeled a Trump supporting right-winger.

I agree with the earlier post that said marriage was originally designed by the rich for the rich to consolidate wealth. It was also designed to establish connections between families. frankster The Scriptures are about Righteousness. I study the scriptures for that Purpose I find that Righteousness is very Fruitful and Good. Well you talk about "before the rise of Patriarchy" but according to Genesis of the Bible Adam was meant to "rule over" Eve so that would lead one to believe that if they Bible were true...Patriarchy was established from the beginning. But obviously I don't believe that. I believe society was pretty much egalitarian across the globe before Caucasians started traveling, modifying, and influencing other cultures with their poisonous religious and cultural practices.

Three beautiful well made young sistaz. How lovely. Sorry but I'm more impressed at how attractive and well made they are than their performance....which I'm sure was wonderful as well.

Kenneth But unless we revive organized labor and forge a multiracial working class struggle then nothing will change. We're long over due for another organized labor movement, but one of the problems is most poor and working class people themselves aren't upset enough over their wages and benefits (or lack there of) to motivate them into action. Too many poor and working class people are busy smoking weed and getting deeper and deeper in debt trying to live like the upper classes they see on television or online. The idea that they could be getting shafted and actually could acquire far more wealth on their jobs if they'd only organize and demand it is a thought that rarely enters the minds of most. Just bouncing from one low wage job to the next; getting just enough money to keep the lights on, buy some marijuana, pay the child support......oh and some pizza, tacos, or ramen noodles. As far as a "multiracial working class" struggle......forget about it. Most poor White folks don't mind being poor. They KNOW they're being exploited and agree with it. It's a sacrifice they're willing to make to maintain the system they're upholding. Their only demand is that the Black and Brown POORER than them and are beneath them socio-economically.

I agree with every bit of this. I'm actually surprised to hear that last part from you about Patriarchy, especially given how strongly you defend the Bible.....lol

frankster I agree! It's no longer confusing to one who knows the TRUTH about the Bible and it's origins. Fact that I can verify. About as much as knowing about a man who built an ark to save himself and his family from a flood and ended up getting drunk and naked and cursing his grandson, helps me in this life right now....lol. Yet again, this is where Christians and have gotten it wrond because of the MIS-translations of the Hebrew language. Lucifer son of "the morning" it a totally corrupt translation of the original Hebrew which should read: Helel son of Sahar Helel was a rule in ancient Kena'an (Canaan) and likely was a follower of the Canaanite Deity "Sahar" which is why he is called SON of Sahar. He may have been Sahar's actual son or it may have been an honorary title given to him for accepting the Deity Sahar as his Benefactor. Wrong Information is just a bunch of words communicated. They could be true or false. Data on the other hand is facts and assumed facts. The assumed facts could be false as well but atleast they have been held to a higher standard than just general informal information passed along. By verifying it. I hope that question was rhetorical btw... Because if your religion has you questioning the nature of truth itself, it's already a wrap...lol. Just because a story/theory is "based on" fact, doesn't mean the story/theory ITSELF is a fact. As I said before, some of the "best" lies are based on facts and truths. That's what makes them so effective. And to the naive, inexperiened, and down right foolish...all things are legitimate. Why? Because they don't know any better. What does this have to do with Michael and Gabriel NOT being angels that I pointed out to you in the Old Testament? Did that bit of information I pointed out to you mean ANYTHING to you or did you just brush past it looking for another comeback to get me with? Do you actually SEEK TRUTH or are you just looking to defend your beliefs? You're assuming these things actually took place. I don't. The fact that you would even entertain continuing to believe in a book that "may" have lied or used some form of deception allegedly for some "greater good" is a matter of concern. I ask you again.... Do you really want to know the TRUTH or are you just concerned with defending your beliefs from what you consider to be an attack?

Here we go again with the "increase the taxes" bullshit. This nation doesn't need to increase taxes on ANYBODY....individual or corporate. I know a lot of corporations and rich people are cheating the system but they shouldn't have to. The tax codes should be FAIR and across the board so people aren't motivated to cheat and scam. On top of that and more importantly.... The U.S. Constitution gives the United States Congress the right to print as much money as it needs and assign value to it. They can literally print money out of thin air and assign as much value to it as they want to. Which they DO....when they want to spend money on wars or foreign Aid like to the Ukrain. Any talk about raising taxes and sacrificing when they give hundreds of billions of dollars to the Ukrain or when they were spending trillions to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan??? If they didn't need to raise taxes to fund THAT....why did they need to raise them to fund this???

The same sista running around talking about she wouldn't share HER husband with another woman is often found trying to share ANOTHER WOMAN'S HUSBAND behind her back! I know some women who ONLY mess around with married men. That's part of that immature selfish mindset so many of our people have both male and female.

frankster Theories ARE speculation based on evidence. But atleast you acknowledge that your explanation may not be true. CAN be. "Can" is the key word in your statement. Doesn't mean obvious always or even usually is. Most of the time "obvious" is just what it appears to be....as it is, lol. Ofcourse there is some good in it and some truth in it. I still love reading the book of Proverbs and as I say I love to read the Bible in it's Hebrew form; but I still recognize it for that it is -a man made book and not Holy or Divine or perfect because it still contains errors and falsehood. Even if you don't acknowledge that the ORIGINAL Bible contained errors and falsehood....surely you have to admit the ENGLISH TRANSLATION of it does! No sense in even arguing with someone over scriptures read in the English version. Yeah...and another reason is because those scriptures are erroneous and plain wrong because they were written by men trying to deceive you. Like I said, the OLD TESTAMENT doesn't refer to Michael or Gabriel as "angels". Michael is referred to as a "Sar" in the Hebrew script which is a type of ruler or governor but it's translated in English as "prince". Angels are called "Malak" in the Hebrew script. Ofcourse he wasn't the founder of Judaism. He didn't write the books of the Old Testament either, although they are called the "books of Moses". How could he have written them and they actually REFER TO HIM AND HIS DEATH???? In Deuteronomy 34 we read: " 10.Since that time, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face— 11.no prophet who did all the signs and wonders that the LORD sent Moses to do in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh and to all his officials and all his land," What did he do, record his own death in the book before dying? And "since that time" is obviously talking about the PAST which means that book was written at a MUCH LATER DATE. Come on. This thing was put together much later by some group with an agenda. Much of Judaism is based on a book called the TALMUD and the Talmud is divided in two parts: Babylonian and Palestinian. Moses wasn't around to influence either part of the Talmud. Judaism INCORPORATES some of the teachings of Moses and it's far different from what Moses taught. Infact, much of the Pentateuch or "Books of Moses" were put together in Babylon as well as I just alluded to earlier and that's where they got much of their stories. You ask what religion they were practicing prior to Babylonian Capitivity? I'm not sure but I have two answers: Answer #1 According to the Bible they followed the teachings of Moses. I'm not sure it was given an actual name, but according to the Bible they did follow the teachings of Moses and the law right up to their captivity. I don't believe this by the way...but you do so I offer it as an explanation. Answer #2 As I said, I don't believe the captivity ever took place. I believe Jews actually CAME FROM Babylon. I believe...based on personal research from various historians....that a group of PERSIANS IN BABYLON took some of the teachings of Zoroasterism and mixed it with some of the teachings of Babylonian religions and came up with a NEW religion called Judaism and proceeded to write and literally MAKE UP their own past to justify why they went to Palestine to build a temple. I can back that up with a few sources btw..... As I said before, I don't believe any of this actually happened. I believe they made it up. The ancient Egyptians and Babylonians in which those stories were based in show no records of Jews being held captive in those regions. The people of those areas TODAY believe in it simply because most of them are Muslim, Christian, and Jewish so it's part of their religious scripture to believe in it. But as far as ancient writings and hieroglyphs....no record. Could it have happened? Yes. But I simply don't believe it and neither do most scholars.

frankster I never said ALL of the Bible was allegory. It contains many stories, some are allegorical, some are lies, some are truth. My thing is....since we don't have a clear legend or key to understanding CLEARLY which is which....why place our faith in such a confusing book? But to answer your question........... Well first of all let's back up and get an understanding when we're talking about HISTORY. I criticize the Bible a lot but I'm actually critical to a certain extent of MOST historical claims whether they be religious or non-religious. Why? Because I've learned not to put too much trust in things that I DIDN'T DOCUMENT MYSELF by my own observation or the observation of S/someone trust. New information about certain things in history are constantly coming out every day. Some of it is true, some of it is false, and some of it we just have no clue as to it's validity one way or the other. Because of this I can't put too much faith in anything written by the hands of men. Don't get me wrong..... I'm not saying I don't believe ANY history or believe ALL of history, but it's more like I don't accept it 100% or reject it 100% if you understand what I'm saying. Some things I believe more than other based on evidence and the preponderance of it, but my mind is open for new evidence and proof also. Now if you understand my position, having said that...... Based on various sources I believe a ruler of ancient Canaan named Helel was real. Not only does the Hebrew Bible speak of him but other sources do. He's not the only ruler there were others mentioned in the Bible as well as other sources. Lucifer is a TITLE. A Roman title. Did it belong to one particular being or did several beings wear that title? I have no idea. But Lucifer simply means "light bearer". It is my SPECULATION that the Roman "Lucifer" is related to the Greek "Prometheus" who allegedly took fire/knowledge (light) to mankind against the will of the "gods" and was punished. This too was an allegory and the Romans probably got it from the Greeks. And that's your right to do so if you wish. As for me, if you want ME to accept a book as being of God and Divine then it needs to be 100% truth with absolutely NO falsehood in it. It can obviously contain things that I don't understand, but if I see BLATANT falsehood....it's a wrap. I'll regulate it to the shelf with the other fictional books. I've given you several falsehood in the Bible in the form of contradictions but you didn't accept them as false and tried to rationalize them. No doubt if I give you several or even 100 more (and I can) you'd do the same thing. Your mind is made up to accept the Bible right now. At this point we're just having a nice dialog, lol. You're saying the "The Bible" is a small fraction of the Scriptures as if you're speaking of the entire book. Are you saying that there is a larger book somewhere in which the entire Bible is found "inside" other scriptures in which it was taken from? I agree. Often times it is because you're closer to the truth (if there is any in that Source) and closer to the true intention of the Author and the message They were conveying. I agree that MUCH of the Old and New Testaments were taken from older sources and stories circulating around the Middle East at that time and compiled into a new book we now call "The Bible. Much of the Old Testament was compiled in Babylon. Much of the New Testament was compiled in Rome. However I won't call it "old knowledge" or knowlege period. It's INFORMATION....stories....that could be true OR false. In order for it to be "knowledge" it first has to be TRUE.