Pioneer1

🥴 -Glad to be a catalyst for "Black Unity" in this thread. Apparently I've brought everybody together in agreement.

PREACH!!!!! We actually need to play by OUR OWN rules instead of theirs. In some ways things were better for our people in the 50s and 60s than they are today. Atleast we all could CLEARLY see who the enemy is and had more unity since most of us were in the same boat.

Well.....lol A lot of AfroAmerican women swear up and down that THEY would never be sister-wives and share a husband so......🤷‍♂️

ProfD Yeah......🤷‍♂️........I guess?

ProfD This is why I said a lot of our people are tired of waiting and figure their best bet it to just sell out and join the other team for whatever it's worth, rather than continue to wait. Atleast when it comes to serving White folks and kissing up to them, you usually get SOMETHING...lol. It may not be everything you asked for. It may be everything you asked for ALONG WITH a whole lot of shit you DIDN'T ask for and didn't expect. But usually you'll get SOME goodies if you're a flunky for the White folks. What do you get fighting for and being loyal to most Black folks? ....besides a hard time? ....or chased down the street if the WRONG nigga sees you and think you got something on you. In MY past experiences I've gotten a LOT of benefits for fighting racism and fighting on behalf of Black people....but most of those benefits I got didn't COME FROM Black people. They came from The Divine. In many cases the Black folks I was fighting for directly didn't give me shit. But I still fought for them knowing this. But I can't expect all Black people to do this. Fighting for my people is a passion of mine and has been since I was a child and my Faith has been strengthened a lot from past experiences. They help push me forward and keep me going. It's a Life Purpose so I can't stop doing it. However from that sister or brother who isn't cut like that and looks at things from not just a logical and selfish point of view but even an emotional point of view....I can see how simply getting with the White folks and trying their best to forget about their own would be a more attractive option.

@Chevdove Ok........

Well.... I wasn't expecting THAT response. @Chevdove I respectfully ask you, was all of that really necessary?

I don't know what the brother's (Marty) true aim is in dropping this thread and asking us to participate in his battle, however..... This subject is a little dear to me because both on jobs and in local politics I've often found myself being the only person initially fighting back against racism in the area. I notice a problem. And it seems like I'm usually the FIRST one to notice the problem! Whether it's on a job or in a city, you have Negroes who've been there for YEARS grinning and talking trash with toothpicks in their mouths and gold chains on their necks totally oblivious to the blatantly racist situation going on around them that I IMMEDIATELY pick up on and have a problem with. I ask some of these fools do they see what I'm seeing and they deny it....until they're a victim of it either by getting fired, put in jail, or humiliated by a White "superior". Then all of a sudden they notice a problem and want to cry racism and slob at the mouth looking for help. "Why dey do me like dat??? Man...dat's some racist bullshit!" It's all good as long as THEY aren't a victim of racism personally. Fuck what some other Black person is going through....it's all about them and what THEY experience. If THEY didn't go through it....it can't be true. Usually there are a few riders with me or I'll be with them if they were the first to notice something and speak out, but often times you're by yourself trying to weigh your options. Fighting racism alone is one thing. Fighting racism alone with a bunch of niggas standing around with their eyes bucked looking at you and wondering what "your" problem is instead of helping you is another level though. "What's wrong with THAT nigga?" "Why he in the office yelling and pointing his fingers embarassing us????" "Yeah but he right though....some racist shit be happening around here" "Man, he need to go on somewhere and just find another job because...." "Man, I need this job and he go fuck it up for everybody with all that race shit!" It feels so good when you finally do win and get your trophy but the road along the way......shit.

ProfD I wouldn't consider it a COMPLETE waste of time and energy to force yourself into positions of power and wealth inside White owned establishments from an INDIVIDUAL perspective. Now as a community ofcourse, our time would be much better spent uniting like minds and building our own; however as I'm reminded constantly....although this is highly possible and will be done some day...it's still wishful and hopeful thinking. So as an INDIVIDUAL you do what you have to do or want to do to get what you want in this life while you're living. If I'm a Black man who wants to live the "good life" of corporate America enjoying the wealth and all of the other amenities that come with wealth and high positions, it would benefit me more to just go ahead and fight (or beg if necessary) my way into the ranks of the elite than wait on niggas to get it together, lol. "I refuse to sell out! I'm still waiting on niggas to unite and build something." I suspect that's why the sell-out rate is so high. Some of our people are tired of waiting on niggas to get it together and unite and build their own collectively and see their best bet is to just grin up in them White folks faces and get as much as they can WHILE they can, lol.

What????? Those statistics are MORE than amazing, they're UNBELIEVABLE....literally. Biden's been in office for about a year and a half now and you're telling me that rape has TRIPLED in the Atlanta area in that small amount of time? Man, who put that info out? You provided a link but it was to Walker's campaign, not some reputable source for that stat. If I were to look at this in context, it sounds like something the Walker Campaign put out to scare people into voting for him and if they have no official statistics to verify it then it's really an insult to the intelligence of the people....especially Black people as that's who it's geared towards....of the Atlanta area to think that you can just say that without it being examined or challenged.

frankster Lucifer was a made-up term that was put in the English translation to deceive the readers. If you read the original Hebrew the name used was "Helel" and it was the name of a king or ruler of a region of ancient Canaan. Early Christians purposely changed and mis-interpreted the name (like they did a lot of the Bible) into this "Lucifer" business and then proceeded to make an entire persona surrounding him when it was really an ancient king. Ok, thank you for FINALLY answering the question...lol There's no such thing as "false to you" or "truth to me". Either something is TRUE or it's FALSE. If you don't know, then say you don't know or you're not sure but there is no "true to me". If it's proven to be false....it's false. You can ACCEPT falsehood and BELIEVE IN falsehood if you like, but that's not going to change falsehood to truth. Your scriptures say that God is not the author of confusion. Should I take that as He didn't make confusion? Or does it have another meaning? Those aren't the Bible. Those are scriptures that contain some of the same stories the Bible contains, but they aren't the Bible. "Source material" isn't the same as the book itself. YOU are made up of atoms and molecules. They are your "source material"...but you aren't as old as atoms and molecules itself. As I said earlier, the Bible is COMPILED of earlier scripture that had been circulating around the Middle East for centuries. That's old knowledge. So basically you SPECULATED that this was the reason those two different scriptures gave different accounts on who Joseph's father really was. The most obvious answer is that it's a contradiction, but you don't want to accept or believe that so your mind forces you to come up with a way to explain it so that it makes sense to you. This is what I mean when people accept the Bible as some "Divine" book. Once you go down that road you have to accept it at 100%. Even in the face of an obvious contradiction you cannot accept it as such but must wait and hope for a "deeper understanding" of it. Nor sure, but at any rate...the Old Testament doesn't call Michael or Gabriel "angels". The only time you read of them having this title is in the New Testament. Judaism wasn't started in Egypt, it was started in Babylon...the same place the Jews came from. It may contain CERTAIN RITUALS and SCRIPTS that were also found in ancient Egypt (and there's a good reason for that) but Judaism itself wasn't founded in Egypt or Palestine. Judaism didn't come from Moses by the way..... What Moses taught wasn't Judaism and even when you read the Old Testament you don't find the term "Judaism" in it. It came from Babylon and is a mixture of some of Moses' teachings with some Babylonian beliefs and some Persian/Zoroastrian teachings. Isn't it funny how these "inspired" religions and scriptures seem to grow and expand as the culture and sophistication of humans grow and expands in the region????

I have mixed feelings about situations like these..... On the one hand I support Elijah Muhammad's advice for us to do for self and establish our own businesses and employ ourselves so we don't have to deal with the racism and other forms of discrimination as well as the THEIVERY that goes on in many White corporations where a Black man may come up with a great idea but White people will PRETEND to dismiss it only to steal it and use it later on.....we were told not to work for them but to work for ourselves. However on the other hand, as long as we're living in the United States in a multi-racial society we need to figure out a way to not only get along with other races but force them to recognize and respect our contribution and ability to manage and progress the work place. I don't like the idea of Asians and Latinos being able to just dance right into this nation and into jobs that AFRO-AMERICANS had to fight to open up! Our ForeFathers and ForeMothers fought for those jobs and the opportunity to get them! So WE should be the ones who get first dibs at those jobs, not Latinos, Arabs, Asians, and other immigrants. I think the brother should fight it all the way and even take them to court if he has to because those jobs don't "belong" to the managers. They belong either to the owners or the shareholders....that's who literally OWNS the company. So they don't have a moral or legal right to sit up and deny people opportunities that they didn't give themselves.

ProfD Then you'll have to blame Prince and Michael Jackson too....lol. They...and if you really want to go back in time Switch (with the DeBarges).... started Black America on the road of effeminizing men with their high pitched singing and hair straightening personas.

Chev Please put a timeline to what you are talking about. What do you mean a "timeline"? Few dates are given in history because different cultures use different calendars and modes of calculating time. However the real Moses of history went into the Caucasus to civilize the savages about 4000 years ago. Your version of 'Moses' is not Biblical. Correct. Because the Bible isn't a factual or historically correct book. I'm talking about the HISTORIC Moses/Muse, not the Biblical one. The Exodus occurred after 400+ years of 'hard bondage', and not about mountain people, savage people eating raw meat up in the mountains. Well, most of the evidence points to the "exodus" of the Bible NEVER having occurred period. I know you speak about these mountain people Pioneer but you know, I do not refer to that. When you talk about CAUCASIANS in general at that time, you're talking about "mountain people".

Chev Violence is is so high and out of control in the United States today that they have to constantly change and re-arrange the definitions to keep up with what's happening in the streets and make this nation NOT look as barbaric as it really is. Michael Montvert because the white cops simply fear blacks more than they fear whites. Is it because they really "fear" Blacks or is it a natural and innate hatred that they sometimes can't control? Whites in this nation have been around Blacks long enough, many of them pretty much know Black people and how much of a threat we may or may not pose to them. So I don't completely buy that they were in fear for their lives. I think it's a convenient excuse many of them use so as to not look so cold blooded. Now this is not an "institutionalized" phenomenon in the sense that there is some training to this effect, or rules governing it, but it is a consistent pattern. and it is institutionalized in the sense that much in our culture TEACHES people that blacks are: emotional, irrational, angry, volatile, violent. amoral, etc. his is a reversal of the usual reaction by whites, apparently, who "instinctively" (due to cultural training/brainwash, really) fear black people. You're right and that's PART of it. But some of it is just natural and innate. I agree with your initial assessment of it being "instinct" because I believe most Whites have an innate hatred for and sense of superiority over Black people that they have to actually work to overcome. Instead of being taught TO hate...I think most Whites have to be taught NOT to hate.

PREACH! I've been saying this for decades. The Democrat Party is a FAKE opposition party or "controlled" opposition is what they really are. Republican light. We need a real Progressive in office like one of my favorite Presidents Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

frankster Thank you for reminding me of our earlier interaction. Unfortunately however, for purposes of clarity I have to again repeat my question: Do you believe The Divine has ever communicated something false to human beings? I'm not asking you CAN The Divine do it, I'm asking you HAS The Divine ever done it....to your knowledge? I'd appreciate a clear and concise affirmative or negative to the above in your next response. I didn't say that to dismiss all the other information the Bible offers us. I'm simply saying that what "matters" is what's relevant. We're having a conversation about whether the Bible contains falsehood so things that are "irrelevant" to that subject doesn't matter as much TO that subject of the discussion, that's all. I agree with the former and respect the latter! It's good enough for someone who isn't as concerned about the story actually being TRUE as they are of some "message" it may contain for the reader. But I believe in Truth. That is the first litmus test any information I receive must pass before I accept it. So when we read 1 Corinthians 14:33 "For God is not the author of confusion" According to THAT scripture, confusion didn't come from God. So is it true that "all" things were made by Him? That's not accurate. The Bible hasn't been around several thousand years. Infact, the Bible (any Bible you choose from) hasn't even been around 2000 years. ALL truths withstand the test of time. Truth is truth no matter what it is found and it doesn't change unless the circumstances it refers to changes. Understood. Now...... Can you show me the scripture in the Bible that states this was the case? ....that Joseph's father Jacob passed away and Heli took over? I don't remember reading it and I'd like to know where you got it from. That's your OPINION of it's purpose. Others believe and insist it has another purpose. Constantine and the Roman Empire used the Bible to unite the wild warring tribes of Europe Slave masters used the Bible as a purpose to keep the slaves docile while being oppressed. Differerent people had different purposes for the Bible. Nice try but...I said THIS SCRIPTURE....not the New Testament. I made it clear earlier in our conversation that the OLD TESTAMENT didn't name Gabriel and Michael as angels. That concept came LATER after the Jews were sent to Jerusalem when the New Testament starts. Much of the theology of modern Judaism and even much of Christianity came from period when the Jews were in Babylon and learn a lot from the Persians who were Zoroastrians. You should have given it a rest a few posts back, lol. The definition of the name "Israel" is pretty clear. That aspect of the argument has a positive period behind it.

Chev But perhaps one day, I hope that our future generation will benefit from it and no matter how this kind of information goes 'unread', I strongly believe that it will resurface one day. But I'd like YOU to get the credit for it instead of someone else who discovers it and brings it back into general circulation as "their own" ideas and perspectives. So much in the world was really invented by Black people but the credit was stolen by White people who like ProfD says "codify" it after stealing it so they can legally claim YOUR discoveries as their own. Del It is also important to set the rules of engagement: no ad hominem attacks; agreed upon definitions of key terms of subject being discussed; rational arguments especially for highly subjective topics. I agree. But I think there should be a clear separation between a more liberal free-for-all forum such as this one and one where the standards are higher and the rules are more strict. First of all those rules should be clearly posted for everyone who would like to engage in that forum to read and abide by.

I think the only reason they don't openly identify with the Nazi party is because it may be illegal. They are obviously a right-wing fascist party and as close to the Nazi party as you can legally get in the United States.

You may be joking, but actually you don't know how close to the truth you are! Moses knew the savages couldn't follow ALL of the laws that make a human being complete because THEY were incomplete themselves. They weren't the ORIGINAL man....just a "replica" or de-colorized copy of him. So he had to be held to a lower standard. You can't go up to a savage who's been born and raised eating raw meat all of his life and get him to eat only fruits and berries. You have to give him laws and rules that GRADUALLY modify his diet generation by generation until his kind becomes more refined. So you start by telling him that if he's gonna eat the meat, atleast don't eat ROTTEN meat. "Well, it's already dead....so I ain't gotta kill it. Geez what's the problem????" And if he's gonna eat the meat, atleast cook it to kill the germs inside of it. Shave your beard, trim your nails, wash that funk off you atleat once a week (Saturday night or early Sunday morning...lol). You have to GRADUALLY civilize the savage over a period of time. Look at the laws in the book of Leviticus in the Bible ( @frankster ) and you'll see a set of laws designed to turn a savage people into a civilized society.

ProfD Remember Sisqo of Dru Hill? "Sleepin' in my bed Messin' with my head Takin' my plaaaaaace..." We thought the nigga was just weird back in the 90s, but he'd fit right in today!

Marty1960 I have a few questions for you....... First of all you said you're "old" and a victim of age discrimination. How old are you? Is 1960 the year you were born? Also, are there other Black people at your job? I'm not talking about janitors or the security guard at the front desk but in professional positions?

frankster ?? Not sure what that was in response to however allow me to ask you the question again: Do you believe The Divine has ever communicated something false to human beings? It doesn't matter who named her that, the point is it's in the Bible and it's FALSE. It's false information. Maybe YOU have to wrestle with them, but I've overcome that struggle a LONG time ago when I finally accepted that the Bible was NOT a Divine book but a script written from the minds of men. Just because The Divine is Present, doesn't mean They brought everything into existence. Furthermore, atoms are the building blocks (that we know so far) of much of the PHYSICAL REALITY. But there is a much much more vast SPIRITUAL REALITY and we have no clue as to what That is made of. You don't even know what material your own thoughts are made of. And just like the Bible, they too are books that often consist of both true and false information. But unlike the Bible, most of us accept that they often contain false and incorrect information. Naaaw buddy, don't put that on "The Divine"...lol. The Divine didn't write the 4 Gospels. They were written by MEN and those men were given the identities of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Now in Matthew 1:16 it says: …and Jacob the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ. But in Luke 3:23 it says: Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli, One so-called "inspired" scripture claims Jacob was the father of Joseph and another so-called "inspired" scripture claims he was Heli. Who is right, because BOTH of them can't be? That's not an "opinion" or "perspective" but a straight up contradiction. Yeah, and that was it's purpose...to help unite Europeans. Not save souls or bring peace and justice to the world; but further civilize and empower White folks through a sense of unity. Ok, and WHERE is Gabriel mentioned as an Angel in this scripture???? There is no evidence that "Israel" has more than one meaning. All of the evidence we have point to it only having ONE meaning. Your explanations of what the word "really" means on an "esoteric level" is mere fanciful thinking and speculation.

@Chevdove Yes, most of the 'Black' doctors that I've been too are either African or from India. There's a reason for that. Africans and Indians tend to be more academics-oriented than AfroAmericans because they have more trust in the Western system. You talk to them about racism and it's like talking a foreign language. They squint their eyes and scratch their heads trying to figure out what you mean..lol. Compared with AfroAmericans...Africans (atleast the ones who come to the West) tend to be far more pursuant of Western education and the heights of our career fields. Troy If some of the 42 Negative Confessions or Laws of Ma'at sound familiar and like the 10 Commandments of the Bible, there's a good reasons for that! When Moses went up into the mountains of the Caucasus to civilize that savage Caucasian...he took many of the Egyptian books of knowledge and wisdom with him and took bits of information from those books to impart to the wild Caucasians to give them civility and humanity.

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