Pioneer1

I'm a little disappointed with the AfroAmerican leadership in Atlanta in general. The Atlanta area is an AfroAmerican METROPOLIS and a power house of Black economic, academic, and political influence....yet those negroes down there sit up and let racist Caucasians in the Republican party RULE over Georgia with an iron fist. I don't understand it. The South itself is nearly half Black in terms of population, yet the racist Republican party wields so much political influence down there it's unbelievable. How in the hell are they STILL able to fly the Confederate battle flag in places like Georgia and Mississippi and even have it in their state flags with all those millions of Black folks down there.....unless many of them are just dumb as hell.

I'm sorry to hear this. I don't recall any exchanges with the brother, but I did hear Troy mention him from time to time. I hope he's at peace right now.

It felt good arguing in FAVOR of a position I'm actually against, so I decided to take up another one. I'm not a feminist, but I'll attempt.....for argument's sake....to take the position of Black feminists or womanists and say that Black men are just too sexist. When it comes to sisters wearing their hair naturally, the greatest opposition Black women face doesn't come from White men in the work place who usually know better than to make a comment.....but from Black men at home and in the community who often times don't want to date a "natural" woman and are often very blunt about making this known. I've also noticed that the only time most Black men are willing to stay at home and help do the dishes, clean the house, and watch the children is when he's UNEMPLOYED and doesn't have much of a choice.....outside of that, most brothers grow up thinking it's the woman's job to do this instead of a shared responsibility. Finally we have Jay-Z .....a Black rapper (among thousands of others) has MADE A LIVING calling women bitches and ho's and bragging about how he has sex with them and uses them and even proudly refers to himself as "pimp". His reward for this near lifetime of misogynistic behavior is his recently being crowned raps first BILLIONAIRE. Can not Black men see that many of them are (and have been since before the ending of slavery) treating Black women with the same contempt and disrespect that they so furiously condemn Whites, Asians, and others for showing them? Lauryn Hill once famously said: How you gonna win if you ain't right within?

Troy It depended upon how you define "financially secure?" I'm sure you'd agree it is a FAR cry from the ministers who have private jets, a fleet of cars, and huge mansions. Maybe THAT'S what they needed for THEM to feel secure and that they've attained THEIR goal or blessing. Perhaps the minister with the mansion may have grew up in a shack and swore that if he ever we blessed to "make it" he would buy the biggest mansion he could afford. Perhaps another was a little boy who couldn't even afford a bike to ride but would look up at planes flying over his head and promised himself he'd own one of THEM one day. Just because YOU don't want these things why condemn them for wanting to live out their dream? Isn't it a BLESSING to live out your dreams? Yes, I've seen a broke brother who was happy and at peace. I'm one. That does not mean that I don't have challenges, like everyone else, but I know money can't bring happiness. MAN SHUT UP YOU KNOW YOU AIN'T BROKE....lol. My argument is against though that exploit their congregations for monetary gain To "exploit" means to ab-use or use incorrectly. To take advantage of. If they are voluntarily giving those preachers their money and getting emotional satisfaction as well as what they BELIEVE to be spiritual satisfaction., hope, and happiness from that church.....is it really exploitation? These people are getting HOPE and HAPPINESS (a few of your precious values you spoke of) from that man and his church! So perhaps it's fair exchange Kind of like how a patient pays their counselor for comforting conversation and good advice. often imporveshing these hapless victims -- who were just seeking peace and spiritual enlightenment. I'll be honest with you...... I honestly don't know anyone who BECAME poor from dealing with a lying pimping preacher. Most of those who ARE poor and giving money to these types were ALREADY poor and poorly educated to begin with so they didn't have a hell of a long way to fall. But again, what you may be missing is the fact that many of these people are receiving EMOTIONAL satisfaction and hope....not to mention a place to socialize and meet friends and potential marriage partners....one of the main reasons many people go to church for in the first place. Perhaps you are focusing too much and putting too much responsibility on the preachers and what THEY should be doing and not enough on these people and what they're GETTING already in return. The vast majority of these followers are adults who are NOT retarded can clearly make their own decisions as to how to spend their money. You (and Harry....lol) act as if these preachers are breaking into elementary schools and brainwashing children into signing contracts and stealing their lunch money. These are adults who are doing what they do for their own personal reasons whether we agree with them or not. I can't BELIEVE I'm sitting up here trying to defend these jack-legs....lol. But it's a fun excercise! I may take the opposite side of another argument I don't necessarily agree with just for the fun of it.

Troy So.... you believe White folks are trying to destroy the black community with alcohol, tobacco, the feminization of men and other things because they are largely immune to these things? Well....... Let us set to the side who I "believe" is behind these problems that you mentioned. Let us also set to the side who else is being negatively affected by those problems. The FACT is......those problems that you mentioned like drugs, alcohol, and sexual confusion ARE causing massive destabilization in many BLACK communities both in America and abroad regardless as to it's source. Would you not agree? Your argument seems to be, as long as it negatively affects them also....they can't be the source of it. As if murder-suicide doesn't exist. We could combat this by going on the offense. Let's start by denying climate change and increase our carbon foot prints. The increased exposure to the sun would give white folks skin cancer. We could kill all the cows so that they would die of calcium deficiency. We could stop play sports and making music and they would die from boredom. We could all become opioid dealers and let them all OD -- and become rich at the same time Lol, before doing all that you might wanna start by doing something Martin L. King and Malik Shabazz tried to do -first UNITE Black people and get them to do something without arguing and squabbling among eachother.

Troy Dude you are really fixated on financial wealth as one if life's ultimate goals huh? There is also health, happiness, spirituality, peace, and other things that money can't buy. These are some of the things that a spiritual leader should help others obtain. Health, happiness, and peace are PART of one's wealth.....along WITH being finanically secure. Have you ever seen a BROKE brutha who was happy and at peace? A broke ass nigga is liable to destroy himself, you, and anybody else crazy enough to live around him....lol. You say money can't by these things but a sick person who can't afford to buy their medicine or pay for their operation may beg to differ with you. Money is an important COMPONENT of a wholistic life of success and happiness. Now I'm not defending them or their behavior, nor would I give them money, but I'm entertaining the counter-argument some may offer you.......... The Christian preacher may argue back that he IS trying to help others attain those values that you listed by pushing the message to his congregation that if they would simply put their faith in and accept Christ, THEY TOO will attain wealth, happiness, spirituality, everlasting life, ect..... But YOUR argument isn't against his message or it's validity, but against his LIFESTYLE. Could it be that your FOCUS is off? Could it be that instead of focusing on how the messenger is living, shouldn't the focus be on the validity of the message itself and whether or not the adherents of "the word" are attaining the own success? If my goal is to become spiritually at peace and the pastor of the church I go to helps me to attain that....why should I concern myself with how big HIS house is or how nice HIS car is? I'm just saying........ For agument's sake ofcourse, lol.

Troy But everthing you wrote is being done in the white community too -- argurable moreseo. I don't see how you can justify that this happening solely to destroy Black people. White people have been drinking alcohol for thousands of years and some of the biggest drunks in Europe's history were able to rule kingdoms, lead militaries, build great buildings.....ect. They introduced the Native Americans to alcohol and within a few generations it DESTROYED their civilizations, their family structures, and to this very day many of them are still livng on reservations suffering from poverty, suicide, and other negative effects from alcoholism. Just because White people engage in a particular behavior and it doesn't seem to harm them doesn't mean it's good for us or anyone else besides them.

Troy It's not a conspiracy, they are openly promoting transgenderism in the media as well as in politics and aiming it toward people of color. They're passing laws to acknowledge it and the main stream media in both commercials as well as in the news is promoting it. There is no need to find and destroy people who are clearly more powerful than you. You can look for them, but when you find them what can you as an individual do to defeat them? Nearly every person of color of atleast average intelligence is aware of White Domination on some level either consciously or subconsciously and have their own ways of dealing with it. Some actively fight against it, and others go along with it and try to get as much benefit as they can out of a system they feel they can do nothing about. It's like a little kid living in an abusive household......when Daddy is drunk and angry you learn to stay out of his way and survive as best you can and HOPE he doesn't kill you before you get old enough to leave that situation. Nothing is guaranteed, but if you can pass along helpful information to help your brothers or sisters and keep THEM from getting hurt or killed that would be the correct thing to do.

Troy But neither the Bible nor Christian theology claims the goal of Jesus WAS to be wealthy. According to Christian theology, the goal of Jesus was to come to die for the sins of humanity.....not acquire wealth. And if the Bible is correct then he accomplished HIS goal/mission. But that was the goal/mission for HIM......not his preachers, ministers, other Christians, or even the disciples. The goal of most people.....Christian or not.....is NOT to die for the sins of humanity but to be wealthy and successful. Preachers are human beings and besides other desires most of them want wealth and prosperity like everyone else. So if wealth is atleast ONE of their goals.....and they're accomplishing it.....then wouldn't that success be a major sign of them actually being blessed? Further, if I were a Christian and saw my pastor accumulating huge amounts of wealth that was being GIVEN to him and was successful in his ministry and I saw no evidence that he was breaking any Christian rules, should I not take that as evidence of him being blessed and be encouraged to follow his lead in hopes I may enjoy similar blessings and successes? Why should I condemn him and bash him for living a life that he promised we WOULD enjoy if we joined his church and accepted his message? If anything, I would look at the poor preacher and wonder why I should follow him.

Chev people from AFrica do not really say that much about their homeland, at least not to me Probably because you don't pry it out of them like I do, lol. When I meet Africans, I usually try to pry as much information out of them as I can as well as give them a REAL history of the AfroAmerican experience. Troy I was in Belgium. My razor wasn't that old, maybe only a couple years. I'm not sure what the voltage was but I know the plug fit the outlet just fine and it worked just fine for the first couple minutes....then all of a sudden: ZZZZZZZZZZZRRRRRRRR...the shit stopped, lol. I ran around the hotel with half a beard until I got to the front desk to complain and they explained to me what may have happened. As far as procreating as soon as one's hunger is satisfied....... It seems like a serious issue of SHORT TERM thinking. Maybe the idea of a government LIMITING births to only one child per family (if that) until the nation or atleast the community is able to ADEQUATELY support it's population isn't such a bad idea. If people aren't responsible enough to do it themselves, perhaps they need some sort of superior law that compels them to for their own good. I suspect that more so than human nature being at play here, it's more of an issue of CULTURE. Many cultures believe that they were put on the planet to have as many children as they possibly can with little regard as to how they'll b able to take care of them. Other cultures believe you should have as many children as you possibly can to help with farming and care giving.

First of all I don't support people who tell lies ON The Supreme Being nor do I support people telling lies in the NAME OF The Supreme Being.....I want to get that straight. However for the sake of a nice discussion................... Who's to say that many of these wealthy preachers AREN'T being blessed as they claim? If you....as an individual...are making a good living dressing up in fine clothes every day, ride around in expensive cars, live in mansions, and get people from all over the world to send you millions of dollars a year doing what you love to do -is that not a blessing? You are blessed with money, smarts, and probably a lot of charisma. What would it look like for you to run around preaching the gospel and you're broke and homeless on the street and have to beg for a meal half the time?

Troy I'm not sure why the comsuner product companies take unnecessary risks, like this, with their advertising. Gillette is a business, and if their objective is to make money and those who are promoting the normalization of sexual perversion is paying them HUGE amounts of money to promote it in their advertising...then it's not much of a risk. They are actually following sound business practice by doing what makes them money. Infact, the money being given to them by those promoting this nonsense is probably more than what they'd get from those who would be turned off by it. Neely Fuller Jr. said that the White Supremacists are very powerful and wealthy and they'll spend tons of money to push their agendas. Look at how much money they put into "gangsta rap". He also says that one of the tricks of White Supremacy is to sexually CONFUSE Black people and have them confused about who is a man, who is a woman, and what their purposes are. So the idea that White Supremacists both outside of Gillette as well as those working for Gillete would spend millions of dollars to push the image of a Black "transgender" around the world wouldn't be far fetched if it's part of their agenda to cause mass confusion.

Troy The larger majority of Black people seem to be lactose intolerant while the large majority of White people do not seem to be. There must be a genetic reason for this. I'm not sure about Native Americans or East Asians but I haven't heard of their traditional cultures involving milk or other dairy products in their traditional diets. I thought Sylvia's was supposed to be "the spot" in Harlem....lol. I haven't actually eaten there. I was about to years ago but the line was so long it was all the way outside and I had a plane to catch so I just skipped it. Del Where's the Soul in a Black community? It WAS in the poverty and struggle. Historically speaking, the most tight knit and FLAVORFUL communities are those with a high level of poverty (NOT destitution) and working class populations densely packed together. No matter where you go on the planet despite the nation, this type of grind FORCES people in the community to be creative and cooperate with eachother and this is where you'll find the best music and the best food. I didn't grow up in poverty but the neighborhood I grew up in had FLAVOR. It had CHARACTERS in it kind of like Fat Albert and his gang.....lol. Dudes with buck-teeth, boys who stuttered, old women who'd sit on the porch all day and watch everything that went on on the block, and loud music playing from people's houses. As boys we used to "come get" eachother and MAKE you leave the house unless you were "on punishment" (something you rarely hear today). You drive down most Black neighborhoods today and you don't see too much of that.

Chev 　 I don't know @Pioneer1 but, I think that this is a bigger picture than what we are seeing over here in America. I do agree that we have to blame ourselves for this but also, the Colonial Movement has a lot to play in what has happened in Africa. How can people be so famished over there when the massive TRADE EXPEDITIONS have taken place over there? Africa is in the sun belt and for this reason, it has produced a wealth of substance. It is like the bread basket for the world. So, if African people have been duped into being 'a third world' class, this is a serious paradox. You're right, we who haven't been there don't really KNOW what's going on in Africa. Most of the information we're getting from the media has a racial and political bias to it. And even when you get information directly from the people who are FROM there, they seem to withhold certain information. Just like when I went to Europe years ago...... All of the movies I saw about Europe. All of the books I read. All the research I did. All the people I talked to FROM there as well as the people who visited there. ....and there STILL were many things that were left out and I didn't find out until I actually WENT there myself and was witness to it. For example, I didn't realize that in Europe they use a different type of electricity than they do in America and you need an adaptor! I didn't find out until I was shaving and it ruined my electric razor!!!!!!! No one told me this or even talked about it until AFTER I came back. And there were many other instances. So my point is, despite what all the "experts" say and all the different varying and often contradictory information we get from people who are from there.....untill we can really go there and see for ourselves what's going on we really don't know. Troy It is just human nature. We are genetically wired to have sex and procreate. Our very survival as a species demands that we do this. They must not be hungry enough then; because when I'm really hungry I don't even think about sex...lol. If I were very wealthy, I'd defintely adopt some Black boys. It's funny you say that. Me......for some reason I thought it would be cool to have just a few boys (maybe two just incase the oldest turns out to be a "Fredo Corleone" type....lol) but a LOT of daughters who I would spoil like princesses. But I really do think more wealthy AfroAmericans should adopt Black children (and maybe even Asian and brown skinned Latino children) and bring them back to America. Besides it just being the right thing to do, it would definately help our image abroad.

Speak of the devil....... While we were discussing Black women being encouraged to be BOTH masculine and lesbian, while waiting on a response I left the site for a minute to check up on some news and ran across THIS article: New Gillette ad shows dad giving transgender son a lesson on shaving In a first, the men's grooming brand featured a Canadian artist and his father sharing a first shave moment https://thegrio.com/2019/05/27/gilette-ad-transgender-shaving/

Troy I know you don't believe in the concept of race, but what I've found out years ago was that we as people of African descent CAN NOT eat everything Whites and East Asians eat. Many East Asians can eat just one bowl of rice with a few pickles slices in it and work all damn day. I've worked with White people who live off of ramen noodles and Monster energy drinks AND drink every night and still show up to work on time, do their jobs, and even think straight enough to practice racism. I don't know of any AfroAmerican who can live that same lifestyle without getting sick. I'm not sure what these other people are made out of but our people can't eat like them and get the same results. Our people need fruits and vegetables and lean meat to stay healthy and think properly.

OK, here's a clip of Neely Fuller Jr. making his assertion and although he doesn't use the term "lesbian" but rather uses the term "masculine" he's clearly talking about sexual relationships between the women:

Troy I'm going to have to go over some of the videos I have of Mr. Fuller where he says this exactly and post it here, but he DID say this. Don't say it's "crazy", because 50 years ago the idea that those in government would flood the AfroAmerican community with drugs to destabilize it would sound "crazy" to some people also! 　 OK, I apologize for the confusion so let me first answer your questions and then see if I can clarify my position a bit............... What does "masculine woman" mean? A woman who ACTS like a man in terms of her thinking and behavior. The way she walks, sits, uses her hands when she talks, body language, ect...... A physically fit women, one with close cropped hair, what? No, there are plenty of physically fit women with short hair but are still feminine. You can look at female athletes with short hair and still recognize they're feminine women. A masculine woman is simply a woman who ACTS like a man in terms of thinking and how she carries herself whether she's in shape or not or whether her hair is long or not but USUALLY I've noticed that masculine women tend to where their hair short. Who is collecting data on the rate of "masculine women" applying to West Point -- and what does any of the have to do with being lesbian?! I don't know who's collecting the data or if ANYONE is. But if people are collecting data on West Point cadets based on race and sex, who's to say they aren't doing it based on sexual orientation too....especially since it currently allowed in the military. And it has nothing to do with them being a lesbian because a MASCULINE woman is different than a LESBIAN woman.....although some women are both. A lesbian women simply means a woman who finds other women sexually attractive. It's about who she wants to have sex with, it has nothing to do with how she thinks or carries herself. But AMONG Lesbians you have femmes (those who act like women) and bull daggers (those who act like men). Just like among HETEROSEXUAL women you have women who act feminine like women and those who act like Tom Boys and carry themselves like men.....but still find men attractive. You're dealing with 3 different concepts: 1. Sex 2. Gender 3. Sexual Orientation All 3 often mix and cross with eachother.

Troy No, I'm not saying that a woman is a lesbian simply because she wants to become a soldier or officer......although those professions DO tend to attract masculine type women. I'm just saying the fact that Black women military officers are being praised and promoted above other demographic groups who are just as noticeably absent in those profession is a little suspect and seems to lend support to Mr. Fuller's theory.

Their history is very interesting........ The Sicilians and Southern Italians were dark skinned with Arab and African feature from their Moorish ancestry and were heavily discriminated against back in Italy from the whiter Northern Italians. Infact, this discrimination was is one of the reasons they formed the Cosa Nostra (Mafia) centuries ago.....to protect themselves from being exploited by the white Italians who controled the government. It was mostly the dark Italians from Sicily and southern Italy who came to America because they were catching so much hell in Italy. Today they're all mixed up and most of them had so many children with non-Italians that most of them look like other White people, but you still see some Italians with dark skin and kinky hair.

Chev I always wondered why more wealthy Black people didn't paricipate in the adoption process. I'm not a millionaire or billionaire (yet) but it seems to me that if I had hundreds of millions of dollars, an intelligent wife, and a nice big home I'd have enough resources to adopt atleast ONE child from an African village. No wonder so many Africans treat AfroAmericans the way they do when they come here. Hell, if you don't care enough about your own people that White folks have to go over there and atleast PRETEND to care about them and bring them back here and give them a good life.....why shouldn't they love White folks and see THEM as more like family than you? But then again, perhaps more African families should consider intelligent family planning themselves. I know many of the commercials we see on television about starving African children with flies flying around their faces is a bunch of bullshit meant to scam money from people but there probably IS some truth about poverty, famine, and drought plaguing some communities. If you're living in a society where people are starving and too poor to afford basic necessities like food, clothing, medical care, ect.....why are you still having children? It seems to be almost a lack of common sense. It's one thing to be a victim of a drought, you only have so much control over nature. But if there's a drought and a famine where you and your family can barely survive....why would you bring MORE children into the world without resources to support them only for them to suffer and die? I wouldn't blame nature, I'd blame YOU for being so irresponsible and inconsiderate. I suppose a time has to come when we hold our own people responsible for a lot of the shit they end up in.

Troy You have a lot more experience in the arean Pioneer, so I can't weigh in with much experience. I thought we were talking about SITES....not sex, lol. I'm looking for other Black owned forums, but I have not any with much action  You may think this is ridiculous but I really believe that the decline in activity is due mostly to the collective intellectual decline of the AfroAmerican community over the past 20 years. Social media is mostly about emotion. Fights, beefing, posturing, showing off, sexual stimulation.....basic shit that any 7th or 8th grader would be interested in. Very little interest in subjects that would provide intellectual stimulation like literature or politics. And even if there IS intelligent discussion on SM, how long does it take for that dialog to devolve into insults, name, calling, and eventually threats? SM isn't even DESIGNED for intelligent dialog. Instagram Twitter and those little chat room comment sections on the side are for people with straight up ADD who can't keep their emotions stable. It's designed for people to just BLURT OUT the first thing that pops into thier heads...lol. A lot of times, Black people with IQ's over 90 end up going to White sites just to have intelligent dialog about subjects they find interesting because they can't find Black sites with enough people who share their interests.

One of my favorite Soul Food joints when I lived in Motown was STEVE'S Soul food. They have a bunch of spots today but this is the original one and the one I had been going to since I was a kid. Another one I like was Beans And Cornbread...... This is there newest restaurant they opened up in the suburbs right outside the city. These cats had....like.....15 different types of cornbread....LOL. I used to go there just for the fried catfish and corn bread alone. They call this restaurant a "bistro" and try to play to the more "buppie" type crowd of Southfield. But worse, was that the owner later soled this restaurant to Orientals and eventually, the food was terrible. I stopped going because the last time I went, I ended up getting sick and had to go to the emergency room! And, although it may not have been the food from the restaurant that made me sick, the food looked bad imo. Lol @ "orientals". I haven't heard that term in a while. I'm glad you got better but it's interesting that you mentioned getting sick because on my way home I stopped and got some Chinese food and paid for it but on my way out the door I heard one of the cook coughing and harking up real hard and spitting. If I could hear it all the way in the front lobby you KNOW it had to be hard....lol. I took that food out of the restaurant and THREW that shit away into the first trash can I saw and drove on home...lol. Some of these people who come from other cultures are nasty as hell. Now speaking of Orieintals and Soul Food....... Chinese tend to eat a LOT of pork products and I remember a few Chinese people used to come into a Soul Food restaurants in the hood (not one of those pictured) just to get pig's feet and chitterlings! And like you said I also noticed how Whole Foods seems to have a lot of what we would traditionally call "soul food" in their hot foods buffet selection. I haven't been to a Whole Foods in a minute but I remember they routinely had things like macaroni and cheese, yams, collard greens, corn bread, black eyed peas!!! This is pretty much SOUL FOOD being served in a wealthy white store. Another thing that I found interesting about Whole Foods is the fact that you can walk around drinking liquor while you shop....lol. It's a damn shame so many OTHER people have to serve the public traditional AfroAmerican food because so many of our people are so LAZY and STUPID (I'm sorry but somebody's got to say it!) that they can't even cook for themselves anymore and other people come in and take advantage of the opportunity. Girl how in the WORLD did you manage to create a thread that invoked hunger, nostalgia, happiness, and anger in me all within a 5 minute time period???

Neely Fuller Jr. talked about this years ago and apparently he NAILED it. He said that part of the reason they're (incase anyone's wondering who "they" are they're the racists) trying to cause gender confusion among AfroAmericans is to turn Black women into lesbians and use them as soldiers. I don't think anything he says sounds "ridiculous" because of how wise he is, but I must admit I thought it was a bit of a stretch UNTIL I saw this article this morning on a news site. You notice they're not hyping Latina women, Asian women, or Arab women the way they're singling out and hyping Black women and noticably leaving the Black men OUT of the picture.....literally in this case. There's a reason for this.

The Dogon of Mali were extremely accurate with their astronomical science. You know they, along with the Ibo (from where we get Hebrew) people of Nigeria actually trace their ancestry back to ancient Egypt. Infact, I believe most African "tribes" can eventually trace their origins back to ancient Egypt and Ethiopia if if we study their cultural habits and religious rites I believe we'd find bits and pieces of ancient Kemet scattered through out all of them.