Pioneer1

Troy Not exactly. There are epigenetic factors as well. I didn't say it was the ONLY thing that determines phenotype. It was the major factor. But ofcourse one's diet and environment also are factors. Perhaps I should have made that clear. As @Cynique mention there are a variety of arbitrary phenotypical characteristics that white racists have used to define different races including skull shape. So do you agree with her that hair texture and facial features are also used as racial markers? still your reasoning ignores the fact that there is no test for “race” — indeed there cannot be one for all the reasons mentioned and more! The problem isn't that A test (only one) doesn't exist....the issue is that MULTIPLE tests exist, because there are MULTIPLE systems of classification for race. It would be ideal if one "global" classification system existed for all the races to be classified under; but I'm not sure how likely that is. You ignore the science and instead cherry pick sloppy word choice to make your point. Why? What science have I ignored? I've mentioned genetics and phenotype and have given you scientific article after scientific article. Blackness is about culture, shared experience — one’s ethnicity — not the shape of one’s skull or the thickness of their lips. If Blackness is about culture..... Then does that mean that Africans who come to the United States from the continent and don't sure the AfroAmerican culture are not "Black"? And on a different side of that same coin, does that mean that Eminem or one of the Kardshians who celebrate and share aspects of AfroAmerican culture and even get their hair braided and speak slang...CAN be considered "Black"? Is this kid considered "Black" to you? Enquiring minds want to know...lol.

A few points to make........... 1. God didn't put our Ancestors in slavery, Caucasians did. We should blame who is DIRECTLY at fault. 2. Did not God give Black people two arms, two hands, and a brain just like He gave White folks? It didn't HAVE to be Black folks being enslaved by Whites.....Whites COULD HAVE been enslaved by Blacks. A lot of Black folks were enslaving EACHOTHER, but didn't want to do that to the Europeans who were creeping up on their continent. So who's fault is that? Just like today if you go to some parts of Chicago or Los Angeles....... If you're a Black man and go into certain neighborhoods you'll have 15 or 20 OTHER Black men running up on your and surrounding you throwing up gang signs and asking you what gang you're from and asking you why are you there...... .....what are you trying to do, who are you there to see, are you looking for some dope, trying to bang a girl from their neighborhood, trying to make money on THEIR block, why are you there????? But if you're a White man and go into that very same neighborhood......the streets will clear. People will run up into their houses and apartments and stare out the windows at you with the curtains drawn. Niggas ducking behinds garbage cans peering over at you half scared. Wondering if you're the police. A few brave ones will run up on you but not in aggression...but with smiles on their faces trying to sell you some dope or asking you if you want to hook up with one of the females for money. No one can really be blamed for this but us collectively. Too many of us treat eachother like the enemy but will treat Caucasians like we should treat eachother.

Lol....who is "we"? Speak for yourself, because I CAN tell when some things are true. I know it's raining outside. I see it and can stick my hand out the window and feel it. Don't make things more complicated than they need to be.

richardmurray Race isn't Bias. Applying a phenotypical label, black or white, is just an arrangement. True. It's a categorization which helps to identify and classify people. Troy you keep saying that, but it flys completely in the face of what we know about genetics. Genetics determines phenotype. Phenotype is the basis for racial classification. this would be copying the flawed tactic of the racist. Why continue this? Who said it was "flawed"? It's been working for THEM for hundreds if not thousands of years, so perhaps it's not so flawed after all. Maybe we SHOULD learn a lesson from them and take a few copies, lol. Cynique Stop using skin color as the only racial marker. Hair texture is just as influential, not to mention facial features such as noses and lips. Who said that skin color was the ONLY racial marker being used? And from your comment....I take it that you support the belief that there are multiple races?

Excuse me for rambling on a Sunday morning but I figured I'd share this minor message of hope and inspiration for those who may need a "word" today. As Troy and many of you who work with computers already know, computers are very very complex. Just when you think you know your computer and it's abilities....you continue to be educated on what you THOUGHT you knew but actually DIDN'T know and still DON'T know about it. I'm no computer tech, but every so often when I have a little free time on my hands and I'm bored, I'll go "exploring" my computer. Going through the Settings and Programs checking things out and call myself trying to figure out and find out what they do and how they operate and constantly discover new things until something else gets my attention and I break away from it. But what REALLY gets me is how I can "google" a problem and computer experts will tell me to put some words in the little windows search box and it will pull up all kinds of information on my computer and it's abilities that I couldn't find and didn't even think to look for by searching it on my own! Just the other day I had problems hooking my computer up to my flatscreen television and spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out the problem going through the settings of the computer and television until I googled the problem and it gave me the exact procedure in how to fix it....and obviously it worked! Why am I saying all of this? I learn lessons from incidents like this. One of the biggest lessons I've learned and at this point the lesson continues to be not just learned but CONFIRMED over and over again is that there is a SOLUTION to EVERY problem. Even if YOU don't now it....SOMEONE does. It's a matter or going to the right Sources. No matter what the problem is, a solution....most likely SEVERAL solutions....exist. Will you find it in time? Will you find it at all? Who knows......but rest assured, the solution DOES exist. Perhaps whether you find it or not depends on how bad you want it and how much time you're willing to spend searching for it.

Well it's about time. Now we're making progress......lol

As I was telling the good Professor in another thread, I actually believe that Reparations WILL come, and I mean in OUR lifetime. I kind of questioned it years ago, but now.....as I look at the momentum of FBAs across the U.S......I think something is going to have to happen. I'm a PanAfricanist and not given over to tribalism, but I have to give it to the ADOS and FBA movements. Their largely anti-immigrant and anti-African rhetoric seems to be a unifying factor for a lot of AfroAmericans to rally around. ....and as history has shown us time and time again, one of our greatest strengths is our UNITY. So I truly believe Reparations is coming. The question is will they give us enough, though? Proper Reparations would consist of ATLEAST over $50,000 a year in annual payments as well as free healthcare and some land and tax breaks and other benefits. Again, that's just a start. However I believe that the U.S. government will try to give us something to SATISFY us because the demand is growing and will be too great for them to resist soon. It may come like those stimulus payments came back in 2020 where we get thousands in a direct check.....maybe. So we need to have our house somewhat in order first to determine who gets what.

As a community, we should be setting the standards NOW before the big money starts coming in. I actually believe the Reparations WILL come, and I mean in OUR lifetime. The question is will they give us enough? Proper Reparations would consist of ATLEAST over $50,000 a year in annual payments as well as free healthcare and some land and tax breaks and other benefits. Again, that's just a start. However I believe that the U.S. government will try to give us something to SATISFY us because the demand is growing and will be too great for them to resist soon. It may come like those stimulus payments came back in 2020 where we get thousands in a direct check.....maybe. So we need to have our house somewhat in order first to determine who gets what.

We know. We're used to that by now....lol But thanks for your response anyway!

Yeah....and Jesse Lee Peterson is one of them, lol.

frankster Yes to race as a Social Construct I believe that the CATEGORIES of race are social constructs that vary from one society to the next, but the FACT of race is not. Race ITSELF is genetic and biological and the differences exists outside of the opinions or classifications of human beings. The Dominant class dictates where you fall in the so called Racial Categorization....The Oppressed has no choice in the matter For the most part, especially when we're talking about "official" categorizations. However the oppressed as a community CAN and SHOULD discriminate between people and have their own standards to determine who belongs with them and who doesn't regardless of what the dominant society says or tries to impose. Whether or not some one is white or black is dictated by the dominant class....look no further than Enrico Tarrio ex leader of the the far right Proud Boys. You're right. But while this is true, again...it doesn't mean the oppressed can't educate themselves and then come up with their OWN classification systems to determine race. They may not be able to enforce most of their codes, but they can certainly have them.

Chev Well we know the Etruscans were the original inhabitants of the island of Sicily and southern Italy, and they were dark skinned and quite possibly Black. But I'm still not sure about Romulus and Remus being two Black boys though, lol. I'm going to have to do a little more research on that one.

Well, I'm not certain about the entire former Soviet Union....but I don't think Russia OR China are actually serious about being Socialist period, right now. I'm not sure if I'd call someone who didn't accomplish something they didn't want to do in the first place a "failure"....lol. Dropping from 90% profit to 50% a failure? Seems to me as long as you're making ANY type of actual profit....that means your overhead is taken care of so you can stay afloat and coast along until times get better. What's been going on now for the past few decades, those who run the economic sector have been playing games with the people of the U.S. by giving out deceptive reports that lead people to think that these corporations are losing money when infact they are still raking in BILLIONS. For example.... A firm could have earned $5 billion of profit in 2020 but in 2021 earned only $1 Billion in profit. They still came out ahead with 1 BILLION DOLLARS profit to split among them holders! But let them tell it......they gotta lay off thousands of people because they took an 80% "loss" in profit/revenue in 2021.

Oh......

frankster If it's not still in Nature.....do tell where it is? It's in the inventions of human beings. It may have CAME FROM Nature but it's not in the stove, in the car, in the telephone, in the house, etc.... When man modifies Natures it is artificial Sometimes. Not all man made things are artificial. Telephones are man made, but most of them are real and not artificial. ....when other animals do the same or similar things its remains Natural. Why is that? Animals can't modify or manufacture things to the level humans can, thus what they do pretty much REMAINS in it's Natural state. A bird can take some twigs and build a nest, but it can't wire the next for electricity or plumbing....lol. Wild as in free.. Human habitations are not in Nature? Not sure about the "free" part, but some humans' habitations are....if they're wild. Because some humans are wild. Human are Not Animal? No How so? Because we're not of their kingdom. Not only are our bodies different but our Souls are different. I told it because it's true. It's not "truth"...it's theory. It's part of the "Out of Africa Theory". Which I personally don't ascribe to.

ProfD considering that Black folks aren't always blessed and highly favored, white folks and no other race of people for that matter, stand to gain much pretending to be Black. Lol....apparently Rachel Dolezal did. An if the Reparations Act is passed, you'll see a lot more White folks popping up who all of a sudden see a major gain in being "Black". IMO, the number of people pretending and passing for a different race or gender is so small that coming up with a standard would be an exercise in futility especially for Black folks. We've got bigger issues to tackle. True. However as others have said, we DO need to establish a set standard. Not this wishy washy "anybody can identify as anybody" nonsense where people can simply claim any race or sex they feel like. In the words of the late great Rev. K.C. Price: That bird won't fly. That fish won't swim. Troy because race is not solely function of the capacity to produce melanin. I’m sure sure even pioneer would are with that. Actually I believe the melanin content is A factor in determining race! It's not the only factor, but it's a major one. Yes because i went to know if they are Black in your book. Are they? Both Kamala Harris and Malcolm X are AfroAmericans. Troy, you PROMISED that you would change your position when I posted you the articles that clearly show science recognizes different races. I presented them as clear as day.

But if phenotype is irrelevant and a person who LOOKS White but has a Black ancestor can be considered Black.....as has been the case historically in the United States with so many White looking people being embraced as "passing" Black folks - Then my question is why doesn't it work in reverse? Where are the "Black looking" White folks? How are they treated in the White community? I agree. Also, a lot of the violence that goes on in the AfroAmerican community is JUSTIFIED violence. I've mentioned many times that White racists in law enforcement and the medical industry have purposefully put CRAZY and VIOLENT Black people out on the street and especially in some Black neighborhoods to destabilize them and keep chaos going. So if you're a decent Black man or woman trying to do the right thing and mind your own business....sometimes you might have to wind up going up side some "crazy nigga's" head or even killing them just to protect yourself and your family from the fool!

I wouldn't say the automobile industry "failed" in the U.S.A.....it was intentionally moved and displaced. It thrives in SOME parts of the U.S.A. as it does in some other parts of the planet. The reasons the automobile industry isn't as powerful or claims the high percentage of workers it once did in the U.S. are several: 1. As unions claimed more power in the automotive and manufacturing industry in general, the owners and management felt that it would be more profitable to move most of the plants to third world nations where the workers were desperate and willing to work for less money, didn't have union protection, and didn't have a government that would protect them from unfair labor practices. 2. As with many other jobs, when more and more Black workers started joining the labor force and getting good paying jobs with benefits and union protection....a lot of racist Whites decided to commit financial suicide by getting rid of the good paying blue-collar jobs that even most of THEM relied on to make a good living. Racism is a very powerful motivator. Most White people would rather HAPPILY live in poverty than to live in a society where both them AND Black people are doing financially well and EQUAL to them. Their main focus is being on top and staying ahead of Black people. As long as Black people collectively are doing worse....they don't mind suffering a bit themselves. 3. Most people can't afford to buy new cars like they used to. I remember as a kid, it was a pretty regular thing for an adult to buy a brand new car every 4 or 5 years. Infact, in Michigan before 1985 when the factory jobs were plentiful....it was common for most Black adults to be married with their own house and car by 30 years old! If you were 35 or 40 living in an apartment and didn't have a car.....people thought something was "wrong" with you, lol. "How old he is? And he ain't got no house? He ain't got no family yet? Is the nigga on dope or something??? What's wrong wit' em?" Boy have things changed since then. Black men are doing good to stay out of JAIL now a days, and if he manages to get his own apartment without a roomate or girlfriend helping him out with the rent.....he's the talk of the neighborhood....lol. But back when I was a kid, if you had a car over 10 years old...it was called a "hoopty" and people often made fun of you. Today, so many adults are so poor and scraping by that they not only don't have cars but most of the cars they DO have are used and of older models. They patch on them and keep them running....especially most Latinos.

For those of you who believe race is ONLY a "social construct" with no genetic basis, or those of you who believe that just because a person "looks" White phenotypically....they could actually really be "Black", I have a question..... We've seen plenty of so-called "Black" people who could obviously pass for White but the Black community accepts them and embraces them as Black despite their appearance. Where are the White people who LOOK Black or Asian but actually are White and are recognized and embraced as fellow White people? Show me the man or woman who LOOKS Black but actually is "White" and is fully accepted as such by the White community. "I know I may LOOK Black, but I'm really one of you guys. I was just passing."

Chev I believe that there should be a standard that we humans should stem from and that person in that photo, seems suspect to be defined as being Black, unless he/she/they was indeed raised in a Black Cuban culture before going to Greece. EXACTLY I've been saying this for years, infact. That there should be a STANDARD by which most of us can agree on to determine who is Black, who is White, who is Female, who is Male. That way we cut down on the deception and confusion. If there is no standard, what's to stop some blonde haired blue eyed White boy who loves Whitney Houston to run around calling himself a BLACK WOMAN and talking about he got "Black girl magic" as he runs in and out of female restrooms? There must be standards. And White folks DO have standards.....they push that "anybody can be anybody" shit on Black folks silly enough to believe it. At the end of the day they recognize that THEY are White and in charge. For those who doubt this, consider this........ A white man can run around all day long claiming to be "Black" and the Black community will often embrace him and take him in as one of our own.....but how many BLACK men who are obviously BLACK phenotypically can run around claiming to be "White" and be accepted by White folks and embraced by them as such? Why does it only seem to work in ONE DIRECTION?????? "I know I LOOK Black....but I'm really one of you guys!"

Hmmm....... Well, if you take the "White man" factor out of it.....I think African men WOULD be controlling the wealth of Africa from top to bottom. In other words, if....say....White people never existed on this planet period. What other human being would be strong enough to stop Africans from controlling ALL of the resources on their ENTIRE continent? Ofcourse, there would still probably be tribal wars among them. But just like the Whites of Europe....they could fight among eachother and STILL rule their continent and protect it from the non-White outsiders. As far as producing more weak and poor people...... If there were never any Whites on this planet to change the dynamic of economics, military, and culture of the world....including Africa....then would Africans be considered weak and poor? The comparison would be different because the STANDARDS of economics, morals, and strengths would be totally different.

Really? How so?

When I was a kid, I used to have a cat who ran around the house ripping up the furniture and toilet tissue and door posts sharpening his nails on anything he could...until we finally realized it was in a cat's nature to sharpen their nails on objects to make them stronger and healthier. So we got him a SCRATCH POST for him to sharpen his nails on and it saved our furniture.....lol. Black men NATURALLY have a higher sex drive than White man which means we NATURALLY are more fertile and will produce more children. Even the book of Exodus in the Bible talks about how the Hebrew women were more fertile than the Egyptian women.....so there is some validity to ethnic differences and fertility if you believe in the Bible. So Black men are NATURALLY more virile and sexual and will produce more children but because they are put in an ARTIFICIAL ENVIRONMENT of oppression and suppression then that natural instinct and virility has been curtailed and perverted. How? Because masculine virile men with high sex drives usually have more ENERGY and COURAGE too....so by nature they would make the best providers and protectors. In THEIR OWN environment that they control.....as we did for millions of years before White folks even existed. But because Black males have been forced to live under White rule, they have the same sexual desires and ability to make children but are prevented from engaging in behaviors that would protect and provide for the offspring they produce as well as the females they produce them with.

zeke1234 Travis King who ran into North Korea a few days ago, under duress of prosecution, is a 'brother' according to photo shown of CNN. Bad choice to run to. All I could do with that one was shake my head and say, "Naaaaawww, brutha...naw" LOL ProfD White Christians clearly have a different interpretation of their religion especially as it relates to how they treat other folks. Interestingly, white Christians will sanction murder and be the 1st in line to kill other folks too. Ofcourse they have a different interpretation of the religion....THEY invented it and know how it operates, lol. They use the scriptures and doctrine that is beneficial for THEM and their purposes and discard or ignore the rest. ....unless it comes in handed for suppressing people of color. I believe this fella and Carlee Russell, the young lady who was supposedly missing for a few days are examples of the unintelligent Black folks we have to leave behind as dead weight. LOL I'm inclined to agree with you, however I want to hear a little bit more on this Travis fellow and get a little more on his story. When I heard that some U.S. soldier "sprinted" across the DMZ...my first fleeting thought was that it was a Black man for several reasons: 1. Running across the border not thinking about being shot...as if he could out run a bullet. Typical "hood" mentality. 2. Who else besides a Black man could find being in the U.S. so harsh and unbearable that he'd decide to give life in NORTH KOREA a chance...lol

So "awareness" determines whether or not an environment is "real" or not?