Pioneer1

I agree with the earlier post that said marriage was originally designed by the rich for the rich to consolidate wealth. It was also designed to establish connections between families. frankster The Scriptures are about Righteousness. I study the scriptures for that Purpose I find that Righteousness is very Fruitful and Good. Well you talk about "before the rise of Patriarchy" but according to Genesis of the Bible Adam was meant to "rule over" Eve so that would lead one to believe that if they Bible were true...Patriarchy was established from the beginning. But obviously I don't believe that. I believe society was pretty much egalitarian across the globe before Caucasians started traveling, modifying, and influencing other cultures with their poisonous religious and cultural practices.

Three beautiful well made young sistaz. How lovely. Sorry but I'm more impressed at how attractive and well made they are than their performance....which I'm sure was wonderful as well.

Kenneth But unless we revive organized labor and forge a multiracial working class struggle then nothing will change. We're long over due for another organized labor movement, but one of the problems is most poor and working class people themselves aren't upset enough over their wages and benefits (or lack there of) to motivate them into action. Too many poor and working class people are busy smoking weed and getting deeper and deeper in debt trying to live like the upper classes they see on television or online. The idea that they could be getting shafted and actually could acquire far more wealth on their jobs if they'd only organize and demand it is a thought that rarely enters the minds of most. Just bouncing from one low wage job to the next; getting just enough money to keep the lights on, buy some marijuana, pay the child support......oh and some pizza, tacos, or ramen noodles. As far as a "multiracial working class" struggle......forget about it. Most poor White folks don't mind being poor. They KNOW they're being exploited and agree with it. It's a sacrifice they're willing to make to maintain the system they're upholding. Their only demand is that the Black and Brown POORER than them and are beneath them socio-economically.

I agree with every bit of this. I'm actually surprised to hear that last part from you about Patriarchy, especially given how strongly you defend the Bible.....lol

frankster I agree! It's no longer confusing to one who knows the TRUTH about the Bible and it's origins. Fact that I can verify. About as much as knowing about a man who built an ark to save himself and his family from a flood and ended up getting drunk and naked and cursing his grandson, helps me in this life right now....lol. Yet again, this is where Christians and have gotten it wrond because of the MIS-translations of the Hebrew language. Lucifer son of "the morning" it a totally corrupt translation of the original Hebrew which should read: Helel son of Sahar Helel was a rule in ancient Kena'an (Canaan) and likely was a follower of the Canaanite Deity "Sahar" which is why he is called SON of Sahar. He may have been Sahar's actual son or it may have been an honorary title given to him for accepting the Deity Sahar as his Benefactor. Wrong Information is just a bunch of words communicated. They could be true or false. Data on the other hand is facts and assumed facts. The assumed facts could be false as well but atleast they have been held to a higher standard than just general informal information passed along. By verifying it. I hope that question was rhetorical btw... Because if your religion has you questioning the nature of truth itself, it's already a wrap...lol. Just because a story/theory is "based on" fact, doesn't mean the story/theory ITSELF is a fact. As I said before, some of the "best" lies are based on facts and truths. That's what makes them so effective. And to the naive, inexperiened, and down right foolish...all things are legitimate. Why? Because they don't know any better. What does this have to do with Michael and Gabriel NOT being angels that I pointed out to you in the Old Testament? Did that bit of information I pointed out to you mean ANYTHING to you or did you just brush past it looking for another comeback to get me with? Do you actually SEEK TRUTH or are you just looking to defend your beliefs? You're assuming these things actually took place. I don't. The fact that you would even entertain continuing to believe in a book that "may" have lied or used some form of deception allegedly for some "greater good" is a matter of concern. I ask you again.... Do you really want to know the TRUTH or are you just concerned with defending your beliefs from what you consider to be an attack?

Here we go again with the "increase the taxes" bullshit. This nation doesn't need to increase taxes on ANYBODY....individual or corporate. I know a lot of corporations and rich people are cheating the system but they shouldn't have to. The tax codes should be FAIR and across the board so people aren't motivated to cheat and scam. On top of that and more importantly.... The U.S. Constitution gives the United States Congress the right to print as much money as it needs and assign value to it. They can literally print money out of thin air and assign as much value to it as they want to. Which they DO....when they want to spend money on wars or foreign Aid like to the Ukrain. Any talk about raising taxes and sacrificing when they give hundreds of billions of dollars to the Ukrain or when they were spending trillions to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan??? If they didn't need to raise taxes to fund THAT....why did they need to raise them to fund this???

The same sista running around talking about she wouldn't share HER husband with another woman is often found trying to share ANOTHER WOMAN'S HUSBAND behind her back! I know some women who ONLY mess around with married men. That's part of that immature selfish mindset so many of our people have both male and female.

frankster Theories ARE speculation based on evidence. But atleast you acknowledge that your explanation may not be true. CAN be. "Can" is the key word in your statement. Doesn't mean obvious always or even usually is. Most of the time "obvious" is just what it appears to be....as it is, lol. Ofcourse there is some good in it and some truth in it. I still love reading the book of Proverbs and as I say I love to read the Bible in it's Hebrew form; but I still recognize it for that it is -a man made book and not Holy or Divine or perfect because it still contains errors and falsehood. Even if you don't acknowledge that the ORIGINAL Bible contained errors and falsehood....surely you have to admit the ENGLISH TRANSLATION of it does! No sense in even arguing with someone over scriptures read in the English version. Yeah...and another reason is because those scriptures are erroneous and plain wrong because they were written by men trying to deceive you. Like I said, the OLD TESTAMENT doesn't refer to Michael or Gabriel as "angels". Michael is referred to as a "Sar" in the Hebrew script which is a type of ruler or governor but it's translated in English as "prince". Angels are called "Malak" in the Hebrew script. Ofcourse he wasn't the founder of Judaism. He didn't write the books of the Old Testament either, although they are called the "books of Moses". How could he have written them and they actually REFER TO HIM AND HIS DEATH???? In Deuteronomy 34 we read: " 10.Since that time, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face— 11.no prophet who did all the signs and wonders that the LORD sent Moses to do in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh and to all his officials and all his land," What did he do, record his own death in the book before dying? And "since that time" is obviously talking about the PAST which means that book was written at a MUCH LATER DATE. Come on. This thing was put together much later by some group with an agenda. Much of Judaism is based on a book called the TALMUD and the Talmud is divided in two parts: Babylonian and Palestinian. Moses wasn't around to influence either part of the Talmud. Judaism INCORPORATES some of the teachings of Moses and it's far different from what Moses taught. Infact, much of the Pentateuch or "Books of Moses" were put together in Babylon as well as I just alluded to earlier and that's where they got much of their stories. You ask what religion they were practicing prior to Babylonian Capitivity? I'm not sure but I have two answers: Answer #1 According to the Bible they followed the teachings of Moses. I'm not sure it was given an actual name, but according to the Bible they did follow the teachings of Moses and the law right up to their captivity. I don't believe this by the way...but you do so I offer it as an explanation. Answer #2 As I said, I don't believe the captivity ever took place. I believe Jews actually CAME FROM Babylon. I believe...based on personal research from various historians....that a group of PERSIANS IN BABYLON took some of the teachings of Zoroasterism and mixed it with some of the teachings of Babylonian religions and came up with a NEW religion called Judaism and proceeded to write and literally MAKE UP their own past to justify why they went to Palestine to build a temple. I can back that up with a few sources btw..... As I said before, I don't believe any of this actually happened. I believe they made it up. The ancient Egyptians and Babylonians in which those stories were based in show no records of Jews being held captive in those regions. The people of those areas TODAY believe in it simply because most of them are Muslim, Christian, and Jewish so it's part of their religious scripture to believe in it. But as far as ancient writings and hieroglyphs....no record. Could it have happened? Yes. But I simply don't believe it and neither do most scholars.

frankster I never said ALL of the Bible was allegory. It contains many stories, some are allegorical, some are lies, some are truth. My thing is....since we don't have a clear legend or key to understanding CLEARLY which is which....why place our faith in such a confusing book? But to answer your question........... Well first of all let's back up and get an understanding when we're talking about HISTORY. I criticize the Bible a lot but I'm actually critical to a certain extent of MOST historical claims whether they be religious or non-religious. Why? Because I've learned not to put too much trust in things that I DIDN'T DOCUMENT MYSELF by my own observation or the observation of S/someone trust. New information about certain things in history are constantly coming out every day. Some of it is true, some of it is false, and some of it we just have no clue as to it's validity one way or the other. Because of this I can't put too much faith in anything written by the hands of men. Don't get me wrong..... I'm not saying I don't believe ANY history or believe ALL of history, but it's more like I don't accept it 100% or reject it 100% if you understand what I'm saying. Some things I believe more than other based on evidence and the preponderance of it, but my mind is open for new evidence and proof also. Now if you understand my position, having said that...... Based on various sources I believe a ruler of ancient Canaan named Helel was real. Not only does the Hebrew Bible speak of him but other sources do. He's not the only ruler there were others mentioned in the Bible as well as other sources. Lucifer is a TITLE. A Roman title. Did it belong to one particular being or did several beings wear that title? I have no idea. But Lucifer simply means "light bearer". It is my SPECULATION that the Roman "Lucifer" is related to the Greek "Prometheus" who allegedly took fire/knowledge (light) to mankind against the will of the "gods" and was punished. This too was an allegory and the Romans probably got it from the Greeks. And that's your right to do so if you wish. As for me, if you want ME to accept a book as being of God and Divine then it needs to be 100% truth with absolutely NO falsehood in it. It can obviously contain things that I don't understand, but if I see BLATANT falsehood....it's a wrap. I'll regulate it to the shelf with the other fictional books. I've given you several falsehood in the Bible in the form of contradictions but you didn't accept them as false and tried to rationalize them. No doubt if I give you several or even 100 more (and I can) you'd do the same thing. Your mind is made up to accept the Bible right now. At this point we're just having a nice dialog, lol. You're saying the "The Bible" is a small fraction of the Scriptures as if you're speaking of the entire book. Are you saying that there is a larger book somewhere in which the entire Bible is found "inside" other scriptures in which it was taken from? I agree. Often times it is because you're closer to the truth (if there is any in that Source) and closer to the true intention of the Author and the message They were conveying. I agree that MUCH of the Old and New Testaments were taken from older sources and stories circulating around the Middle East at that time and compiled into a new book we now call "The Bible. Much of the Old Testament was compiled in Babylon. Much of the New Testament was compiled in Rome. However I won't call it "old knowledge" or knowlege period. It's INFORMATION....stories....that could be true OR false. In order for it to be "knowledge" it first has to be TRUE.

-Glad to be a catalyst for "Black Unity" in this thread. Apparently I've brought everybody together in agreement.

PREACH!!!!! We actually need to play by OUR OWN rules instead of theirs. In some ways things were better for our people in the 50s and 60s than they are today. Atleast we all could CLEARLY see who the enemy is and had more unity since most of us were in the same boat.

Well.....lol A lot of AfroAmerican women swear up and down that THEY would never be sister-wives and share a husband so......

ProfD Yeah..............I guess?

ProfD This is why I said a lot of our people are tired of waiting and figure their best bet it to just sell out and join the other team for whatever it's worth, rather than continue to wait. Atleast when it comes to serving White folks and kissing up to them, you usually get SOMETHING...lol. It may not be everything you asked for. It may be everything you asked for ALONG WITH a whole lot of shit you DIDN'T ask for and didn't expect. But usually you'll get SOME goodies if you're a flunky for the White folks. What do you get fighting for and being loyal to most Black folks? ....besides a hard time? ....or chased down the street if the WRONG nigga sees you and think you got something on you. In MY past experiences I've gotten a LOT of benefits for fighting racism and fighting on behalf of Black people....but most of those benefits I got didn't COME FROM Black people. They came from The Divine. In many cases the Black folks I was fighting for directly didn't give me shit. But I still fought for them knowing this. But I can't expect all Black people to do this. Fighting for my people is a passion of mine and has been since I was a child and my Faith has been strengthened a lot from past experiences. They help push me forward and keep me going. It's a Life Purpose so I can't stop doing it. However from that sister or brother who isn't cut like that and looks at things from not just a logical and selfish point of view but even an emotional point of view....I can see how simply getting with the White folks and trying their best to forget about their own would be a more attractive option.

@Chevdove Ok........

Well.... I wasn't expecting THAT response. @Chevdove I respectfully ask you, was all of that really necessary?

I don't know what the brother's (Marty) true aim is in dropping this thread and asking us to participate in his battle, however..... This subject is a little dear to me because both on jobs and in local politics I've often found myself being the only person initially fighting back against racism in the area. I notice a problem. And it seems like I'm usually the FIRST one to notice the problem! Whether it's on a job or in a city, you have Negroes who've been there for YEARS grinning and talking trash with toothpicks in their mouths and gold chains on their necks totally oblivious to the blatantly racist situation going on around them that I IMMEDIATELY pick up on and have a problem with. I ask some of these fools do they see what I'm seeing and they deny it....until they're a victim of it either by getting fired, put in jail, or humiliated by a White "superior". Then all of a sudden they notice a problem and want to cry racism and slob at the mouth looking for help. "Why dey do me like dat??? Man...dat's some racist bullshit!" It's all good as long as THEY aren't a victim of racism personally. Fuck what some other Black person is going through....it's all about them and what THEY experience. If THEY didn't go through it....it can't be true. Usually there are a few riders with me or I'll be with them if they were the first to notice something and speak out, but often times you're by yourself trying to weigh your options. Fighting racism alone is one thing. Fighting racism alone with a bunch of niggas standing around with their eyes bucked looking at you and wondering what "your" problem is instead of helping you is another level though. "What's wrong with THAT nigga?" "Why he in the office yelling and pointing his fingers embarassing us????" "Yeah but he right though....some racist shit be happening around here" "Man, he need to go on somewhere and just find another job because...." "Man, I need this job and he go fuck it up for everybody with all that race shit!" It feels so good when you finally do win and get your trophy but the road along the way......shit.

ProfD I wouldn't consider it a COMPLETE waste of time and energy to force yourself into positions of power and wealth inside White owned establishments from an INDIVIDUAL perspective. Now as a community ofcourse, our time would be much better spent uniting like minds and building our own; however as I'm reminded constantly....although this is highly possible and will be done some day...it's still wishful and hopeful thinking. So as an INDIVIDUAL you do what you have to do or want to do to get what you want in this life while you're living. If I'm a Black man who wants to live the "good life" of corporate America enjoying the wealth and all of the other amenities that come with wealth and high positions, it would benefit me more to just go ahead and fight (or beg if necessary) my way into the ranks of the elite than wait on niggas to get it together, lol. "I refuse to sell out! I'm still waiting on niggas to unite and build something." I suspect that's why the sell-out rate is so high. Some of our people are tired of waiting on niggas to get it together and unite and build their own collectively and see their best bet is to just grin up in them White folks faces and get as much as they can WHILE they can, lol.

What????? Those statistics are MORE than amazing, they're UNBELIEVABLE....literally. Biden's been in office for about a year and a half now and you're telling me that rape has TRIPLED in the Atlanta area in that small amount of time? Man, who put that info out? You provided a link but it was to Walker's campaign, not some reputable source for that stat. If I were to look at this in context, it sounds like something the Walker Campaign put out to scare people into voting for him and if they have no official statistics to verify it then it's really an insult to the intelligence of the people....especially Black people as that's who it's geared towards....of the Atlanta area to think that you can just say that without it being examined or challenged.

frankster Lucifer was a made-up term that was put in the English translation to deceive the readers. If you read the original Hebrew the name used was "Helel" and it was the name of a king or ruler of a region of ancient Canaan. Early Christians purposely changed and mis-interpreted the name (like they did a lot of the Bible) into this "Lucifer" business and then proceeded to make an entire persona surrounding him when it was really an ancient king. Ok, thank you for FINALLY answering the question...lol There's no such thing as "false to you" or "truth to me". Either something is TRUE or it's FALSE. If you don't know, then say you don't know or you're not sure but there is no "true to me". If it's proven to be false....it's false. You can ACCEPT falsehood and BELIEVE IN falsehood if you like, but that's not going to change falsehood to truth. Your scriptures say that God is not the author of confusion. Should I take that as He didn't make confusion? Or does it have another meaning? Those aren't the Bible. Those are scriptures that contain some of the same stories the Bible contains, but they aren't the Bible. "Source material" isn't the same as the book itself. YOU are made up of atoms and molecules. They are your "source material"...but you aren't as old as atoms and molecules itself. As I said earlier, the Bible is COMPILED of earlier scripture that had been circulating around the Middle East for centuries. That's old knowledge. So basically you SPECULATED that this was the reason those two different scriptures gave different accounts on who Joseph's father really was. The most obvious answer is that it's a contradiction, but you don't want to accept or believe that so your mind forces you to come up with a way to explain it so that it makes sense to you. This is what I mean when people accept the Bible as some "Divine" book. Once you go down that road you have to accept it at 100%. Even in the face of an obvious contradiction you cannot accept it as such but must wait and hope for a "deeper understanding" of it. Nor sure, but at any rate...the Old Testament doesn't call Michael or Gabriel "angels". The only time you read of them having this title is in the New Testament. Judaism wasn't started in Egypt, it was started in Babylon...the same place the Jews came from. It may contain CERTAIN RITUALS and SCRIPTS that were also found in ancient Egypt (and there's a good reason for that) but Judaism itself wasn't founded in Egypt or Palestine. Judaism didn't come from Moses by the way..... What Moses taught wasn't Judaism and even when you read the Old Testament you don't find the term "Judaism" in it. It came from Babylon and is a mixture of some of Moses' teachings with some Babylonian beliefs and some Persian/Zoroastrian teachings. Isn't it funny how these "inspired" religions and scriptures seem to grow and expand as the culture and sophistication of humans grow and expands in the region????

I have mixed feelings about situations like these..... On the one hand I support Elijah Muhammad's advice for us to do for self and establish our own businesses and employ ourselves so we don't have to deal with the racism and other forms of discrimination as well as the THEIVERY that goes on in many White corporations where a Black man may come up with a great idea but White people will PRETEND to dismiss it only to steal it and use it later on.....we were told not to work for them but to work for ourselves. However on the other hand, as long as we're living in the United States in a multi-racial society we need to figure out a way to not only get along with other races but force them to recognize and respect our contribution and ability to manage and progress the work place. I don't like the idea of Asians and Latinos being able to just dance right into this nation and into jobs that AFRO-AMERICANS had to fight to open up! Our ForeFathers and ForeMothers fought for those jobs and the opportunity to get them! So WE should be the ones who get first dibs at those jobs, not Latinos, Arabs, Asians, and other immigrants. I think the brother should fight it all the way and even take them to court if he has to because those jobs don't "belong" to the managers. They belong either to the owners or the shareholders....that's who literally OWNS the company. So they don't have a moral or legal right to sit up and deny people opportunities that they didn't give themselves.

ProfD Then you'll have to blame Prince and Michael Jackson too....lol. They...and if you really want to go back in time Switch (with the DeBarges).... started Black America on the road of effeminizing men with their high pitched singing and hair straightening personas.

Chev Please put a timeline to what you are talking about. What do you mean a "timeline"? Few dates are given in history because different cultures use different calendars and modes of calculating time. However the real Moses of history went into the Caucasus to civilize the savages about 4000 years ago. Your version of 'Moses' is not Biblical. Correct. Because the Bible isn't a factual or historically correct book. I'm talking about the HISTORIC Moses/Muse, not the Biblical one. The Exodus occurred after 400+ years of 'hard bondage', and not about mountain people, savage people eating raw meat up in the mountains. Well, most of the evidence points to the "exodus" of the Bible NEVER having occurred period. I know you speak about these mountain people Pioneer but you know, I do not refer to that. When you talk about CAUCASIANS in general at that time, you're talking about "mountain people".

Chev Violence is is so high and out of control in the United States today that they have to constantly change and re-arrange the definitions to keep up with what's happening in the streets and make this nation NOT look as barbaric as it really is. Michael Montvert because the white cops simply fear blacks more than they fear whites. Is it because they really "fear" Blacks or is it a natural and innate hatred that they sometimes can't control? Whites in this nation have been around Blacks long enough, many of them pretty much know Black people and how much of a threat we may or may not pose to them. So I don't completely buy that they were in fear for their lives. I think it's a convenient excuse many of them use so as to not look so cold blooded. Now this is not an "institutionalized" phenomenon in the sense that there is some training to this effect, or rules governing it, but it is a consistent pattern. and it is institutionalized in the sense that much in our culture TEACHES people that blacks are: emotional, irrational, angry, volatile, violent. amoral, etc. his is a reversal of the usual reaction by whites, apparently, who "instinctively" (due to cultural training/brainwash, really) fear black people. You're right and that's PART of it. But some of it is just natural and innate. I agree with your initial assessment of it being "instinct" because I believe most Whites have an innate hatred for and sense of superiority over Black people that they have to actually work to overcome. Instead of being taught TO hate...I think most Whites have to be taught NOT to hate.

PREACH! I've been saying this for decades. The Democrat Party is a FAKE opposition party or "controlled" opposition is what they really are. Republican light. We need a real Progressive in office like one of my favorite Presidents Franklin Delano Roosevelt.